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This is why I hate online tournaments. They never tell who the better team is. Liquid has some decent players but I feel they wouldn't have gotten as far as they did if it was at a lan.
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On March 19 2012 15:58 Ventor wrote:
This is why I hate online tournaments. They never tell who the better team is. Liquid has some decent players but I feel they wouldn't have gotten as far as they did if it was at a lan.
Online tournaments show the full potential of players because they don't have as much nerve issues. You will always see better play online than LAN for most players.
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On March 19 2012 15:58 Ventor wrote:
This is why I hate online tournaments. They never tell who the better team is. Liquid has some decent players but I feel they wouldn't have gotten as far as they did if it was at a lan.
Hmm, what do you mean? Liquid in relation to what/who? Liquid has some pretty sick "LAN"-wins under their belt, Im fairly sure they have the most titles overall, for any foreign team (Maybe tied with EG, I dont think so, though)
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On March 19 2012 16:17 hugedong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 15:58 Ventor wrote:
This is why I hate online tournaments. They never tell who the better team is. Liquid has some decent players but I feel they wouldn't have gotten as far as they did if it was at a lan. Online tournaments show the full potential of players because they don't have as much nerve issues. You will always see better play online than LAN for most players. and that is why online doesnt show as much skill as offline. nerves is part of the game. if you choke you aint good enough.
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too bad for mouz  but they continue to impress me in teamleagues. congratz TL 
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thorzain BMed? what did he say?
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On March 19 2012 14:09 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 14:02 mcc wrote:On March 19 2012 13:57 SCST wrote:On March 19 2012 13:53 mcc wrote:On March 19 2012 13:50 SCST wrote:On March 19 2012 13:45 NASL.tv wrote:Hello! Due to the potential drama that this Grand Finals match may stir up in the community. I feel it is necessary to make a statement regarding the match so that there will be no misunderstanding of the situation. First, I will outline some basic information about the NASTL playoff week. This will hopefully help explain the decision to play the ace match Wednesday morning and that, given the unfortunate circumstances for both teams, was the fairest possible solution. This problem could have been resolved if both teams had chosen a different player for the ace match - however, neither team was willing to accommodate the other. Therefore, since both were set on using HerO and ThorZaiN, we were left with setting a time that was not ideal for either party. General Background Information- We flew in iNcontroL for the week to cast the finals
- The studio closed down Wednesday afternoon to install and set up new equipment to get ready for season 3
- Therefore, we had a hard deadline of wednesday morning, which teams were notified well in advance
- NASTL rules have server changes in order to promote fairness, games are played on all servers: NA, EU, and KR
Info About the match- Liquid selected HerO as their ace knowing it would be late for him in korea
- Mouz selected ThorZaiN as their ace despite the fact that he had other obligations (showmatch vs sheth at the time)
- Because of this, Mouz was unable to play the ace when the score was tied 2-2 (Thorzain was playing other games)
- Due to delays it was unable to be played on tuesday: Liquid rightly asked to push it back since it was pushing 4am in Korea and the match had yet started. Wednesday morning was the last time available to play
- A four hour time window was given, Mouz selected 11am EST to play
- I contacted the Redbull LAN staff and they cleared time and space for him to play this match
- NASTL rules would have given Liquid server advantage in the ace, but to be more fair, both teams agreed to do server swap in between each game, and the starting server was chosen by coin flip (which Liquid won)
- We understand the situation was far from ideal for both parties (thorzain had to play from the red bull tournament, hero had to play at 3am) - but this was literally the last time available to play the match
- We believe that this was the best and most fair solution (playing wednesday morning, server changing, coin flip to decide start map) given the circumstances
We never want to see the ace match of a final played in an un-ideal situation for either player, but we were unfortunately working within very defined time slots in order to play. Thank you all for understanding, and apologies to both Mouz and Liquid for the ordeal. - Xeris So in other words this entire setup was actually more to accomodate Mouz than Liquid, due to Thorzain playing other matches when he was suppose to be available for the ace match. The server was coin-flip for the first match and then alternated each game. NASTL was more than fair, and Liquid had NOTHING to do with it. Thorzain was just being very bad manner . . . he really should apologize. For what, for venting ? You people really love drama and want apologies for everything. If that was very BM I am a pope. Yes, for venting. Professionals don't need to vent. Just say: "gg" and leave. By being a bitch at the end of a game you disrespect your opponent and make them (and their fans) focus on your whining rather than a well-deserved victory. Well maybe the fans should apologize instead for focusing on the venting instead on the well-deserved victory. You demanding apologies for venting is having entitlement complex the size of elephant. No one demanded anything. I think you may need to carefully evaluate the meaning of the word: "should". In addition, I personally feel for Thorzain's position. With the entire team riding on his games, which he lost decisively, he no doubt was crushed emotionally. However, nothing excuses bad or unprofessional behavior, and there is nothing wrong with pointing it out here on the forum. I'm amazed that even two people on here are rushing to the defense of rudeness as if people are trying to crucify Thorzain. It's very simple: he disrespected his opponent after the game ended, most people will forgive him. He should apologize to Hero and TL in some way - whether he actually does this or not is up to him.
[my bolding]
Really? Nothing excuses that behavior? Nothing?
In my world legitimate excuses obviously does excuse that behavior.
In what world doesn't it?
If I hit my thumb with a hammer I will curse. I may say sorry to people around who were there to hear it but I still have a very legitimate excuse.
Sometimes "least said soonest mended" holds. That applies here, so I will end here.
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On March 19 2012 15:58 Ventor wrote:
This is why I hate online tournaments. They never tell who the better team is. Liquid has some decent players but I feel they wouldn't have gotten as far as they did if it was at a lan.
Tell me what team would have been there then?
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On March 19 2012 16:43 StatorFlux wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 14:09 SCST wrote:On March 19 2012 14:02 mcc wrote:On March 19 2012 13:57 SCST wrote:On March 19 2012 13:53 mcc wrote:On March 19 2012 13:50 SCST wrote:On March 19 2012 13:45 NASL.tv wrote:Hello! Due to the potential drama that this Grand Finals match may stir up in the community. I feel it is necessary to make a statement regarding the match so that there will be no misunderstanding of the situation. First, I will outline some basic information about the NASTL playoff week. This will hopefully help explain the decision to play the ace match Wednesday morning and that, given the unfortunate circumstances for both teams, was the fairest possible solution. This problem could have been resolved if both teams had chosen a different player for the ace match - however, neither team was willing to accommodate the other. Therefore, since both were set on using HerO and ThorZaiN, we were left with setting a time that was not ideal for either party. General Background Information- We flew in iNcontroL for the week to cast the finals
- The studio closed down Wednesday afternoon to install and set up new equipment to get ready for season 3
- Therefore, we had a hard deadline of wednesday morning, which teams were notified well in advance
- NASTL rules have server changes in order to promote fairness, games are played on all servers: NA, EU, and KR
Info About the match- Liquid selected HerO as their ace knowing it would be late for him in korea
- Mouz selected ThorZaiN as their ace despite the fact that he had other obligations (showmatch vs sheth at the time)
- Because of this, Mouz was unable to play the ace when the score was tied 2-2 (Thorzain was playing other games)
- Due to delays it was unable to be played on tuesday: Liquid rightly asked to push it back since it was pushing 4am in Korea and the match had yet started. Wednesday morning was the last time available to play
- A four hour time window was given, Mouz selected 11am EST to play
- I contacted the Redbull LAN staff and they cleared time and space for him to play this match
- NASTL rules would have given Liquid server advantage in the ace, but to be more fair, both teams agreed to do server swap in between each game, and the starting server was chosen by coin flip (which Liquid won)
- We understand the situation was far from ideal for both parties (thorzain had to play from the red bull tournament, hero had to play at 3am) - but this was literally the last time available to play the match
- We believe that this was the best and most fair solution (playing wednesday morning, server changing, coin flip to decide start map) given the circumstances
We never want to see the ace match of a final played in an un-ideal situation for either player, but we were unfortunately working within very defined time slots in order to play. Thank you all for understanding, and apologies to both Mouz and Liquid for the ordeal. - Xeris So in other words this entire setup was actually more to accomodate Mouz than Liquid, due to Thorzain playing other matches when he was suppose to be available for the ace match. The server was coin-flip for the first match and then alternated each game. NASTL was more than fair, and Liquid had NOTHING to do with it. Thorzain was just being very bad manner . . . he really should apologize. For what, for venting ? You people really love drama and want apologies for everything. If that was very BM I am a pope. Yes, for venting. Professionals don't need to vent. Just say: "gg" and leave. By being a bitch at the end of a game you disrespect your opponent and make them (and their fans) focus on your whining rather than a well-deserved victory. Well maybe the fans should apologize instead for focusing on the venting instead on the well-deserved victory. You demanding apologies for venting is having entitlement complex the size of elephant. No one demanded anything. I think you may need to carefully evaluate the meaning of the word: "should". In addition, I personally feel for Thorzain's position. With the entire team riding on his games, which he lost decisively, he no doubt was crushed emotionally. However, nothing excuses bad or unprofessional behavior, and there is nothing wrong with pointing it out here on the forum. I'm amazed that even two people on here are rushing to the defense of rudeness as if people are trying to crucify Thorzain. It's very simple: he disrespected his opponent after the game ended, most people will forgive him. He should apologize to Hero and TL in some way - whether he actually does this or not is up to him. [my bolding] Really? Nothing excuses that behavior? Nothing? In my world legitimate excuses obviously does excuse that behavior. In what world doesn't it? If I hit my thumb with a hammer I will curse. I may say sorry to people around who were there to hear it but I still have a very legitimate excuse. Sometimes "least said soonest mended" holds. That applies here, so I will end here.
An argument against that is that you lack the self control to not curse when you hit your thumb.
(playing devil's advocate).
Likewise people would say that these slips (for anyone, not just Thorzain) illustrate one's "true character"
I don't know Thorzain, I don't really follow him much. If this is really his only slipup, then I don't necessarily agree with that above statement. Unlike our crappy politicians that do it all the time, a few slips, to me, is meaningless.
It's hard to judge someone without meeting them in person. In the end.. just move on.
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On March 19 2012 16:32 Elem wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 16:17 hugedong wrote:On March 19 2012 15:58 Ventor wrote:
This is why I hate online tournaments. They never tell who the better team is. Liquid has some decent players but I feel they wouldn't have gotten as far as they did if it was at a lan. Online tournaments show the full potential of players because they don't have as much nerve issues. You will always see better play online than LAN for most players. and that is why online doesnt show as much skill as offline. nerves is part of the game. if you choke you aint good enough.
Nerves have nothing to do with skill. Would you rather watch people play to the absolute best of their ability, or think "hey I wonder how nervous he is today"?
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If you actually look at thorzains statement he did not BM Hero, Liquid, or NASL at all. For sure he was frustrated. TL basically got a free win to the championship because he got shafted by server chioce. Sure it was in the rules but its still something to get upset about. If anyone loses respect for thorzain they are truly an idiot. If you put yourself in his shoes playing the game with tons of pressure on you, only to not even be able to control your army because it is lagging to badly. Would you not be pissed too?
Online tourneys mean nothing anyways. It's the Lans that count imo. To people saying that online has the most skill showing that is true. But lets compare say soccer(football) with this scenario. You can do your best moves in your backyard game with no outsiders there watching you and no fans there ready to ridicule your every error. But get in the arena (Lans) and watch how not only the physical skill is tested but the mental side is also pushed. People cheering when you are on the big stage and the silence and sometimes booing of an error on screen where everyone is watching you. And the players know if they mess up that they wont hear the end of it .
As for Thorzain he is a total nerd baller and I look forward to seeing him in tournaments and cheering him on. Would love to see a Hero Thorzain rematch soon somewhere without the server bullcrap.
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Online tournaments show the full potential of players because they don't have as much nerve issues. You will always see better play online than LAN for most players.
If you want to be considered a top player, you HAVE to perform at LANs. Being able to play well under pressure IS a skill itself. It would be saying that the best NBA player is actually a bench warmer on some team. Just that he cannot perform in game. Does that mean we won't get to see the full potential of players in NBA games and we should just go watch practice if we want to see the 'best' plays?
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Congrats to Liquid
HerO fighting
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Congrats to TL! Well deserved.
Got to admit i was rooting a little bit more for mouz, but they did an awsome run through this hole tournament and brought the final to the ace match.
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playing from US -> KOREA for the first time (or one of the first times) must've been so laggy for ThorZaIN... also failing to get the championship for his team and going down like that is super frustrating..
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Grats Liquid, although the situation takes some of the gloss of this victory but things like this always happen when players are in different regions. NASL should have the team finals at the same time as the individual finals at the LAN event.
Or maybe players should know when they are playing in important matches and prepare accordingly. Whether that means the tournament gives more accurate information or team management do their jobs properly who knows.
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On March 19 2012 18:16 Full.tilt wrote:Or maybe players should know when they are playing in important matches and prepare accordingly. Whether that means the tournament gives more accurate information or team management do their jobs properly who knows.
If you would read the statement from Xeris, then you would know.
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it's not the server that's the bad thing it's that he had no chance to warm up and played with jet lag
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EPT
