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jjakji's TvT seems to be getting better...
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No extended series in the GSL thank god.
Explain that MLG!
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So nice to have a BO6 between Jjakji and Parting!! GoGo
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On February 08 2012 20:32 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 20:29 ChaosTerran wrote:On February 08 2012 20:25 WigglingSquid wrote:On February 08 2012 20:21 ChaosTerran wrote:On February 08 2012 20:12 WigglingSquid wrote:Poor GanZi. Just dying to every small early or mid-game timing in this group... On February 08 2012 20:12 mvtaylor wrote:On February 08 2012 20:09 WigglingSquid wrote:On February 08 2012 20:02 Xarles wrote:On February 08 2012 19:45 Mr_Wo_Ot wrote:On February 08 2012 19:39 MorroW wrote:
no pro players want to give feedback or post in these forums because not its not always what you want to hear. and then you all come bashing
daybreak and metropolis are too long distances to punish something like this
you cant give the 15cc argument because 1rax expo gives a weaker followup than 15cc. thats why people go 15cc rofl, because the econ kicks in more quickly. then you get you extra raxes and geysers more quickly. you dont understand basic rts or tvp build.
toss scouts 15cc, grabs 2 nexuses, then goes onwards to not barely be able to defend, nope, he goes on to almost go kill protoss that was constantly building units on 2bases
you guys should realize me being in this game 12 hours a day for over a year knowing and talking to almost all pros plus practicing these gsl maps regularly, dont you think i should know the timings and find the flaws better than you?
its silly some tosses just come at me here just because they are defending their race
if you want feedback and pros opinions, the good and bad comes in a pack. im not gonna sit here and obliviously say "great timing on that 2base protoss" every time we watch gsl. please realize they can play macro oriented, they dont have to play like this. but they almost play like this exclusively because its more easy and they are more successful with it. Remember the people who are responding to you are the 2% of the people reading and the other 98% enjoy reading your posts. So please dont let the haters get to you! Morrow hwaiting! Agreed. Not to mention that he gives proper reasoning towards his opinions as opposed to someone like IdrA. I'll take that over an attention seeking no-name whiner any day. The problem is that pros play their game twelve hours a day, but communicate very little about it with people who are not on their par. They walk in a forum, scribble two sentences without any reasoning or explanation whatsoever and complain when users disrespect their opinion, expecting everyone to merely bow to their experience out of sheer faith. I respect their opinion, and I agree that the TL forums can be a dangerous place for their peace of mind, but even if they don't feel like taking their time to explain they could avoid bashing just by being more subtle with their balance whine. (Nothing exotic. Just add "in the current metagame" to every complaint and no one will be able to tell it off as easily.) I think MorroW very obviously put forward his case as to why a build shouldn't allow you to get ahead both economically and in army. Yes, but he did so after his first post; anyway, I was not talking about MorroW specifically, but of the pros' general attitude. I will take their opinion as almost granted in most cases, but if they go to the length of being arrogant I will be much less adamant about defending them. No he didn't. What the hell man. he explained perfectly well why this strat is imabalanced. Just because you can't grasp this simple concept doesn't mean that he didn't explain it, it just means that you simply don't understand what he's talking about. which is a problem on your end not his. If you don't understand the game, then don't discuss it. sick of noobs complaining about people who "dont explain it well enough" this isn't pre-school dude, if you dont understand it you simply dont know enough about SC2 or RTS games in general. I am not an idiot. I might have missed his true first post, or you might have. Please refrain from jumping on the offense before considering other options. And here it is. You are quite wrong, because this does not explain absolutely anything: just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers
if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say
you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him.
well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute.
anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it Yes, it does? You can take 3 base get an economic advantage and kill the terran at the same time without being "all-in" even if he has bunkers up pretty much is imbalanced. Just like Morrow said. How can you possibly argue that this is balanced? this goes against the very nature of rts games. Terran can do the exact same thing to protoss and zerg lmao. Reactor hellion into third base gives terran a third base before zerg, and quick third command center is also becoming very popular for terrans versus protoss. There was a game, maybe with Puzzle, where super quick third CC held off a four gate.
yes, but if the toss goes for 3 nexus and you go for 3cc, you will be dead very soon.
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hopefully Jjakji won't 15CC against Parting????? I don't even know lol.
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Well you wanted a BoN with N > 3, at least now you get two Bo3's.
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On February 08 2012 20:32 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 20:31 Hassybaby wrote:On February 08 2012 20:30 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 20:30 zhurai wrote:On February 08 2012 20:29 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 20:27 zhurai wrote:On February 08 2012 20:26 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 20:24 Hassybaby wrote:On February 08 2012 20:23 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 20:20 Hassybaby wrote:
[quote]
But that would mean one of the secret hops would basically be in Jjakji's base, and the other sort of where the north gas geyser is on the base north of Ganzi's main
How is that fair? Jjakji so has this since he can buy himself a Reaver in his base! JJakji won the first game giving him the advantage clearly. He had the Dazzle-medivac on his side. Damn that shallow grave Medivacs are more like nature's attendance than dazzle's heal. More over time than instant also they don't kill everything at the same time oh thanks for the idea ulti = medivac heal, maxed hp to you and other heroes around you... or drop/blink oO LOL Stalkers are anti mages! Hahaha except they are ranged, and antimage is melee ㄱㄱ Queen of pain or do they just buy force staffs? Force staves are the Ravens of Dota. No one buys them, butt hey are heroes if they do Ravens are rapiers or Linkens >.>
Ravens are Gems, obviously.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On February 08 2012 20:33 Iamyournoob wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 07:26 MrCon wrote:On February 08 2012 07:20 Drazerk wrote:
Ganzi to take the group easily! Ganzi > MC Jjakji > Parting Ganzi > Jjakji Mark my words, they are wise. Well, your words may have been wise, but they turned out to be one thing in particular: Completely wrong. 
Trust me when we say we intentionally did this to curse him 
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Hahaha, the learn korean snippets are awesome.
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Ganzi....omg....i wanted ganzi to win...........T_T
and i seriouly dont know who to cheer for in the next match i mean parting is good and all but i just dont love him of yet and jj is awesome....except this is TvP
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United States97274 Posts
Come on Parting! Get me a perfect liquibet score for the day
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On February 08 2012 20:32 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 20:29 ChaosTerran wrote:On February 08 2012 20:25 WigglingSquid wrote:On February 08 2012 20:21 ChaosTerran wrote:On February 08 2012 20:12 WigglingSquid wrote:Poor GanZi. Just dying to every small early or mid-game timing in this group... On February 08 2012 20:12 mvtaylor wrote:On February 08 2012 20:09 WigglingSquid wrote:On February 08 2012 20:02 Xarles wrote:On February 08 2012 19:45 Mr_Wo_Ot wrote:On February 08 2012 19:39 MorroW wrote:
no pro players want to give feedback or post in these forums because not its not always what you want to hear. and then you all come bashing
daybreak and metropolis are too long distances to punish something like this
you cant give the 15cc argument because 1rax expo gives a weaker followup than 15cc. thats why people go 15cc rofl, because the econ kicks in more quickly. then you get you extra raxes and geysers more quickly. you dont understand basic rts or tvp build.
toss scouts 15cc, grabs 2 nexuses, then goes onwards to not barely be able to defend, nope, he goes on to almost go kill protoss that was constantly building units on 2bases
you guys should realize me being in this game 12 hours a day for over a year knowing and talking to almost all pros plus practicing these gsl maps regularly, dont you think i should know the timings and find the flaws better than you?
its silly some tosses just come at me here just because they are defending their race
if you want feedback and pros opinions, the good and bad comes in a pack. im not gonna sit here and obliviously say "great timing on that 2base protoss" every time we watch gsl. please realize they can play macro oriented, they dont have to play like this. but they almost play like this exclusively because its more easy and they are more successful with it. Remember the people who are responding to you are the 2% of the people reading and the other 98% enjoy reading your posts. So please dont let the haters get to you! Morrow hwaiting! Agreed. Not to mention that he gives proper reasoning towards his opinions as opposed to someone like IdrA. I'll take that over an attention seeking no-name whiner any day. The problem is that pros play their game twelve hours a day, but communicate very little about it with people who are not on their par. They walk in a forum, scribble two sentences without any reasoning or explanation whatsoever and complain when users disrespect their opinion, expecting everyone to merely bow to their experience out of sheer faith. I respect their opinion, and I agree that the TL forums can be a dangerous place for their peace of mind, but even if they don't feel like taking their time to explain they could avoid bashing just by being more subtle with their balance whine. (Nothing exotic. Just add "in the current metagame" to every complaint and no one will be able to tell it off as easily.) I think MorroW very obviously put forward his case as to why a build shouldn't allow you to get ahead both economically and in army. Yes, but he did so after his first post; anyway, I was not talking about MorroW specifically, but of the pros' general attitude. I will take their opinion as almost granted in most cases, but if they go to the length of being arrogant I will be much less adamant about defending them. No he didn't. What the hell man. he explained perfectly well why this strat is imabalanced. Just because you can't grasp this simple concept doesn't mean that he didn't explain it, it just means that you simply don't understand what he's talking about. which is a problem on your end not his. If you don't understand the game, then don't discuss it. sick of noobs complaining about people who "dont explain it well enough" this isn't pre-school dude, if you dont understand it you simply dont know enough about SC2 or RTS games in general. I am not an idiot. I might have missed his true first post, or you might have. Please refrain from jumping on the offense before considering other options. And here it is. You are quite wrong, because this does not explain absolutely anything: just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers
if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say
you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him.
well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute.
anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it Yes, it does? You can take 3 base get an economic advantage and kill the terran at the same time without being "all-in" even if he has bunkers up pretty much is imbalanced. Just like Morrow said. How can you possibly argue that this is balanced? this goes against the very nature of rts games. Terran can do the exact same thing to protoss and zerg lmao. Reactor hellion into third base gives terran a third base before zerg, and quick third command center is also becoming very popular for terrans versus protoss. There was a game, maybe with Puzzle, where super quick third CC held off a four gate.
Hellion expand isn't a kill-move though?! And what TvP build lets you push off 2 base while taking an early third with the potential to kill the protoss? I would love to see that build.
The concepts are completely different. The terran build in TvZ is a pressure build, not a kill-move and I really don't know what the mysterious TvP build is you are talking about.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On February 08 2012 20:32 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 20:31 Hassybaby wrote:On February 08 2012 20:30 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 20:30 zhurai wrote:On February 08 2012 20:29 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 20:27 zhurai wrote:On February 08 2012 20:26 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 20:24 Hassybaby wrote:On February 08 2012 20:23 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 20:20 Hassybaby wrote:
[quote]
But that would mean one of the secret hops would basically be in Jjakji's base, and the other sort of where the north gas geyser is on the base north of Ganzi's main
How is that fair? Jjakji so has this since he can buy himself a Reaver in his base! JJakji won the first game giving him the advantage clearly. He had the Dazzle-medivac on his side. Damn that shallow grave Medivacs are more like nature's attendance than dazzle's heal. More over time than instant also they don't kill everything at the same time oh thanks for the idea ulti = medivac heal, maxed hp to you and other heroes around you... or drop/blink oO LOL Stalkers are anti mages! Hahaha except they are ranged, and antimage is melee ㄱㄱ Queen of pain or do they just buy force staffs? Force staves are the Ravens of Dota. No one buys them, butt hey are heroes if they do Ravens are rapiers or Linkens >.>
Nah, everyone buys a rapier in the late game. So a rapier is a BC
Linkens....may well be a Raven, but you could argue that a Carrier or a Mothership fit that category as well
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On February 08 2012 20:33 Fishgle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 20:32 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 20:31 Hassybaby wrote:On February 08 2012 20:30 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 20:30 zhurai wrote:On February 08 2012 20:29 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 20:27 zhurai wrote:On February 08 2012 20:26 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 20:24 Hassybaby wrote:On February 08 2012 20:23 Drazerk wrote:
[quote]
JJakji won the first game giving him the advantage clearly. He had the Dazzle-medivac on his side. Damn that shallow grave Medivacs are more like nature's attendance than dazzle's heal. More over time than instant also they don't kill everything at the same time oh thanks for the idea ulti = medivac heal, maxed hp to you and other heroes around you... or drop/blink oO LOL Stalkers are anti mages! Hahaha except they are ranged, and antimage is melee ㄱㄱ Queen of pain or do they just buy force staffs? Force staves are the Ravens of Dota. No one buys them, butt hey are heroes if they do Ravens are rapiers or Linkens >.> Ravens are Gems, obviously.
Na observers are gems
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
Cloud Kingdom is a better starting map for Jjakji. Let's see if he can take advantage.
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Come on Jjakji ! If you win this one my weird LB comes through for the day!
On a side note: Is there a seperate rank for bw on LB or not? Cause it seems like it thinks I haven't bet on every match but the only ones I haven't voted on are bw.
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On February 08 2012 20:32 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 20:31 Hassybaby wrote:On February 08 2012 20:30 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 20:30 zhurai wrote:On February 08 2012 20:29 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 20:27 zhurai wrote:On February 08 2012 20:26 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 20:24 Hassybaby wrote:On February 08 2012 20:23 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 20:20 Hassybaby wrote:
[quote]
But that would mean one of the secret hops would basically be in Jjakji's base, and the other sort of where the north gas geyser is on the base north of Ganzi's main
How is that fair? Jjakji so has this since he can buy himself a Reaver in his base! JJakji won the first game giving him the advantage clearly. He had the Dazzle-medivac on his side. Damn that shallow grave Medivacs are more like nature's attendance than dazzle's heal. More over time than instant also they don't kill everything at the same time oh thanks for the idea ulti = medivac heal, maxed hp to you and other heroes around you... or drop/blink oO LOL Stalkers are anti mages! Hahaha except they are ranged, and antimage is melee ㄱㄱ Queen of pain or do they just buy force staffs? Force staves are the Ravens of Dota. No one buys them, butt hey are heroes if they do Ravens are rapiers or Linkens >.>
Force Staff is core on some heroes on some builds, such as Windrunner. Many go for Linken's on Weaver.
I'd say Ravens are like Dagon or something, maybe??
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EPT
