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On February 13 2012 20:57 purpose wrote:
But look at that game were Demuslim did a bunker rush on Violoet I think it was. That game was exactly as over as the idra vs Alive game. But violet does not reage quit like idra. He instead took the small chance he had and did a runby with lings and went for a counter and it turned out that demuslim forgot to walloff with a 2nd depot so lings got in to the base and violet won. Shit happens but in idras world he gets so angry and leaves and then people say that it was impossible to win. Bigger things have happend.
aLive is not someone who would 'forget' to wall off. Nor was the map Bel'shir beach. Even if he did run lings past, aLive would have seen it and would have been able to wall off in time.
Also, you can't really say he should be 'better' at holding these things off. I'm sure IdrA is amazing at holding 2rax pressure, it's just that when someone who isn't a Code S terran is doing it, it is far easier. You can't just expect a 2rax and it is pretty much impossible to scout it on that map. He played greedily, and got punished for it.
On February 13 2012 21:06 bgx wrote:
Idra's "macro" is built up on sacrifaces he makes to achieve superior economic position in mid/late game, where's the logic of playing into his hands, when you can actually win by focusing on lack of idra's defenses/game sense. Its a paradox, people started to believe, that being greedy is superior to punishing greed.
You are pretty wrong.
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[QUOTE]On February 13 2012 21:24 BlondeOna wrote:
[QUOTE]On February 13 2012 20:57 purpose wrote:
But look at that game were Demuslim did a bunker rush on Violoet I think it was. That game was exactly as over as the idra vs Alive game. But violet does not reage quit like idra. He instead took the small chance he had and did a runby with lings and went for a counter and it turned out that demuslim forgot to walloff with a 2nd depot so lings got in to the base and violet won. Shit happens but in idras world he gets so angry and leaves and then people say that it was impossible to win. Bigger things have happend.
[/QUOTE]
aLive is not someone who would 'forget' to wall off. Nor was the map Bel'shir beach. Even if he did run lings past, aLive would have seen it and would have been able to wall off in time.
[QUOTE]On February 13 2012 21:06 bgx wrote:
[/QUOTE]
This is just funny. How can you know? Alive is not really MVP and Demuslim is a very very good player and should not forget stuff like that.
You do know that JAEDONG forgot to upgrade consume in a game vs Flash and lost to it. how many people do you think before that would have said "OMG do you really think Jaedong would forget something like that"?
stork forgot to upgrade goon range in a freaking MSL final ace match vs Bisu and lost the game because of it.
It does happen and even if it is 1 in 1000 games, it will be worth when it happens.
As for Idra 6pooling. Do people really think that Idra did that as a tactic to actually win the series? Sure it could be like that, people do 6pool and win as someon said. But look at the 2 first game, look at how idra handled them, look at idras history nd ask yourself again.....nah Idra was tilted and pissed and just wanted to get out of there.
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That's exactly what I said if you read my original post. He tilted. Do you have eyes or do you just possess an inability to read plain text?
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Ban idra from nasl! Throwing games on purpose.
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On February 13 2012 14:05 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:00 wanghis wrote:On February 13 2012 13:59 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude. There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts. Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous. Except Alive was using legitimate strategies and IdrA was 6 pooling while doing a bad job of it? You can play Poker and win with "legit" strats, or you can win with luck. Alive was playing extremely risky, if you scout what he is doing and respond properly, you easily defeat it. He was going to need Idra to not respond and not scout it to win. He was lucky Idra did neither well. Now you could argue that since he won, the ends justify the means, and thus he looks brilliant, but what if he lost both of those games? Would you say "Except Idra was using legitimate strategies and Alive was all-inning and doing a bad job of it?" Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect?
I just had to to respond to this post because, as a poker player, I think I know more about exploiting strategies and balancing ranges and how it applies to SC2.
Idra's problem is that he is so exploitable that any early cheese is a legitimate strategy against him. An early cheese can be a great strategy against certain players and a horrible strategy against others. Alive's game 1 strategy was great against Idra because everyone knows he plays greedy and doesn't respond well to pressure. Idra doesn't successfully 'balance his range', or mix up his build orders.
Playing solid starcraft doesn't mean only playing macro games, just as playing solid poker doesn't mean sitting around like a nit playing QQ and AK+. Truly solid play changes based on the opponent; if the opponent is playing tight, ABC poker than playing 'by the book' is actually incorrect.
Letting Idra get to the mid/late game without putting pressure on his obvious weakness is not playing the game correctly. Alive is a good SC2 player, and like any game, SC2 is not about unit control or macro but about EXPLOITING your opponents weakness. Micro/macro is but a means to that end and Idra needs to change his understanding of the game if he is to be at all successful. We all saw what happened to Naniwa at Providence.. an unbalanced build opening range (going FFE every map) is POOR PLAY regardless of how good your micro/macro is and will be punished by players who understand this (Leenock).
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On February 13 2012 21:44 BlondeOna wrote:
That's exactly what I said if you read my original post. He tilted. Do you have eyes or do you just possess an inability to read plain text?
If you were talking to me I was replying to your post that Alive would not just forget to wall off. The part about 6pool was to another poster who claimed that it should have been a tactic by idra to 6pool twice in a row due to som ekorean doing it to MVP or if it was MMa.
So you might have the exact same inability that you claimed I have.
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EG should at least not accept the $100
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On February 13 2012 21:51 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:05 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 14:00 wanghis wrote:On February 13 2012 13:59 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude. There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts. Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous. Except Alive was using legitimate strategies and IdrA was 6 pooling while doing a bad job of it? You can play Poker and win with "legit" strats, or you can win with luck. Alive was playing extremely risky, if you scout what he is doing and respond properly, you easily defeat it. He was going to need Idra to not respond and not scout it to win. He was lucky Idra did neither well. Now you could argue that since he won, the ends justify the means, and thus he looks brilliant, but what if he lost both of those games? Would you say "Except Idra was using legitimate strategies and Alive was all-inning and doing a bad job of it?" Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? I just had to to respond to this post because, as a poker player, I think I know more about exploiting strategies and balancing ranges and how it applies to SC2. Idra's problem is that he is so exploitable that any early cheese is a legitimate strategy against him. An early cheese can be a great strategy against certain players and a horrible strategy against others. Alive's game 1 strategy was great against Idra because everyone knows he plays greedy and doesn't respond well to pressure. Idra doesn't successfully 'balance his range', or mix up his build orders. Playing solid starcraft doesn't mean only playing macro games, just as playing solid poker doesn't mean sitting around like a nit playing QQ and AK+. Truly solid play changes based on the opponent; if the opponent is playing tight, ABC poker than playing 'by the book' is actually incorrect. Letting Idra get to the mid/late game without putting pressure on his obvious weakness is not playing the game correctly. Alive is a good SC2 player, and like any game, SC2 is not about unit control or macro but about EXPLOITING your opponents weakness. Micro/macro is but a means to that end and Idra needs to change his understanding of the game if he is to be at all successful. We all saw what happened to Naniwa at Providence.. an unbalanced build opening range (going FFE every map) is POOR PLAY regardless of how good your micro/macro is and will be punished by players who understand this (Leenock).
Yea this was spot on! Close the topic!
But Idra and his fans thinkt hat SC2 is only played in one way. you get to 4 bases and then you attack. And thats the only way to show how good you are. If you do not play like that you have no skill and are only cheesing, coinflipping or just dont know shit how to even play sc2.
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On February 13 2012 21:51 purpose wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 21:44 BlondeOna wrote:
That's exactly what I said if you read my original post. He tilted. Do you have eyes or do you just possess an inability to read plain text? If you were talking to me I was replying to your post that Alive would not just forget to wall off. The part about 6pool was to another poster who claimed that it should have been a tactic by idra to 6pool twice in a row due to som ekorean doing it to MVP or if it was MMa. So you might have the exact same inability that you claimed I have.
Yes because you were direct and you clearly detailed who that part of the post was directed to.
God damn idiot.
User was warned for this post
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well, this wasnt really what they were hoping for I guess. Its a shame players tilt so hard. Hopefully Idra wont be invited to showmatches for a while, atleast not ones that pay for just participating.
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This is really bad :/. What Naniwa did was way more justified than this. I'm sure Alex Garfield isn't too happy with Idra either...
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On February 13 2012 21:51 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:05 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 14:00 wanghis wrote:On February 13 2012 13:59 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude. There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts. Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous. Except Alive was using legitimate strategies and IdrA was 6 pooling while doing a bad job of it? You can play Poker and win with "legit" strats, or you can win with luck. Alive was playing extremely risky, if you scout what he is doing and respond properly, you easily defeat it. He was going to need Idra to not respond and not scout it to win. He was lucky Idra did neither well. Now you could argue that since he won, the ends justify the means, and thus he looks brilliant, but what if he lost both of those games? Would you say "Except Idra was using legitimate strategies and Alive was all-inning and doing a bad job of it?" Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? I just had to to respond to this post because, as a poker player, I think I know more about exploiting strategies and balancing ranges and how it applies to SC2. Idra's problem is that he is so exploitable that any early cheese is a legitimate strategy against him. An early cheese can be a great strategy against certain players and a horrible strategy against others. Alive's game 1 strategy was great against Idra because everyone knows he plays greedy and doesn't respond well to pressure. Idra doesn't successfully 'balance his range', or mix up his build orders. Playing solid starcraft doesn't mean only playing macro games, just as playing solid poker doesn't mean sitting around like a nit playing QQ and AK+. Truly solid play changes based on the opponent; if the opponent is playing tight, ABC poker than playing 'by the book' is actually incorrect. Letting Idra get to the mid/late game without putting pressure on his obvious weakness is not playing the game correctly. Alive is a good SC2 player, and like any game, SC2 is not about unit control or macro but about EXPLOITING your opponents weakness. Micro/macro is but a means to that end and Idra needs to change his understanding of the game if he is to be at all successful. We all saw what happened to Naniwa at Providence.. an unbalanced build opening range (going FFE every map) is POOR PLAY regardless of how good your micro/macro is and will be punished by players who understand this (Leenock).
This. Thousand times.
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4-0 aLive was very expected... but not in this way... seriously, didn't the Naniwa indident teach everyone a lesson?
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3937 Posts
IdrA has played the same style for a year now. If he's unwilling to change his demise is just unavoidable. Either way I'm not quite sure what's going on in his head acting like a jerk both playwise and mannerwise. Hopefully sponsors will react to this and not invite him to showmatches etc. in the future.
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On February 13 2012 22:02 BlondeOna wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 21:51 purpose wrote:On February 13 2012 21:44 BlondeOna wrote:
That's exactly what I said if you read my original post. He tilted. Do you have eyes or do you just possess an inability to read plain text? If you were talking to me I was replying to your post that Alive would not just forget to wall off. The part about 6pool was to another poster who claimed that it should have been a tactic by idra to 6pool twice in a row due to som ekorean doing it to MVP or if it was MMa. So you might have the exact same inability that you claimed I have. Yes because you were direct and you clearly detailed who that part of the post was directed to. God damn idiot.
lol calm down bro, you seem mad? Its not good for your health to be that upset tbh.
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What the hell? :/ is this ok?
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On February 13 2012 20:20 Krallman wrote:
Why do people even invite Idra to showmatches?
Not sure why you're asking this. Look at the amount of discussion going on for terribly played games. Could you imagine if it was a 7-game epic series?
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On February 13 2012 22:30 squanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 20:20 Krallman wrote:
Why do people even invite Idra to showmatches? Not sure why you're asking this. Look at the amount of discussion going on for terribly played games. Could you imagine if it was a 7-game epic series?
without rage quit and 6 pools? It would be half this long.
Whenever there is a drama Stephano leaving, probes pulled or Idra doing his usual job it gets more attention than the real content (playing the game, unless its like GSL or MLG finals). Its pretty sad to see this, and thats why Idra will always be relevant, because this is the paradox of his current fame, sometimes i wonder if its intentional because history shows its not the first time and this weird maybe lucky marketing pulls of, Idra is getting BOTH his fanboys and haters to watch his matches, first is cheering for him others want him fail nonetheless all of them counts as stream viewers and we will have to live with it for a long time, regardless of idra skill.
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I always get annoyed how Idra gets a lot of sympathy in these kind of situation but rest of the progamers gets a ton of shit how they are progamers must respect the game, cant forfeit matches.
Can people stop forgiving and ignoring what he is doing and treat him like everyone else ?
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On February 13 2012 22:30 squanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 20:20 Krallman wrote:
Why do people even invite Idra to showmatches? Not sure why you're asking this. Look at the amount of discussion going on for terribly played games. Could you imagine if it was a 7-game epic series?
The idea of "Any publicity is is good publicity" is completely wrong in eSports. People are talking a LOT about idra in this, yes, but not in a positive way. People are talking about how they don't want to watch him and may not watch NASL showmatches featuring him. I for one know I won't be supporting IdrA, EG, or any tourneys that support a player who obvious throws games for a quick buck. I see it as basically a kind of theft, to both the viewer and the company holding the match (in this case NASL). Which sucks, I actually like Machine, Demuslim, iNc etc in EG but I won't be buying a hoodie from them because their star is a personality I absolutely despise. Note I didn't like IdrA well before this, but this only compounds the issue.
Also, IdrA has his own shirt, which sales directly support EG. Shit like this happens, less people want to buy that shirt, less money comes into EG. Honestly I hope IdrA continues his childish behavior (Throwing games, calling people terrible, complete lack of respect, constant BM) because eventually it'll come to bite him in the ass and it may make him actually get in line or get the hell out of the way.
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EPT
