EPT[NASTL] Liquid vs EG - Page 32
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
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Madder
Australia427 Posts
On February 07 2012 08:27 Larkin wrote: Eurgh, a painful series to watch. All-in, punishment, all-in. Kinda sad how many roaches Idra made and still got crushed by those blink stalkers of Hero. Usually I get dominated by roaches with pure blink stalker, even with +2. I guess Hero's micro is just that good. Also kinda disappointing to watch, I usually love watching Ret or Zenio because of how drone happy they are, it usually turns into a nice long, entertaining game. To watch Puma and JYP get smashed by roach all-ins is kinda depressing from an entertainment standpoint. i.e, I'm sad my fav t34m l0st.  | ||
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89andy
Canada192 Posts
On February 07 2012 08:26 Talin wrote: They can't support full time players NOW. If there is a (financially) fair playing field, that could change in near future. However, if Kawaii wins an MLG and then gets picked up by Complexity or w/e, you're basically gutting a team and denying them a future and a chance to acquire sponsorships. Root's lineup right now would be: Kiwi, Slush, Sheth, qxc, Catz, Drewbie and Destiny. Do you think that it would be impossible for this team to get their own sponsorship now? I don't. They're all marketable and they would be hands down the best North American team roster-wise, and dominantly so. But now a ton of other teams is exploiting their success and popularity as players. And for all the popularity Catz (in particular) and Drewbie have, do you really think Complexity will be willing to provide them with long term future? Look at what happened to FXO once the management got bored of having a foreign team and decided that taking over fOu is efficient, simpler, easier, and quite possibly cheaper. Do you think Huk will still be on EG with the same (let alone bigger) salary in 2 years, IF there is even an SC2 EG in 2 years, considering these organization will always go after the "hottest" new esport that guarantees the most exposure and leave their other divisions on the backburner (if they keep them at all)? It's all about whether a few top players get paid well now while all the perspective teams fall, or a ton more players get paid well in a few years once the scene really grows instead of just being an artificially inflated bubble that it is now. What is going on now in SC2 is simply not sustainable in the long run - and that's fine for organizations that will move on to a different game in a few years, because they benefit from the exposure of SC2 but also have follow-up options. It is definitely not fine for the future of SC2 players, no matter what salary they're on right now. Root DID have the lineup before. Look where that got them. Sponsorship dollars ARE HARD TO GET. You need skilled people to present hard data to these sponsors in order to entice them. Merely having a good lineup of players is not good enough. Back then Kiwi and QXC were the top players in NA and they still couldn't secure any kind of real sponsor. You think they can live off cup noodles every day? And no this is not really sustainable your living in a dream where many many mid tier pros can live off a decent salary, well fat chance. There just isn't enough money in the scene right now unless viewership numbers jump another 2-3 times probably. FXO dropped many of their players because most of them would not commit themselves to full time pro. They still kept FXOSlog for example, because he made the choice to stay in Korea. They did not cut them to take the easy way out, they wanted to built a legit good team. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On February 07 2012 08:43 89andy wrote: Root DID have the lineup before. Look where that got them. Sponsorship dollars ARE HARD TO GET. You need skilled people to present hard data to these sponsors in order to entice them. Merely having a good lineup of players is not good enough. Back then Kiwi and QXC were the top players in NA and they still couldn't secure any kind of real sponsor. You think they can live off cup noodles every day? And no this is not really sustainable your living in a dream where many many mid tier pros can live off a decent salary, well fat chance. There just isn't enough money in the scene right now unless viewership numbers jump another 2-3 times probably. FXO dropped many of their players because most of them would not commit themselves to full time pro. They still kept FXOSlog for example, because he made the choice to stay in Korea. They did not cut them to take the easy way out, they wanted to built a legit good team. Yeah, Root did have the lineup, but their players haven't really had the same amount of exposure and success. Sheth was nowhere to be seen while on Root for example, and Destiny was still this fringe character that a lot people in the community hated, and most others didn't take him seriously. They actually managed to get some sponsorships a few months before the Complexity deal (Twitch and 2 others iirc). They had a growing fanbase, and this was in 2010/early 2011 when the whole scene was still growing. All they really needed was a little more time imo, it's just that FXO and Complexity etc showed up first, and obviously it would be stupid of the players to refuse an opportunity like that. Viewership and sponsorships is never going to jump with things being ran the way they are now. They're only going to go down. Even the number of people who actually play SC2 is going down (and nobody is doing anything to promote the game itself). It's what the term bubble means. We might have had a decade-long scene where all the players on pro teams get a reasonable salary and can have an actual career, but we will not have this because western e-sports has once again, for a millionth time, elected "quick rise, quicker fall" strategy. If you're resigned to SC2 being one more in the line of short term spotlight esport titles, then I suppose the current state of affairs is acceptable. The whole line of multi-gaming organizations and the usual esports sponsors have no motivation to make it anything else/more than that. | ||
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ztranger
Sweden57 Posts
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Catatonic
United States699 Posts
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
On February 07 2012 03:58 ninjamyst wrote: how come Idra can go around calling people imbeciles and not get at least temp banned? he gets tempbanned regularly, allthough i think this is pretty called for, calling EG mercenaries and implying they have no team spirit without any sort of explanation why this would be makes imbecile a pretty tame insult imo. | ||
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
On February 07 2012 09:04 Catatonic wrote: EG should've won 3-1 :l LOL Well they didn't. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
On February 06 2012 21:36 Talin wrote: Since you're British and making comparison to sports, let me remind you that in the most popular sport in UK (and the world) teams that outspend their competition by a huge margin are almost universally hated. That business practice, despite (sadly) being commonplace in sports today, does absolutely not sit well with the majority of fans. And neither it should because money should never have been allowed to be the deciding factor in sports to such a huge extent. And the same holds for almost any other sport as well (not sure about the American based ones, I feel things might be different there). The only way to have a fair and reasonable competition today is to have a central (kespa-like) organization and salary caps and transfer caps for all teams involved. Yeah Barcelona, Real Madrid, Manchester united, Chelsea, Inter, Milan are the most hated teams? Please EG pays good salarys and creates a USA practice house and sends/gets 4 guys in the slayers house and they are a teams of mercenaries? They send them everywhere all around the world and they are mercenaries? They are a professional team that works very hard to make stuff happen.. I understand why people don't like them but a team of "e-sports" mercenaries is a team that is low-tier with lots of SKoreans and they play online from home and get payed to play a few games. Sending people all around the world with their team to events and practice houses is just a team. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
Liquid just too baller to lose, I guess. Ret has really been carrying in the Team Leagues lately. Good on him! | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
How do you think we got Huk the first time around...? | ||
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Proseat
Germany5113 Posts
On February 07 2012 06:53 NASL.tv wrote: Update: The VODs are now available in free 1080p here: Team Liquid vs Evil Geniuses Awesome. With this free 1080p (or even 720p) stuff I am actually more and more looking forward to watching NAS(T)L. Well done, guys! You've improved a lot! On February 07 2012 05:32 Liquid`NonY wrote: This is just step one. Long before the year is out, you will see true. 2012 year of Liquid. Liquid`NonY laying down the law, shit just got real, hehe!  Liquid Fighting!  | ||
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Chriscras
Korea (South)2812 Posts
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suejak
Japan545 Posts
On February 07 2012 15:52 Liquid`Jinro wrote: How do you think we got Huk the first time around...? Yo man, I know you're trying to be "adult" about all this, but Liquid would do well to protect its Knight in Shining Armour image... Yeah, you bought HuK from Millennium. But he definitely had tenuous ties to the team and you offered a lot more than just money -- you offered a home. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Full.tilt
United Kingdom1709 Posts
On February 07 2012 18:31 suejak wrote: Yo man, I know you're trying to be "adult" about all this, but Liquid would do well to protect its Knight in Shining Armour image... Yeah, you bought HuK from Millennium. But he definitely had tenuous ties to the team and you offered a lot more than just money -- you offered a home. At least that was how it was spun in "official" posts. Guess we have to ignore the fluff surrounding Liquid as well. | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On February 07 2012 18:31 suejak wrote: Yo man, I know you're trying to be "adult" about all this, but Liquid would do well to protect its Knight in Shining Armour image... Yeah, you bought HuK from Millennium. But he definitely had tenuous ties to the team and you offered a lot more than just money -- you offered a home. The Following PREVIEW has been Approved for ALL AUDIENCES by the Motion Picture Association of America NARRATOR: In a world where korean mercenaries dominate the field of Starcraft. Westerners had but one hope... one man... (Screen fades to black) (Angelic choir music starts playing) NARRATOR: HuK! (80s style sports montage where HuK owns korean face on the ladder) NARRATOR: Every team wanted him and they offered him more and more riches beyond wildest dreams, trying to outbid each other. Every team --- but Team Liquid, who spend all their money running an orphanage and making soup for the homeless. (Overview of a press room with huk standing behind a lectern packed with microphones) NARRATOR: When the day finally came when HuK had to choose a team, to everyones surprise HuK announced that he was joining Team Liquid. STARCRAFT REPORTER (Artosis): Why did you join Team Liquid instead of for example Evil Geniuses. They even have a pro house mansion for gods sake! (Close zoom on HuKs face) HUK: Because they offered me more than just money --- they offered a home. NARRATOR: Coming this summer: Team Liquid - The knights in shining +3 Armor. Rated PG-13. | ||
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Hydroxyl
206 Posts
On February 07 2012 15:52 Liquid`Jinro wrote: How do you think we got Huk the first time around...? Not a long time ago someone posted his disbelief here that HuK was at first on Millenium, and won his first MLG under Millenium's colors. You'd be surprised at how many people around here somehow believe that TL "discovered" Huk and took him on the fly, when they simply made him a stronger offer after his eclosion under Millenium. | ||
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ch4ppi
Germany802 Posts
On February 07 2012 09:04 Catatonic wrote: EG should've won 3-1 :l That might be one of the most stupid statements of TL.net forums I've read so far.... | ||
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Hydroxyl
206 Posts
Now let me if you allow me recentrate the debate, we're neither advocating EG to not pay their progamers, nor that in other teams, progamers join for other reasons than money, no, that's assumed and known. And not the problem we're talking about here. The problem, as someone started to point out earlier doesn't stand from the point of view of the player, we don't mind if he plays for the money or the "team spirit"; that's not our business and doesn't matter on the topic. The problem relies on the teams, and what they do with the money they get from the exposure of their high-paid progamers. Yes, the problem and critics goes to teams that say "Fuck this business, fuck esport, I don't want it to grow, I'm not going to develop the scene, I'm going to take in my pocket as much money as I can while it lasts (not long because of my business behavior, but there will be other businesses to tune in after to sustain myself so I don't care), I'm going to buy my talents (which is ok on the first hand) and with the exposure I get from them, I'm not going to invest into develop new talents and let the scene die from the stranghold I put on it (which is what we're talking about here). It's business models supported by structures policy that we criticize here. When you see EG offering a contract to JYP, it's all good it means more exposure to EG, thus to the american scene since it's an americant team and EG is going to send JYP to all american events, and it is good for EG and the scene. But when you see EG not supporting anymore one the already few north american progamers, Axslav, despite the return on investment they will get from acquiring JYP, sign of what I hope to be their healthy economy and not their illusions of grandeur, even when Axslav is producing results and is improving (sign of better exposure to come), then the alarm is ringing, and you see pros writting desastrous blogs and tomatoes flying from fans hands: they all are ashamed of such attitude and ungratefulness from EG to the hands that are currently feeding them. And it's not true that there's no other way of doing around, if they're not the only ones to do the same, some structures take the effort and money to invest in the scene that feeds them, and while it might be risky or long sighted, it is working and rewarding, for everybody, like Take investing in homestory cup instead of just buying out korean talents for his team, or Millenium growing french esports and getting what they deserve for it, world-class talents (Stephano was on Millenium since his early times of warcraft 3, and now is competing with the best, but other actors from Millenium are now getting professionnal contracts after a long effort of developping the scene itself). I don't say those teams won't get to the point of paying internationnal players, they all do and it's great, but they don't forget to give back to the hand that feed. It applies to teams, but to events too, like Carmac said there's two kind of event organizators out there, the ones that don't care about developping the scene and make cheap invitationnal format to get the money here and now, and leave when the progammers they constantly fed retire, and the ones that understand that, for esport to grow and developp further than a bubble lasting a few years, you have to hold qualifiers and hold the flak for not having "celebrities", while those said celebrities got eliminated in said qualifiers. | ||
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