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Azhrei16
United States284 Posts
On January 29 2012 11:02 Seraphone wrote: The Zenio game was from well over a year ago. Not really relevant. In the last few months he's shown fantastic TvZ. Against who? I can't find complete results for him on Liquipedia. He 4-2'd Leenock, that's all I can see. After he was able to watch replays of Leenock beating MVP in a close series 3-2. | ||
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wklbishop
United States1286 Posts
On January 29 2012 11:00 Azhrei16 wrote: From the results I could find, Jjakji is 6-4 against Zergs in the GSL. 0-2 Zenio, 2-0 Luvsic, 2-0 Lucky, 0-2 Leenock, 4-2 Leenock. That's it. Need to hold off before we can say this guy has "amazing!" TvZ. That loss against Zenio was from a 2010 man back when he was a scrub. Plus, he's one of the few terrans that was able to consistently spank Stephano on ladder. That's why Leenock said in an interview he considered Jjakji's TvZ on MVP's level due to ladder experiences Leenock had personally with the guy. Besides, if anyone watched ESV weekly then they'll have realized that he is a sick player even before he all-killed FXO. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On January 29 2012 10:59 1Eris1 wrote: Obviously it's top tier quality, but I just don't understand how we put one great series > months and months of continued sucess in the MU. (MVP and MMA) Also, using Zenio in an attempt to justify amazing TvZ isn't all that telling  There are not really any best XvX player except for Nestea ZvZ. Jjakji defiantly top 3 TvZ. | ||
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
On January 29 2012 11:04 xsnac wrote: do you rly compare jakji to goody ? "the guy that gets supply block every 25 seconds and have 5/5 queue units in rax" even mc sad goody has horrible macro @ hsc appearantly goody's mech play is at least as good as jjakji's so... why not? | ||
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Azhrei16
United States284 Posts
On January 29 2012 11:05 wklbishop wrote: That loss against Zenio was from a 2010 man back when he was a scrub. Plus, he's one of the few terrans that was able to consistently spank Stephano on ladder. That's why Leenock said in an interview he considered Jjakji's TvZ on MVP's level due to ladder experiences Leenock had personally with the guy. Besides, if anyone watched ESV weekly then they'll have realized that he is a sick player even before he all-killed FXO. Ah yeah I COMPLETELY forgot about the Korean Weekly. And I just got done watching some of his games on there also. My bad. I wasn't arguing, just wanted to know where people got around to saying his TvZ is amazing. | ||
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Seraphone
United Kingdom1219 Posts
On January 29 2012 11:05 Azhrei16 wrote: Against who? I can't find complete results for him on Liquipedia. He 4-2'd Leenock, that's all I can see. After he was able to watch replays of Leenock beating MVP in a close series 3-2. Leenock and Sen. | ||
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Asha
United Kingdom38257 Posts
Also beat Jookto in a recent ESV weekly and tooled Zenio in the FIS this week. + manhandled July in a very nice macro TvZ in the qualifers for IPL TA | ||
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Azhrei16
United States284 Posts
On January 29 2012 11:07 Asha` wrote: Also beat Jookto in a recent ESV weekly and tooled Zenio in the FIS this week. + manhandled July in a very nice macro TvZ in the qualifers for IPL TA Yeah I was mostly looking at GSL results since I can't find any other ones on Liquipedia. I forgot about the Korean Weekly also. ^_^ | ||
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The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
On January 29 2012 11:00 Azhrei16 wrote: From the results I could find, Jjakji is 6-4 against Zergs in the GSL. 0-2 Zenio, 2-0 Luvsic, 2-0 Lucky, 0-2 Leenock, 4-2 Leenock. That's it. Need to hold off before we can say this guy has "amazing!" TvZ. I see how his results in GSL Open Season 2 against Zenio are more relevant to his skill than his ridiculous performance in TvZ. Why are you not including Up/Downs, GSTL, and ESV Weekly exactly? Up/Downs and GSTL both are relevant as is the Korean Weekly tournaments. (and if we're not including online events than Nerchio would have literally nothing speaking to his credibility other than winning over a tired, jetlagged GoOdy who had already taken out his toughest competition). Jjakji is 29-15 (65.91%) in TvZ, that's pretty amazing. | ||
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
On January 29 2012 11:09 The Final Boss wrote: I see how his results in GSL Open Season 2 against Zenio are more relevant to his skill than his ridiculous performance in TvZ. Why are you not including Up/Downs, GSTL, and ESV Weekly exactly? Up/Downs and GSTL both are relevant as is the Korean Weekly tournaments. (and if we're not including online events than Nerchio would have literally nothing speaking to his credibility other than winning over a tired, jetlagged GoOdy who had already taken out his toughest competition). Jjakji is 29-15 (65.91%) in TvZ, that's pretty amazing. Well yes, but I don't think it necessarily qualifies him as "best TvZ in the world' as some people are saying. For comparison, MVP has a 67% winrate and MMA an 80% winrate | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
Edit: ty | ||
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Azhrei16
United States284 Posts
On January 29 2012 11:09 The Final Boss wrote: I see how his results in GSL Open Season 2 against Zenio are more relevant to his skill than his ridiculous performance in TvZ. Why are you not including Up/Downs, GSTL, and ESV Weekly exactly? Up/Downs and GSTL both are relevant as is the Korean Weekly tournaments. (and if we're not including online events than Nerchio would have literally nothing speaking to his credibility other than winning over a tired, jetlagged GoOdy who had already taken out his toughest competition). Jjakji is 29-15 (65.91%) in TvZ, that's pretty amazing. I wasn't exactly including the result against Zenio from 2010, I was just stating that as a result. The only Up/Downs I found were right before he got into Code S and he didn't play any Zergs. I forgot to look at GSTL, and in like 4-5 posts before yours I said I forgot to check the Korean Weekly. Chill out man x_x I couldn't find anything that said his complete win rate vs Zerg so that's why I was just wondering. I wasn't arguing that he is a scrub and no one should pay attention to his TvZ. I just wanted to be informed as to why everyone thought his TvZ was so amazing when I couldn't really find anything on it. I apologize. | ||
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The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
On January 29 2012 11:12 1Eris1 wrote: Well yes, but I don't think it necessarily qualifies him as "best TvZ in the world' as some people are saying. For comparison, MVP has a 67% winrate and MMA an 80% winrate I never said that he has the best, I was responding to the idea that his TvZ wasn't amazing. Mvp, MMA, and SuperNoVa all have better TvZ, but Jjakji is top 5 for sure. | ||
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R!!
Brazil938 Posts
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
Undoubtedly lag is playing a role in the poor micro we've seen so far. But he's lost to Code B Protosses Finale and Younghwa in KSL events. He looked very mortal against Jookto, almost lost to a resurgent Ace, was beaten by TheStC and got rolled by Ganzi. Now that Jjakji is a proven champion he is also a worthwhile target, and people will be dedicating time to figuring out his playstyle. None of this applies to the showmatch occurring right now, but don't be surprised if he turns in some disappointing performances in the next few months. And would it hurt a little to give Nerchio some credit? | ||
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Azhrei16
United States284 Posts
On January 29 2012 11:16 CosmicSpiral wrote: I think the Team Liquid forum is suffering from a classic case of "follow the leader" syndrome. There was very little fanfare surrounding Jjakji when he got through Ro32 and Ro16 (didn't really deserve any, his games weren't very convincing) and his victories over Puzzle and Oz got lukewarm responses compared to Leenock's path. But after Tastosis praised the crap out of his series vs Leenock, people became convinced that he would maintain that high level of play all the time. Suddenly he became this godly unbeatable player with perfect TvZ. Everyone forgot how weak his TvT could be and that it would be humanely impossible to maintain that level of play in every single match, every single series. Undoubtedly lag is playing a role in the poor micro we've seen so far. But he's lost to Code B Protosses Finale and Younghwa in KSL events. He looked very mortal against Jookto, almost lost to a resurgent Ace, was beaten by TheStC and got rolled by Ganzi. Now that Jjakji is a proven champion he is also a worthwhile target, and people will be dedicating time to figuring out his playstyle. None of this applies to the showmatch occurring right now, but don't be surprised if he turns in some disappointing performances in the next few months. Yeah that was sort of the point I was trying to make. I think it's part of the Artosis syndrome. Player wins one series against a really good player and suddenly they are "the best XvY'er in the world!". | ||
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Phobbers
773 Posts
On January 29 2012 11:16 CosmicSpiral wrote: I think the Team Liquid forum is suffering from a classic case of "follow the leader" syndrome. There was very little fanfare surrounding Jjakji when he got through Ro32 and Ro16 (didn't really deserve any, his games weren't very convincing) and his victories over Puzzle and Oz got lukewarm responses compared to Leenock's path. But after Tastosis praised the crap out of his series vs Leenock, people became convinced that he would maintain that high level of play all the time. Suddenly he became this godly unbeatable player with perfect TvZ. Everyone forgot how weak his TvT could be and that it would be humanely impossible to maintain that level of play in every single match, every single series. He always had great TvZ but the Leenock series really showcased how great it was when combined with his good preparation. Undoubtedly lag is playing a role in the poor micro we've seen so far. But he's lost to Code B Protosses Finale and Younghwa in KSL events. He looked very mortal against Jookto, almost lost to a resurgent Ace, was beaten by TheStC and got rolled by Ganzi. Now that Jjakji is a proven champion he is also a worthwhile target, and people will be dedicating time to figuring out his playstyle. None of this applies to the showmatch occurring right now, but don't be surprised if he turns in some disappointing performances in the next few months. And would it hurt a little to give Nerchio some credit? This, and this alone. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
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