The time has come for our eighth IGN Pro League Fight Club! This is a weekly king of the hill showmatch series. Basically, there will be a 1 vs. 1 best of 9 showmatch each and every week, where the winner will earn a $500 prize and a $100 bounty on their head. For example, if a player wins three weeks in a row they will have earned $1,500 and a $300 bounty. If a NEW challenger defeats him, they will earn $500 for the showmatch, take the $300 bounty home, and have a new $100 bounty placed on their head for each week that they win. (Similar to IPL Team Arena, but without the teams!)
When: Sunday, Jan 29 1:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at Sunday, Jan 29 5:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00))
Last week, Acer.Nerchio managed to dismantle the reigning champion, mouz.MaNa with a brilliant display of Zerg aggression. This week, he will face undoubtedly the toughest opponent yet, NSHS.Jjakji! This GSL Code S winner looks to prove that he is not just a flash in the pan in IPL Fight Club. Tune in to see if one of the very best foreign Zerg players can hang with GSL royalty!
Jesus... I love foreigners but THIS match is gonna be a slaughter! This is the part of fight club where you just wanna destroy something that was beautiful eh? (lol, <3 you guys though, can't wait to see this and see who eventually dethrones "the winner" of this)
On January 27 2012 03:59 MangoMountain wrote: IPL never ceases to amaze me with the caliber of players they manage to get in on these showmatches.
Well look at the prizepool.
And I think people are REALLY underestimating Nerchio. He is one of the best-foreign zergs, only person that I think is better than him is probably Stephano. Some people forget the huge amount of tournaments he's won.
On January 27 2012 04:02 FiWiFaKi wrote: And I think people are REALLY underestimating Nerchio. He is one of the best-foreign zergs, only person that I think is better than him is probably Stephano. Some people forget the huge amount of tournaments he's won.
Gogo Nerchio, should be an easy win for you.
Edit: 83 medals in TLPD just for reference.
I hear his run through the GSL was pretty good too.
I don't even know if you're serious. I will be amazed if Nerchio's level looks to be anywhere close to that of Jjakji's in this series.
Nerchio allmost never lose online and Jjaki dont know Nerchios style. However when that is sayd Jjaki are a monster. Was so impressed by him when he played vs Stephano when he was in Korea.
Ill say close match but Jjaki gonna edge it out
However if Nerchio wins Im just gonna say it before anyone els Jjaki must have been lagged o.0 Herpderp
On January 27 2012 03:59 MangoMountain wrote: IPL never ceases to amaze me with the caliber of players they manage to get in on these showmatches.
Well look at the prizepool.
And I think people are REALLY underestimating Nerchio. He is one of the best-foreign zergs, only person that I think is better than him is probably Stephano. Some people forget the huge amount of tournaments he's won.
Gogo Nerchio, should be an easy win for you.
Edit: 83 medals in TLPD just for reference.
????
what?
I'm not saying Nerchio is a pushover but I have no idea where you get "easy win"
On January 27 2012 03:59 MangoMountain wrote: IPL never ceases to amaze me with the caliber of players they manage to get in on these showmatches.
Well look at the prizepool.
And I think people are REALLY underestimating Nerchio. He is one of the best-foreign zergs, only person that I think is better than him is probably Stephano. Some people forget the huge amount of tournaments he's won.
Gogo Nerchio, should be an easy win for you.
Edit: 83 medals in TLPD just for reference.
We heard the same story at home story before nerchio played MC. Then MC proceeded to stomp nerchio without even breaking a sweat.
On January 27 2012 04:09 HappyChris wrote: Nerchio allmost never lose online and Jjaki dont know Nerchios style. However when that is sayd Jjaki are a monster. Was so impressed by him when he played vs Stephano when he was in Korea.
Ill say close match but Jjaki gonna edge it out
However if Nerchio wins Im just gonna say it before anyone els Jjaki must have been lagged o.0 Herpderp
Lol close match.. Just quoting this for when Nerchio gets ripped apart
On January 27 2012 03:59 MangoMountain wrote: IPL never ceases to amaze me with the caliber of players they manage to get in on these showmatches.
Well look at the prizepool.
And I think people are REALLY underestimating Nerchio. He is one of the best-foreign zergs, only person that I think is better than him is probably Stephano. Some people forget the huge amount of tournaments he's won.
IPL bringing on the great content daily! Jjakji should win, especially if he does any sort of preparation for this match. But I think Nerchio should be able to win at least 1 game in a BO9.
Sadly MaNa would have bigger chances against Jjakji (he won against Ghanzi in FC nr7[?]) with his PvT. And I do not know how much time Nerchio spends training nowadays (he said he want to focus on studying more). I predict 5-2 for Jjakji, and it will be nice result for Nerchio.. xd
I thought IPL learned from the first team arena to not invite a player (or team) that won't be beaten . I don't see Jjakji having a tough time with Nerchio, or many other players for that matter
Nerchio is prity good vs Terran, but Jjakji has one of the best TvZ's in the world. Common sense would say Jjakji easy. Hoping for the upset though, rooting for Nerchio non the less.
WTF Jjakji? Nerchio doesn't stand a chance. We were lucky that Ganzi had a kryptonite matchup which allowed a foreigner back on the throne, but who outside of Korea can take down Jjakji in a bo9?
On January 27 2012 22:43 msjakofsky wrote: maybe kas or thorzain could beat him. but zerg or protoss? i don't think so
Kas would definitely have a chance but he already played not too long ago and lost to Ganzi. Not sure what IPL's policy on repeat challengers is. I think they'd be more inclined to have new players each time.
On January 27 2012 22:43 msjakofsky wrote: maybe kas or thorzain could beat him. but zerg or protoss? i don't think so
Kas would definitely have a chance but he already played not too long ago and lost to Ganzi. Not sure what IPL's policy on repeat challengers is. I think they'd be more inclined to have new players each time.
Yeah, I would have loved to see Kas next, but since he played already I'd rather have Thorzain, Stephano or IdrA if Jjakji wins it, because they never played here and it would be interesting to see how they match up against someone like Jjakji.
Thorzain's best matchup is probably TvT while it's Jjakjis weakest so the games could be quite close, Stephano still has an air of mysteriousness surrounding him when he plays and you never know what he's going to do and if the opponent has an answer for it. And IdrA, I'm just really curious if he could pull off a better showing than he did against Taeja in the ESV showmatch in his proclaimed best matchup and Jjakji is one of the coolest Korean players you could have a showmatch against, because he's relatively new to the fame and still much more unknown than players who've been in the spotlight for a long time, so his play is also still quite unexplored and it's easier for him to surprise the viewers and his opponents.
If Nerchio wins, of course, we probably won't see a ZvZ showmatch, although I really wouldn't mind, but I guess IGN wants to retain their viewer base.
On January 27 2012 04:29 fcgog wrote: that's a tad unfair for nerchio going against the best tvz in the world
It might be, but he does not have to play MMA or MVP, so what has that comment to do with this thread?
Jjakji beat Leenock, while both Mvp and MMA failed in taking him down (also IMHappy's 89% winrate in vZ)
So because Jjakji beat Leenock and Mvp and MMA lost to Leenock, Jjakji has better TvZ? I understand where you are coming from but I cannot disagree more. That sort of comparison is not very accurate.
Dunno why people are writing off Nerchio for a cross server ZvT, especially given he doesn't even play a common style in the match up. looking forward to it personally =)
Nerchio is not to be underestimated, even tho he seems to be slumping for past few weeks. But a top form Nerchio could give us a great serie. hell yeah IPL <3
On January 27 2012 04:29 fcgog wrote: that's a tad unfair for nerchio going against the best tvz in the world
It might be, but he does not have to play MMA or MVP, so what has that comment to do with this thread?
Jjakji beat Leenock, while both Mvp and MMA failed in taking him down (also IMHappy's 89% winrate in vZ)
So because Jjakji beat Leenock and Mvp and MMA lost to Leenock, Jjakji has better TvZ? I understand where you are coming from but I cannot disagree more. That sort of comparison is not very accurate.
Where did you see me saying that? I think they are about equal.
Don't insult other countries, it's ignorant and unnecessary.
On topic: Nerchio is very impressive and I would have a hard time believing he could win but think about it, MVP and Nestea lost games to Naniwa so anything can happen.
On January 27 2012 23:23 frucisky wrote: Stephano's and maybe Dimaga are the only Zergs that could potentially beat Jjakji. This will be a slaughter imo
Jjakki was one of the very few players in Korea Stephano coulnt beat. However the matches was amasing. close and very intence but still stephano is down 0-3 to Jjakji
On January 27 2012 04:29 fcgog wrote: that's a tad unfair for nerchio going against the best tvz in the world
It might be, but he does not have to play MMA or MVP, so what has that comment to do with this thread?
Jjakji beat Leenock, while both Mvp and MMA failed in taking him down (also IMHappy's 89% winrate in vZ)
Mvp and MMA's style were much more known at the time, allowing Leenock to study them and devise strategies designed to stopping everything they throw at him. Jjakji, on the other hand, was less known, especially in the TvZ matchup, and had a whole week to study Leenock's playstyle and preferences while Leenock didn't know that much about Jjakji and how he plays (macro, harassment/aggressive or likes all-in etc).
I'm sure if you put Mvp or MMA against Leenock in a finals and gave them a week to prepare, they'd be much more motivated and would stand a better chance of taking down Leenock than meeting him in a semi-final/group stage.
On January 27 2012 04:29 fcgog wrote: that's a tad unfair for nerchio going against the best tvz in the world
It might be, but he does not have to play MMA or MVP, so what has that comment to do with this thread?
Jjakji beat Leenock, while both Mvp and MMA failed in taking him down (also IMHappy's 89% winrate in vZ)
Mvp and MMA's style were much more known at the time, allowing Leenock to study them and devise strategies designed to stopping everything they throw at him. Jjakji, on the other hand, was less known, especially in the TvZ matchup, and had a whole week to study Leenock's playstyle and preferences while Leenock didn't know that much about Jjakji and how he plays (macro, harassment/aggressive or likes all-in etc).
I'm sure if you put Mvp or MMA against Leenock in a finals and gave them a week to prepare, they'd be much more motivated and would stand a better chance of taking down Leenock than meeting him in a semi-final/group stage.
What you know about a player != what Korean pros know about another Korean pro. Leenock and his coaches likely had a pretty good grasp on Jjakji's typical playstyle because he's been known to be good in practice for quite a while (his coach said he was a player to look out for in that initial NSH house video Artosis did lol).
MVP also got something like 4 days to prepare for his semi-final against Leenock, and they both came from Providence, so it was totally even footing. MVP & MMA are undoubtedly more accomplished players, and any ranking should currently put them above Jjakji, but based on the recent TvZ's they've played Jjakji seems the strongest. Didn't he even say after the November semi's that he doesn't really lose to zerg?
Basically, the guy is sick good. If Nerchio can take this it'd be pretty shocking.
On January 27 2012 04:29 fcgog wrote: that's a tad unfair for nerchio going against the best tvz in the world
It might be, but he does not have to play MMA or MVP, so what has that comment to do with this thread?
Jjakji beat Leenock, while both Mvp and MMA failed in taking him down (also IMHappy's 89% winrate in vZ)
Mvp and MMA's style were much more known at the time, allowing Leenock to study them and devise strategies designed to stopping everything they throw at him. Jjakji, on the other hand, was less known, especially in the TvZ matchup, and had a whole week to study Leenock's playstyle and preferences while Leenock didn't know that much about Jjakji and how he plays (macro, harassment/aggressive or likes all-in etc).
I'm sure if you put Mvp or MMA against Leenock in a finals and gave them a week to prepare, they'd be much more motivated and would stand a better chance of taking down Leenock than meeting him in a semi-final/group stage.
What you know about a player != what Korean pros know about another Korean pro. Leenock and his coaches likely had a pretty good grasp on Jjakji's typical playstyle because he's been known to be good in practice for quite a while (his coach said he was a player to look out for in that initial NSH house video Artosis did lol).
MVP also got something like 4 days to prepare for his semi-final against Leenock, and they both came from Providence, so it was totally even footing. MVP & MMA are undoubtedly more accomplished players, and any ranking should currently put them above Jjakji, but based on the recent TvZ's they've played Jjakji seems the strongest. Didn't he even say after the November semi's that he doesn't really lose to zerg?
Basically, the guy is sick good. If Nerchio can take this it'd be pretty shocking.
yeah i agree. we're not talking about a foreigner terran. Jjakji's tvz seems just too solid for any foreigner zerg to beat him. i would be surprised if nerchio takes even one game (if jjakji takes the thing seriously even a bit).
On January 27 2012 04:29 fcgog wrote: that's a tad unfair for nerchio going against the best tvz in the world
It might be, but he does not have to play MMA or MVP, so what has that comment to do with this thread?
Jjakji beat Leenock, while both Mvp and MMA failed in taking him down (also IMHappy's 89% winrate in vZ)
Mvp and MMA's style were much more known at the time, allowing Leenock to study them and devise strategies designed to stopping everything they throw at him. Jjakji, on the other hand, was less known, especially in the TvZ matchup, and had a whole week to study Leenock's playstyle and preferences while Leenock didn't know that much about Jjakji and how he plays (macro, harassment/aggressive or likes all-in etc).
I'm sure if you put Mvp or MMA against Leenock in a finals and gave them a week to prepare, they'd be much more motivated and would stand a better chance of taking down Leenock than meeting him in a semi-final/group stage.
What you know about a player != what Korean pros know about another Korean pro. Leenock and his coaches likely had a pretty good grasp on Jjakji's typical playstyle because he's been known to be good in practice for quite a while (his coach said he was a player to look out for in that initial NSH house video Artosis did lol).
MVP also got something like 4 days to prepare for his semi-final against Leenock, and they both came from Providence, so it was totally even footing. MVP & MMA are undoubtedly more accomplished players, and any ranking should currently put them above Jjakji, but based on the recent TvZ's they've played Jjakji seems the strongest. Didn't he even say after the November semi's that he doesn't really lose to zerg?
Basically, the guy is sick good. If Nerchio can take this it'd be pretty shocking.
I'm not saying he isn't good, but to consider him above MMA/Mvp in TvZ because he was able to beat Leenock once is a bit far fetched.
On January 27 2012 04:29 fcgog wrote: that's a tad unfair for nerchio going against the best tvz in the world
It might be, but he does not have to play MMA or MVP, so what has that comment to do with this thread?
Jjakji beat Leenock, while both Mvp and MMA failed in taking him down (also IMHappy's 89% winrate in vZ)
Mvp and MMA's style were much more known at the time, allowing Leenock to study them and devise strategies designed to stopping everything they throw at him. Jjakji, on the other hand, was less known, especially in the TvZ matchup, and had a whole week to study Leenock's playstyle and preferences while Leenock didn't know that much about Jjakji and how he plays (macro, harassment/aggressive or likes all-in etc).
I'm sure if you put Mvp or MMA against Leenock in a finals and gave them a week to prepare, they'd be much more motivated and would stand a better chance of taking down Leenock than meeting him in a semi-final/group stage.
What you know about a player != what Korean pros know about another Korean pro. Leenock and his coaches likely had a pretty good grasp on Jjakji's typical playstyle because he's been known to be good in practice for quite a while (his coach said he was a player to look out for in that initial NSH house video Artosis did lol).
MVP also got something like 4 days to prepare for his semi-final against Leenock, and they both came from Providence, so it was totally even footing. MVP & MMA are undoubtedly more accomplished players, and any ranking should currently put them above Jjakji, but based on the recent TvZ's they've played Jjakji seems the strongest. Didn't he even say after the November semi's that he doesn't really lose to zerg?
Basically, the guy is sick good. If Nerchio can take this it'd be pretty shocking.
I'm not saying he isn't good, but to consider him above MMA/Mvp in TvZ because he was able to beat Leenock once is a bit far fetched.
imo there is no direct causailty. you can consider him above mma/mvp but not simply just because he beat leenock. rather because you watch him play and have an overall feel about his ability. all of that is subjective of course. all3 of them are top notch in the matchup, and people tend to bias cuz they like the person/style. noone is arguing about achievements, mma/mvp have more than jjakji that's obvious,
Well, the only way Nerchio is going to take this really is if Jjakji does not prepare in any way, as Nerchio has a very specific and unorthodox ZvT involving heavy roach usage. I think Jjakji might lose 1 or 2 games because of lack of knowlege but I would not be surprised if he adapts to the style quickly and after some mistakes proceeds to taking 5 games straight off Nerchio. I love him and he is from my home country, but Jjakji won Code S :/
Last IPL fight club the two casters were hyping this one up as "insane". I doubt they would be so enthusiastic about these games if it was a 5-0 or 5-1 in Jjakji's favour.
I suspect at least 5-2, maybe 5-3. Nerchio still doesn't have a hope in hell of winning, but they could be good games anyway.
On January 28 2012 22:50 SeaSwift wrote: Last IPL fight club the two casters were hyping this one up as "insane". I doubt they would be so enthusiastic about these games if it was a 5-0 or 5-1 in Jjakji's favour.
I suspect at least 5-2, maybe 5-3. Nerchio still doesn't have a hope in hell of winning, but they could be good games anyway.
donno i personally still find the MVP vs Top gsl finals insane and MVP pretty much destroyed Top there, so that's not a clear assumtion what you're saying
On January 27 2012 03:59 MangoMountain wrote: IPL never ceases to amaze me with the caliber of players they manage to get in on these showmatches.
Well look at the prizepool.
And I think people are REALLY underestimating Nerchio. He is one of the best-foreign zergs, only person that I think is better than him is probably Stephano. Some people forget the huge amount of tournaments he's won.
Gogo Nerchio, should be an easy win for you.
Edit: 83 medals in TLPD just for reference.
We heard the same story at home story before nerchio played MC. Then MC proceeded to stomp nerchio without even breaking a sweat.
On January 27 2012 03:59 MangoMountain wrote: IPL never ceases to amaze me with the caliber of players they manage to get in on these showmatches.
Well look at the prizepool.
And I think people are REALLY underestimating Nerchio. He is one of the best-foreign zergs, only person that I think is better than him is probably Stephano. Some people forget the huge amount of tournaments he's won.
Gogo Nerchio, should be an easy win for you.
Edit: 83 medals in TLPD just for reference.
We heard the same story at home story before nerchio played MC. Then MC proceeded to stomp nerchio without even breaking a sweat.
well ZvP is nerchios worst matchup by far tho
And MC is the best Protoss in the world, and punished Nerchio with his PvZ which MC went back to Korea and solved just before going to HSC. Also, for the comparison with Stephano further up the quote train, Stephano has also never taken a single map off of MC.
Using MC as a reference point to show how bad Nerchio is in a completely difference matchup against a different style of player is not very useful.
Nerchio won. Feel free to hype. Super foreigners are the elephant in the room. Can't take GSL Code S seriously until they have top 200 foreigners in their league.
On January 29 2012 03:01 Sawry wrote: If you click the spoiler, you'll be mad. + Show Spoiler +
Nerchio won. Feel free to hype. Super foreigners are the elephant in the room. Can't take GSL Code S seriously until they have top 200 foreigners in their league.
On January 29 2012 03:01 Sawry wrote: If you click the spoiler, you'll be mad. + Show Spoiler +
Nerchio won. Feel free to hype. Super foreigners are the elephant in the room. Can't take GSL Code S seriously until they have top 200 foreigners in their league.
Too bad that this was played ONLINE. Which means nothing really.
On January 29 2012 03:01 Sawry wrote: If you click the spoiler, you'll be mad. + Show Spoiler +
Nerchio won. Feel free to hype. Super foreigners are the elephant in the room. Can't take GSL Code S seriously until they have top 200 foreigners in their league.
I highly doubt you have a reputable source to this. For instance, englighten me on the score...
On January 29 2012 03:01 Sawry wrote: If you click the spoiler, you'll be mad. + Show Spoiler +
Nerchio won. Feel free to hype. Super foreigners are the elephant in the room. Can't take GSL Code S seriously until they have top 200 foreigners in their league.
On January 29 2012 03:23 GenesisX wrote: lol @ above... successful troll is successful -.-
Yeah except it accomplishes nothing other than trolling. For which he should receive a warning or temp. ban. His post brings nothing into the discussion.
OK nvm, just went over his post history - very few quality posts
On January 29 2012 03:01 Sawry wrote: If you click the spoiler, you'll be mad. + Show Spoiler +
Nerchio won. Feel free to hype. Super foreigners are the elephant in the room. Can't take GSL Code S seriously until they have top 200 foreigners in their league.
Source?
I'll post a source for him:
Thanks, Asha also sent me the link via PM. Better edit that out though so the results aren't spoiled.
On January 29 2012 03:01 Sawry wrote: If you click the spoiler, you'll be mad. + Show Spoiler +
Nerchio won. Feel free to hype. Super foreigners are the elephant in the room. Can't take GSL Code S seriously until they have top 200 foreigners in their league.
Source?
I'll post a source for him:
Thanks, Asha also sent me the link via PM. Better edit that out though so the results aren't spoiled.
Because keeping his quoted message unedited does not spoil anything, right?
He didn't added the results when he quoted me. I also used a double spoiler for the source to make sure people don't accidentally see it.
User A says: P User B says: source plz User C says: here is source S for user A which proves P, result is X as we can see in the source User D says:omg omg hide S, hide X
Final result: "here is source [edited out] for A which proves P" Spoiler is still there, unless I got something wrong among edits and subject changes.
User A says: P User B says: source plz User C says: here is source S for user A which proves P, result is X as we can see in the source User D says:omg omg hide S, hide X
Final result: "here is source [edited out] for A which proves P" Spoiler is still there, unless I got something wrong among edits and subject changes.
User A says: P User B says: source plz User C says: here is source S for user A which proves P, result is X as we can see in the source User D says:omg omg hide S, hide X
Final result: "here is source [edited out] for A which proves P" Spoiler is still there, unless I got something wrong among edits and subject changes.
The troll said that player A won. cyclone said "I will post the source for him", then edited out the source and the message; the message still appears in some of your following posts, and that particular phrasing seems to suggest that the troll was right. Of course, I might have gotten something wrong in the edit galore, but I would still advise you to edit cyclone's message in your quotes.
On January 29 2012 05:37 Seraphone wrote: Should be a perma ban imo for spoiling an online event yet to be broadcast.
He did not spoil anything, just a troll. I doubt he has any insider info, and was just making stuff up. Either way, should be disciplined with a ban.
Even if he's bullshitting it still spoils the viewing experience for people because you can't 100% know he's not.
This fact brings a fresh air to this series, because earlier we all felt Jjakji will win almost 100%. Now, after a troll post, it's reset and nothing is that clear. Me myself can't wait to see this series more than ever before
Edit: Something struck me as wery veird: What if that troll is an IPL secret agent and he made that post to bring more electricity and excitement, thus luring more viewers?
User A says: P User B says: source plz User C says: here is source S for user A which proves P, result is X as we can see in the source User D says:omg omg hide S, hide X
Final result: "here is source [edited out] for A which proves P" Spoiler is still there, unless I got something wrong among edits and subject changes.
The troll said that player A won. cyclone said "I will post the source for him", then edited out the source and the message; the message still appears in some of your following posts, and that particular phrasing seems to suggest that the troll was right. Of course, I might have gotten something wrong in the edit galore, but I would still advise you to edit cyclone's message in your quotes.
"User A" posted a result. I posted a source for the match result, but that doesn't mean my source agrees with his result. I'm not gonna say if that guy was a troll or not, because that will also spoil the result.
On January 27 2012 03:59 MangoMountain wrote: IPL never ceases to amaze me with the caliber of players they manage to get in on these showmatches.
Well look at the prizepool.
And I think people are REALLY underestimating Nerchio. He is one of the best-foreign zergs, only person that I think is better than him is probably Stephano. Some people forget the huge amount of tournaments he's won.
Gogo Nerchio, should be an easy win for you.
Edit: 83 medals in TLPD just for reference.
Did you somehow forget that Jjakji is a GSL Champion? "Best foreign player" (which isn't even Nerchio as you mentioned) and Jjakji are on two different levels. It doesn't matter how many medals Nerchio has in online tournaments or LANs without any Koreans, because Jjakji won THE tournament and that's all that matters. Thinking that Nerchio will win seems a bit ludicrous to me, but to think that it will be easy?
On January 29 2012 05:37 Seraphone wrote: Should be a perma ban imo for spoiling an online event yet to be broadcast.
He did not spoil anything, just a troll. I doubt he has any insider info, and was just making stuff up. Either way, should be disciplined with a ban.
+1 to this. Anyone can post a random smug guess to incite and flame us. If he happens to be right in guessing the player who won, it doesn't mean he knew all along. It still means that he went out of his way to be a jerk though (whether or not he actually knew).
I never take those spoilered Player X Wins seriously.
I love how jjakjji (or jickyjacky as i still read) attends in all those little showmatches even though he is the.defending gsl champion. Mvp or nestea would never do that, to not reveal strategies or whatever reason..
On January 29 2012 08:57 Heimatloser wrote: I love how jjakjji (or jickyjacky as i still read) attends in all those little showmatches even though he is the.defending gsl champion. Mvp or nestea would never do that, to not reveal strategies or whatever reason..
That is why I love Mc more than MVP and Nestea although Mc is winning less than them.
On January 29 2012 08:57 Heimatloser wrote: I love how jjakjji (or jickyjacky as i still read) attends in all those little showmatches even though he is the.defending gsl champion. Mvp or nestea would never do that, to not reveal strategies or whatever reason..
To be fair, NesTea and MVP have already made much, much more money, and NSHS is like one of the poorest teams out there, so it's kinda understandable that he wants to earn a little something on the side.
That's probably why they take team leagues so seriously, too.
On January 29 2012 05:37 Seraphone wrote: Should be a perma ban imo for spoiling an online event yet to be broadcast.
He did not spoil anything, just a troll. I doubt he has any insider info, and was just making stuff up. Either way, should be disciplined with a ban.
+1 to this. Anyone can post a random smug guess to incite and flame us. If he happens to be right in guessing the player who won, it doesn't mean he knew all along. It still means that he went out of his way to be a jerk though (whether or not he actually knew).
I never take those spoilered Player X Wins seriously.
Except someone then immedietly posted below linking a source (which they edited out, but it still seems to agree with the "trolls" post)
On January 29 2012 08:57 Heimatloser wrote: I love how jjakjji (or jickyjacky as i still read) attends in all those little showmatches even though he is the.defending gsl champion. Mvp or nestea would never do that, to not reveal strategies or whatever reason..
That is why I love Mc more than MVP and Nestea although Mc is winning less than them.
Ever since mcs match against marineking and even more after his finals vs july im an antifan, but i know what you mean.
Off topic side note: july is, out of the few bw-medal owning switchers, the one who made the biggest impact.
On January 29 2012 05:37 Seraphone wrote: Should be a perma ban imo for spoiling an online event yet to be broadcast.
He did not spoil anything, just a troll. I doubt he has any insider info, and was just making stuff up. Either way, should be disciplined with a ban.
+1 to this. Anyone can post a random smug guess to incite and flame us. If he happens to be right in guessing the player who won, it doesn't mean he knew all along. It still means that he went out of his way to be a jerk though (whether or not he actually knew).
I never take those spoilered Player X Wins seriously.
Except someone then immedietly posted below linking a source (which they edited out, but it still seems to agree with the "trolls" post)
On January 29 2012 10:22 CosmicSpiral wrote: Remember that Jjakji is best when he has adequate time to prepare for a match. A long BO9 doesn't play to his strengths.
yeah that's why he did well in the KSL oh nvm... just stop saying X player does well when it's obviously not true.
On January 29 2012 10:22 CosmicSpiral wrote: Remember that Jjakji is best when he has adequate time to prepare for a match. A long BO9 doesn't play to his strengths.
I don't know how you come to this conclusion. He's done really well in Korean Weeklys and GSTL. Which is all he's played outside of GSL.
This really seems like a completely different player to the Jjakji we see in GSL. Got to be lag.
Wouldn't Nerchio also be lagging, since he is playing from Europe? Stop saying lag is causing one player to play poorly, sheesh. Sometimes one player just outplays the other.
On January 29 2012 10:22 CosmicSpiral wrote: Remember that Jjakji is best when he has adequate time to prepare for a match. A long BO9 doesn't play to his strengths.
yeah that's why he did well in the KSL oh nvm... just stop saying X player does well when it's obviously not true.
He did so well he managed to lose to two Code B Protosses. XD
On January 29 2012 10:22 CosmicSpiral wrote: Remember that Jjakji is best when he has adequate time to prepare for a match. A long BO9 doesn't play to his strengths.
I don't know how you come to this conclusion. He's done really well in Korean Weeklys and GSTL. Which is all he's played outside of GSL.
This really seems like a completely different player to the Jjakji we see in GSL. Got to be lag.
I said best, not only. Shockingly enough many GSL players look far better when they have weeks to study and plan builds against an individual opponent. Jjakji probably did neither for a single showmatch when he has GSL and GSTL to worry about.
If you watch the KSL then you know how sloppy Korean players can get.
On January 29 2012 10:25 Azhrei16 wrote: Wouldn't Nerchio also be lagging, since he is playing from Europe? Stop saying lag is causing one player to play poorly, sheesh. Sometimes one player just outplays the other.
Nerchio played poorly too. The 9 o'clock hatch wasn't cancelled twice. It's just that this game wasn't a high lvl TvZ game from neither player. And Jjakji played horrible no matter what Nerchio did.
On January 29 2012 10:25 Azhrei16 wrote: Wouldn't Nerchio also be lagging, since he is playing from Europe? Stop saying lag is causing one player to play poorly, sheesh. Sometimes one player just outplays the other.
Nerchio outplays JJakjji? Do you believe your own words? :D
On January 29 2012 10:26 Taktik wrote: Isnt there lag from EU -> NA as well? Nerchio's fungals did landed quite well.. so..
It really just depends on your personal internet connection. So some Koreans teams have an okay-ish connection, some have to go to a PC bang to play in foreign tournaments because the lag is so bad.
EU > NA lag is nothing at all from the UK. Like 100ms for me. But who knows about Nerchio's house in Poland.
Jjakji lost too many tanks to infestor play, and T really has to invest heavily replenishing the tank count and if Zerg uses this opportunity to get broods, it can be quite hard for the Terran. Small marauder hit squads are really useful against infestors.
On January 29 2012 10:25 Azhrei16 wrote: Wouldn't Nerchio also be lagging, since he is playing from Europe? Stop saying lag is causing one player to play poorly, sheesh. Sometimes one player just outplays the other.
no it wouldnt lag for nerchio if game was hosted on eu
On January 29 2012 10:25 Azhrei16 wrote: Wouldn't Nerchio also be lagging, since he is playing from Europe? Stop saying lag is causing one player to play poorly, sheesh. Sometimes one player just outplays the other.
no it wouldnt lag for nerchio if game was hosted on eu
Games were played on NA, which is imo the best choice.
On January 29 2012 10:25 Azhrei16 wrote: Wouldn't Nerchio also be lagging, since he is playing from Europe? Stop saying lag is causing one player to play poorly, sheesh. Sometimes one player just outplays the other.
no it wouldnt lag for nerchio if game was hosted on eu
On January 29 2012 10:25 Azhrei16 wrote: Wouldn't Nerchio also be lagging, since he is playing from Europe? Stop saying lag is causing one player to play poorly, sheesh. Sometimes one player just outplays the other.
in TvZ lag is harder to deal for the T than the Z :/
But Nerchio "special tactics" catch off guard unsused T ^^
On January 29 2012 10:24 Noocta wrote: WoW Impressive first game by Nerchio. Like really impressive.
Fu, I missed it TT
Standard Nerchio's infestor play (and balzy 2raxes cross pos Tal'Darim from Jajkji) vs an horrible Jjakji (did you see his mineral go over 500 in the GSL before he maxes? 1k at 120ish food here ...)
You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
On January 29 2012 10:33 MrCon wrote: This double reactor play usually die if the zerg commit to his roaches.
Definitely feels like Jjakji doesn't have much idea about Nerchio. Roach play is pretty much standard for him and this just isn't exactly good against it.
On January 29 2012 10:34 AzoriuS wrote: You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
you watch the game? It was just sub par even for a foreigner terran.
On January 29 2012 10:34 AzoriuS wrote: You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
I love the guys who live in a dreamland where lag doesn't exist. There's a reason guys like Huk, Jinro, Idra and Naniwa have just flat out refused to play online tournaments because of the lag.
On January 29 2012 10:34 AzoriuS wrote: You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
you watch the game? It was just sub par even for a foreigner terran.
On January 29 2012 10:34 AzoriuS wrote: You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
because jjakji played super sloppy, if they both played a solid game, and nerchio won, props to him, but the sloppiness of jjakji was shown pretty boldly
On January 29 2012 10:38 Chicane wrote: I love these drops... so fun to watch, and so good! :O
It really switches things up when it is the zerg dropping Terrans and not the other way around. Fun to watch, especially if zerg's drop management is good.
On January 29 2012 10:40 Noocta wrote: Perhaps not the best idea to Mech against Nerchio, the only europezn zerg who constantly beat Goody and know how to break mech like nothing.
I doubt Jjakji knows that though. Great play from nerchio though!
On January 29 2012 10:34 AzoriuS wrote: You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
I love the guys who live in a dreamland where lag doesn't exist. There's a reason guys like Huk, Jinro, Idra and Naniwa have just flat out refused to play online tournaments because of the lag.
I love how you say that Jjakji is going to win somewhere around 5-1 or 5-2 when you know he is playing for the korean server...
On January 27 2012 07:04 Seraphone wrote: Jjakji is obviously going to win this but I think Nerchio will take a game or two. It's pretty hard to win a best of 9 without losing a single game.
And then when Nerchio plays well you just fall back on the lag issue. You're just making yourself look like an idiot. You are saying...
On January 29 2012 10:34 AzoriuS wrote: You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
I love the guys who live in a dreamland where lag doesn't exist.
Oh? You mean, yourself? You predicted Jjakji easily winning when you knew he was playing from Korea, but NOW it is a valid excuse? Come on. Either you think it isn't a big enough issue that Jjakji can crush him anyway, or you shouldn't have made such a prediction (and then get defensive about it with the following comments) if you apparently knew it was an issue.
yeah nerchio fought so often against the only person able to play mech, not chance with mech against him. Thought Jjakji would have better cards, since nerchio always seemed not to strong against the korean play, but Jjakji has a non standard playstyle, so i didn't knew who would win, but i was sure the first maps would look good for only one player.
Well, I admit that I predicted that Jjakji would dominate Nerchio, and while this series is long from over, I will admit that I appear to have been mistaken again. Well played Nerchio
IPL Fight Club: Where even top Koreans are mortal.
On January 29 2012 10:46 Bagration wrote: Well, I admit that I predicted that Jjakji would dominate Nerchio, and while this series is long from over, I will admit that I appear to have been mistaken again. Well played Nerchio
IPL Fight Club: Where even top Koreans are mortal.
More like IPL: Where koreans play with massive amounts of lag. At least a 2 second delay. Imagine trying to micro bio vs. zerg with 2 seconds of delay. No wonder jjakji decided to go mech, bio simply isn't viable when one can't micro. There's a reason why foreigners seem reasonably competitive in online events, then fall absolutely flat in lans, especially in korea.
On January 29 2012 10:46 Bagration wrote: Well, I admit that I predicted that Jjakji would dominate Nerchio, and while this series is long from over, I will admit that I appear to have been mistaken again. Well played Nerchio
IPL Fight Club: Where even top Koreans are mortal.
Hah yup, I predicted something similar. I predicted 5-3 in favor of Jjakji (which still might happen), but Nerchio is playing quite well and Jjakji isn't looking the strongest.
On January 29 2012 10:34 AzoriuS wrote: You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
I love the guys who live in a dreamland where lag doesn't exist. There's a reason guys like Huk, Jinro, Idra and Naniwa have just flat out refused to play online tournaments because of the lag.
I love how you say that Jjakji is going to win somewhere around 5-1 or 5-2 when you know he is playing for the korean server...
On January 27 2012 07:04 Seraphone wrote: Jjakji is obviously going to win this but I think Nerchio will take a game or two. It's pretty hard to win a best of 9 without losing a single game.
And then when Nerchio plays well you just fall back on the lag issue. You're just making yourself look like an idiot. You are saying...
On January 29 2012 10:34 AzoriuS wrote: You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
I love the guys who live in a dreamland where lag doesn't exist.
Oh? You mean, yourself? You predicted Jjakji easily winning when you knew he was playing from Korea, but NOW it is a valid excuse? Come on. Either you think it isn't a big enough issue that Jjakji can crush him anyway, or you shouldn't have made such a prediction (and then get defensive about it with the following comments) if you apparently knew it was an issue.
Oh you silly boy. Perhaps you would care to read the countless comments from pro's on the topic who state that A) Lag is very different depending on which pro house you're playing from and B) The lag is really unpredictable, some days it will be okay and others it's borderline unplayable.
For example everyone knows the IM house has unplayable lag to the extent Nestea won't play online and Fenix refused to play NASL 2 after a few rounds.
OGS on the other hand is regarded as having one of the better connections.
On January 29 2012 10:47 snakeeyez wrote: There is no way to beat infestor,corruptor brood lord without ghosts. Even with ghosts its just a matter of fungals hitting or not.
...what? I've seen split vikings deal with it wonderfully.
Come on Jjakji, turn it around. If you lose I know there are going to be those 1-2 posters that will spam nothing but "Nechio best ZvT on the planet" for the next two weeks.
On a side note. I'm suprised how many people seem to think Jjakji has the best TvZ in the world after only one series
On January 29 2012 10:46 Bagration wrote: Well, I admit that I predicted that Jjakji would dominate Nerchio, and while this series is long from over, I will admit that I appear to have been mistaken again. Well played Nerchio
IPL Fight Club: Where even top Koreans are mortal.
More like IPL: Where koreans play with massive amounts of lag. At least a 2 second delay.
lol
Don't forget he's jet-lagged, tired, sick and plays with one hand on his back while sage tickles his feet with a feather.
On January 29 2012 10:34 AzoriuS wrote: You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
Have you been watching this game? Nerchio is playing well, but Jjakji is seriously under performing. If it isn't the lag, would you please explain to me why these games are happening like this? Watch Jjakji's games in GSL, GSTL, even the ESV Weekly tournaments; all his moves are spot on, his control near perfect, and everything just falls into place. Right now it looks super sloppy like it's a completely different player. Lag is really altering this game, were they to play at a LAN/offline event this wouldn't even be close.
Also, I kind of disagree with DoA about double reactor Hellion. I think that if you wind up going mech afterwards (especially if you get that early armory for the upgrades) then your tech isn't that far behind. If you decide to go bio then you are behind but that's also a stupid build order to do.
On January 29 2012 10:34 AzoriuS wrote: You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
I love the guys who live in a dreamland where lag doesn't exist. There's a reason guys like Huk, Jinro, Idra and Naniwa have just flat out refused to play online tournaments because of the lag.
I love how you say that Jjakji is going to win somewhere around 5-1 or 5-2 when you know he is playing for the korean server...
On January 27 2012 07:04 Seraphone wrote: Jjakji is obviously going to win this but I think Nerchio will take a game or two. It's pretty hard to win a best of 9 without losing a single game.
And then when Nerchio plays well you just fall back on the lag issue. You're just making yourself look like an idiot. You are saying...
On January 29 2012 10:36 Seraphone wrote:
On January 29 2012 10:34 AzoriuS wrote: You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
I love the guys who live in a dreamland where lag doesn't exist.
Oh? You mean, yourself? You predicted Jjakji easily winning when you knew he was playing from Korea, but NOW it is a valid excuse? Come on. Either you think it isn't a big enough issue that Jjakji can crush him anyway, or you shouldn't have made such a prediction (and then get defensive about it with the following comments) if you apparently knew it was an issue.
Oh you silly boy. Perhaps you would care to read the countless comments from pro's on the topic who state that A) Lag is very different depending on which pro house you're playing from and B) The lag is really unpredictable, some days it will be okay and others it's borderline unplayable.
For example everyone knows the IM house has unplayable lag to the extent Nestea won't play online and Fenix refused to play NASL 2 after a few rounds.
OGS on the other hand is regarded as having one of the better connections.
"Silly boy"? If you are going to make an argument, make an argument and do not resort to ad hominem attacks.
Okay but then the mass of corruptor kills the split vikings more easily when they are in smaller number and you can not kite with split vikings. Its all theory crafting but infestor brood lord corruptor is extremely powerful if not unbalanced.
I think everyone needs to realize that yeah, Jjakji won a GSL championship. Lost to MVP but still advanced from his group, then beat two protoss and Leenock. This guy hasn't been around the scene for that long and we haven't gotten to see him play a ton of games, he could just be a flash in the pan. Never know. Plus Nerchio had one of the highest win rates in Starcraft II as of 2011.
well i knew nerchio was a strong player but DUDE he has been shredding jjakji i mean we kinda expected jjakji the code S champ (who had an epic TvZ match agaisnt leenock) to kinda win this game but i guess MMA is the true TvZ expert T_T jjakji com'on pull through even if u lose plz give us some tottaly epic kick ass games I mean IPL did say this series was epic
Pretty terrible play from both sides tbh. Nerchio made so many hatcheries and so few drones he didn't have a bank after being maxed and having 6 bases. If MVP was playing mech, nerchio would have lost over 100 drones to hellions that game since his reaction time and defense was poor. Jjakji just run his units to die for most of the game. Why is the play quality so much lower than standard KR ladder streams?
more exuses. some of you guys just cant deal with reality. MC is playing toss afair and ZvP is Nerchio worst match up. Also Stephano is like 0-4 with MC. You mean Steph is crap too?
On January 29 2012 10:34 AzoriuS wrote: You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
I love the guys who live in a dreamland where lag doesn't exist. There's a reason guys like Huk, Jinro, Idra and Naniwa have just flat out refused to play online tournaments because of the lag.
I love how you say that Jjakji is going to win somewhere around 5-1 or 5-2 when you know he is playing for the korean server...
On January 27 2012 07:04 Seraphone wrote: Jjakji is obviously going to win this but I think Nerchio will take a game or two. It's pretty hard to win a best of 9 without losing a single game.
And then when Nerchio plays well you just fall back on the lag issue. You're just making yourself look like an idiot. You are saying...
On January 29 2012 10:36 Seraphone wrote:
On January 29 2012 10:34 AzoriuS wrote: You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
I love the guys who live in a dreamland where lag doesn't exist.
Oh? You mean, yourself? You predicted Jjakji easily winning when you knew he was playing from Korea, but NOW it is a valid excuse? Come on. Either you think it isn't a big enough issue that Jjakji can crush him anyway, or you shouldn't have made such a prediction (and then get defensive about it with the following comments) if you apparently knew it was an issue.
Oh you silly boy. Perhaps you would care to read the countless comments from pro's on the topic who state that A) Lag is very different depending on which pro house you're playing from and B) The lag is really unpredictable, some days it will be okay and others it's borderline unplayable.
For example everyone knows the IM house has unplayable lag to the extent Nestea won't play online and Fenix refused to play NASL 2 after a few rounds.
OGS on the other hand is regarded as having one of the better connections.
"Silly boy"? If you are going to make an argument, make an argument and do not resort to ad hominem attacks.
On January 29 2012 10:49 1Eris1 wrote: Come on Jjakji, turn it around. If you lose I know there are going to be those 1-2 posters that will spam nothing but "Nechio best ZvT on the planet" for the next two weeks.
On a side note. I'm suprised how many people seem to think Jjakji has the best TvZ in the world after only one series
But his play his really really good, he dismantled Zenio. Its is very methodical and he has great unit control and versatility.
What people need to understand is just like cross server events are good achievements (even with lag) it is not the main game type either player practices for.
On January 29 2012 10:46 McFeser wrote: How come Nerchio couldn't play this well against MC at HC4? He's doing really well.
I think ZvP is his worst matchup and the games were over pretty fast. If I remember correctly 2 losses were because he build his roach warren to late and died to mass zealots.
On January 29 2012 10:50 aintz wrote: hsc4 was lan and nerchio has nerve issues i think. he played terribly at hsc4 and just got rolled by mc.
dont know what jjajkji is doing. mech vs zerg is so bad, even when mvp does it he loses.
Since when is Mech vs Zerg bad? Jjakji controlled and reacted badly to what Nerchio is doing, but Mech vs Zerg is super strong. Once you reach 200/200 it can be near impossible to stop you.
Also, DoA "not as much innovation in the Korean scene." What on earth are you talking about? Have you heard about SlayerS? Sure you might not encounter SLush or KiWiKaKi style wacky builds on the Korean server, but Korean teams have been consistently pumping out the best strategies and seem to be consistently ahead.
On January 29 2012 10:46 Bagration wrote: Well, I admit that I predicted that Jjakji would dominate Nerchio, and while this series is long from over, I will admit that I appear to have been mistaken again. Well played Nerchio
IPL Fight Club: Where even top Koreans are mortal.
More like IPL: Where koreans play with massive amounts of lag. At least a 2 second delay.
lol
Don't forget he's jet-lagged, tired, sick and plays with one hand on his back while sage tickles his feet with a feather.
Lag is also why SlayerS will never win the Team Arena and IM will never win in the TAC.
On January 29 2012 10:34 AzoriuS wrote: You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
I love the guys who live in a dreamland where lag doesn't exist. There's a reason guys like Huk, Jinro, Idra and Naniwa have just flat out refused to play online tournaments because of the lag.
It looks like this showmatch for you and your friends is worthless because in your minds Nerchio already lost no matter what score will be at the end.
On January 29 2012 10:49 1Eris1 wrote: Come on Jjakji, turn it around. If you lose I know there are going to be those 1-2 posters that will spam nothing but "Nechio best ZvT on the planet" for the next two weeks.
On a side note. I'm suprised how many people seem to think Jjakji has the best TvZ in the world after only one series
But his play his really really good, he dismantled Zenio. Its is very methodical and he has great unit control and versatility.
On January 29 2012 10:34 AzoriuS wrote: You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
I love the guys who live in a dreamland where lag doesn't exist. There's a reason guys like Huk, Jinro, Idra and Naniwa have just flat out refused to play online tournaments because of the lag.
I love how you say that Jjakji is going to win somewhere around 5-1 or 5-2 when you know he is playing for the korean server...
On January 27 2012 07:04 Seraphone wrote: Jjakji is obviously going to win this but I think Nerchio will take a game or two. It's pretty hard to win a best of 9 without losing a single game.
And then when Nerchio plays well you just fall back on the lag issue. You're just making yourself look like an idiot. You are saying...
On January 29 2012 10:36 Seraphone wrote:
On January 29 2012 10:34 AzoriuS wrote: You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
I love the guys who live in a dreamland where lag doesn't exist.
Oh? You mean, yourself? You predicted Jjakji easily winning when you knew he was playing from Korea, but NOW it is a valid excuse? Come on. Either you think it isn't a big enough issue that Jjakji can crush him anyway, or you shouldn't have made such a prediction (and then get defensive about it with the following comments) if you apparently knew it was an issue.
Oh you silly boy. Perhaps you would care to read the countless comments from pro's on the topic who state that A) Lag is very different depending on which pro house you're playing from and B) The lag is really unpredictable, some days it will be okay and others it's borderline unplayable.
For example everyone knows the IM house has unplayable lag to the extent Nestea won't play online and Fenix refused to play NASL 2 after a few rounds.
OGS on the other hand is regarded as having one of the better connections.
"Silly boy"? If you are going to make an argument, make an argument and do not resort to ad hominem attacks.
Erm what?
When making an argument, it is very counter productive to begin by insulting the other person, as it makes them less receptive to your viewpoint. Just saying.
On January 29 2012 10:34 AzoriuS wrote: You all guys are very funny. Before the match you talk about crushing Nerchio. Now when he wins a game, you talk about lag and try to justify loss of Korean superstar.
I love the guys who live in a dreamland where lag doesn't exist. There's a reason guys like Huk, Jinro, Idra and Naniwa have just flat out refused to play online tournaments because of the lag.
It looks like this showmatch for you and your friends is worthless because in your minds Nerchio already lost no matter what score will be at the end.
The biggest loser is the viewer because we are denied a genuine match that we would get on LAN or with both players playing from the same place.
On January 29 2012 10:49 1Eris1 wrote: Come on Jjakji, turn it around. If you lose I know there are going to be those 1-2 posters that will spam nothing but "Nechio best ZvT on the planet" for the next two weeks.
On a side note. I'm suprised how many people seem to think Jjakji has the best TvZ in the world after only one series
But his play his really really good, he dismantled Zenio. Its is very methodical and he has great unit control and versatility.
Zenio's ZvT is pretty terrible, but I think that Jjakji's TvZ is super good. It's far from the best (that goes to either Mvp, MMA, or SuperNoVa) but it's really entertaining to watch. When he doesn't have to deal with this lag, he has some of the best bio control I've ever seen.
Also, anyone denying lag's role in this, those Hellions took 3 seconds in between their seeing the roaches and turning around. Jjakji is Code S. That doesn't happen if you're Code S.
On January 29 2012 10:49 1Eris1 wrote: Come on Jjakji, turn it around. If you lose I know there are going to be those 1-2 posters that will spam nothing but "Nechio best ZvT on the planet" for the next two weeks.
On a side note. I'm suprised how many people seem to think Jjakji has the best TvZ in the world after only one series
But his play his really really good, he dismantled Zenio. Its is very methodical and he has great unit control and versatility.
What people need to understand is just like cross server events are good achievements (even with lag) it is not the main game type either player practices for.
Obviously it's top tier quality, but I just don't understand how we put one great series > months and months of continued sucess in the MU. (MVP and MMA)
Also, using Zenio in an attempt to justify amazing TvZ isn't all that telling
From the results I could find, Jjakji is 6-4 against Zergs in the GSL. 0-2 Zenio, 2-0 Luvsic, 2-0 Lucky, 0-2 Leenock, 4-2 Leenock. That's it. Need to hold off before we can say this guy has "amazing!" TvZ.
Jjakji seems to be having a bad day (or suffering too much from the lag). He has never been the cleanest terran, but he is uncharacteristicly sloppy today.
On January 29 2012 11:00 Azhrei16 wrote: From the results I could find, Jjakji is 6-4 against Zergs in the GSL. 0-2 Zenio, 2-0 Luvsic, 2-0 Lucky, 0-2 Leenock, 4-2 Leenock. That's it. Need to hold off before we can say this guy has "amazing!" TvZ.
The Zenio game was from well over a year ago. Not really relevant.
Pretty bad build coming from nerchio, it really seemd like he just improvised and threw something at Jjakji, he'd been better of going completly all-in.
On January 29 2012 11:01 True_Spike wrote: No lag this game!
There was definitely still lag. Jjakji's micro was awful he just had too much stuff to lose. For example he didn't even micro his hellions at all in the big engagement.
On January 29 2012 10:37 StarVe wrote: Nerchio played too many games against Goody to fall to mech. :D
do you rly compare jakji to goody ? "the guy that gets supply block every 25 seconds and have 5/5 queue units in rax" even mc sad goody has horrible macro @ hsc
On January 29 2012 11:00 Azhrei16 wrote: From the results I could find, Jjakji is 6-4 against Zergs in the GSL. 0-2 Zenio, 2-0 Luvsic, 2-0 Lucky, 0-2 Leenock, 4-2 Leenock. That's it. Need to hold off before we can say this guy has "amazing!" TvZ.
The Zenio game was from well over a year ago. Not really relevant.
In the last few months he's shown fantastic TvZ.
Against who? I can't find complete results for him on Liquipedia. He 4-2'd Leenock, that's all I can see. After he was able to watch replays of Leenock beating MVP in a close series 3-2.
On January 29 2012 11:00 Azhrei16 wrote: From the results I could find, Jjakji is 6-4 against Zergs in the GSL. 0-2 Zenio, 2-0 Luvsic, 2-0 Lucky, 0-2 Leenock, 4-2 Leenock. That's it. Need to hold off before we can say this guy has "amazing!" TvZ.
That loss against Zenio was from a 2010 man back when he was a scrub.
Plus, he's one of the few terrans that was able to consistently spank Stephano on ladder. That's why Leenock said in an interview he considered Jjakji's TvZ on MVP's level due to ladder experiences Leenock had personally with the guy.
Besides, if anyone watched ESV weekly then they'll have realized that he is a sick player even before he all-killed FXO.
On January 29 2012 10:49 1Eris1 wrote: Come on Jjakji, turn it around. If you lose I know there are going to be those 1-2 posters that will spam nothing but "Nechio best ZvT on the planet" for the next two weeks.
On a side note. I'm suprised how many people seem to think Jjakji has the best TvZ in the world after only one series
But his play his really really good, he dismantled Zenio. Its is very methodical and he has great unit control and versatility.
What people need to understand is just like cross server events are good achievements (even with lag) it is not the main game type either player practices for.
Obviously it's top tier quality, but I just don't understand how we put one great series > months and months of continued sucess in the MU. (MVP and MMA)
Also, using Zenio in an attempt to justify amazing TvZ isn't all that telling
There are not really any best XvX player except for Nestea ZvZ. Jjakji defiantly top 3 TvZ.
On January 29 2012 10:37 StarVe wrote: Nerchio played too many games against Goody to fall to mech. :D
do you rly compare jakji to goody ? "the guy that gets supply block every 25 seconds and have 5/5 queue units in rax" even mc sad goody has horrible macro @ hsc
appearantly goody's mech play is at least as good as jjakji's so... why not?
On January 29 2012 11:00 Azhrei16 wrote: From the results I could find, Jjakji is 6-4 against Zergs in the GSL. 0-2 Zenio, 2-0 Luvsic, 2-0 Lucky, 0-2 Leenock, 4-2 Leenock. That's it. Need to hold off before we can say this guy has "amazing!" TvZ.
That loss against Zenio was from a 2010 man back when he was a scrub.
Plus, he's one of the few terrans that was able to consistently spank Stephano on ladder. That's why Leenock said in an interview he considered Jjakji's TvZ on MVP's level due to ladder experiences Leenock had personally with the guy.
Besides, if anyone watched ESV weekly then they'll have realized that he is a sick player even before he all-killed FXO.
Ah yeah I COMPLETELY forgot about the Korean Weekly. And I just got done watching some of his games on there also. My bad. I wasn't arguing, just wanted to know where people got around to saying his TvZ is amazing.
On January 29 2012 11:00 Azhrei16 wrote: From the results I could find, Jjakji is 6-4 against Zergs in the GSL. 0-2 Zenio, 2-0 Luvsic, 2-0 Lucky, 0-2 Leenock, 4-2 Leenock. That's it. Need to hold off before we can say this guy has "amazing!" TvZ.
The Zenio game was from well over a year ago. Not really relevant.
In the last few months he's shown fantastic TvZ.
Against who? I can't find complete results for him on Liquipedia. He 4-2'd Leenock, that's all I can see. After he was able to watch replays of Leenock beating MVP in a close series 3-2.
On January 29 2012 11:00 Azhrei16 wrote: From the results I could find, Jjakji is 6-4 against Zergs in the GSL. 0-2 Zenio, 2-0 Luvsic, 2-0 Lucky, 0-2 Leenock, 4-2 Leenock. That's it. Need to hold off before we can say this guy has "amazing!" TvZ.
The Zenio game was from well over a year ago. Not really relevant.
In the last few months he's shown fantastic TvZ.
Against who? I can't find complete results for him on Liquipedia. He 4-2'd Leenock, that's all I can see. After he was able to watch replays of Leenock beating MVP in a close series 3-2.
Leenock and Sen.
Also beat Jookto in a recent ESV weekly and tooled Zenio in the FIS this week.
+ manhandled July in a very nice macro TvZ in the qualifers for IPL TA
On January 29 2012 11:00 Azhrei16 wrote: From the results I could find, Jjakji is 6-4 against Zergs in the GSL. 0-2 Zenio, 2-0 Luvsic, 2-0 Lucky, 0-2 Leenock, 4-2 Leenock. That's it. Need to hold off before we can say this guy has "amazing!" TvZ.
The Zenio game was from well over a year ago. Not really relevant.
In the last few months he's shown fantastic TvZ.
Against who? I can't find complete results for him on Liquipedia. He 4-2'd Leenock, that's all I can see. After he was able to watch replays of Leenock beating MVP in a close series 3-2.
Leenock and Sen.
Also beat Jookto in a recent ESV weekly and tooled Zenio in the FIS this week.
+ manhandled July in a very nice macro TvZ in the qualifers for IPL TA
Yeah I was mostly looking at GSL results since I can't find any other ones on Liquipedia. I forgot about the Korean Weekly also. ^_^
On January 29 2012 11:00 Azhrei16 wrote: From the results I could find, Jjakji is 6-4 against Zergs in the GSL. 0-2 Zenio, 2-0 Luvsic, 2-0 Lucky, 0-2 Leenock, 4-2 Leenock. That's it. Need to hold off before we can say this guy has "amazing!" TvZ.
I see how his results in GSL Open Season 2 against Zenio are more relevant to his skill than his ridiculous performance in TvZ. Why are you not including Up/Downs, GSTL, and ESV Weekly exactly? Up/Downs and GSTL both are relevant as is the Korean Weekly tournaments. (and if we're not including online events than Nerchio would have literally nothing speaking to his credibility other than winning over a tired, jetlagged GoOdy who had already taken out his toughest competition). Jjakji is 29-15 (65.91%) in TvZ, that's pretty amazing.
On January 29 2012 11:00 Azhrei16 wrote: From the results I could find, Jjakji is 6-4 against Zergs in the GSL. 0-2 Zenio, 2-0 Luvsic, 2-0 Lucky, 0-2 Leenock, 4-2 Leenock. That's it. Need to hold off before we can say this guy has "amazing!" TvZ.
I see how his results in GSL Open Season 2 against Zenio are more relevant to his skill than his ridiculous performance in TvZ. Why are you not including Up/Downs, GSTL, and ESV Weekly exactly? Up/Downs and GSTL both are relevant as is the Korean Weekly tournaments. (and if we're not including online events than Nerchio would have literally nothing speaking to his credibility other than winning over a tired, jetlagged GoOdy who had already taken out his toughest competition). Jjakji is 29-15 (65.91%) in TvZ, that's pretty amazing.
Well yes, but I don't think it necessarily qualifies him as "best TvZ in the world' as some people are saying.
For comparison, MVP has a 67% winrate and MMA an 80% winrate
On January 29 2012 11:00 Azhrei16 wrote: From the results I could find, Jjakji is 6-4 against Zergs in the GSL. 0-2 Zenio, 2-0 Luvsic, 2-0 Lucky, 0-2 Leenock, 4-2 Leenock. That's it. Need to hold off before we can say this guy has "amazing!" TvZ.
I see how his results in GSL Open Season 2 against Zenio are more relevant to his skill than his ridiculous performance in TvZ. Why are you not including Up/Downs, GSTL, and ESV Weekly exactly? Up/Downs and GSTL both are relevant as is the Korean Weekly tournaments. (and if we're not including online events than Nerchio would have literally nothing speaking to his credibility other than winning over a tired, jetlagged GoOdy who had already taken out his toughest competition). Jjakji is 29-15 (65.91%) in TvZ, that's pretty amazing.
I wasn't exactly including the result against Zenio from 2010, I was just stating that as a result. The only Up/Downs I found were right before he got into Code S and he didn't play any Zergs. I forgot to look at GSTL, and in like 4-5 posts before yours I said I forgot to check the Korean Weekly. Chill out man x_x I couldn't find anything that said his complete win rate vs Zerg so that's why I was just wondering. I wasn't arguing that he is a scrub and no one should pay attention to his TvZ. I just wanted to be informed as to why everyone thought his TvZ was so amazing when I couldn't really find anything on it. I apologize.
On January 29 2012 11:00 Azhrei16 wrote: From the results I could find, Jjakji is 6-4 against Zergs in the GSL. 0-2 Zenio, 2-0 Luvsic, 2-0 Lucky, 0-2 Leenock, 4-2 Leenock. That's it. Need to hold off before we can say this guy has "amazing!" TvZ.
I see how his results in GSL Open Season 2 against Zenio are more relevant to his skill than his ridiculous performance in TvZ. Why are you not including Up/Downs, GSTL, and ESV Weekly exactly? Up/Downs and GSTL both are relevant as is the Korean Weekly tournaments. (and if we're not including online events than Nerchio would have literally nothing speaking to his credibility other than winning over a tired, jetlagged GoOdy who had already taken out his toughest competition). Jjakji is 29-15 (65.91%) in TvZ, that's pretty amazing.
Well yes, but I don't think it necessarily qualifies him as "best TvZ in the world' as some people are saying.
For comparison, MVP has a 67% winrate and MMA an 80% winrate
I never said that he has the best, I was responding to the idea that his TvZ wasn't amazing. Mvp, MMA, and SuperNoVa all have better TvZ, but Jjakji is top 5 for sure.
I think the Team Liquid forum is suffering from a classic case of "follow the leader" syndrome. There was very little fanfare surrounding Jjakji when he got through Ro32 and Ro16 (didn't really deserve any, his games weren't very convincing) and his victories over Puzzle and Oz got lukewarm responses compared to Leenock's path. But after Tastosis praised the crap out of his series vs Leenock, people became convinced that he would maintain that high level of play all the time. Suddenly he became this godly unbeatable player with perfect TvZ. Everyone forgot how weak his TvT could be and that it would be humanely impossible to maintain that level of play in every single match, every single series. He always had great TvZ but the Leenock series really showcased how great it was when combined with his good preparation.
Undoubtedly lag is playing a role in the poor micro we've seen so far. But he's lost to Code B Protosses Finale and Younghwa in KSL events. He looked very mortal against Jookto, almost lost to a resurgent Ace, was beaten by TheStC and got rolled by Ganzi. Now that Jjakji is a proven champion he is also a worthwhile target, and people will be dedicating time to figuring out his playstyle. None of this applies to the showmatch occurring right now, but don't be surprised if he turns in some disappointing performances in the next few months.
And would it hurt a little to give Nerchio some credit?
On January 29 2012 11:16 CosmicSpiral wrote: I think the Team Liquid forum is suffering from a classic case of "follow the leader" syndrome. There was very little fanfare surrounding Jjakji when he got through Ro32 and Ro16 (didn't really deserve any, his games weren't very convincing) and his victories over Puzzle and Oz got lukewarm responses compared to Leenock's path. But after Tastosis praised the crap out of his series vs Leenock, people became convinced that he would maintain that high level of play all the time. Suddenly he became this godly unbeatable player with perfect TvZ. Everyone forgot how weak his TvT could be and that it would be humanely impossible to maintain that level of play in every single match, every single series.
Undoubtedly lag is playing a role in the poor micro we've seen so far. But he's lost to Code B Protosses Finale and Younghwa in KSL events. He looked very mortal against Jookto, almost lost to a resurgent Ace, was beaten by TheStC and got rolled by Ganzi. Now that Jjakji is a proven champion he is also a worthwhile target, and people will be dedicating time to figuring out his playstyle. None of this applies to the showmatch occurring right now, but don't be surprised if he turns in some disappointing performances in the next few months.
Yeah that was sort of the point I was trying to make. I think it's part of the Artosis syndrome. Player wins one series against a really good player and suddenly they are "the best XvY'er in the world!".
On January 29 2012 11:16 CosmicSpiral wrote: I think the Team Liquid forum is suffering from a classic case of "follow the leader" syndrome. There was very little fanfare surrounding Jjakji when he got through Ro32 and Ro16 (didn't really deserve any, his games weren't very convincing) and his victories over Puzzle and Oz got lukewarm responses compared to Leenock's path. But after Tastosis praised the crap out of his series vs Leenock, people became convinced that he would maintain that high level of play all the time. Suddenly he became this godly unbeatable player with perfect TvZ. Everyone forgot how weak his TvT could be and that it would be humanely impossible to maintain that level of play in every single match, every single series. He always had great TvZ but the Leenock series really showcased how great it was when combined with his good preparation.
Undoubtedly lag is playing a role in the poor micro we've seen so far. But he's lost to Code B Protosses Finale and Younghwa in KSL events. He looked very mortal against Jookto, almost lost to a resurgent Ace, was beaten by TheStC and got rolled by Ganzi. Now that Jjakji is a proven champion he is also a worthwhile target, and people will be dedicating time to figuring out his playstyle. None of this applies to the showmatch occurring right now, but don't be surprised if he turns in some disappointing performances in the next few months.
And would it hurt a little to give Nerchio some credit?
I think this result is expected, a player needs at least even playing conditions to beat maelstrom+storm that destroys 50 supply of units afters 2 uses if you don't split properly/emp in time, I will take this result with a sack, not a grain, of salt.
On January 29 2012 11:16 CosmicSpiral wrote: I think the Team Liquid forum is suffering from a classic case of "follow the leader" syndrome. There was very little fanfare surrounding Jjakji when he got through Ro32 and Ro16 (didn't really deserve any, his games weren't very convincing) and his victories over Puzzle and Oz got lukewarm responses compared to Leenock's path. But after Tastosis praised the crap out of his series vs Leenock, people became convinced that he would maintain that high level of play all the time. Suddenly he became this godly unbeatable player with perfect TvZ. Everyone forgot how weak his TvT could be and that it would be humanely impossible to maintain that level of play in every single match, every single series. He always had great TvZ but the Leenock series really showcased how great it was when combined with his good preparation.
Undoubtedly lag is playing a role in the poor micro we've seen so far. But he's lost to Code B Protosses Finale and Younghwa in KSL events. He looked very mortal against Jookto, almost lost to a resurgent Ace, was beaten by TheStC and got rolled by Ganzi. Now that Jjakji is a proven champion he is also a worthwhile target, and people will be dedicating time to figuring out his playstyle. None of this applies to the showmatch occurring right now, but don't be surprised if he turns in some disappointing performances in the next few months.
And would it hurt a little to give Nerchio some credit?
I would just like to say that I was a big Jjakji fan for a while just because I watched the ESV Weekly a lot, but I really, really got pumped when he did the Thor/Banshee/Raven style vs Puzzle (even though it's not the best style). I know that after his play in the finals he got a lot of fans, but I was consistently Liquibetting for him (mainly because I always Liquibet on some random Terran, worked with Byun and TOP! ^^). I don't think that Jjakji is the best, but his games are really fun to watch because he has the mechanics of a Korean but he does strategies that foreigners do a lot.
On January 29 2012 11:23 sCFade wrote: Nerchio fans getting some vindication here
Perhaps when he does this on LAN. Impossible to win TvZ if you can't micro.
we get it. If nerchio wins, it's the lag and if Jjakji wins, it's because he's better. Why exactly are you watching the match if that's how you think? Stop annoying the people here and do something else.
That's so nice how Nerchio is keeping 6 to 8 corruptors just to deal with the upcoming production of vikings, Jjakji was never able to get enough of them to deal with these broodlords.
Sounds really simple, but how many times i saw pros lose 10 broodlods just because they move out without corruptors, and getting their Infestors EMP'ed.
On January 29 2012 11:16 CosmicSpiral wrote: I think the Team Liquid forum is suffering from a classic case of "follow the leader" syndrome. There was very little fanfare surrounding Jjakji when he got through Ro32 and Ro16 (didn't really deserve any, his games weren't very convincing) and his victories over Puzzle and Oz got lukewarm responses compared to Leenock's path. But after Tastosis praised the crap out of his series vs Leenock, people became convinced that he would maintain that high level of play all the time. Suddenly he became this godly unbeatable player with perfect TvZ. Everyone forgot how weak his TvT could be and that it would be humanely impossible to maintain that level of play in every single match, every single series. He always had great TvZ but the Leenock series really showcased how great it was when combined with his good preparation.
Undoubtedly lag is playing a role in the poor micro we've seen so far. But he's lost to Code B Protosses Finale and Younghwa in KSL events. He looked very mortal against Jookto, almost lost to a resurgent Ace, was beaten by TheStC and got rolled by Ganzi. Now that Jjakji is a proven champion he is also a worthwhile target, and people will be dedicating time to figuring out his playstyle. None of this applies to the showmatch occurring right now, but don't be surprised if he turns in some disappointing performances in the next few months.
And would it hurt a little to give Nerchio some credit?
I would just like to say that I was a big Jjakji fan for a while just because I watched the ESV Weekly a lot, but I really, really got pumped when he did the Thor/Banshee/Raven style vs Puzzle (even though it's not the best style). I know that after his play in the finals he got a lot of fans, but I was consistently Liquibetting for him (mainly because I always Liquibet on some random Terran, worked with Byun and TOP! ^^). I don't think that Jjakji is the best, but his games are really fun to watch because he has the mechanics of a Korean but he does strategies that foreigners do a lot.
I disagree, even when tastosis kept talking for 8 minutes about what his opponents and more especifically protoss players were doing in the game, and how jjakji had little to no chance against any of them, I saw how mechanically sound and smart he was, he is at least top 3 in my books.
On January 29 2012 11:27 Ornithorynquez wrote: That's so nice how Nerchio is keeping 6 to 8 corruptors just to deal with the upcoming production of vikings, Jjakji was never able to get enough of them to deal with these broodlords.
Sounds really simple, but how many times i saw pros lose 10 broodlods just because they move out without corruptors, and getting their Infestors EMP'ed.
I always hate seeing Zergs morph ALL of their corrupters to broodlords lol
On January 29 2012 11:30 MrCon wrote: Poor NASL thread is nearly page 2 TT
Not exactly the most appealing match up tbh xD
On January 29 2012 11:30 Eee wrote: Beastyqt once wrote on TL that the lag from EU to NA was worse than KR to NA.
quote the post?
===
Hrm, not sure whether to stay up in case Nerchio can wrap this up in the next few games. Wouldn't mind if Jjakji is able to bring it back a bit either, but then that would make it really later TT
dilemmas!
love this build Jjakji is doing, similar to the one he did vs Sen (though there he got 6 hellions)
On January 29 2012 11:30 Eee wrote: Beastyqt once wrote on TL that the lag from EU to NA was worse than KR to NA.
I'm going to go ahead and take the countless reports from multiple players and value them higher than the statement of one guy, who I honestly don't even remember going to Korea. (could be wrong)
On January 29 2012 11:30 Eee wrote: Beastyqt once wrote on TL that the lag from EU to NA was worse than KR to NA.
I'm going to go ahead and take the countless reports from multiple players and value them higher than the statement of one guy, who I honestly don't even remember going to Korea. (could be wrong)
But thats just me!
Every empire player is pretty much saying it is worse or the same as korea, remember they all live in east europe. Noone is saying that the latency from sweden to US is worse than KR US...
Also in Eizo cup i believe Polt took down Nerchio 2-0 even though Nerchio had no lag (tournament was held at EU server), and Polt was playing with KR-EU lag (which is worse than KR-NA)
On January 29 2012 11:34 Elyvilon wrote: I would bet the lag from Europe depends on where in Europe you are. England? Probably fine. Places like Russia, Serbia(Poland?), maybe not as good.
UK internet is known for being quite horrible though
Still going to lean towards everyone else who said there is a difference though, at least until foreigner vs korean results offline match those that happen online more frequently ^^
Might just be the eastern europe latency too there.
On January 29 2012 11:34 Elyvilon wrote: I would bet the lag from Europe depends on where in Europe you are. England? Probably fine. Places like Russia, Serbia(Poland?), maybe not as good.
UK internet is known for being quite horrible though
On January 29 2012 11:30 Eee wrote: Beastyqt once wrote on TL that the lag from EU to NA was worse than KR to NA.
quote the post?
===
Hrm, not sure whether to stay up in case Nerchio can wrap this up in the next few games. Wouldn't mind if Jjakji is able to bring it back a bit either, but then that would make it really later TT
dilemmas!
love this build Jjakji is doing, similar to the one he did vs Sen (though there he got 6 hellions)
I know that Kas said that the lag in from KR to NA isn't worse than from Ukraine to NA.
He said it against Ganzi ingame, because Ganzi complained about the lag. It was on the Taldarim game, if I remember correctly. Kas was in Korea for WCG.
On January 29 2012 11:34 Elyvilon wrote: I would bet the lag from Europe depends on where in Europe you are. England? Probably fine. Places like Russia, Serbia(Poland?), maybe not as good.
UK internet is known for being quite horrible though
I did not know that, but replace England with Sweden or Germany or something.
On January 29 2012 11:30 Eee wrote: Beastyqt once wrote on TL that the lag from EU to NA was worse than KR to NA.
quote the post?
===
Hrm, not sure whether to stay up in case Nerchio can wrap this up in the next few games. Wouldn't mind if Jjakji is able to bring it back a bit either, but then that would make it really later TT
dilemmas!
love this build Jjakji is doing, similar to the one he did vs Sen (though there he got 6 hellions)
I'm on my cell right now, I can pm the post to you tomorrow
On January 29 2012 11:36 mijagi182 wrote: Also in Eizo cup i believe Polt took down Nerchio 2-0 even though Nerchio had no lag (tournament was held at EU server), and Polt was playing with KR-EU lag (which is worse than KR-NA)
On January 29 2012 11:16 CosmicSpiral wrote: I think the Team Liquid forum is suffering from a classic case of "follow the leader" syndrome. There was very little fanfare surrounding Jjakji when he got through Ro32 and Ro16 (didn't really deserve any, his games weren't very convincing) and his victories over Puzzle and Oz got lukewarm responses compared to Leenock's path. But after Tastosis praised the crap out of his series vs Leenock, people became convinced that he would maintain that high level of play all the time. Suddenly he became this godly unbeatable player with perfect TvZ. Everyone forgot how weak his TvT could be and that it would be humanely impossible to maintain that level of play in every single match, every single series. He always had great TvZ but the Leenock series really showcased how great it was when combined with his good preparation.
Undoubtedly lag is playing a role in the poor micro we've seen so far. But he's lost to Code B Protosses Finale and Younghwa in KSL events. He looked very mortal against Jookto, almost lost to a resurgent Ace, was beaten by TheStC and got rolled by Ganzi. Now that Jjakji is a proven champion he is also a worthwhile target, and people will be dedicating time to figuring out his playstyle. None of this applies to the showmatch occurring right now, but don't be surprised if he turns in some disappointing performances in the next few months.
And would it hurt a little to give Nerchio some credit?
I would just like to say that I was a big Jjakji fan for a while just because I watched the ESV Weekly a lot, but I really, really got pumped when he did the Thor/Banshee/Raven style vs Puzzle (even though it's not the best style). I know that after his play in the finals he got a lot of fans, but I was consistently Liquibetting for him (mainly because I always Liquibet on some random Terran, worked with Byun and TOP! ^^). I don't think that Jjakji is the best, but his games are really fun to watch because he has the mechanics of a Korean but he does strategies that foreigners do a lot.
Most of my favorite players stem from watching less-known Korean events. People who only watch GSL will never understand my appreciation of Inca.
On January 29 2012 11:30 MrCon wrote: Poor NASL thread is nearly page 2 TT
Not exactly the most appealing match up tbh xD
On January 29 2012 11:30 Eee wrote: Beastyqt once wrote on TL that the lag from EU to NA was worse than KR to NA.
quote the post?
===
Hrm, not sure whether to stay up in case Nerchio can wrap this up in the next few games. Wouldn't mind if Jjakji is able to bring it back a bit either, but then that would make it really later TT
dilemmas!
love this build Jjakji is doing, similar to the one he did vs Sen (though there he got 6 hellions)
I'm on my cell right now, I can pm the post to you tomorrow
It's fine mate, Starve tracked it down =)
Jjakji playing decently this game, roach/infestor seems so awkward to play against though.
On January 29 2012 11:30 Eee wrote: Beastyqt once wrote on TL that the lag from EU to NA was worse than KR to NA.
I'm going to go ahead and take the countless reports from multiple players and value them higher than the statement of one guy, who I honestly don't even remember going to Korea. (could be wrong)
But thats just me!
Every empire player is pretty much saying it is worse or the same as korea, remember they all live in east europe. Noone is saying that the latency from sweden to US is worse than KR US...
Well, so if you're in the Ukraine, it's worse, but if you're in say Germany it's not? But oh no, Poland is right in the middle...
On January 29 2012 11:43 dmnum wrote: I love how jjakji makes a billion medivacs.
When you have that many medivacs, barring baneling hits or high dps attacks, your marines are basically invincible as long as your medivacs have energy. It's crazy and hilarious to see rambo marines.
On January 29 2012 11:30 Eee wrote: Beastyqt once wrote on TL that the lag from EU to NA was worse than KR to NA.
I'm going to go ahead and take the countless reports from multiple players and value them higher than the statement of one guy, who I honestly don't even remember going to Korea. (could be wrong)
But thats just me!
Every empire player is pretty much saying it is worse or the same as korea, remember they all live in east europe. Noone is saying that the latency from sweden to US is worse than KR US...
Well, so if you're in the Ukraine, it's worse, but if you're in say Germany it's not? But oh no, Poland is right in the middle...
I'm still not buying it
Quality of internet in germany and sweden is ten times higher than in poland and ukraine
On January 29 2012 11:34 Elyvilon wrote: I would bet the lag from Europe depends on where in Europe you are. England? Probably fine. Places like Russia, Serbia(Poland?), maybe not as good.
UK internet is known for being quite horrible though
I did not know that, but replace England with Sweden or Germany or something.
It has as much if not more to do with internet connection rather than proximity to the US. It's also not the same every day.
I think it has to do with Koreans not being used to latency rather than the latency between the servers. For example when sase went back to Sweden for Christmas hollydays he tweeted about how hard it was for him to play on eu (from Sweden) because there is such a difference between the cristal clear Korean one and the Swedish one. Example two, I'm also pretty Sure that morrow expressed the same problem in an interview at NASL 2, he said that playing the lan tournament didn't feel nearly as clear as Korean ladder and that it was slightly annoying.
So I think Europeans/Americans are just more used to latency and can perform better even if they have lag. while Koreans rarely encounter it on Korean server but Europeans/americans do on their respective ones.
On January 29 2012 11:54 dmnum wrote: Ultra ling infestor does not work. You need banes.
More importantly you need to be able to get a surround/concave. That map is horrible with the chokes for ultras and jjakji did a wonderful job of constricting it even further.
Doesn't ultra baneling only work if the Terran doesn't target fire the banelings. With 15 tanks and 20 marauders, banelings don't seem all that useful.
I don't understand zerg. Jjaki has been countering Nerchio's army comp for 15 minutes, but nerchio kept making the same units over and over... Furthermore he kept trying to engage (read: a-move) into chokes using ultras... I don't know
On January 29 2012 11:58 Al Bundy wrote: I don't understand zerg. Jjaki has been countering Nerchio's army comp for 15 minutes, but nerchio kept making the same units over and over... Furthermore he kept trying to engage (read: a-move) into chokes using ultras... I don't know
sometimes you collapse and you think is allin when you comit to a comp . he just had tunnel vision happens to a lot of pro gamers
On January 29 2012 11:56 Eee wrote: I think it has to do with Koreans not being used to latency rather than the latency between the servers. For example when sase went back to Sweden for Christmas hollydays he tweeted about how hard it was for him to play on eu (from Sweden) because there is such a difference between the cristal clear Korean one and the Swedish one. Example two, I'm also pretty Sure that morrow expressed the same problem in an interview at NASL 2, he said that playing the lan tournament didn't feel nearly as clear as Korean ladder and that it was slightly annoying.
So I think Europeans/Americans are just more used to latency and can perform better even if they have lag. while Koreans rarely encounter it on Korean server but Europeans/americans do on their respective ones.
I'd like to see more MMM stim timings vs Nerchio's style. Roaches are horrible against that, and if you hit before infestors are out I'm sure jjakji could steamroll his army every time.
On January 29 2012 11:30 Eee wrote: Beastyqt once wrote on TL that the lag from EU to NA was worse than KR to NA.
Well hes from Croatia right? That may be true in his case. Not for western Europe though
Well Nerchio is from Poland which isn't really Western Europe...
But regardless of what Beastyqt might say, every other pro I've heard has said the exact opposite. Maybe his home has really bad latency or something, but read stuff from any other pro (or just look at Jjakji's performance here) and you'll see that KR > NA is a lot worse than EU > NA.
How does Nerchio's style deal with 15 marauders and 30 marines with a bajillion medivacs? Roaches just have slow rate of fire, lings suck vs medivac healing and infestors can be microed against to linnet their usefulness.
I was very impressed with Nerchio(and still kinda am), but I'm starting to think that maybe Nerchio was winning because he had Jjakji's vods to study with while Jjakji had to figure out Nerchio while playing these games.
On January 29 2012 11:55 Hulavuta wrote: Nerchio woulda won if he had banelings.
Everyone's gonna blame his loss on Ultralisks though.
Too many ultras
More like too many infestors. Almost all of them kept getting emp'd
There is no such thing as too many infestors! Blasphemy!
I agree that Nerchio needed better Infestor management in that game though.
Yeah poor control, but he did get off a few good fungals yet didn't get to capitalize on it with banelings since they all just got healed by the medivac cloud.
On January 29 2012 12:16 Nostalgia.NA wrote: I was very impressed with Nerchio(and still kinda am), but I'm starting to think that maybe Nerchio was winning because he had Jjakji's vods to study with while Jjakji had to figure out Nerchio while playing these games.
There are more vods of Nerchio playing than of Jjakji, if he studied more it shows he cares more about this match and it shouldn't be sloughed off as accessibility.
I was very impressed with Nerchio(and still kinda am), but I'm starting to think that maybe Nerchio was winning because he had Jjakji's vods to study with while Jjakji had to figure out Nerchio while playing these games.
On January 29 2012 12:16 Micket wrote: How does Nerchio's style deal with 15 marauders and 30 marines with a bajillion medivacs? Roaches just have slow rate of fire, lings suck vs medivac healing and infestors can be microed against to linnet their usefulness.
It's not optimal against the compositions that Jjakji used in the last games. Muta-ling-bling is more mobile and the blings provide AOE and high dps while mutas can harass and snipe drops. But that is just my opinion, and I am nowhere as good as Nerchio. Obviously roach-ling-infestor has its strengths, but also its weaknesses.
On January 29 2012 12:16 Micket wrote: How does Nerchio's style deal with 15 marauders and 30 marines with a bajillion medivacs? Roaches just have slow rate of fire, lings suck vs medivac healing and infestors can be microed against to linnet their usefulness.
From what people say, KR -> EU is laggy typically.
Not saying this showmatch was laggy for Jjakji, (Nerchio is definitely a very good player and one of the best--- and he's so good because he use to random IMO) but was it played on NA then to alleviate that common problem?
On January 29 2012 12:16 Nostalgia.NA wrote: I was very impressed with Nerchio(and still kinda am), but I'm starting to think that maybe Nerchio was winning because he had Jjakji's vods to study with while Jjakji had to figure out Nerchio while playing these games.
There are more vods of Nerchio playing than of Jjakji, if he studied more it shows he cares more about this match and it shouldn't be sloughed off as accessibility.
Not trying to take anything away from Nerchio, but I'm just saying I feel like GSL games are more accessible and seeing Jjakji get slaughtered at first then seeing him starting to beat the thing, I'm just saying maybe that might've been the case given how things are going right now.
I was very impressed with Nerchio(and still kinda am), but I'm starting to think that maybe Nerchio was winning because he had Jjakji's vods to study with while Jjakji had to figure out Nerchio while playing these games.
So its no longer lag now?
If you're trying to pick a fight, you're replying to the wrong guy. I haven't QQ'd about lag or anything here and I'm not trying to be a Jjakji fanboy or anything. Don't overlook the fact that I'm still impressed with Nerchio. All I'm saying is that what I said may be a possibility given the series of events(Jjakji getting owned and then starting to own the same style that's been owning him).
I'm pretty sure jjakji could have easily found Nerchio vods since Nerchio has played in a million tournaments. He may have felt it was unnecessary, though.
On January 29 2012 12:16 Nostalgia.NA wrote: I was very impressed with Nerchio(and still kinda am), but I'm starting to think that maybe Nerchio was winning because he had Jjakji's vods to study with while Jjakji had to figure out Nerchio while playing these games.
There are more vods of Nerchio playing than of Jjakji, if he studied more it shows he cares more about this match and it shouldn't be sloughed off as accessibility.
Jjakji's got Code S to worry about. If Jjakji wins this, it won't really be that big of a deal for him (other than the money of course) where as winning this for Nerchio would be a really big deal. Nerchio not only has access to VODs, but he also has the time/desire to beat Jjakji.
seems like the casters already know the results of the individual games from the way they commentate throughout each game, kinda spoils the fun for me though
When Nerchio was making broodlords, he was wrecking face. When he started making ultras they started being horrible -- I've not seen his ultras really do anything that a pile of lings wouldn't have done.
Ultras are so bad, really...
ed: not trying to start a balance conversation or anything, just saying that broods seem to be the superior hive tech...
On January 29 2012 12:39 entropius wrote: When Nerchio was making broodlords, he was wrecking face. When he started making ultras they started being horrible -- I've not seen his ultras really do anything that a pile of lings wouldn't have done.
Ultras are so bad, really...
ed: not trying to start a balance conversation or anything, just saying that broods seem to be the superior hive tech...
it is just that jjakji did not know who nerchio was, and when he realised it, the real Jjakji turn up and demolish nerchio.
Nerchio playing super sloppy last game Considering how much he got away with early on (especially with that hidden third), it's a pity he couldn't pull off the win there.
On January 29 2012 12:38 MK4512 wrote: I'm not sure of what Nerchio is doing later in this series, demonstrating why ultras are bad in TvZ?
Yes, I'm sure you guys know better than him, drg , stephano, and the list goes on.
He destroys Jjakji with Brood Lords, and then switches into Ultras in tight choke maps?
I don't care who's doing it, I don't understand the choice to go slow melee on tight choke maps, especially in this game where he had a spire before hand.
On January 29 2012 12:40 m0ck wrote: Camp on 2-3 bases 'till 200/200 with marauder and ghost. A-move to win. Hope to see a composition much heavier on ling-bling in the next game.
On January 29 2012 12:40 Frunkis wrote: These maps seem very Terran friendly. That last map was nothing but narrow chokepoints which just compounded the awfulness of ultras.
On January 29 2012 12:40 Frunkis wrote: These maps seem very Terran friendly. That last map was nothing but narrow chokepoints which just compounded the awfulness of ultras.
The first map was TDA cross positions, which is extremely Zerg favoured.
On January 29 2012 12:40 m0ck wrote: Camp on 2-3 bases 'till 200/200 with marauder and ghost. A-move to win. Hope to see a composition much heavier on ling-bling in the next game.
Did you see Jjakji's splits against the fungals t_t Not really an a move.
On January 29 2012 12:40 m0ck wrote: Camp on 2-3 bases 'till 200/200 with marauder and ghost. A-move to win. Hope to see a composition much heavier on ling-bling in the next game.
Man it's a pity you didn't watch the last game, where that's actually not the reason that Jjakji won.
On January 29 2012 12:40 m0ck wrote: Camp on 2-3 bases 'till 200/200 with marauder and ghost. A-move to win. Hope to see a composition much heavier on ling-bling in the next game.
oh sweetie.
It's a good counter to an army as bio-heavy as the one jjakji plays.
On January 29 2012 12:40 Frunkis wrote: These maps seem very Terran friendly. That last map was nothing but narrow chokepoints which just compounded the awfulness of ultras.
Nerchio just played poorly. He threw away units constantly throughout the entire game.
He took a huge risk in taking a hidden base and still lost. It was bad decision making that lost him the game not the map.
On January 29 2012 12:39 entropius wrote: Ultras are so bad, really...
Ultra are fine, but Nerchio make ultras on worsts maps to do them, and continue making ultra vs perfect counter.
Jakjji always gets the first marauders before the ultras are on the map, search for replays where the terrans don't do that(which are extremely common) and see how hard they get rolled, it's just grossly one-sided, and I am pretty sure that Nerchio keeps using them because he got used to playing in the described circumstance.
On January 29 2012 12:45 Taktik wrote: I miss old "BM-Nerchio" and now he puts smiles here and there dont bm and talk balance at all.. I dont like it xd
Don´t worry, in smaller online-cups against opponents, he doesn´t respect as much as Jjakji, he will still be bm.
On January 29 2012 12:40 m0ck wrote: Camp on 2-3 bases 'till 200/200 with marauder and ghost. A-move to win. Hope to see a composition much heavier on ling-bling in the next game.
Totally clueless, sif terran ever can amove against zerg of all races lol..
On January 29 2012 12:45 Taktik wrote: I miss old "BM-Nerchio" and now he puts smiles here and there dont bm and talk balance at all.. I dont like it xd
On January 29 2012 12:40 m0ck wrote: Camp on 2-3 bases 'till 200/200 with marauder and ghost. A-move to win. Hope to see a composition much heavier on ling-bling in the next game.
On January 29 2012 12:45 Taktik wrote: I miss old "BM-Nerchio" and now he puts smiles here and there dont bm and talk balance at all.. I dont like it xd
I find it sad that that sort of thing is not only tolerated by tournaments and organizations but also the fact that people want it to happen. + Show Spoiler [kind of off-topic rant] +
One thing that I really like about Korean tournaments as opposed to foreigner tournaments is the fact that the Koreans are strict about any sort of bad mannerisms as opposed to tournaments like IPL or MLG. The fact that IdrA doesn't get in any sort of trouble after saying "Fuck you" in a broadcasted major tournament or NaNiwa getting away with calling MLG a "joke tournament" on the main stage is an embarrassment. Tournaments really need to prove that they are in control of their players by punishing them for BMing.
I absolutely love now jjakji is purposely forcing this series to the last game for the fans. He could have won 5-0 but he chose not to. <3 So caring for the fans.
Jjakji caught off by Nerchio's broodlord timing again... well played. My only issue is that this close series on cross-server could create a lot of unreasonable expectations around Nerchio vs Koreans.
4-4 SOOOOO SICK, Jjakji needs to be more active in the early game, you can't let a zerg be taking his 6th at 13min in >.>, oh wow shattered, wouldn't be surprised to see mech here
It seems like Jjakji just waits until the mass broodlords are headed his way to make vikings. Is he just not scouting it or what? He gets completely rolled by them.
Why is this map even in the pool? Shattered Temple is honestly one of the worst maps out there and it's been overplayed. There are so many great maps that IPL has access to, so why, why, why am I about to watch a game on this map?
On January 29 2012 13:01 Badfatpanda wrote: 4-4 SOOOOO SICK, Jjakji needs to be more active in the early game, you can't let a zerg be taking his 6th at 13min in >.>, oh wow shattered, wouldn't be surprised to see mech here
On January 29 2012 13:01 The Final Boss wrote: Why is this map even in the pool? Shattered Temple is honestly one of the worst maps out there and it's been overplayed. There are so many great maps that IPL has access to, so why, why, why am I about to watch a game on this map?
Who knows, don't see Nerchio winning on this map. Why have the dropped Metalopolis but kept Shattered? I'm not a huge Meta fan but if you're going to keep a classic map then Metalopolis is the best.
Nerchio is playing incredibly, but you can tell the lag is there. The corrupter near the end pretty much told the tale. Jjackji is smart enough to know not to focus broodlings. Not trying to take too much away from Nerchio though, he's still playing very well.
On January 29 2012 12:40 m0ck wrote: Camp on 2-3 bases 'till 200/200 with marauder and ghost. A-move to win. Hope to see a composition much heavier on ling-bling in the next game.
i understand ur bitterness
I really don't, terran being the 1a race vs zerg, seriously?Play TvZ for 5 games and your opinion will change. How can someone see Nerchio winning with blord corruptor every ZvT that he manages to win and call Jakjji the 1a player, it's so baffling that I can't help but laugh, the blords just sit there and everything dies, jesus.
On January 29 2012 13:00 devPLEASE wrote: I absolutely love now jjakji is purposely forcing this series to the last game for the fans. He could have won 5-0 but he chose not to. <3 So caring for the fans.
Seriously don't start shit like this. Koreans are not unbeatable and certainly not perfect so stop acting like a korean vs foreigner is an instant all kill for a korean because that's not true.
On January 29 2012 13:00 Moralez wrote: JJakji = Polt v2 He will never win a GSL again.
I think you're wrong. I think he's better than you are giving him credit. He was drawing eyes long before won his first GSL. I think you will see much more of him.
Such poor scouting by Jjakji. If he was so scared of burrowed infesters that scanning the main was not worth it, perhaps he could have got a raven. When you secure an economical advantage vs Zerg, you prepare for broodlords because ultras are the worst comeback Zerg unit in the game.
On January 29 2012 12:40 m0ck wrote: Camp on 2-3 bases 'till 200/200 with marauder and ghost. A-move to win. Hope to see a composition much heavier on ling-bling in the next game.
Camp on 2-3 bases 'till 200/200 with marauder and ghost. Move-command to lose. Hope to see more broods^^
Seriously though, I see nerchio working much harder than jjakji in thees games. I would like to see the apm-overview.
On January 29 2012 12:45 Taktik wrote: I miss old "BM-Nerchio" and now he puts smiles here and there dont bm and talk balance at all.. I dont like it xd
I find it sad that that sort of thing is not only tolerated by tournaments and organizations but also the fact that people want it to happen. + Show Spoiler [kind of off-topic rant] +
One thing that I really like about Korean tournaments as opposed to foreigner tournaments is the fact that the Koreans are strict about any sort of bad mannerisms as opposed to tournaments like IPL or MLG. The fact that IdrA doesn't get in any sort of trouble after saying "Fuck you" in a broadcasted major tournament or NaNiwa getting away with calling MLG a "joke tournament" on the main stage is an embarrassment. Tournaments really need to prove that they are in control of their players by punishing them for BMing.
I agree with you about those 2 incidents. They should have got punish but I also dont want the players to turn into polite robots. One of the best hype moments for me last yea was when MC and Idra when at it at MLG.
Thats what I want to see but you defiantly right there has to be a balance
On January 29 2012 13:01 Highways wrote: Late game TvZ is kinda a joke.
Brood Lords = Auto win Ultralisk = Auto loss
What a bad comment. Yes broodlords are usually better than ultras, but ultras still have a role. Also ultras don't ALWAYS lose, and broods don't ALWAYS win. I think one of the reasons we see broods winning more often (besides being better imo) is that they are often used when a zerg is macroing up, while ultras are often used when they have to remax quickly to defend, and are therefore already behind.
Cross-server or not, I don't think any other foreign zerg bar Stephano could have made it the series vs Jjakji look so close. Eight games have been played so far, the score is 4-4, and the cast has been on for over 3 hours now - with only small intermissions in between.
On January 29 2012 13:01 Highways wrote: Late game TvZ is kinda a joke.
Brood Lords = Auto win Ultralisk = Auto loss
Ultras are only really good in ZvT to solidify your win. I don't think that they should ever be the first Hive tech unit that a Zerg gets, but getting them as a second wave after a Terran over makes Vikings (especially if you can keep your Infestors alive) allows you to decimate a Terran.
Just out of curiosity, has anybody else been really unimpressed by these games? Generally I'm excited going into an ace match, but with the way these two have been playing and the map (Shattered Temple) I just cannot be excited about this...
Well u guys have to understand those zergs who says "Ultras suck" when they see on stream their favourite players always losing with these units and mostly winning with broods... Ultras in general dont seem "strong" there is no this WOW factor which u see when 8 broods pop up
On January 29 2012 13:00 devPLEASE wrote: I absolutely love now jjakji is purposely forcing this series to the last game for the fans. He could have won 5-0 but he chose not to. <3 So caring for the fans.
Seriously don't start shit like this. Koreans are not unbeatable and certainly not perfect so stop acting like a korean vs foreigner is an instant all kill for a korean because that's not true.
Why are you putting words in my mouth. Did I ever say or imply that Koreans auto win against foreigners. No I did not. HuK was winning in GSL and NaNiwa beat both NesTea and Mvp. Not once did I state that Koreans destroy foreigners always. You're the one starting shit.
==
On topic: jjakji should win this one since it seems to be a pattern. Also jjakji is good at TvZ
On January 29 2012 13:02 RagequitBM wrote: Nerchio is playing incredibly, but you can tell the lag is there. The corrupter near the end pretty much told the tale. Jjackji is smart enough to know not to focus broodlings. Not trying to take too much away from Nerchio though, he's still playing very well.
Sigh, You dont think Nerchio got huge lag also or do you think Poland to US is lagless?
On January 29 2012 12:40 m0ck wrote: Camp on 2-3 bases 'till 200/200 with marauder and ghost. A-move to win. Hope to see a composition much heavier on ling-bling in the next game.
i understand ur bitterness
I really don't, terran being the 1a race vs zerg, seriously?Play TvZ for 5 games and your opinion will change. How can someone see Nerchio winning with blord corruptor every ZvT that he manages to win and call Jakjji the 1a player, it's so baffling that I can't help but laugh, the blords just sit there and everything dies, jesus.
im being sarcastic by looking at my sig u shud know im also a terran player
On January 29 2012 13:00 Moralez wrote: JJakji = Polt v2 He will never win a GSL again.
As a Polt fan this offends and amuses me.
it's funny because Polt is in Code A ro48 right now and seeing him in a final again would be quite surprising but not a shock. There are only a few players which are really better than him.
On January 29 2012 12:40 m0ck wrote: Camp on 2-3 bases 'till 200/200 with marauder and ghost. A-move to win. Hope to see a composition much heavier on ling-bling in the next game.
Camp on 2-3 bases 'till 200/200 with marauder and ghost. Move-command to lose. Hope to see more broods^^
Seriously though, I see nerchio working much harder than jjakji in thees games. I would like to see the apm-overview.
Your bias is disgusting, nerchio showed so far retardedly easy to do ling run bys, burrowed infestors with their inherently micro restricting fungal growth (maesltrom+stomr) and the most naturally 1a composition in the game after chargealots, zerg air, bitch please.
On January 29 2012 12:45 Taktik wrote: I miss old "BM-Nerchio" and now he puts smiles here and there dont bm and talk balance at all.. I dont like it xd
I find it sad that that sort of thing is not only tolerated by tournaments and organizations but also the fact that people want it to happen. + Show Spoiler [kind of off-topic rant] +
One thing that I really like about Korean tournaments as opposed to foreigner tournaments is the fact that the Koreans are strict about any sort of bad mannerisms as opposed to tournaments like IPL or MLG. The fact that IdrA doesn't get in any sort of trouble after saying "Fuck you" in a broadcasted major tournament or NaNiwa getting away with calling MLG a "joke tournament" on the main stage is an embarrassment. Tournaments really need to prove that they are in control of their players by punishing them for BMing.
I agree with you about those 2 incidents. They should have got punish but I also dont want the players to turn into polite robots. One of the best hype moments for me last yea was when MC and Idra when at it at MLG.
Thats what I want to see but you defiantly right there has to be a balance
btw amasing serie
I think that there is a real difference between what happened there between MC and IdrA (that classic firebathero-esque celebration), but I think that there is a line between what is appropriate and what is not and I don't think that it is that difficult for the players or the organization to really define. Taunting is one thing, but bashing or swearing just really shouldn't be tolerated.
On January 29 2012 13:04 The Final Boss wrote: Just out of curiosity, has anybody else been really unimpressed by these games? Generally I'm excited going into an ace match, but with the way these two have been playing and the map (Shattered Temple) I just cannot be excited about this...
I have not been particularly happy either. Perhaps my expectations are biased, though: Nerchio played better than I thought, but Jjakji just seemed offline. Again, Jjakji is not the most consistent/solid/clean player, but he usually knows better than staying on marine/tank for twenty minutes and then going "ooops 15 broodlords, guess I just lose now".
On January 29 2012 12:40 m0ck wrote: Camp on 2-3 bases 'till 200/200 with marauder and ghost. A-move to win. Hope to see a composition much heavier on ling-bling in the next game.
Camp on 2-3 bases 'till 200/200 with marauder and ghost. Move-command to lose. Hope to see more broods^^
Seriously though, I see nerchio working much harder than jjakji in thees games. I would like to see the apm-overview.
Your bias is disgusting, nerchio showed so far retardedly easy to do ling run bys, burrowed infestors with their inherently micro restricting fungal growth (maesltrom+stomr) and the most naturally 1a composition in the game after chargealots, zerg air, bitch please.
It's a severe lack of game knowledge overall, I'd ignore it
On January 29 2012 13:00 Moralez wrote: JJakji = Polt v2 He will never win a GSL again.
As a Polt fan this offends and amuses me.
it's funny because Polt is in Code A ro48 right now and seeing him in a final again would be quite surprising but not a shock. There are only a few players which are really better than him.
He's in Code A but in the best shape of his career at the moment.
On January 29 2012 13:04 The Final Boss wrote: Just out of curiosity, has anybody else been really unimpressed by these games? Generally I'm excited going into an ace match, but with the way these two have been playing and the map (Shattered Temple) I just cannot be excited about this...
I have not been particularly happy either. Perhaps my expectations are biased, though: Nerchio played better than I thought, but Jjakji just seemed offline. Again, Jjakji is not the most consistent/solid/clean player, but he usually knows better than staying on marine/tank for twenty minutes and then going "ooops 15 broodlords, guess I just lose now".
I agree with this. If Nerchio gets out his broodlords in time (read as: before he types "gg"), he wins because Jjakji isn't preparing for them. Again and again and again. Kinda makes me sad.
I'm pretty entertained by CatsPajamas sounding just like Artosis with his laugh-bursts though.
if Jjakji pushes with a medivac or 2 I don't see nerchio defending this push without a severe drone loss, roach ling early on this map can be punished so easily by a tank contain.
On January 29 2012 13:00 Moralez wrote: JJakji = Polt v2 He will never win a GSL again.
As a Polt fan this offends and amuses me.
it's funny because Polt is in Code A ro48 right now and seeing him in a final again would be quite surprising but not a shock. There are only a few players which are really better than him.
Exactly. He's in Code A but in the best shape of his career at the moment.
and this discussion imply that I'm gonna to open some vod and try to steal some stuff from his play :D which is bad considerating it's 5am atm here :'(
On January 29 2012 12:40 m0ck wrote: Camp on 2-3 bases 'till 200/200 with marauder and ghost. A-move to win. Hope to see a composition much heavier on ling-bling in the next game.
Camp on 2-3 bases 'till 200/200 with marauder and ghost. Move-command to lose. Hope to see more broods^^
Seriously though, I see nerchio working much harder than jjakji in thees games. I would like to see the apm-overview.
Your bias is disgusting, nerchio showed so far retardedly easy to do ling run bys, burrowed infestors with their inherently micro restricting fungal growth (maesltrom+stomr) and the most naturally 1a composition in the game after chargealots, zerg air, bitch please.
It's a severe lack of game knowledge overall, I'd ignore it
Yeah I would ignore somebody as stupid as that guy. But regarding the Ling-run bys I think they're being super effective because Jjakji is experiencing lag making depot-raising difficult.
On January 29 2012 13:04 The Final Boss wrote: Just out of curiosity, has anybody else been really unimpressed by these games? Generally I'm excited going into an ace match, but with the way these two have been playing and the map (Shattered Temple) I just cannot be excited about this...
I have not been particularly happy either. Perhaps my expectations are biased, though: Nerchio played better than I thought, but Jjakji just seemed offline. Again, Jjakji is not the most consistent/solid/clean player, but he usually knows better than staying on marine/tank for twenty minutes and then going "ooops 15 broodlords, guess I just lose now".
I agree with this. If Nerchio gets out his broodlords in time (read as: before he types "gg"), he wins because Jjakji isn't preparing for them. Again and again and again. Kinda makes me sad.
I'm pretty entertained by CatsPajamas sounding just like Artosis with his laugh-bursts though.
Cats is basically what I would expect a deeper Artosis to sound like, it's pretty great ^^
This is one of those times where I would love to be able to jump in to the replay and play it out from nerchio's standpoint and see if I could break the contain, great series, gj to both players, that was very entertaining!
On January 29 2012 13:04 The Final Boss wrote: Just out of curiosity, has anybody else been really unimpressed by these games? Generally I'm excited going into an ace match, but with the way these two have been playing and the map (Shattered Temple) I just cannot be excited about this...
I have not been particularly happy either. Perhaps my expectations are biased, though: Nerchio played better than I thought, but Jjakji just seemed offline. Again, Jjakji is not the most consistent/solid/clean player, but he usually knows better than staying on marine/tank for twenty minutes and then going "ooops 15 broodlords, guess I just lose now".
That's because of two things. 1. jjakji was lagging. 2. jjakji wasn't even trying. That was probably like 0.00001% of his skill when compared to the games vs. Leenock or Sen.
I feel like that was a lot closer than they were making it out at the end and if Nerchio countered to the gold instead of throwing those units away and then went back and attempted to break the contain (or simply used those units to stop reinforcements), he could have won.
On January 29 2012 13:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: This is exactly why I don't believe- for a second- people who pretend to spoil the results in advance, despite their "sources".
On January 29 2012 13:16 HappyChris wrote: This map really needs to get eliminated form all tournaments its just impossible as zerg vs Terran
But great serie wellplayed by both
I thought it was pretty sloppy on both parts. But I think that if Nerchio had crushed the bunker contain outside his natural instead of counter-attacking he could have won. He then could have denied the gold for a while and expand a lot. It was a bad decision on his part, but that map is pretty terrible.
On January 29 2012 13:19 1Eris1 wrote: I dunno how much lag there was, but props to Nerchio regardless, it was a valiant showing.
Not gonna lie, unless there was a lot more lag than was visible, I'm pretty worried for Jjakji
Well, it's kinda weird because the first game he played awful, making huge blunders all the time. And then it was more decision-based blunders, kinda weird. Might be Nerchio's style too, Jjakji excel with pure marine tank against muta/bane/ling, he might not be used/don't be as good against roaches.
Sometimes i wonder about these threads... Both players worked their ass off in this series. Yes Jjakji was overrun by Broodlords quite a few times, but that was basically what Nerchios builds in those games were about.
Frankly i stayed up until 5.30am because the series was interesting to watch, so obviously i wasn't that disappointed.
On January 29 2012 13:19 Badfatpanda wrote: This is one of those times where I would love to be able to jump in to the replay and play it out from nerchio's standpoint and see if I could break the contain, great series, gj to both players, that was very entertaining!
I really hope they get MC vs Jjakji. Not only would that be an awesome match-up of two Korean superstars, I'd love to see Jjakji's Thor/Banshee/Raven play put to the test against the best Protoss in the land (well one of them anyways).
On January 29 2012 13:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: This is exactly why I don't believe- for a second- people who pretend to spoil the results in advance, despite their "sources".
The thing is anyone can spoil it for themselves just by looking at either players NA account.
I know that's a possibility, but there are so many people who troll and flame just to get attention, that if they said "I know what the score is, Player X wins with *this score* because I looked on his account", I still wouldn't believe him (unless he actually posted a screen shot, in which I hope his computer explodes).
On January 29 2012 13:04 The Final Boss wrote: Just out of curiosity, has anybody else been really unimpressed by these games? Generally I'm excited going into an ace match, but with the way these two have been playing and the map (Shattered Temple) I just cannot be excited about this...
I have not been particularly happy either. Perhaps my expectations are biased, though: Nerchio played better than I thought, but Jjakji just seemed offline. Again, Jjakji is not the most consistent/solid/clean player, but he usually knows better than staying on marine/tank for twenty minutes and then going "ooops 15 broodlords, guess I just lose now".
That's because of two things. 1. jjakji was lagging. 2. jjakji wasn't even trying. That was probably like 0.00001% of his skill when compared to the games vs. Leenock or Sen.
Why do you bother posting this? How do you determine that? Why such a low number? Why bother using a number if its something you can't possibly measure?
On January 29 2012 13:04 The Final Boss wrote: Just out of curiosity, has anybody else been really unimpressed by these games? Generally I'm excited going into an ace match, but with the way these two have been playing and the map (Shattered Temple) I just cannot be excited about this...
I have not been particularly happy either. Perhaps my expectations are biased, though: Nerchio played better than I thought, but Jjakji just seemed offline. Again, Jjakji is not the most consistent/solid/clean player, but he usually knows better than staying on marine/tank for twenty minutes and then going "ooops 15 broodlords, guess I just lose now".
That's because of two things. 1. jjakji was lagging. 2. jjakji wasn't even trying. That was probably like 0.00001% of his skill when compared to the games vs. Leenock or Sen.
Nice to know we have someone in the thread who lives in the NHS house.
On January 29 2012 13:23 The Final Boss wrote: I really hope they get MC vs Jjakji. Not only would that be an awesome match-up of two Korean superstars, I'd love to see Jjakji's Thor/Banshee/Raven play put to the test against the best Protoss in the land (well one of them anyways).
I doubt Jjakji's gonna use that build vs MC, and btw, the build was actually created by Sage, especially for that match vs Puzzle.
On January 29 2012 13:04 The Final Boss wrote: Just out of curiosity, has anybody else been really unimpressed by these games? Generally I'm excited going into an ace match, but with the way these two have been playing and the map (Shattered Temple) I just cannot be excited about this...
I have not been particularly happy either. Perhaps my expectations are biased, though: Nerchio played better than I thought, but Jjakji just seemed offline. Again, Jjakji is not the most consistent/solid/clean player, but he usually knows better than staying on marine/tank for twenty minutes and then going "ooops 15 broodlords, guess I just lose now".
That's because of two things. 1. jjakji was lagging. 2. jjakji wasn't even trying. That was probably like 0.00001% of his skill when compared to the games vs. Leenock or Sen.
What a clown. Could you try to spout less crap next time
On January 29 2012 13:04 The Final Boss wrote: Just out of curiosity, has anybody else been really unimpressed by these games? Generally I'm excited going into an ace match, but with the way these two have been playing and the map (Shattered Temple) I just cannot be excited about this...
I have not been particularly happy either. Perhaps my expectations are biased, though: Nerchio played better than I thought, but Jjakji just seemed offline. Again, Jjakji is not the most consistent/solid/clean player, but he usually knows better than staying on marine/tank for twenty minutes and then going "ooops 15 broodlords, guess I just lose now".
That's because of two things. 1. jjakji was lagging. 2. jjakji wasn't even trying. That was probably like 0.00001% of his skill when compared to the games vs. Leenock or Sen.
I totally was gonna estimate it at like .0000000001% of his skill. He's even more hardcore than Frieza. Dude.
On January 29 2012 13:23 The Final Boss wrote: I really hope they get MC vs Jjakji. Not only would that be an awesome match-up of two Korean superstars, I'd love to see Jjakji's Thor/Banshee/Raven play put to the test against the best Protoss in the land (well one of them anyways).
I doubt Jjakji's gonna use that build vs MC, and btw, the build was actually created by Sage, especially for that match vs Puzzle.
If they play on Daybreak they might. I've seen Jjakji use that build other times on Daybreak, but that's pretty cool that Sage made it, didn't know that.
On January 29 2012 13:23 The Final Boss wrote: I really hope they get MC vs Jjakji. Not only would that be an awesome match-up of two Korean superstars, I'd love to see Jjakji's Thor/Banshee/Raven play put to the test against the best Protoss in the land (well one of them anyways).
I doubt Jjakji's gonna use that build vs MC, and btw, the build was actually created by Sage, especially for that match vs Puzzle.
i'm suprised that Sage crafted a TvP build. he should switch races imo.
On January 29 2012 13:23 The Final Boss wrote: I really hope they get MC vs Jjakji. Not only would that be an awesome match-up of two Korean superstars, I'd love to see Jjakji's Thor/Banshee/Raven play put to the test against the best Protoss in the land (well one of them anyways).
I doubt Jjakji's gonna use that build vs MC, and btw, the build was actually created by Sage, especially for that match vs Puzzle.
Lol! Sage should spend some more time working on his nerves and mechanics rather than creating BOs for teammates that play other races! =P He is team captain after all, though...
On January 29 2012 13:21 Taktik wrote: And to think that if IPL just swap replays and cast them in different way (so Jjakji would be up 2-0) we would avoid about 10 pages of "lag issue".
LOLs. I know people only harp on the lag issue when Koreans lose... but even if Jjakji won, those games just weren't up to the standard we normally see from him.
That said, I feel like Jjakji's style has made him somewhat not tuned into timings regular terrans would be because he just relies on his micro to pull off things that he shouldn't normally be able to pull off.
From my personal experience, the lag from KR to NA is quite stupid. The most retarded thing is that the lag is not consistent. Sometimes I can deal with lag, but other times it's so stupid that it just makes me want to quit the game and play custom maps.
From watching Jjakji playing just now, I can totally understand why he played the way he did. There is no way you can unit micro when the lag is bad. The best you can do is turtle until you get the right army composition and just a-move your death ball to the victory.
even catspajamas said it will probably be ogsmc LOL ((. I closed out of stream b4 he said it cus i didnt wanna spoil myself, so I thought NADA? SUPER? STC? And then i came here cus I couldn't help myself and its mc lol cats dun goofed . Seriously though...
Just tuned in, I'm assuming Jjaki is getting some ridiculously serious stream lag? I've never seen a korean pro play this bad, especially someone on jjaki's level. He hasn't microed anything the whole game.
It's like he has a 1 second delay on everything he does....
It's been a pretty consistent theme that top foreigners can compete with top Koreans in cross-server games, hasn't it? Whether that translates at all to success in offline games is up for debate, though.
To say that Jijakji wasn't trying is silly. Lag may be a slight issue, but still. To deny that the better player won that game is to deny that a Zerg is ever a better player.
dont flame me but its considerably easier to play in lag with zerg than terran in zvt (i play random). i play on kr and some days i get 1s delay and its unplayable given its only masters level. but i wonder how it would feel for a pro korean terran because they always make more marines than anything in their army due to their sheer confidence in micro with them. not saying nerchio didnt deserve it but, well meh he really didn't. play at lan or in the same region and we'll get the real results.
On January 29 2012 14:35 DaCruise wrote: Well it didnt really look like Jjakji had lag in that game.
His marauder kiting was delicious, and if he hadn't been able to kite with that marauder, there is a solid chance that his other marauder could have been killed.
On January 29 2012 14:41 TheDougler wrote: K guys I'm baffled. Liquipedia says they're on game 8, the stream is on game 4. What's going on? What's the score? Is it over?
Nerchio's victories here don't suprise me at all. Jijakji is playing quite well but he keeps making a couple of mistakes that he simply cannot recover from. A few big fungals really won Nerchio that game.
Jijakji's macro really shined in that game. He lost something like 40+ scvs and 40+ marines for free due to some increddible fungal usage, and still had an econ and in fact a supply lead for a significant portion of the game.
It simply is not acceptable to not scan up ramps when playing vs infestor style.
I think Nerchio and Stephano are so successful because they are really good with infestors. Most Korean Zergs are really good at making banelings, and pretty bad at making tactical decisions (DRG not withstanding). These foreign zergs use Terran like tactics which force literally CONSTANT micro (splitting, scanning) from the Terran to combat.
Infestor's weakness has historically been drops and mass expanding. Drops are actually incredibly easy to defend with infestors if you plan for them, and mass expanding can be pretty weak to hive tech if your positioning/transitioning is not spot on. Even if you defend the Broodlords, if you dont kill the infestors the Ultralisk push can spell doom. And then comes the nydus.
Nerchio is so underrated, so many people hating on him. you don't win 80 European cups for nothing... pretty sure people like Kas participate in those sometimes... Plus he just beat mana last week, dudes. Whoever wins, Nerchio is a really good player who I think stands a decent chance of breaking out, especially if he was on a bigger team :/
On January 29 2012 15:04 Techno wrote: Nerchio's victories here don't suprise me at all. Jijakji is playing quite well but he keeps making a couple of mistakes that he simply cannot recover from. A few big fungals really won Nerchio that game.
Jijakji's macro really shined in that game. He lost something like 40+ scvs and 40+ marines for free due to some increddible fungal usage, and still had an econ and in fact a supply lead for a significant portion of the game.
It simply is not acceptable to not scan up ramps when playing vs infestor style.
I think Nerchio and Stephano are so successful because they are really good with infestors. Most Korean Zergs are really good at making banelings, and pretty bad at making tactical decisions (DRG not withstanding). These foreign zergs use Terran like tactics which force literally CONSTANT micro (splitting, scanning) from the Terran to combat.
Infestor's weakness has historically been drops and mass expanding. Drops are actually incredibly easy to defend with infestors if you plan for them, and mass expanding can be pretty weak to hive tech if your positioning/transitioning is not spot on. Even if you defend the Broodlords, if you dont kill the infestors the Ultralisk push can spell doom. And then comes the nydus.
jjaki was doing is standard build like he would play in ladder. you can tell from how he played, he's known for ridiculous timing attacks.
he didn't want to reveal too much in this series.
He really didn't show his best, watch him in gsl and in this, it's clear he didn't go balls out.
On January 29 2012 14:20 FidoDido wrote: I'm sure lag was not a factor at all. Nerchio is just a GSL champion level player.
no he's not.
he outplayed jjakji in some of these games pretty hard. Nerchio is top 5-10 zerg in the world probably so...
I think it's a little early to be making statements like that. Sure, he looked good today but I've also seen him humiliated by players like Whitera fairly recently.
On January 29 2012 14:20 FidoDido wrote: I'm sure lag was not a factor at all. Nerchio is just a GSL champion level player.
no he's not.
he outplayed jjakji in some of these games pretty hard. Nerchio is top 5-10 zerg in the world probably so...
I think it's a little early to be making statements like that. Sure, he looked good today but I've also seen him humiliated by players like Whitera fairly recently.
??? Nerchio has been showing very good results consistently against some koreans too...
he's been around for a pretty long time, top3 zerg in Europe.
On January 29 2012 15:04 Techno wrote: Nerchio's victories here don't suprise me at all. Jijakji is playing quite well but he keeps making a couple of mistakes that he simply cannot recover from. A few big fungals really won Nerchio that game.
Jijakji's macro really shined in that game. He lost something like 40+ scvs and 40+ marines for free due to some increddible fungal usage, and still had an econ and in fact a supply lead for a significant portion of the game.
It simply is not acceptable to not scan up ramps when playing vs infestor style.
I think Nerchio and Stephano are so successful because they are really good with infestors. Most Korean Zergs are really good at making banelings, and pretty bad at making tactical decisions (DRG not withstanding). These foreign zergs use Terran like tactics which force literally CONSTANT micro (splitting, scanning) from the Terran to combat.
Infestor's weakness has historically been drops and mass expanding. Drops are actually incredibly easy to defend with infestors if you plan for them, and mass expanding can be pretty weak to hive tech if your positioning/transitioning is not spot on. Even if you defend the Broodlords, if you dont kill the infestors the Ultralisk push can spell doom. And then comes the nydus.
jjaki was doing is standard build like he would play in ladder. you can tell from how he played, he's known for ridiculous timing attacks.
he didn't want to reveal too much in this series.
He really didn't show his best, watch him in gsl and in this, it's clear he didn't go balls out.
Whatever helps you sleep at night, bro but Jijakji is known for IMMVP esque macro games with a Slayers MMA tactical twist, not a theBestFoU clusterfuck.
Jakji simply wasnt in the mindset to play a good TvZ in the first couple games, and no amount of skill can win you a TvZ when you do not force the zerg to choose what lives and what dies.
Jjakji couldn't risk showing good builds because he is in the GSL currently. Having a higher chance of success in the GSL is way more important than having a higher chance of success in a showmatch, sorry to say.
On January 29 2012 14:20 FidoDido wrote: I'm sure lag was not a factor at all. Nerchio is just a GSL champion level player.
no he's not.
he outplayed jjakji in some of these games pretty hard. Nerchio is top 5-10 zerg in the world probably so...
I think it's a little early to be making statements like that. Sure, he looked good today but I've also seen him humiliated by players like Whitera fairly recently.
??? Nerchio has been showing very good results consistently against some koreans too...
Nerchio is very good, but it would be best to wait before making such bold statements. There have been so many overhyped players since SC2 came out, and I hope it does not happen to nerchio as it makes it hard for the player to meet fan expectations. He has not yet won a major LAN with Koreans. I think top 5 foreign Zerg is a reasonable statement, but not top 10 zerg in the world. Remember: nestea drg leenock curious losira coca...plenty of great zergs out there.
On January 29 2012 14:20 FidoDido wrote: I'm sure lag was not a factor at all. Nerchio is just a GSL champion level player.
no he's not.
he outplayed jjakji in some of these games pretty hard. Nerchio is top 5-10 zerg in the world probably so...
I think it's a little early to be making statements like that. Sure, he looked good today but I've also seen him humiliated by players like Whitera fairly recently.
??? Nerchio has been showing very good results consistently against some koreans too...
he's been around for a pretty long time, top3 zerg in Europe.
And what notable series victories does he have over top Koreans? . . . Exactly. He's a top foreigner, but calling him a top in the world is ridiculous and baseless
Nerchio looks like shit in the early game. That lair was a mistake, I knew hed lose this CBTS game right when I saw that lair go down. He is simply playing too greedy trying to take a fast third after investing in roaches early then dumping all his resources into tech way too fast.
Roach Third Roach LIng BLing defense Then tech up.
Someone needs to introduce nerchio to the baneling.
On January 29 2012 14:20 FidoDido wrote: I'm sure lag was not a factor at all. Nerchio is just a GSL champion level player.
no he's not.
he outplayed jjakji in some of these games pretty hard. Nerchio is top 5-10 zerg in the world probably so...
I think it's a little early to be making statements like that. Sure, he looked good today but I've also seen him humiliated by players like Whitera fairly recently.
??? Nerchio has been showing very good results consistently against some koreans too...
he's been around for a pretty long time, top3 zerg in Europe.
And what notable series victories does he have over top Koreans? . . . Exactly. He's a top foreigner, but calling him a top in the world is ridiculous and baseless
i think he beat hero at homestory cup, but hero is not top player in gsl
On January 29 2012 15:34 Hall0wed wrote: Jjakji couldn't risk showing good builds because he is in the GSL currently. Having a higher chance of success in the GSL is way more important than having a higher chance of success in a showmatch, sorry to say.
Such flawed logic: 1) People in GSL scout. Some games they might as well have map hacks. 2) Not everyone plays like MC and theBest. The best Terrans in the world play standard. The best Zergs in the world play standard. Even in GSL. 3) He's already showed off 2 timing attacks: Single gas, 3 rax, 1 reactor, reactor medivac 2 marauder stim and 2 gas 3 rax 2 reactor, reactor port stim/combat.
On January 29 2012 14:20 FidoDido wrote: I'm sure lag was not a factor at all. Nerchio is just a GSL champion level player.
no he's not.
he outplayed jjakji in some of these games pretty hard. Nerchio is top 5-10 zerg in the world probably so...
I think it's a little early to be making statements like that. Sure, he looked good today but I've also seen him humiliated by players like Whitera fairly recently.
??? Nerchio has been showing very good results consistently against some koreans too...
he's been around for a pretty long time, top3 zerg in Europe.
And what notable series victories does he have over top Koreans? . . . Exactly. He's a top foreigner, but calling him a top in the world is ridiculous and baseless
what are the top korean zergs right now? nestea drg leenock and curious? ok all the other ones are no better than foreign top zergs...
On January 29 2012 15:04 Techno wrote: Nerchio's victories here don't suprise me at all. Jijakji is playing quite well but he keeps making a couple of mistakes that he simply cannot recover from. A few big fungals really won Nerchio that game.
Jijakji's macro really shined in that game. He lost something like 40+ scvs and 40+ marines for free due to some increddible fungal usage, and still had an econ and in fact a supply lead for a significant portion of the game.
It simply is not acceptable to not scan up ramps when playing vs infestor style.
I think Nerchio and Stephano are so successful because they are really good with infestors. Most Korean Zergs are really good at making banelings, and pretty bad at making tactical decisions (DRG not withstanding). These foreign zergs use Terran like tactics which force literally CONSTANT micro (splitting, scanning) from the Terran to combat.
Infestor's weakness has historically been drops and mass expanding. Drops are actually incredibly easy to defend with infestors if you plan for them, and mass expanding can be pretty weak to hive tech if your positioning/transitioning is not spot on. Even if you defend the Broodlords, if you dont kill the infestors the Ultralisk push can spell doom. And then comes the nydus.
jjaki was doing is standard build like he would play in ladder. you can tell from how he played, he's known for ridiculous timing attacks.
he didn't want to reveal too much in this series.
He really didn't show his best, watch him in gsl and in this, it's clear he didn't go balls out.
Whatever helps you sleep at night, bro but Jijakji is known for IMMVP esque macro games with a Slayers MMA tactical twist, not a theBestFoU clusterfuck.
Jakji simply wasnt in the mindset to play a good TvZ in the first couple games, and no amount of skill can win you a TvZ when you do not force the zerg to choose what lives and what dies.
whatever helps me sleep at night? oh ok?
I don't need to convince myself of anything, jjaki won and that was not his best at all. seems you're the one trying to convince yourself and desperately hang onto a show match online and tell yourself that nerchio is some code S god now.
On January 29 2012 14:20 FidoDido wrote: I'm sure lag was not a factor at all. Nerchio is just a GSL champion level player.
no he's not.
he outplayed jjakji in some of these games pretty hard. Nerchio is top 5-10 zerg in the world probably so...
you're not a gsl code S champ material till you prove otherwise. a showmatch online doesn't prove anything.
nerchio would get stomped on in code A much less code S
of course he's not gonna win GSL code S, but neither has DRG, or Leenock
how does that statement you just made about drg and leenock prove anything?
drg/leenock have done more to prove their worth than nerchio has by far.
nercho may have won alot of online tournaments, but he hasn't accomplished what drg/leenock has in really big tournaments that really matter.
hell, leenock's mlg providence run and 2nd place at gsl code S trumps all of nerchio's online tournaments, and drg/leenock are Code S players. nerchio isn't. you're not a Code S player till you actually make it.
On January 29 2012 14:20 FidoDido wrote: I'm sure lag was not a factor at all. Nerchio is just a GSL champion level player.
no he's not.
he outplayed jjakji in some of these games pretty hard. Nerchio is top 5-10 zerg in the world probably so...
you're not a gsl code S champ material till you prove otherwise. a showmatch online doesn't prove anything.
nerchio would get stomped on in code A much less code S
of course he's not gonna win GSL code S, but neither has DRG, or Leenock
You're right, because none of them have won a GSL championship, DRG = Leenock = Nerchio. Their achievements are totally comparable. What the fuck is the point of your post.
On January 29 2012 14:20 FidoDido wrote: I'm sure lag was not a factor at all. Nerchio is just a GSL champion level player.
no he's not.
he outplayed jjakji in some of these games pretty hard. Nerchio is top 5-10 zerg in the world probably so...
I think it's a little early to be making statements like that. Sure, he looked good today but I've also seen him humiliated by players like Whitera fairly recently.
??? Nerchio has been showing very good results consistently against some koreans too...
he's been around for a pretty long time, top3 zerg in Europe.
And what notable series victories does he have over top Koreans? . . . Exactly. He's a top foreigner, but calling him a top in the world is ridiculous and baseless
what are the top korean zergs right now? nestea drg leenock and curious? ok all the other ones are no better than foreign top zergs...
He's beaten hero and violet according to tlpd...
top foreigner isn't that far from top korean
Lol yes they are.... Look at HuK, IdrA, Stephano, SaSe, NaNiwa. all of them in code A/B. That is very FAR from top koreans which i assume you are talking about Top 20 Code S
On January 29 2012 14:20 FidoDido wrote: I'm sure lag was not a factor at all. Nerchio is just a GSL champion level player.
no he's not.
he outplayed jjakji in some of these games pretty hard. Nerchio is top 5-10 zerg in the world probably so...
you're not a gsl code S champ material till you prove otherwise. a showmatch online doesn't prove anything.
nerchio would get stomped on in code A much less code S
of course he's not gonna win GSL code S, but neither has DRG, or Leenock
how does that statement you just made about drg and leenock prove anything?
drg/leenock have done more to prove their worth than nerchio has by far.
nercho may have won alot of online tournaments, but he hasn't accomplished what drg/leenock has in really big tournaments that really matter.
hell, leenock's mlg providence run and 2nd place at gsl code S trumps all of nerchio's online tournaments, and drg/leenock are Code S players. nerchio isn't. you're not a Code S player till you actually make it.
... You're making it sound like if a player is in code S he can't compete with those that are... when this is obviously wrong... Nerchio competed against Jjakji pretty ok-ishly and he did not have his best games either sooo..
On January 29 2012 14:20 FidoDido wrote: I'm sure lag was not a factor at all. Nerchio is just a GSL champion level player.
no he's not.
he outplayed jjakji in some of these games pretty hard. Nerchio is top 5-10 zerg in the world probably so...
I think it's a little early to be making statements like that. Sure, he looked good today but I've also seen him humiliated by players like Whitera fairly recently.
??? Nerchio has been showing very good results consistently against some koreans too...
he's been around for a pretty long time, top3 zerg in Europe.
And what notable series victories does he have over top Koreans? . . . Exactly. He's a top foreigner, but calling him a top in the world is ridiculous and baseless
what are the top korean zergs right now? nestea drg leenock and curious? ok all the other ones are no better than foreign top zergs...
He's beaten hero and violet according to tlpd...
top foreigner isn't that far from top korean
Lol yes they are.... Look at HuK, IdrA, Stephano, SaSe, NaNiwa. all of them in code A/B. That is very FAR from top koreans which i assume you are talking about Top 20 Code S
And they all have taken convincing games off players that are in Code S... getting into code S is very hard for any player, since there's not a lot of foreigners in korea it makes sense that it takes them a while to get into code S...
On January 29 2012 14:20 FidoDido wrote: I'm sure lag was not a factor at all. Nerchio is just a GSL champion level player.
no he's not.
he outplayed jjakji in some of these games pretty hard. Nerchio is top 5-10 zerg in the world probably so...
I think it's a little early to be making statements like that. Sure, he looked good today but I've also seen him humiliated by players like Whitera fairly recently.
??? Nerchio has been showing very good results consistently against some koreans too...
he's been around for a pretty long time, top3 zerg in Europe.
And what notable series victories does he have over top Koreans? . . . Exactly. He's a top foreigner, but calling him a top in the world is ridiculous and baseless
what are the top korean zergs right now? nestea drg leenock and curious? ok all the other ones are no better than foreign top zergs...
He's beaten hero and violet according to tlpd...
top foreigner isn't that far from top korean
Lol yes they are.... Look at HuK, IdrA, Stephano, SaSe, NaNiwa. all of them in code A/B. That is very FAR from top koreans which i assume you are talking about Top 20 Code S
Most of those names can easily compete with the Code S people around the 20thish best rank. Its when you get into the top 3-8 that the distance widens. Huk and the others have shown good results against top Koreans before.
On another topic.. Does anyone know if HD/Painuser still work at IGN? I have only heard DOA/Catspajamas lately...
On January 27 2012 04:09 HappyChris wrote: Nerchio allmost never lose online and Jjaki dont know Nerchios style. However when that is sayd Jjaki are a monster. Was so impressed by him when he played vs Stephano when he was in Korea.
Ill say close match but Jjaki gonna edge it out
However if Nerchio wins Im just gonna say it before anyone els Jjaki must have been lagged o.0 Herpderp
On January 29 2012 14:20 FidoDido wrote: I'm sure lag was not a factor at all. Nerchio is just a GSL champion level player.
no he's not.
he outplayed jjakji in some of these games pretty hard. Nerchio is top 5-10 zerg in the world probably so...
I think it's a little early to be making statements like that. Sure, he looked good today but I've also seen him humiliated by players like Whitera fairly recently.
??? Nerchio has been showing very good results consistently against some koreans too...
he's been around for a pretty long time, top3 zerg in Europe.
And what notable series victories does he have over top Koreans? . . . Exactly. He's a top foreigner, but calling him a top in the world is ridiculous and baseless
what are the top korean zergs right now? nestea drg leenock and curious? ok all the other ones are no better than foreign top zergs...
He's beaten hero and violet according to tlpd...
top foreigner isn't that far from top korean
Lol yes they are.... Look at HuK, IdrA, Stephano, SaSe, NaNiwa. all of them in code A/B. That is very FAR from top koreans which i assume you are talking about Top 20 Code S
And they all have taken convincing games off players that are in Code S... getting into code S is very hard for any player, since there's not a lot of foreigners in korea it makes sense that it takes them a while to get into code S...
And they've lost convincing games to mediocre Koreans, just like top Koreans have also lost to mediocre Koreans but it still doesn't make mediocre Koreans like Monster or Bbongbbong not that far off. Seriously though, beating top players here and there doesn't mean much if you can't consistently win.
Nerchio simply cannot defend a fast third with infestors. You cant get the tech out in time.
Especially the gold base on Shattered. I cant believe he thought that would work. Do EU Terrans let him get away with this? Roaches are like really bad ZvT if they arent tanking for something.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
It's confirmed they play on EU ? or are you just talking out of your ass, like with your irrelevant Code X vs non Code X nonsense.
... And, as expected, here come the terribly-likely-to-be-smashed-at-the-first-chance expectations for Nerchio. =p But alas, keep taking single matches of context and abide by their results with all your convinction, this is esports!
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
No foreigner is code A material? I believe some evidence out there could prove you wrong
On January 29 2012 18:04 skyflyfish wrote: ppl should watch home story cup4 before they say EU = just as good as top koreans
Uh, top 3 is korean
Reread what he said.
People should watch HSC4 before they say that EU players are just as good as top Koreans. So the top 3 being Korean reinforces his point.
To be fair, Homestory Cup 4 didn't feature the best foreigners, while at the same time it didn't feature the very best Koreans. All we know is that the Koreans who were at HSC4 were better than the foreigners.
Ultimately though, there is a skill gap. Just gotta remember that it's not as wide as it was in BW and occasionally a foreigner will pop up and show they can compete, like Sase did some hour ago when he beat oGsFin.
Anyway, well played by Nerchio. He put up a good show.
On January 29 2012 17:59 blade55555 wrote: Honestly just ignore it NA players suck (in general its true) but EU = just as good as top koreans lol I have started to ignore those comments ^^.
Jesus, please do so. Its surprising what drama one stupid comment can cause. Of course most of us Euros don't think so.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
are you serious? Nerchio goes 4v5 vs. the current GSL champion and you say he's not even Code A? WTF? Can't believe how ... some people are... How do you know it was played on the EU server? They either played on NA or they changed between EU/KR.
On January 29 2012 18:04 skyflyfish wrote: ppl should watch home story cup4 before they say EU = just as good as top koreans
Uh, top 3 is korean
Reread what he said.
People should watch HSC4 before they say that EU players are just as good as top Koreans. So the top 3 being Korean reinforces his point.
To be fair, Homestory Cup 4 didn't feature the best foreigners, while at the same time it didn't feature the very best Koreans. All we know is that the Koreans who were at HSC4 were better than the foreigners.
Ultimately though, there is a skill gap. Just gotta remember that it's not as wide as it was in BW and occasionally a foreigner will pop up and show they can compete, like Sase did some hour ago when he beat oGsFin.
Anyway, well played by Nerchio. He put up a good show.
Or that the koreans didn't party hard enough at HSC.
On January 29 2012 16:54 Fubi wrote: sry if this has been asked, but which server are these games played?
Must have been on NA. Besides that playing on KR or EU wouldn't make sense lag-wise there is one more thing. Both players were on a smurf account which indicates that neither one plays on that server regularly. If they played on KR (JJakji has an account there) or EU (same but Nerchio) that wouldn't happen.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
are you serious? Nerchio goes 4v5 vs. the current GSL champion and you say he's not even Code A? WTF? Can't believe how ... some people are... How do you know it was played on the EU server? They either played on NA or they changed between EU/KR.
He'll be Code A-level once he competes in Code A and doesn't drop out the first round like nearly every other "Code A/S-level" foreigner.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
are you serious? Nerchio goes 4v5 vs. the current GSL champion and you say he's not even Code A? WTF? Can't believe how ... some people are... How do you know it was played on the EU server? They either played on NA or they changed between EU/KR.
Its not just about individual players. All top 50-100 koreans can probably have at least a 30-40% chance of beating the best foreigner. Thats why foreigners who can takes games off the best korean players still struggle to get into code A or struggle in code A because the skill level is just that high. Only the very top korean players (MVP/MMA/Nestea) are consistent enough to stay in code S. The rest who are still dam good just fleet between code S and A eg. Losira/MC/Polt/Supernova
I thought it's gonna be 5:1 at best, and what a nice suprise i got so see
It's funny how people from Americas somehow tried to disregard Nerchio's good result. "they played on EU ?, not showing builds, terrible maps, whatever else..."
The score says it all. It was BO9 so it's hard to blame entire serises on luck or other things. Don't be an ass and be happy that the gap between EU and KR isn't big enough like in BW times. We got to see nice series with two excellent players and excellent games.
I'm sorry that NA don't have that many top players. Instead of trying to disregard Nerchio's achievements, why don't you engage yourself more into your scene by organising and playing more online cups, get your friends to try out SC2. Just be more competitive, like Sheth for example.
P.S. I'm sure results could be different if Nerchio wouldn't have to study most of his time.
On January 29 2012 21:35 5ukkub wrote: I thought it's gonna be 5:1 at best, and what a nice suprise i got so see
It's funny how people from Americas somehow tried to disregard Nerchio's good result. "they played on EU ?, not showing builds, terrible maps, whatever else..."
The score says it all. It was BO9 so it's hard to blame entire serises on luck or other things. Don't be an ass and be happy that the gap between EU and KR isn't big enough like in BW times. We got to see nice series with two excellent players and excellent games.
I'm sorry that NA don't have that many top players. Instead of trying to disregard Nerchio's achievements, why don't you engage yourself more into your scene by organising and playing more online cups, get your friends to try out SC2. Just be more competitive, like Sheth for example.
P.S. I'm sure results could be different if Nerchio wouldn't have to study most of his time.
It's not only Americas, it's just people who know that there is indeed a skill gap between KR and EU. No matter how well you do against a korean in an online match, that doesn't mean anything really, the conditions are far too suboptimal.
Nerchio always has really high apm, and strong mechanics - sadly his not streaming often. People forget that players like MaNa or Nerchio are studying and unable to dedicade fully to sc2 like IdrA, Huk, SaSe, NaNi not even mentioning korean pros. So 5-4 with GSL champion it is impressive even if online. And both and had lags, and errors due to it.
I only watched first 4 maps, it was getting late (/early :p). How was the rest of the games? Did nerchio stop the infestor abuse after 4th map? Or did jj just figure it out?
On January 29 2012 22:07 DamageControL wrote: lol I thought Nerchio won based on how defensive people have been!
Same lol. Everybody should be happy to see foreigners able to hold their own but its always a torrent of buttpain. zzz
I tend to root for Koreans, but people need to stop shouting LAG every time. Instead why not point out that Jjaki won 4 of the last five. Why was that btw? Did he just figure out nerchio? Or...
On January 29 2012 22:07 DamageControL wrote: lol I thought Nerchio won based on how defensive people have been!
Same lol. Everybody should be happy to see foreigners able to hold their own but its always a torrent of buttpain. zzz
I tend to root for Koreans, but people need to stop shouting LAG every time. Instead why not point out that Jjaki won 4 of the last five. Why was that btw? Did he just figure out nerchio? Or...
If you check the results in the OP, wins were rather exchanged till the last game. Figuring out might be partially true due to Nerchio's infestors, coz Koreans tend to use banes.
On January 29 2012 22:07 DamageControL wrote: lol I thought Nerchio won based on how defensive people have been!
Same lol. Everybody should be happy to see foreigners able to hold their own but its always a torrent of buttpain. zzz
I tend to root for Koreans, but people need to stop shouting LAG every time. Instead why not point out that Jjaki won 4 of the last five. Why was that btw? Did he just figure out nerchio? Or...
i dont think it was the case. Nerchio didnt use ultras till it was 3-1 for him and once he used BL he did win again. Last game was on ST which is horrible for zerg still Nerchio was holding pretty long.
On January 29 2012 13:04 The Final Boss wrote: Just out of curiosity, has anybody else been really unimpressed by these games? Generally I'm excited going into an ace match, but with the way these two have been playing and the map (Shattered Temple) I just cannot be excited about this...
I have not been particularly happy either. Perhaps my expectations are biased, though: Nerchio played better than I thought, but Jjakji just seemed offline. Again, Jjakji is not the most consistent/solid/clean player, but he usually knows better than staying on marine/tank for twenty minutes and then going "ooops 15 broodlords, guess I just lose now".
That's because of two things. 1. jjakji was lagging. 2. jjakji wasn't even trying. That was probably like 0.00001% of his skill when compared to the games vs. Leenock or Sen.
Wow, I thought I was biased because of nationality but what you are saying is 0 credit to Nerchio, i suggest you shut the hell up before talking shit about players and making retarded excuses for others. Damn it sorry, people like you make me so angry.
On January 29 2012 20:11 Choboo wrote: wow second best korean in the world vs nerchio only 5-4 I'm impressed!
wasnt aware that Nerchio was playing MMA.
mma is #1
lmao then what the heck's that make mvp?
I'm sorry but MVP is not near MMA in neither achievements (since recent GSL titles are way harder to get than at the time MVP won) nor skill-level but maybe he's #2 but I still think Jjakji plays better than MVP recently
On January 29 2012 20:11 Choboo wrote: wow second best korean in the world vs nerchio only 5-4 I'm impressed!
wasnt aware that Nerchio was playing MMA.
mma is #1
lmao then what the heck's that make mvp?
I'm sorry but MVP is not near MMA in neither achievements (since recent GSL titles are way harder to get than at the time MVP won) nor skill-level but maybe he's #2 but I still think Jjakji plays better than MVP recently
That and out of the last 3 GSL competitions MMA won 2 of them
You really do talk some crap.
MVP has won 3 GSL's, Blizzcon, MLG Anaheim, WCG.
He's also made the finals of a GSL, and the semi finals of two other GSL's and the final of a Code A.
MVP is easilly the best player in the world.
Jjakji on the other hand has won one GSL, ever. That is it.
Jjakji's isn't even in the worlds top 5 best players.
He's behind MVP, MMA, DRG, Nestea, Leenock and MC.
One tournament does make you the best player in the world. I like Jjakji and his play but he got so unbelievable lucky with his bracket last Code S. He dodged most of the worlds best players except for MVP (who he lost to) and Leenock and got a free pass through the second group stage because of the Coca drama. He barely beat Oz (a good up and comer but not an absolutely top player) and then beat Leenock in the final. Aside from the Nestea win where he dodged every Terran except Ensnare it was the easiest ever path to winning Code S ever. Even in this season he drew two of the worst players in Code S (other candidates include Yugioh, Zenio and Idra) in Boxer and Sen and then almost lost to Boxer anyway while Ganzi completely stomped him.
Jangbi is not BW's best Protoss, Stephano was never the worlds best Zerg and Thorzain was never the worlds best Terran. You need consistency over several months and multiple achievements to reach that level, you also need to beat the other best players around. The only other players Jjakji has beaten in the top six is Leenock.
On January 29 2012 20:11 Choboo wrote: wow second best korean in the world vs nerchio only 5-4 I'm impressed!
wasnt aware that Nerchio was playing MMA.
mma is #1
lmao then what the heck's that make mvp?
I'm sorry but MVP is not near MMA in neither achievements (since recent GSL titles are way harder to get than at the time MVP won) nor skill-level but maybe he's #2 but I still think Jjakji plays better than MVP recently
That and out of the last 3 GSL competitions MMA won 2 of them
You really do talk some crap.
MVP has won 3 GSL's, Blizzcon, MLG Anaheim, WCG.
He's also made the finals of a GSL, and the semi finals of two other GSL's and the final of a Code A.
MVP is easilly the best player in the world.
Jjakji on the other hand has won one GSL, ever. That is it.
Jjakji's isn't even in the worlds top 5 best players.
He's behind MVP, MMA, DRG, Nestea, Leenock and MC.
One tournament does make you the best player in the world. I like Jjakji and his play but he got so unbelievable lucky with his bracket last Code S. He dodged most of the worlds best players except for MVP (who he lost to) and Leenock and got a free pass through the second group stage because of the Coca drama. He barely beat Oz (a good up and comer but not an absolutely top player) and then beat Leenock in the final. Aside from the Nestea win where he dodged every Terran except Ensnare it was the easiest ever path to winning Code S ever. Even in this season he drew two of the worst players in Code S (other candidates include Yugioh, Zenio and Idra) in Boxer and Sen and then almost lost to Boxer anyway while Ganzi completely stomped him.
Jangbi is not BW's best Protoss, Stephano was never the worlds best Zerg and Thorzain was never the worlds best Terran. You need consistency over several months and multiple achievements to reach that level, you also need to beat the other best players around. The only other players Jjakji has beaten in the top six is Leenock.
While I agree that his road to championship was comparatively easy, I will also say that considering Leenock and MC above Jjakji in a Top X is somewhat arbitrary. Leenock could be as a one-hit-wonder as Jjakji, and it is still unclear to me whether MC deserves to be called among the very best after his slump. That said, I think that one of the best testament to Jjakji's effective skill is that he had been among the very last players to be picked in his code S runs. This will change now, as his relatively weak TvT will make him a good target for strong mirror-matchers, but he still has the skill and capability to prove himself after the group stages: the way he played against Leenock seemed to suggest that he is a player capable of strategy and planning, which is a very good skill in the GSL and arguably one of the strengths that allowed MMA to succeed so much.
On January 29 2012 20:11 Choboo wrote: wow second best korean in the world vs nerchio only 5-4 I'm impressed!
wasnt aware that Nerchio was playing MMA.
mma is #1
lmao then what the heck's that make mvp?
I'm sorry but MVP is not near MMA in neither achievements (since recent GSL titles are way harder to get than at the time MVP won) nor skill-level but maybe he's #2 but I still think Jjakji plays better than MVP recently
That and out of the last 3 GSL competitions MMA won 2 of them
You really do talk some crap.
MVP has won 3 GSL's, Blizzcon, MLG Anaheim, WCG.
He's also made the finals of a GSL, and the semi finals of two other GSL's and the final of a Code A.
MVP is easilly the best player in the world.
Jjakji on the other hand has won one GSL, ever. That is it.
Jjakji's isn't even in the worlds top 5 best players.
He's behind MVP, MMA, DRG, Nestea, Leenock and MC.
One tournament does make you the best player in the world. I like Jjakji and his play but he got so unbelievable lucky with his bracket last Code S. He dodged most of the worlds best players except for MVP (who he lost to) and Leenock and got a free pass through the second group stage because of the Coca drama. He barely beat Oz (a good up and comer but not an absolutely top player) and then beat Leenock in the final. Aside from the Nestea win where he dodged every Terran except Ensnare it was the easiest ever path to winning Code S ever. Even in this season he drew two of the worst players in Code S (other candidates include Yugioh, Zenio and Idra) in Boxer and Sen and then almost lost to Boxer anyway while Ganzi completely stomped him.
Jangbi is not BW's best Protoss, Stephano was never the worlds best Zerg and Thorzain was never the worlds best Terran. You need consistency over several months and multiple achievements to reach that level, you also need to beat the other best players around. The only other players Jjakji has beaten in the top six is Leenock.
While I agree that his road to championship was comparatively easy, I will also say that considering Leenock and MC above Jjakji in a Top X is somewhat arbitrary. Leenock could be as a one-hit-wonder as Jjakji, and it is still unclear to me whether MC deserves to be called among the very best after his slump. That said, I think that one of the best testament to Jjakji's effective skill is that he had been among the very last players to be picked in his code S runs. This will change now, as his relatively weak TvT will make him a good target for strong mirror-matchers, but he still has the skill and capability to prove himself after the group stages: the way he played against Leenock seemed to suggest that he is a player capable of strategy and planning, which is a very good skill in the GSL and arguably one of the strengths that allowed MMA to succeed so much.
Leenock has a Code S final and his Providence win in his favour. He's also been in and around Code S for much longer than Jjakji. Leenock has also beaten MMA in a ZvT bo3 and MVP in both a bo3 and bo5. He's beaten DRG in a ZvZ best of 7 and Nestea in a ZvZ bo1. Leenock doesn't have MVP or MMA's depth of results but he's placed better in more tournaments and beaten of the other guys around him in BoX series. Where as Jjakji's doesn't have that depth and has largely dodged all the other top players.
MC is ahead of Jjakji by virtue of being consistantly good for such a long period of time as well as having won major tournaments. It's a long time since he won a Code S sure but I'd place his endless stream of top 3 finishes across Korea and the world ahead of literally one Code S win ever and nothing else. MC has again also beaten all of those around him except for Nestea and DRG.
Jjakji is a really good player don't get me wrong and if he places Ro4 or better in this GSL and makes something happen at an MLG/Assembly etc.. then he can quickly move up to the top positions, but he still has quite a bit to prove.
On January 29 2012 20:11 Choboo wrote: wow second best korean in the world vs nerchio only 5-4 I'm impressed!
wasnt aware that Nerchio was playing MMA.
mma is #1
lmao then what the heck's that make mvp?
I'm sorry but MVP is not near MMA in neither achievements (since recent GSL titles are way harder to get than at the time MVP won) nor skill-level but maybe he's #2 but I still think Jjakji plays better than MVP recently
That and out of the last 3 GSL competitions MMA won 2 of them
You really do talk some crap.
MVP has won 3 GSL's, Blizzcon, MLG Anaheim, WCG.
He's also made the finals of a GSL, and the semi finals of two other GSL's and the final of a Code A.
MVP is easilly the best player in the world.
Jjakji on the other hand has won one GSL, ever. That is it.
Jjakji's isn't even in the worlds top 5 best players.
He's behind MVP, MMA, DRG, Nestea, Leenock and MC.
One tournament does make you the best player in the world. I like Jjakji and his play but he got so unbelievable lucky with his bracket last Code S. He dodged most of the worlds best players except for MVP (who he lost to) and Leenock and got a free pass through the second group stage because of the Coca drama. He barely beat Oz (a good up and comer but not an absolutely top player) and then beat Leenock in the final. Aside from the Nestea win where he dodged every Terran except Ensnare it was the easiest ever path to winning Code S ever. Even in this season he drew two of the worst players in Code S (other candidates include Yugioh, Zenio and Idra) in Boxer and Sen and then almost lost to Boxer anyway while Ganzi completely stomped him.
Jangbi is not BW's best Protoss, Stephano was never the worlds best Zerg and Thorzain was never the worlds best Terran. You need consistency over several months and multiple achievements to reach that level, you also need to beat the other best players around. The only other players Jjakji has beaten in the top six is Leenock.
While I agree that his road to championship was comparatively easy, I will also say that considering Leenock and MC above Jjakji in a Top X is somewhat arbitrary. Leenock could be as a one-hit-wonder as Jjakji, and it is still unclear to me whether MC deserves to be called among the very best after his slump. That said, I think that one of the best testament to Jjakji's effective skill is that he had been among the very last players to be picked in his code S runs. This will change now, as his relatively weak TvT will make him a good target for strong mirror-matchers, but he still has the skill and capability to prove himself after the group stages: the way he played against Leenock seemed to suggest that he is a player capable of strategy and planning, which is a very good skill in the GSL and arguably one of the strengths that allowed MMA to succeed so much.
Leenock has a Code S final and his Providence win in his favour. He's also been in and around Code S for much longer than Jjakji. Leenock has also beaten MMA in a ZvT bo3 and MVP in both a bo3 and bo5. He's beaten DRG in a ZvZ best of 7 and Nestea in a ZvZ bo1. Leenock doesn't have MVP or MMA's depth of results but he's placed better in more tournaments and beaten of the other guys around him in BoX series. Where as Jjakji's doesn't have that depth and has largely dodged all the other top players.
MC is ahead of Jjakji by virtue of being consistantly good for such a long period of time as well as having won major tournaments. It's a long time since he won a Code S sure but I'd place his endless stream of top 3 finishes across Korea and the world ahead of literally one Code S win ever and nothing else. MC has again also beaten all of those around him except for Nestea and DRG.
Jjakji is a really good player don't get me wrong and if he places Ro4 or better in this GSL and makes something happen at an MLG/Assembly etc.. then he can quickly move up to the top positions, but he still has quite a bit to prove.
Result-wise, you are absolutely right. (I thought that Leenock had lost some unremarkable games recently, but I can't find the results; that would mean that I simply recalled wrong.) What I find difficult, or unfair, is to rank players' absolute skill on account of hard scores which can be very sparse on a timeline, and include tournaments with different formats that can favour certain skillsets and players to a limited, but not insignificant, extent. Edit: even the respective team's financial ability of sending out a member to a foreign event can skew this kind of comparisons. Largely, mine is merely a semantic pedantry, though.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
Stop saying this. No one is Code A/Code S until they actually go there. Every "gosu crushes top koreans" foreigner we've seen go to Korea recently has struck out in the first or second round of Code A
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
Stop saying this. No one is Code A/Code S until they actually go there. Every "gosu crushes top koreans" foreigner we've seen go to Korea recently has struck out in the first or second round of Code A
Pretty much. Nerchio is a good player, but taking games off a top player in an online, cross-server showmatch and having consistent success in the GSL are two very different things.
On January 29 2012 14:20 FidoDido wrote: I'm sure lag was not a factor at all. Nerchio is just a GSL champion level player.
no he's not.
he outplayed jjakji in some of these games pretty hard. Nerchio is top 5-10 zerg in the world probably so...
I think it's a little early to be making statements like that. Sure, he looked good today but I've also seen him humiliated by players like Whitera fairly recently.
??? Nerchio has been showing very good results consistently against some koreans too...
he's been around for a pretty long time, top3 zerg in Europe.
And what notable series victories does he have over top Koreans? . . . Exactly. He's a top foreigner, but calling him a top in the world is ridiculous and baseless
what are the top korean zergs right now? nestea drg leenock and curious? ok all the other ones are no better than foreign top zergs...
He's beaten hero and violet according to tlpd...
top foreigner isn't that far from top korean
Lol yes they are.... Look at HuK, IdrA, Stephano, SaSe, NaNiwa. all of them in code A/B. That is very FAR from top koreans which i assume you are talking about Top 20 Code S
Sorry my friend but you have your stats all wrong. Idra is code S Huk is code S Stephano doesnt play in GSL at all he never tried to Naniwa is former code S and was kicked out for his probe rushing antics SaSe im not sure never checked
On January 29 2012 14:20 FidoDido wrote: I'm sure lag was not a factor at all. Nerchio is just a GSL champion level player.
no he's not.
he outplayed jjakji in some of these games pretty hard. Nerchio is top 5-10 zerg in the world probably so...
I think it's a little early to be making statements like that. Sure, he looked good today but I've also seen him humiliated by players like Whitera fairly recently.
??? Nerchio has been showing very good results consistently against some koreans too...
he's been around for a pretty long time, top3 zerg in Europe.
And what notable series victories does he have over top Koreans? . . . Exactly. He's a top foreigner, but calling him a top in the world is ridiculous and baseless
what are the top korean zergs right now? nestea drg leenock and curious? ok all the other ones are no better than foreign top zergs...
He's beaten hero and violet according to tlpd...
top foreigner isn't that far from top korean
Lol yes they are.... Look at HuK, IdrA, Stephano, SaSe, NaNiwa. all of them in code A/B. That is very FAR from top koreans which i assume you are talking about Top 20 Code S
Sorry my friend but you have your stats all wrong. Idra is code S Huk is code S Stephano doesnt play in GSL at all he never tried to Naniwa is former code S and was kicked out for his probe rushing antics SaSe im not sure never checked
Wow, do you actually know what you're talking about?
- IdrA and HuK aren't Code S anymore (and since they'll probably face each other in Code A, only one of them could get back in Code S).
- Naniwa has never been in Code S and was given a spot.
Missed this the first time so watching the replay... gotta say Nerchio's roach drop play is very entertaining, it's like playing Terran I would assume it only works vs. pure mech though.
On January 30 2012 03:12 bootyclapthunder wrote: Jjakji is not playing seriously. He knows the meta-game quite well and understands its viability. He is not taking these games seriously.
You must be friend with Jjakji to know such a thing, right?
On January 30 2012 03:12 bootyclapthunder wrote: Jjakji is not playing seriously. He knows the meta-game quite well and understands its viability. He is not taking these games seriously.
On January 29 2012 20:11 Choboo wrote: wow second best korean in the world vs nerchio only 5-4 I'm impressed!
wasnt aware that Nerchio was playing MMA.
mma is #1
lmao then what the heck's that make mvp?
I'm sorry but MVP is not near MMA in neither achievements (since recent GSL titles are way harder to get than at the time MVP won) nor skill-level but maybe he's #2 but I still think Jjakji plays better than MVP recently
That and out of the last 3 GSL competitions MMA won 2 of them
You really do talk some crap.
MVP has won 3 GSL's, Blizzcon, MLG Anaheim, WCG.
He's also made the finals of a GSL, and the semi finals of two other GSL's and the final of a Code A.
MVP is easilly the best player in the world.
Jjakji on the other hand has won one GSL, ever. That is it.
Jjakji's isn't even in the worlds top 5 best players.
He's behind MVP, MMA, DRG, Nestea, Leenock and MC.
One tournament does make you the best player in the world. I like Jjakji and his play but he got so unbelievable lucky with his bracket last Code S. He dodged most of the worlds best players except for MVP (who he lost to) and Leenock and got a free pass through the second group stage because of the Coca drama. He barely beat Oz (a good up and comer but not an absolutely top player) and then beat Leenock in the final. Aside from the Nestea win where he dodged every Terran except Ensnare it was the easiest ever path to winning Code S ever. Even in this season he drew two of the worst players in Code S (other candidates include Yugioh, Zenio and Idra) in Boxer and Sen and then almost lost to Boxer anyway while Ganzi completely stomped him.
Jangbi is not BW's best Protoss, Stephano was never the worlds best Zerg and Thorzain was never the worlds best Terran. You need consistency over several months and multiple achievements to reach that level, you also need to beat the other best players around. The only other players Jjakji has beaten in the top six is Leenock.
I never claimed that Jjakji has better results than MVP, just that I THINK that he is playing better than MVP RECENTLY. I guess we'll see in GSL January though...
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
Your bias is disgusting.
So you take 1 showmatch, that really has no implications that was played online with lag and you think this proves there is no gap.
YET, in code A qualifiers all the top foreigners that have tried so far have gotten stomped.
Yea ok.
You can tell from the showmatch, JJaki wasn't going 100%. Jjaki >>>>>> nerchio sorry.
On January 29 2012 20:11 Choboo wrote: wow second best korean in the world vs nerchio only 5-4 I'm impressed!
wasnt aware that Nerchio was playing MMA.
mma is #1
lmao then what the heck's that make mvp?
I'm sorry but MVP is not near MMA in neither achievements (since recent GSL titles are way harder to get than at the time MVP won) nor skill-level but maybe he's #2 but I still think Jjakji plays better than MVP recently
That and out of the last 3 GSL competitions MMA won 2 of them
You really do talk some crap.
MVP has won 3 GSL's, Blizzcon, MLG Anaheim, WCG.
He's also made the finals of a GSL, and the semi finals of two other GSL's and the final of a Code A.
MVP is easilly the best player in the world.
Jjakji on the other hand has won one GSL, ever. That is it.
Jjakji's isn't even in the worlds top 5 best players.
He's behind MVP, MMA, DRG, Nestea, Leenock and MC.
One tournament does make you the best player in the world. I like Jjakji and his play but he got so unbelievable lucky with his bracket last Code S. He dodged most of the worlds best players except for MVP (who he lost to) and Leenock and got a free pass through the second group stage because of the Coca drama. He barely beat Oz (a good up and comer but not an absolutely top player) and then beat Leenock in the final. Aside from the Nestea win where he dodged every Terran except Ensnare it was the easiest ever path to winning Code S ever. Even in this season he drew two of the worst players in Code S (other candidates include Yugioh, Zenio and Idra) in Boxer and Sen and then almost lost to Boxer anyway while Ganzi completely stomped him.
Jangbi is not BW's best Protoss, Stephano was never the worlds best Zerg and Thorzain was never the worlds best Terran. You need consistency over several months and multiple achievements to reach that level, you also need to beat the other best players around. The only other players Jjakji has beaten in the top six is Leenock.
While I agree that his road to championship was comparatively easy, I will also say that considering Leenock and MC above Jjakji in a Top X is somewhat arbitrary. Leenock could be as a one-hit-wonder as Jjakji, and it is still unclear to me whether MC deserves to be called among the very best after his slump. That said, I think that one of the best testament to Jjakji's effective skill is that he had been among the very last players to be picked in his code S runs. This will change now, as his relatively weak TvT will make him a good target for strong mirror-matchers, but he still has the skill and capability to prove himself after the group stages: the way he played against Leenock seemed to suggest that he is a player capable of strategy and planning, which is a very good skill in the GSL and arguably one of the strengths that allowed MMA to succeed so much.
Leenock has a Code S final and his Providence win in his favour. He's also been in and around Code S for much longer than Jjakji. Leenock has also beaten MMA in a ZvT bo3 and MVP in both a bo3 and bo5. He's beaten DRG in a ZvZ best of 7 and Nestea in a ZvZ bo1. Leenock doesn't have MVP or MMA's depth of results but he's placed better in more tournaments and beaten of the other guys around him in BoX series. Where as Jjakji's doesn't have that depth and has largely dodged all the other top players.
MC is ahead of Jjakji by virtue of being consistantly good for such a long period of time as well as having won major tournaments. It's a long time since he won a Code S sure but I'd place his endless stream of top 3 finishes across Korea and the world ahead of literally one Code S win ever and nothing else. MC has again also beaten all of those around him except for Nestea and DRG.
Jjakji is a really good player don't get me wrong and if he places Ro4 or better in this GSL and makes something happen at an MLG/Assembly etc.. then he can quickly move up to the top positions, but he still has quite a bit to prove.
Result-wise, you are absolutely right. (I thought that Leenock had lost some unremarkable games recently, but I can't find the results; that would mean that I simply recalled wrong.) What I find difficult, or unfair, is to rank players' absolute skill on account of hard scores which can be very sparse on a timeline, and include tournaments with different formats that can favour certain skillsets and players to a limited, but not insignificant, extent. Edit: even the respective team's financial ability of sending out a member to a foreign event can skew this kind of comparisons. Largely, mine is merely a semantic pedantry, though.
Beaten by Illusion 2-0 in KSL. Beaten by July 2-1 in FXO Invitational. Beaten by True 2-0 in KSL. Beaten by DreamerTT in KSL Team League.
He's had some unimpressive losses outside of GSL, but so has everyone else.
1) Player x not playing seriously; 2) Cross-server lag; 3) Played at unreasonable hours.
I read these a lot in showmatches threads. If they are true, it means these showmatches are "hurting" eSports. I think this would make for an interesting topic to discuss.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Whoa whoa whoa.
Nerchio is better than all those (highly) overrated players.
On January 30 2012 03:22 cyclone25 wrote: 1) Player x not playing seriously; 2) Cross-server lag; 3) Played at unreasonable hours.
I read these a lot in showmatches threads. If they are true, it means these showmatches are "hurting" eSports. I think this would make for an interesting topic to discuss.
dumb logic.
It's a SHOWMATCH.
It's like an exhibition.
Sort of like the all pro game being played tonight for the NFL.
nobody goes all out, it's for show. or like an exhibition match in boxing, it's a given both fighters are not going all out.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
Your bias is disgusting.
So you take 1 showmatch, that really has no implications that was played online with lag and you think this proves there is no gap.
YET, in code A qualifiers all the top foreigners that have tried so far have gotten stomped.
Yea ok.
You can tell from the showmatch, JJaki wasn't going 100%. Jjaki >>>>>> nerchio sorry.
players like Puma, Bomber and DRG has also got stomped in code A qualifiers very many times before making it / haven't even made it yet (Puma T__T).
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Whoa whoa whoa.
Nerchio is better than all those (highly) overrated players.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Whoa whoa whoa.
Nerchio is better than all those (highly) overrated players.
nerchio better than Naniwa? LOL
Naniwa is the most overrated foreigner in recent times. His PvZ is horrible stuff. Nerchio is far stronger all around.
@Hazuc View his statistics on TLPD vs Zerg players in Korea. Make a comparison of the worth of his Zerg opponent(s) and compare that to skill of Nerchio. He is not a terrible player but does not have the caliber of GSL Zerg players in Code S.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Whoa whoa whoa.
Nerchio is better than all those (highly) overrated players.
nerchio better than Naniwa? LOL
Naniwa is the most overrated foreigner in recent times. His PvZ is horrible stuff. Nerchio is far stronger all around.
I want to answer you but sorry I've promised myself to try to not to argue with trolls
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Whoa whoa whoa.
Nerchio is better than all those (highly) overrated players.
nerchio better than Naniwa? LOL
Naniwa is the most overrated foreigner in recent times. His PvZ is horrible stuff. Nerchio is far stronger all around.
I want to answer you but sorry I've promised myself to try to not to argue with trolls
Deny the truth all you want, but Naniwa is still woeful in PvZ. He lost 3-1 to Zenio. Zenio, for god's sake! -_-
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Whoa whoa whoa.
Nerchio is better than all those (highly) overrated players.
nerchio better than Naniwa? LOL
Naniwa is the most overrated foreigner in recent times. His PvZ is horrible stuff. Nerchio is far stronger all around.
naniwa has horrible pvz? really? ever watched his stream? only because he has some troubles with allins and stuff like doesnt mean he has bad pvz.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Whoa whoa whoa.
Nerchio is better than all those (highly) overrated players.
nerchio better than Naniwa? LOL
Naniwa is the most overrated foreigner in recent times. His PvZ is horrible stuff. Nerchio is far stronger all around.
naniwa has horrible pvz? really? ever watched his stream? only because he has some troubles with allins and stuff like doesnt mean he has bad pvz.
Everyone looks like a god on their stream, so your point is irrelevant. Tournaments are a whole different ballgame.
Some troubles with all-ins? He literally rolls over and dies to zerg all-ins in every tournament.
Nerchio is one of the smartest foreign SC2 zergs . I personally wouldn't be surprised if he easily made code A . His level is up there with Stephano , Dimaga , Idra , Sen and Ret . I don't think he is worse then the 3 swedish players mentioned above .
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
Your bias is disgusting.
So you take 1 showmatch, that really has no implications that was played online with lag and you think this proves there is no gap.
YET, in code A qualifiers all the top foreigners that have tried so far have gotten stomped.
Yea ok.
You can tell from the showmatch, JJaki wasn't going 100%. Jjaki >>>>>> nerchio sorry.
players like Puma, Bomber and DRG has also got stomped in code A qualifiers very many times before making it / haven't even made it yet (Puma T__T).
in the end they made it, it's stupid to say nercho is a code S superstar when not 1 foreigner has shown the level of dominance in code S like say MVP. Especially when very good players like thorzain failed in code A or how naniwa is what 1-10 in gsl?
let's actually wait for nerchio to get into code A and then code S (if he even attempts) before we call him a freaking code S superstar is my point.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Whoa whoa whoa.
Nerchio is better than all those (highly) overrated players.
nerchio better than Naniwa? LOL
Naniwa is the most overrated foreigner in recent times. His PvZ is horrible stuff. Nerchio is far stronger all around.
naniwa has horrible pvz? really? ever watched his stream? only because he has some troubles with allins and stuff like doesnt mean he has bad pvz.
Everyone looks like a god on their stream, so your point is irrelevant. Tournaments are a whole different ballgame.
you judge his pvz skills based on some games where he got allined and lost. troll somewhere else dude.
i can remember him beating nestea and drg in an offline tournament. so... what exactly is your point?
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Whoa whoa whoa.
Nerchio is better than all those (highly) overrated players.
nerchio better than Naniwa? LOL
Naniwa is the most overrated foreigner in recent times. His PvZ is horrible stuff. Nerchio is far stronger all around.
naniwa has horrible pvz? really? ever watched his stream? only because he has some troubles with allins and stuff like doesnt mean he has bad pvz.
Everyone looks like a god on their stream, so your point is irrelevant. Tournaments are a whole different ballgame.
you judge his pvz skills based on some games where he got allined and lost. troll somewhere else dude.
A great player does not consistently lose to the same strategies over and over again.
He also lacks flexibility in his compositions, is generally inflexible when it comes to his overall game plan, and never tries to control the momentum of a PvZ game.
Beating a slumping Nestea and a DRG who just threw up before the match with 2 base colossi all-ins is so impressive.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Whoa whoa whoa.
Nerchio is better than all those (highly) overrated players.
Yes, at homestory cup 4 we saw that - unlike for instance Huk - Nerchio has no problems dealing with players such as MC. He has certainly proven his superiority.
At least Nerchio has not felt the shame of losing to HasuObs, Titan, and Seiplo. PvP's a real bitch, eh?
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Whoa whoa whoa.
Nerchio is better than all those (highly) overrated players.
Yes, at homestory cup 4 we saw that - unlike for instance Huk - Nerchio has no problems dealing with players such as MC. He has certainly proven his superiority.
Edit: haha ok I see that huk wasn't actually mentioned in the earlier post! Disregard me!
Granted, point is though, time and again people have hyped up this and that foreigner as "easily" code-a/s lvl and time and again they try and do not deliver.
On January 30 2012 03:31 raga4ka wrote: Nerchio is one of the smartest foreign SC2 zergs . I personally wouldn't be surprised if he easily made code A . His level is up there with Stephano , Dimaga , Idra , Sen and Ret . I don't think he is worse then the 3 swedish players mentioned above .
I agree that Nerchio is very good. But easily get code A is just a guess?
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
Your bias is disgusting.
So you take 1 showmatch, that really has no implications that was played online with lag and you think this proves there is no gap.
YET, in code A qualifiers all the top foreigners that have tried so far have gotten stomped.
Yea ok.
You can tell from the showmatch, JJaki wasn't going 100%. Jjaki >>>>>> nerchio sorry.
players like Puma, Bomber and DRG has also got stomped in code A qualifiers very many times before making it / haven't even made it yet (Puma T__T).
in the end they made it, it's stupid to say nercho is a code S superstar when not 1 foreigner has shown the level of dominance in code S like say MVP. Especially when very good players like thorzain failed in code A or how naniwa is what 1-10 in gsl?
let's actually wait for nerchio to get into code A and then code S (if he even attempts) before we call him a freaking code S superstar is my point.
maybe naniwa will be code s champion in the end? we don't know yet since they have played code a so few times compared to koreans
On January 30 2012 03:31 raga4ka wrote: Nerchio is one of the smartest foreign SC2 zergs . I personally wouldn't be surprised if he easily made code A . His level is up there with Stephano , Dimaga , Idra , Sen and Ret . I don't think he is worse then the 3 swedish players mentioned above .
I agree that Nerchio is very good. But easily get code A is just a guess?
Well yeah . Geting in to code A depends a lot on luck whenever you get a hard group or an easier one , but he is a solid player and i think he can make it .
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
I find that more and more of these terrible opinions come from 2-3k+ posters - which is when i feel like post count (and thus tenure at TL) is slowly becoming completely meaningless. You cannot say that Nerchio is Code A material from a showmatch played CROSS-SERVER. You just can't. NO foreigner has made into the "modern Code A" format on his own and won multiple series except for HuK, and even he received a free pass into GSL. He is less than Code A material. He's Code NOTHING material. He's just a really good foreigner. Don't try to extrapolate his successes from a EU environment into a Korean environment and claim that he would even do remotely well first thing upon landing. Evidence is against you and any other Nerchio fanboy. I'm by no means a hater, and best of luck to the guy and his future ventures, but people spouting mindless praise just annoys me.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
I find that more and more of these terrible opinions come from 2-3k+ posters - which is when i feel like post count (and thus tenure at TL) is slowly becoming completely meaningless. You cannot say that Nerchio is Code A material from a showmatch played CROSS-SERVER. You just can't. NO foreigner has made into the "modern Code A" format on his own and won multiple series except for HuK, and even he received a free pass into GSL. He is less than Code A material. He's Code NOTHING material. He's just a really good foreigner. Don't try to extrapolate his successes from a EU environment into a Korean environment and claim that he would even do remotely well first thing upon landing. Evidence is against you and any other Nerchio fanboy. I'm by no means a hater, and best of luck to the guy and his future ventures, but people spouting mindless praise just annoys me.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
I find that more and more of these terrible opinions come from 2-3k+ posters - which is when i feel like post count (and thus tenure at TL) is slowly becoming completely meaningless.
you because you voice your opinion more often (higher post count) doesnt make it any more sensible, the logic that you apply is just broken from the start.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
I find that more and more of these terrible opinions come from 2-3k+ posters - which is when i feel like post count (and thus tenure at TL) is slowly becoming completely meaningless. You cannot say that Nerchio is Code A material from a showmatch played CROSS-SERVER. You just can't. NO foreigner has made into the "modern Code A" format on his own and won multiple series except for HuK, and even he received a free pass into GSL. He is less than Code A material. He's Code NOTHING material. He's just a really good foreigner. Don't try to extrapolate his successes from a EU environment into a Korean environment and claim that he would even do remotely well first thing upon landing. Evidence is against you and any other Nerchio fanboy. I'm by no means a hater, and best of luck to the guy and his future ventures, but people spouting mindless praise just annoys me.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
I find that more and more of these terrible opinions come from 2-3k+ posters - which is when i feel like post count (and thus tenure at TL) is slowly becoming completely meaningless.
you because you voice your opinion more often (higher post count) doesnt make it any more sensible, the logic that you apply is just broken from the start.
So that makes my claim that extrapolated opinions should be reserved entirely until real results are actually shown is broken logic? My statement of meaningless post count comes from the fact that I see 1k-3k+ posters post biased or downright incorrect statements. Senseless posters with high post counts very often get weeded out due to mods, which is why I have higher level of scrutiny towards users with higher post counts, as they often have things to say of higher quality than your ~50 post probe/scv/drone.
Stop freaking arguing, you're all a bunch of idiots.
Fact is, no one knows what the fuck Nerchio will do it he goes to Korea. Maybe he'll flop in Code B or maybe he'll win Code S without dropping a game, who knows? Personally I think given a few attempts I think he could qualify for Code A, but would never get past the ro.16. That's my opinion based on his level of play and other foreigner's results there.
Stop spouting bullshit like "code A ezpz", because we honestly don't know.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
I find that more and more of these terrible opinions come from 2-3k+ posters - which is when i feel like post count (and thus tenure at TL) is slowly becoming completely meaningless. You cannot say that Nerchio is Code A material from a showmatch played CROSS-SERVER. You just can't. NO foreigner has made into the "modern Code A" format on his own and won multiple series except for HuK, and even he received a free pass into GSL. He is less than Code A material. He's Code NOTHING material. He's just a really good foreigner. Don't try to extrapolate his successes from a EU environment into a Korean environment and claim that he would even do remotely well first thing upon landing. Evidence is against you and any other Nerchio fanboy. I'm by no means a hater, and best of luck to the guy and his future ventures, but people spouting mindless praise just annoys me.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
I find that more and more of these terrible opinions come from 2-3k+ posters - which is when i feel like post count (and thus tenure at TL) is slowly becoming completely meaningless. You cannot say that Nerchio is Code A material from a showmatch played CROSS-SERVER. You just can't. NO foreigner has made into the "modern Code A" format on his own and won multiple series except for HuK, and even he received a free pass into GSL. He is less than Code A material. He's Code NOTHING material. He's just a really good foreigner. Don't try to extrapolate his successes from a EU environment into a Korean environment and claim that he would even do remotely well first thing upon landing. Evidence is against you and any other Nerchio fanboy. I'm by no means a hater, and best of luck to the guy and his future ventures, but people spouting mindless praise just annoys me.
Not to mention Nerchio just got rocked a second ago by Beastyqt in SCAN. That's how baseless most opinions are. <3<3
Beastyqt is not exactly a bad player if you follow his progress . He is just under the radar most of the time and is one of the most underrated players in the foreign scene . Zenio was in Code-S and still lost to Kas , that doesn't automatically make him a bad player also . Results in the foreign scene are to unstable and you can't see who is better then who because koreans come and sweep the tournaments with them .
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
I find that more and more of these terrible opinions come from 2-3k+ posters - which is when i feel like post count (and thus tenure at TL) is slowly becoming completely meaningless. You cannot say that Nerchio is Code A material from a showmatch played CROSS-SERVER. You just can't. NO foreigner has made into the "modern Code A" format on his own and won multiple series except for HuK, and even he received a free pass into GSL. He is less than Code A material. He's Code NOTHING material. He's just a really good foreigner. Don't try to extrapolate his successes from a EU environment into a Korean environment and claim that he would even do remotely well first thing upon landing. Evidence is against you and any other Nerchio fanboy. I'm by no means a hater, and best of luck to the guy and his future ventures, but people spouting mindless praise just annoys me.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
I find that more and more of these terrible opinions come from 2-3k+ posters - which is when i feel like post count (and thus tenure at TL) is slowly becoming completely meaningless. You cannot say that Nerchio is Code A material from a showmatch played CROSS-SERVER. You just can't. NO foreigner has made into the "modern Code A" format on his own and won multiple series except for HuK, and even he received a free pass into GSL. He is less than Code A material. He's Code NOTHING material. He's just a really good foreigner. Don't try to extrapolate his successes from a EU environment into a Korean environment and claim that he would even do remotely well first thing upon landing. Evidence is against you and any other Nerchio fanboy. I'm by no means a hater, and best of luck to the guy and his future ventures, but people spouting mindless praise just annoys me.
Not to mention Nerchio just got rocked a second ago by Beastyqt in SCAN. That's how baseless most opinions are. <3<3
Beastyqt is not exactly a bad player if you follow his progress . He is just under the radar most of the time and is one of the most underrated players in the foreign scene . Zenio was in Code-S and still lost to Kas , that doesn't automatically make him a bad player also . Results in the foreign scene are to unstable and you can't see who is better then who because koreans come and sweep the tournaments with them .
also you could see that Nerchio "wasnt even trying" since he went muta on game 1
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Whoa whoa whoa.
Nerchio is better than all those (highly) overrated players.
nerchio better than Naniwa? LOL
Naniwa is the most overrated foreigner in recent times. His PvZ is horrible stuff. Nerchio is far stronger all around.
naniwa has horrible pvz? really? ever watched his stream? only because he has some troubles with allins and stuff like doesnt mean he has bad pvz.
Everyone looks like a god on their stream, so your point is irrelevant. Tournaments are a whole different ballgame.
Some troubles with all-ins? He literally rolls over and dies to zerg all-ins in every tournament.
What? Since when does everyone look like a god on their stream? watch Naniwa and you'll see him roflstomp through top koreans on ladder. Even Day9 watched Naniwa's stream once and was in disbelief at the micro he showed in one of his games. Zenio's not even a bad player, only in ZvT, so I'm not sure what your point was there
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
I find that more and more of these terrible opinions come from 2-3k+ posters - which is when i feel like post count (and thus tenure at TL) is slowly becoming completely meaningless. You cannot say that Nerchio is Code A material from a showmatch played CROSS-SERVER. You just can't. NO foreigner has made into the "modern Code A" format on his own and won multiple series except for HuK, and even he received a free pass into GSL. He is less than Code A material. He's Code NOTHING material. He's just a really good foreigner. Don't try to extrapolate his successes from a EU environment into a Korean environment and claim that he would even do remotely well first thing upon landing. Evidence is against you and any other Nerchio fanboy. I'm by no means a hater, and best of luck to the guy and his future ventures, but people spouting mindless praise just annoys me.
Not to mention Nerchio just got rocked a second ago by Beastyqt in SCAN. That's how baseless most opinions are. <3<3
In online event, ur post is baseless
My argument has to do with claims of EU pro becoming KR pro. SCAN is EU only? I'll stop derailing thread though. <3
oh, I thought on-line event is an on-line event no matter the lag issues :> For example, on IPL2 nerchio playing from EU on NA server 3-0d IdrA. Then his (IdrA) fanbase was bringing "on-line event" case even though Nerchio was disadvanteged...
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Whoa whoa whoa.
Nerchio is better than all those (highly) overrated players.
nerchio better than Naniwa? LOL
Naniwa is the most overrated foreigner in recent times. His PvZ is horrible stuff. Nerchio is far stronger all around.
naniwa has horrible pvz? really? ever watched his stream? only because he has some troubles with allins and stuff like doesnt mean he has bad pvz.
Everyone looks like a god on their stream, so your point is irrelevant. Tournaments are a whole different ballgame.
Some troubles with all-ins? He literally rolls over and dies to zerg all-ins in every tournament.
What? Since when does everyone look like a god on their stream? watch Naniwa and you'll see him roflstomp through top koreans on ladder. Even Day9 watched Naniwa's stream once and was in disbelief at the micro he showed in one of his games. Zenio's not even a bad player, only in ZvT, so I'm not sure what your point was there
NaNi's stream makes me fall in love with this game. His play really is awesome.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
I find that more and more of these terrible opinions come from 2-3k+ posters - which is when i feel like post count (and thus tenure at TL) is slowly becoming completely meaningless. You cannot say that Nerchio is Code A material from a showmatch played CROSS-SERVER. You just can't. NO foreigner has made into the "modern Code A" format on his own and won multiple series except for HuK, and even he received a free pass into GSL. He is less than Code A material. He's Code NOTHING material. He's just a really good foreigner. Don't try to extrapolate his successes from a EU environment into a Korean environment and claim that he would even do remotely well first thing upon landing. Evidence is against you and any other Nerchio fanboy. I'm by no means a hater, and best of luck to the guy and his future ventures, but people spouting mindless praise just annoys me.
How do you know what latency each player had? You don't. Poland to US is a big distance too.
I can't argue with posters like you when this is a lose-lose situation for Nerchio. If he lost 0-4 then you will be all over this thread laughing at how terrible foreigners are compared to koreans. If he takes it to a game 9 or wins, you come with all sort of excuses.
List me 5 amateur players that are as good as Nerchio is. He's fucking studying!
About the gap between foreigners and Koreans; it exists, but, as Nerchio and many other EU players proves that it's not that big as people are imagining.
As for Code A/S, we don't know how Nerchio would perform, since he isn't full pro and judging by other foreigner's performance his chances might be slim, however we haven't seen his full potential so Nerchio could as well win Code S easily.
The only way to know is if Nerchio gives up his studies and goes to Korea playing fulltime.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
I find that more and more of these terrible opinions come from 2-3k+ posters - which is when i feel like post count (and thus tenure at TL) is slowly becoming completely meaningless. You cannot say that Nerchio is Code A material from a showmatch played CROSS-SERVER. You just can't. NO foreigner has made into the "modern Code A" format on his own and won multiple series except for HuK, and even he received a free pass into GSL. He is less than Code A material. He's Code NOTHING material. He's just a really good foreigner. Don't try to extrapolate his successes from a EU environment into a Korean environment and claim that he would even do remotely well first thing upon landing. Evidence is against you and any other Nerchio fanboy. I'm by no means a hater, and best of luck to the guy and his future ventures, but people spouting mindless praise just annoys me.
Not to mention Nerchio just got rocked a second ago by Beastyqt in SCAN. That's how baseless most opinions are. <3<3
In online event, ur post is baseless
Right but no code A player would have lost in it. Nerchio is def good, for EU server, but saying he's code A is just plain silly now. The competition is so much fiercer in Korea its astounding, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if jjakji didnt prepare at all for this, compared to something like GSL. Props to nerchio for keeping it as close as he did, but saying he's ready to roll with the big boys just because he didn't get completely curbstomped by jjakji's a little premature....
On January 30 2012 04:34 5ukkub wrote: WTF people?!?
List me 5 amateur players that are as good as Nerchio is. He's fucking studying!
About the gap between foreigners and Koreans; it exists, but, as Nerchio and many other EU players proves that it's not that big as people are imagining.
As for Code A/S, we don't know how Nerchio would perform, since he isn't full pro and judging by other foreigner's performance his chances might be slim, however we haven't seen his full potential so Nerchio could as well win Code S easily.
The only way to know is if Nerchio gives up his studies and goes to Korea playing fulltime.
Well foreigners have always done well vs korean's in online events. Then it comes to offline events and whether to nerves no latency or whatever most of the time they get smashed by the korean. Its hard to judge how good a player is in an online event. But people will always be ready to hop the bandwagon of the "there is no skill gap" then when that same player plays a "worse" korean in a live event and loses badly I mean yeah...
I did enjoy this series was fun to watch. Watching nerchio go muta's though made me cry because he had bad control over them but its possible it was just a bad game or he just doesn't go mutalisks enough and it showed. I disliked his heavy roach play but it seemed to work out for him for the most part but he seemed to lose whenever he went ultra's and won when he went broodlords :D.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Whoa whoa whoa.
Nerchio is better than all those (highly) overrated players.
nerchio better than Naniwa? LOL
Naniwa is the most overrated foreigner in recent times. His PvZ is horrible stuff. Nerchio is far stronger all around.
naniwa has horrible pvz? really? ever watched his stream? only because he has some troubles with allins and stuff like doesnt mean he has bad pvz.
Everyone looks like a god on their stream, so your point is irrelevant. Tournaments are a whole different ballgame.
Some troubles with all-ins? He literally rolls over and dies to zerg all-ins in every tournament.
What? Since when does everyone look like a god on their stream? watch Naniwa and you'll see him roflstomp through top koreans on ladder. Even Day9 watched Naniwa's stream once and was in disbelief at the micro he showed in one of his games. Zenio's not even a bad player, only in ZvT, so I'm not sure what your point was there
Exactly. He can roflstomp through top koreans on ladder, but his actual performance in Korean tournaments is severely lacking. He can look so good on ladder because there is no pressure and none of the strategy usually involved in a BoX. And Naniwa is extremely good when he's not crippled by his own prejudices. His play has significant weaknesses though.
Alive and Parting are ladder gods as well, but it took Parting months to actually qualify for Code A and get into Code S. Squirtle is a ladder god and a team league god but crumbles in the Up-and-Downs due to nerves. Same applies to Taeja.
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
Why so much arguing in this thread? The series was good. Nerchio is a good player, we all know that, but throwing around baseless statements about how he can be in code s is exactly that; baseless. We won't know until he tries.
On January 30 2012 04:38 blade55555 wrote: I did enjoy this series was fun to watch. Watching nerchio go muta's though made me cry because he had bad control over them
lag
anyway nerchio almost never goes Muta and he hates banelings (never does bane speed) so its no secret he isnt master of the style, and you better be one when facing GSL champ...
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
ROFLLLL. This has to be trolling. Right?
I'm not trolling, just go and read the OP of this thread. It clearly says ... Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (GSL Champion).
This thread had become the home ground of those who think there is no skill gap at the top level. Just like the IPL 3 thread where Stephano won 4-0 vs a Code S player.
If you want to talk about Koreans owning the foreigners go bump the HSC4 thread. Just don't do it in this thread, because it's clearly off topic (the result in OP proves you wrong!).
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
ROFLLLL. This has to be trolling. Right?
I'm not trolling, just go and read the OP of this thread. It clearly says ... Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (GSL Champion).
This thread had become the home ground of those who think there is no skill gap at the top level. Just like the IPL 3 thread where Stephano won 4-0 vs a Code S player.
If you want to talk about Koreans owning the foreigners go bump the HSC4 thread. Just don't do it in this thread, because it's clearly off topic (the result in OP proves you wrong!).
Umm no it doesn't. The results in one online showmatch don't prove that. What proves there is a skillgap is 2 years of results.
On January 30 2012 04:38 blade55555 wrote: I did enjoy this series was fun to watch. Watching nerchio go muta's though made me cry because he had bad control over them
lag
anyway nerchio almost never goes Muta and he hates banelings (never does bane speed) so its no secret he isnt master of the style, and you better be one when facing GSL champ...
I guess it's entirely up to him, but banelings just seem to be a key part of ZvT to me.
I like reading about me and i could tell before the match was broadcasted, into what this thread is going to turn. Undeniably Jjakji is much better player than me and everybody knows that. If we played on 'lan' he would probably destroy me X-0 or X-1 and he obviously took this match not that seriously. He even said that it was lagging for him at some point but i don't think the lags are that big as some people say it is. I admit that in ZvT the lag favours Z more since T requires to do a lot of splitting. Nevertheless, the match was entertaining for me to play and i was really tired after all the maps since it was like 2,5 hours of playing and that's a really long time without any breaks which koreans are more used to i guess. I liked it and don't take this match as a thing that can decide whether i am on code S or code A level, i don't really care because there is no point in speculating like that(even if it might be fun). You can say as well that we can't tell how Jjakji would do in European tournaments because he didn't attend any I hope i can continue playing Sc2 though because i do badly lately
On January 30 2012 04:59 Nerchio wrote: I like reading about me and i could tell before the match was broadcasted, into what this thread is going to turn. Undeniably Jjakji is much better player than me and everybody knows that. If we played on 'lan' he would probably destroy me X-0 or X-1 and he obviously took this match not that seriously. He even said that it was lagging for him at some point but i don't think the lags are that big as some people say it is. I admit that in ZvT the lag favours Z more since T requires to do a lot of splitting. Nevertheless, the match was entertaining for me to play and i was really tired after all the maps since it was like 2,5 hours of playing and that's a really long time without any breaks which koreans are more used to i guess. I liked it and don't take this match as a thing that can decide whether i am on code S or code A level, i don't really care because there is no point in speculating like that(even if it might be fun). You can say as well that we can't tell how Jjakji would do in European tournaments because he didn't attend any I hope i can continue playing Sc2 though because i do badly lately
Such a level headed guy you are Nerchio. You made a fan out of me. I'll be rooting for you from now on.
On January 30 2012 04:59 Nerchio wrote: I like reading about me and i could tell before the match was broadcasted, into what this thread is going to turn. Undeniably Jjakji is much better player than me and everybody knows that. If we played on 'lan' he would probably destroy me X-0 or X-1 and he obviously took this match not that seriously. He even said that it was lagging for him at some point but i don't think the lags are that big as some people say it is. I admit that in ZvT the lag favours Z more since T requires to do a lot of splitting. Nevertheless, the match was entertaining for me to play and i was really tired after all the maps since it was like 2,5 hours of playing and that's a really long time without any breaks which koreans are more used to i guess. I liked it and don't take this match as a thing that can decide whether i am on code S or code A level, i don't really care because there is no point in speculating like that(even if it might be fun). You can say as well that we can't tell how Jjakji would do in European tournaments because he didn't attend any I hope i can continue playing Sc2 though because i do badly lately
Thumbs up as always bro. Excuses will always be made, people will always complain but at the end of the day results are all that matter.
On January 30 2012 04:59 Nerchio wrote: I like reading about me and i could tell before the match was broadcasted, into what this thread is going to turn. Undeniably Jjakji is much better player than me and everybody knows that. If we played on 'lan' he would probably destroy me X-0 or X-1 and he obviously took this match not that seriously. He even said that it was lagging for him at some point but i don't think the lags are that big as some people say it is. I admit that in ZvT the lag favours Z more since T requires to do a lot of splitting. Nevertheless, the match was entertaining for me to play and i was really tired after all the maps since it was like 2,5 hours of playing and that's a really long time without any breaks which koreans are more used to i guess. I liked it and don't take this match as a thing that can decide whether i am on code S or code A level, i don't really care because there is no point in speculating like that(even if it might be fun). You can say as well that we can't tell how Jjakji would do in European tournaments because he didn't attend any I hope i can continue playing Sc2 though because i do badly lately
We certainly hope that you continue competing in anything that we have going on. We consistently talk about you in the office with high regard and hope we can see you at IPL 4 soon. =)
On January 30 2012 04:59 Nerchio wrote: I like reading about me and i could tell before the match was broadcasted, into what this thread is going to turn. Undeniably Jjakji is much better player than me and everybody knows that. If we played on 'lan' he would probably destroy me X-0 or X-1 and he obviously took this match not that seriously. He even said that it was lagging for him at some point but i don't think the lags are that big as some people say it is. I admit that in ZvT the lag favours Z more since T requires to do a lot of splitting. Nevertheless, the match was entertaining for me to play and i was really tired after all the maps since it was like 2,5 hours of playing and that's a really long time without any breaks which koreans are more used to i guess. I liked it and don't take this match as a thing that can decide whether i am on code S or code A level, i don't really care because there is no point in speculating like that(even if it might be fun). You can say as well that we can't tell how Jjakji would do in European tournaments because he didn't attend any I hope i can continue playing Sc2 though because i do badly lately
Nerchio, you just made a fan out of me. Grats on the great series, and keep up the good work!
On January 30 2012 04:59 Nerchio wrote: I like reading about me and i could tell before the match was broadcasted, into what this thread is going to turn. Undeniably Jjakji is much better player than me and everybody knows that. If we played on 'lan' he would probably destroy me X-0 or X-1 and he obviously took this match not that seriously. He even said that it was lagging for him at some point but i don't think the lags are that big as some people say it is. I admit that in ZvT the lag favours Z more since T requires to do a lot of splitting. Nevertheless, the match was entertaining for me to play and i was really tired after all the maps since it was like 2,5 hours of playing and that's a really long time without any breaks which koreans are more used to i guess. I liked it and don't take this match as a thing that can decide whether i am on code S or code A level, i don't really care because there is no point in speculating like that(even if it might be fun). You can say as well that we can't tell how Jjakji would do in European tournaments because he didn't attend any I hope i can continue playing Sc2 though because i do badly lately
Don't let the men get you down. You won't know how the game would have ended on a lan event until you tried. Believ, so we can believe, too!
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
Actually they were playing korea to NA and EU to NA so they both had some lag.
On January 30 2012 04:59 Nerchio wrote: I like reading about me and i could tell before the match was broadcasted, into what this thread is going to turn. Undeniably Jjakji is much better player than me and everybody knows that. If we played on 'lan' he would probably destroy me X-0 or X-1 and he obviously took this match not that seriously. He even said that it was lagging for him at some point but i don't think the lags are that big as some people say it is. I admit that in ZvT the lag favours Z more since T requires to do a lot of splitting. Nevertheless, the match was entertaining for me to play and i was really tired after all the maps since it was like 2,5 hours of playing and that's a really long time without any breaks which koreans are more used to i guess. I liked it and don't take this match as a thing that can decide whether i am on code S or code A level, i don't really care because there is no point in speculating like that(even if it might be fun). You can say as well that we can't tell how Jjakji would do in European tournaments because he didn't attend any I hope i can continue playing Sc2 though because i do badly lately
you should definitely keep playing man, your results being slightly less good than they have been in the past doesn't mean you're falling off. i'm sure you can work out whatever's been keeping you from dominating as hard as you used to.
great match you played there, and also a great post you made there. you just made me a fan.
On January 30 2012 04:59 Nerchio wrote: I like reading about me and i could tell before the match was broadcasted, into what this thread is going to turn. Undeniably Jjakji is much better player than me and everybody knows that. If we played on 'lan' he would probably destroy me X-0 or X-1 and he obviously took this match not that seriously. He even said that it was lagging for him at some point but i don't think the lags are that big as some people say it is. I admit that in ZvT the lag favours Z more since T requires to do a lot of splitting. Nevertheless, the match was entertaining for me to play and i was really tired after all the maps since it was like 2,5 hours of playing and that's a really long time without any breaks which koreans are more used to i guess. I liked it and don't take this match as a thing that can decide whether i am on code S or code A level, i don't really care because there is no point in speculating like that(even if it might be fun). You can say as well that we can't tell how Jjakji would do in European tournaments because he didn't attend any I hope i can continue playing Sc2 though because i do badly lately
With that said, it's kind of sad that some people actually think there's little to no skill gap between top-level Koreans and Europeans. The typical pattern seems to be: Foreigner does well against top Korean in cross-server play -> Foreigner fanboys overrate player ("Oh, he could easily hang with the top Koreans!") -> Foreigner ends up getting stomped at a LAN event like MLG/GSL/IEM -> Fanboys are let down (and rightly so).
Seriously, I have no problem with people acknowledging that various foreign players are really damn good, but when you try to claim that they can hang with Korea's top talent on the mere basis of laggy cross-server play while LAN event results and the superior practice infrastructure Koreans have completely say otherwise, you look rather stupid.
On January 30 2012 04:59 Nerchio wrote: I like reading about me and i could tell before the match was broadcasted, into what this thread is going to turn. Undeniably Jjakji is much better player than me and everybody knows that. If we played on 'lan' he would probably destroy me X-0 or X-1 and he obviously took this match not that seriously. He even said that it was lagging for him at some point but i don't think the lags are that big as some people say it is. I admit that in ZvT the lag favours Z more since T requires to do a lot of splitting. Nevertheless, the match was entertaining for me to play and i was really tired after all the maps since it was like 2,5 hours of playing and that's a really long time without any breaks which koreans are more used to i guess. I liked it and don't take this match as a thing that can decide whether i am on code S or code A level, i don't really care because there is no point in speculating like that(even if it might be fun). You can say as well that we can't tell how Jjakji would do in European tournaments because he didn't attend any I hope i can continue playing Sc2 though because i do badly lately
On January 30 2012 04:59 Nerchio wrote: I like reading about me and i could tell before the match was broadcasted, into what this thread is going to turn. Undeniably Jjakji is much better player than me and everybody knows that. If we played on 'lan' he would probably destroy me X-0 or X-1 and he obviously took this match not that seriously. He even said that it was lagging for him at some point but i don't think the lags are that big as some people say it is. I admit that in ZvT the lag favours Z more since T requires to do a lot of splitting. Nevertheless, the match was entertaining for me to play and i was really tired after all the maps since it was like 2,5 hours of playing and that's a really long time without any breaks which koreans are more used to i guess. I liked it and don't take this match as a thing that can decide whether i am on code S or code A level, i don't really care because there is no point in speculating like that(even if it might be fun). You can say as well that we can't tell how Jjakji would do in European tournaments because he didn't attend any I hope i can continue playing Sc2 though because i do badly lately
Wow, you just made a fan for that post:D, you're really good aswell btw^^, better luck next time though:D
On January 29 2012 16:51 HQuality wrote: well this two are very equally matched
Jjakji is a GSL Code S championship. How does playing on a laggy KR - EU connection and still winning say they are equally matched. Nerchio isn't even Code A material man, same as every other foreigner.
wut? he's easily Code A
No he's not. He's worse than Thorzain, Sase and Naniwa who were all stomped in Code A in some cases multiple times.
You're Code A material when you actually go to Korea and win multiple series in Code A or better yet actually qualify (something no foreigner has ever done).
Just curious, do you get paid to defend the koreans so much in every thread?
Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (Code S champion). This match proves that there is no skill gap at the top level. End of story.
If you want to prove that koreans dominate the foreigners go post it in threads where that happened, because this showmatch doesn't help your cause mate.
ROFLLLL. This has to be trolling. Right?
I'm not trolling, just go and read the OP of this thread. It clearly says ... Nerchio 4-5 Jjakji (GSL Champion).
This thread had become the home ground of those who think there is no skill gap at the top level. Just like the IPL 3 thread where Stephano won 4-0 vs a Code S player.
If you want to talk about Koreans owning the foreigners go bump the HSC4 thread. Just don't do it in this thread, because it's clearly off topic (the result in OP proves you wrong!).
On January 30 2012 04:59 Nerchio wrote: I like reading about me and i could tell before the match was broadcasted, into what this thread is going to turn. Undeniably Jjakji is much better player than me and everybody knows that. If we played on 'lan' he would probably destroy me X-0 or X-1 and he obviously took this match not that seriously. He even said that it was lagging for him at some point but i don't think the lags are that big as some people say it is. I admit that in ZvT the lag favours Z more since T requires to do a lot of splitting. Nevertheless, the match was entertaining for me to play and i was really tired after all the maps since it was like 2,5 hours of playing and that's a really long time without any breaks which koreans are more used to i guess. I liked it and don't take this match as a thing that can decide whether i am on code S or code A level, i don't really care because there is no point in speculating like that(even if it might be fun). You can say as well that we can't tell how Jjakji would do in European tournaments because he didn't attend any I hope i can continue playing Sc2 though because i do badly lately
Love you dude. It's always a pleasure to see your games!
On January 30 2012 04:59 Nerchio wrote: I like reading about me and i could tell before the match was broadcasted, into what this thread is going to turn. Undeniably Jjakji is much better player than me and everybody knows that. If we played on 'lan' he would probably destroy me X-0 or X-1 and he obviously took this match not that seriously. He even said that it was lagging for him at some point but i don't think the lags are that big as some people say it is. I admit that in ZvT the lag favours Z more since T requires to do a lot of splitting. Nevertheless, the match was entertaining for me to play and i was really tired after all the maps since it was like 2,5 hours of playing and that's a really long time without any breaks which koreans are more used to i guess. I liked it and don't take this match as a thing that can decide whether i am on code S or code A level, i don't really care because there is no point in speculating like that(even if it might be fun). You can say as well that we can't tell how Jjakji would do in European tournaments because he didn't attend any I hope i can continue playing Sc2 though because i do badly lately
Hi Nerchio, Well said!!
Question?
Would you consider Trying for Code A? I know it's easy to say from the observer point of view and there are many factors to it.
but personally I think you, most definitely, should.
Keep it up man.!! I am 100% a fan after this series!
EPT
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/YwMM8.png)
IPL Fight Club
Acer.Nerchio managed to dismantle the reigning champion, 
mouz.MaNa with a brilliant display of Zerg aggression. This week, he will face undoubtedly the toughest opponent yet, 
NSHS.Jjakji! This GSL Code S winner looks to prove that he is not just a flash in the pan in IPL Fight Club. Tune in to see if one of the very best foreign Zerg players can hang with GSL royalty!![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/im1nI.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0araR.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AiAgN.png)
Facebook, ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xBVkG.png)
Twitter, ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/x6Xnq.png)
YouTube, and Twitch.TV!
. I don't see Jjakji having a tough time with Nerchio, or many other players for that matter
![[image loading]](http://sc2gg.com/hosted/fakekisser/player_pics/effort_mismicro_073109.png)
I would assume it only works vs. pure mech though.
