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On January 30 2012 18:40 mrGRAPE wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 18:35 Agathon wrote:On January 30 2012 18:34 mrGRAPE wrote:On January 30 2012 18:30 HappyChris wrote:On January 30 2012 18:28 mrGRAPE wrote:
Well, Stephano could have avoided this whole debacle by PLANNING which tournaments he'll be in properly. Sounds to me like he got a little greedy and tried to go for two back to back tournaments in a row. Just like every other player there is. This is normal. Polt the other day did the exact same thing and had to forfeit a final to play in another final.. So what's the deal here? Polt does it so it's OK if Stephano does it as well? No. The deal is : If you blame Stephano, blame Polt too. Or don't blame anyone. I don't see why some of the blame shouldn't be on both of these players. They planned the tournaments they wanted to be in, they knew the schedules of the matches that were going to be played. If there was a clash in schedule, they'll be aware. Over runs do happen but like I said, they got greedy and they couldn't handle it.
Well thats our hole point MrGrape. it isnt. This happend alot but somehow this little incidents got alot of attention..
Polt did forfeit a final so he could make more money
Tyler did it earlier in group stages
Idra has done it many times on huge stages remember IPL 3?
And many many other players has done the same..But somehow Stephano is made the bad guy of esport.
Hillarious
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On January 30 2012 18:40 mrGRAPE wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 18:35 Agathon wrote:On January 30 2012 18:34 mrGRAPE wrote:On January 30 2012 18:30 HappyChris wrote:On January 30 2012 18:28 mrGRAPE wrote:
Well, Stephano could have avoided this whole debacle by PLANNING which tournaments he'll be in properly. Sounds to me like he got a little greedy and tried to go for two back to back tournaments in a row. Just like every other player there is. This is normal. Polt the other day did the exact same thing and had to forfeit a final to play in another final.. So what's the deal here? Polt does it so it's OK if Stephano does it as well? No. The deal is : If you blame Stephano, blame Polt too. Or don't blame anyone. I don't see why some of the blame shouldn't be on both of these players. They planned the tournaments they wanted to be in, they knew the schedules of the matches that were going to be played. If there was a clash in schedule, they'll be aware. Over runs do happen but like I said, they got greedy and they couldn't handle it.
Maybe he planned to play in two tournaments because he didn't thought he was going to win both of them. It's not his fault he's so good (and oter players so bad) he ends up at the finals of every european tournament he enters.
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This was honestly a very poorly run tournament. Lots of delays, lots of very bad casting. On top of that the finals, with kas and stephano (not a surprise), is played 3-4 am eu time? yeah gg
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On January 30 2012 18:44 Agathon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 18:40 mrGRAPE wrote:On January 30 2012 18:35 Agathon wrote:On January 30 2012 18:34 mrGRAPE wrote:On January 30 2012 18:30 HappyChris wrote:On January 30 2012 18:28 mrGRAPE wrote:
Well, Stephano could have avoided this whole debacle by PLANNING which tournaments he'll be in properly. Sounds to me like he got a little greedy and tried to go for two back to back tournaments in a row. Just like every other player there is. This is normal. Polt the other day did the exact same thing and had to forfeit a final to play in another final.. So what's the deal here? Polt does it so it's OK if Stephano does it as well? No. The deal is : If you blame Stephano, blame Polt too. Or don't blame anyone. I don't see why some of the blame shouldn't be on both of these players. They planned the tournaments they wanted to be in, they knew the schedules of the matches that were going to be played. If there was a clash in schedule, they'll be aware. Over runs do happen but like I said, they got greedy and they couldn't handle it. Me neither ! The fact is : Nobody blames Polt, but Stephano is an ass according to some people.
Agathon same old story im sure its the same hater Stephano got 6-7 months ago when we told them Stephano is an amasing player.
They cant attack his skill lvl anymore since he wins everything and dominates everyone so now they trying with character assasination instead.
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On January 30 2012 18:48 legaton wrote:
Maybe he planned to play in two tournaments because he didn't thought he was going to win both of them. It's not his fault he's so good (and oter players so bad) he ends up at the finals of every european tournament he enters.
I'm not sure how that's an excuse. If he's good enough to be in the finals 'every european tournament he enters', he should be well aware that the schedules for ONOG and SCAN will clash or that he will insufficient rest in between.
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very poor and disappointing behavior by Stephano. Lost almost all my respect.
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Ok this is my perspective (as objective as possible):
a) What Stephano did right
- Every player should have the right to forfeit without a reason
- He asked for a reschedule
- He knew the consequences and accepted a walkover in the finals.
- He was honest about beeing tired. He could have made up an excuse that would probably give him more appreciation.
b) What Stephano did wrong
- The tournament was delayed because of him playing in another tournament
- He seems to have forgotten that it was an event for Barcrafts, so people wanted to watch him right on that evening.
- Logging off before the situation was completly clarified comes across kind of bad attitude
- Playing too much tournaments on one day. Sure both tournaments were invitationals, so he didn't really sign up for them, but he could have figured that they might collide schedule-wise.
- He should have known, that this might blow up to a big deal in regards of him getting accused of disrespecting the tournament and his fans.
c) What ONOG-Organizers did right
- They were very insightful about the delay situation before the Semi-Finals due to Stephano playing another tournament
- They had the best intentions to create a great community event
d) What ONOG-Organizers did wrong
- You can't never ever change the rules afterwards! Putting Stephano in 4th place randomly was a terrible move, if it was not made clear in the rules beforehand. If he forfeits, he goes 0-4 in 2nd place. You can ban him from future events, yes, but you cannot switch the result around because you are angry at him.
- Think about European timezones. For both Kas and Stephano it was already very late (2am). It makes absolutely no sense at all, to play a best-of-5 match for 3rd place before it then. No offense to Illusion and CatZ, but this match could have been played parallel and later casted via replays or sth. All that people wanted to see was Kas vs Stephano.
e) Conclusion
I feel, both parties did not react properly. IMHO, just let Stephano forfeit, give a 4-0 victory to Kas, apologize to the fans and maybe ban Stephano from (one or more) future events and thats it. Also i really feel with the progress of eSport getting more and more professional we are getting to a point where we need some global standards on how to deal with forfeits. Look at sports like Tennis for example. If a player feels sick, he forfeits and gets a walkover. Sure its bad for the organizers there, and bad for the fans. But its not that big of deal there.
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I think the behaviour of tournament organizers is even more sad, poor and pathetic than Stephano's behaviour to forfeit the finals. He already won SCAN Invitational3, playing at 3-4am probably hurts either no? and taking his money he deserved is really poor, just to make a show and run more advertisements... Sad.
Gj KaS anyway
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who cares ?
Stephano wanted to forfeit, he did. He was ranked 4. Why do you argue now ? He does what he wants and is being treated for the results of his acts.
If he is ok with that, then all of you shouldn't argue.
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That commentator was disgusting, thats true
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On January 30 2012 18:37 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 18:31 FoUsTy wrote:
"How they get treated" AHAH. You know in the word, there is LOT people working (not playing) WORKING 12 hours for something like 10$ ?
Open your eyes man........................................................ Ahh so you pissed you had to work 12 hours for 10$ an hour? And you just have to lat out you frustation on stephano becuase he makes alot of money playing sc 2? jealousy is a bitch man
I'm Doctor student...so you're totaly wrong...
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im interested if it was a MLG final and the same thing(=forfeit because of sleep / no written rules concerning the problem) happened,would there still be as many people defending stephano?
now the same thing again in a MLG final but its naniwa instead of stephano ?
i personally dont know what to think of it ,but he better was really,really tired since the final of a tournament generally is the most memorable and most viewed game and therefore the most interesting for the sponsors and organizers..
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On January 30 2012 19:05 FoUsTy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 18:37 HappyChris wrote:On January 30 2012 18:31 FoUsTy wrote:
"How they get treated" AHAH. You know in the word, there is LOT people working (not playing) WORKING 12 hours for something like 10$ ?
Open your eyes man........................................................ Ahh so you pissed you had to work 12 hours for 10$ an hour? And you just have to lat out you frustation on stephano becuase he makes alot of money playing sc 2? jealousy is a bitch man I'm Doctor student...so you're totaly wrong...
Doctor student that actually has a problem writing English without the use of any fancy words. Kinda disappointing.
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On January 30 2012 18:16 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 18:03 riffraffselbow wrote:
Hello. This is my first TL post. I'm an occasional SC2 player, who watches a decent number of streams. I don't really have any favorites, save Day9, but he's a caster. Just giving some background on my perspective.
I feel:
-The decision to say that Stephano placed fourth is immature and shows a lack of judgement; I was excited about ONOG reading about their Barcraft events, but I don't think I'd want to go to one now.
-Stephano's actions are less than angelic, but not unreasonable.
-It's a shitty situation no matter what, for basically everyone involved.
-The "Right to forfeit" should be absolute, and shouldn't require a reason.
-That said, viewers can and most certainly should ostracize players who forfeit more than they think they should
-And organizers shouldn't invite players who they think are liable to forfeit "too much"
For those of you who argue that he should have played them out: What if he had Naniwa worker rushed them? Would you argue he should lose 2nd place? How about if he played, but didn't play well? Would you say we need a judging panel to tell whether the player is "really trying"?
And for those of you claiming he needs to man up, fuck you. There can be any number of reasons why he'd be tired. To say that he's not allowed to sleep because you need your e-giggles is beyond low. Best first post ever And welcome btw I hope you will stay long even with all the emo rage going on TL. I swear to god if it wasnt Stephano then im sure it would be something els. Polt forfeited a final the other day becuase he was also in a final in another cup and there was more money to be made. Not a single word was sayd about that. But Stephano wow different matter.
I refer to this post only because I saw it and it just reminded of the several other posts in the thread that continue to refer to Naniwa's probe pull. Naniwa did attempt to forfeit If I recall correctly and they told him to fuck himself. He then probe pulled.
He didn't just probe pull, there's a difference. He attempted to do it the correct way, but they screwed him.
In this instance, the tournament organizers were wrong in removing his prize pool and reducing his current rank to 4th despite qualifying for at least second. It actually makes more sense to DQ him, although I disagree with any real monetary or status punishment at all in this scenario.
However, at the same token, Stephano didn't kill anyone...People are pulling out pitchforks because he doesn't give a shit. He doesn't have to give a shit, not everyone shares this unified value of the "greater e-sports" that you do.
It would be wise if people realized that their qualms with competitors should not have a direct affect on that players earnings. If you don't like what he did, don't support him. It's that simple, you shouldn't call for a lynching. This isn't a witch hunt.
People are getting so ludicrously carried away with the scenario.
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On January 30 2012 18:59 DirtyCash wrote:
The biggotry displayed by one of the commentators, insulting a whole country because Stephano forfeited his match is even less professional. Not looking forward anything branded ONOG in the future
Pretty curious to what he said. Enlighten me please. 
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Oh well, next time -- let's put a gun to Stephanos head; "DANCE MONKEY, DANCE FOR OUR PLEASURE!"
They should have planned to start with Kas vs. CatZ as soon as they knew Stephano reached the SCAN final.
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On January 30 2012 18:57 arew wrote:
I think the behaviour of tournament organizers is even more sad, poor and pathetic than Stephano's behaviour to forfeit the finals. He already won SCAN Invitational3, playing at 3-4am probably hurts either no? and taking his money he deserved is really poor, just to make a show and run more advertisements... Sad.
Gj KaS anyway
You can't make excuses for him...
The ONOG tournament was a barcraft funded, and supported event that was being viewed at barcrafts. There were no other times to play. There is no opportunity for rescheduling. Stephano would know this...>_>
His actions were selfish, sure. But it was a situation that couldn't be avoided since he lives in a different timezones. The ONOG people shouldn't be penalized because he decided to partake in a tournament that had a realistic chance of continuing into the wee hours of the night.
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On January 30 2012 19:14 Unreliablex wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 19:05 FoUsTy wrote:On January 30 2012 18:37 HappyChris wrote:On January 30 2012 18:31 FoUsTy wrote:
"How they get treated" AHAH. You know in the word, there is LOT people working (not playing) WORKING 12 hours for something like 10$ ?
Open your eyes man........................................................ Ahh so you pissed you had to work 12 hours for 10$ an hour? And you just have to lat out you frustation on stephano becuase he makes alot of money playing sc 2? jealousy is a bitch man I'm Doctor student...so you're totaly wrong... Doctor student that actually has a problem writing English without the use of any fancy words. Kinda disappointing.
Out of topic, but how are medicine and writing a foreign language even remotely related ?
On January 30 2012 18:59 DirtyCash wrote:
The biggotry displayed by one of the commentators, insulting a whole country because Stephano forfeited his match is even less professional. Not looking forward anything branded ONOG in the future
What did the commentator say ?! :O
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On January 30 2012 18:48 Fjodorov wrote:
This was honestly a very poorly run tournament. Lots of delays, lots of very bad casting.
And lots of bad decisions, and terrible casters. I mean, I usually like Mr.Bitter, he was great at HSC and he's great in IEM events, but he was bad here.
And the decision to make Stephano 4th is kind of ridiculous. They should have made him 3rd. I understand why they didn't place him 2nd, cause the final match between kas and illusion would have been kind of pointless. But there is no reason why Catz who lost his semifinal match is better ranked than someone who won their semifinal match.
And why are you angry at Stephano ? He was really tired and wouldn't play a final at 4 AM, that's all. And just because he's a "pro gamer" shouldn't mean he absolutely have to play games if he's really tired.
Seriously, in the last US Open 2011 (Tennis Grand Slam), there has never been so many players forfeiting their matchs in a grand slam (about 25 forfeited games, before or during the match), and these players do are professionals.
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EPT
