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Petit_Filou
Australia6 Posts
It's like players doing the Go4SC2 & Zotac cups on Sunday, and after 3 or 4 rounds, they have to forfeit one of them. And please don't tell me "Don't register in both tournaments if you are not sure you can play them", it's the most easiest way for doing nothing. You don't put all your eggs in one basket, don't you? Stop making drama about forfeit. It's not the first, it's not the last, deal with it. | ||
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RedBack
Australia102 Posts
Meanwhile Naniwa cops shit from everyone for probe rushing in one meaningless match... | ||
Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
On January 30 2012 15:59 Pokebunny wrote: 3. It's ridiculously irresponsible of Stephano to log off knowing they have none of your contact info, after giving a ridiculous ultimatum they can't afford to meet. ONOG had outlined the schedule of the tournament beforehand, and Stephano completely disrespected this after ACCEPTING HIS INVITATION and playing through the entire day without any complaint or warning to ONOG. Perhaps he could've said earlier "I don't think I can play the finals at this time" but he simply waited til then, said he was tired, and gave ONOG no opportunity to provide a real solution. "I was tired" is a ridiculous excuse for the finals of a tournament, and cheesing or even drone rushing the finals is by far more respectable than what Stephano did. No one can force a player to try his best one hundred percent, but by accepting an invitation or signing up for a tournament, you're agreeing to play it through. It's ridiculous that we should have to contract players to every tournament, and as a player I completely support and respect ONOG's decision. I don't think so. Lots of people argued that it would've been better for NaNiwa to ask the tournament officials to not play out (forfeit) his match instead of probe-rushing like he did. I'm sure forfeiting is the less disrespectful action than drone rushing 4 games in a row. | ||
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
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Dandy_Moustachu
France422 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On January 30 2012 17:28 Corsica wrote: I hope next time this tournament will think about players in Europe, and wont make them play at 3-5 am...learn from IEM, get normal times for everyone, dont say fu to players/viewers from Europe.... It's an online tournament with players from US, EU and Korea. The event can not be too early for NA viewers as it's a barcraft tournament. The players knew in advance when tournament would start and there were no delays resulting from tournament organizers. IEM is a live event and hardly airs at an ideal time for viewers of every single time zone, as that's not actually possible. I hope next time you post you will think what you are saying a bit more. | ||
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ShotgunMike
Sweden241 Posts
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Latty
Germany567 Posts
On January 30 2012 15:54 IMoperator wrote: How come Kas can play in the same tournies and still stay up? Because Kas is an professional grown up Starcraft 2 player  | ||
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Latty
Germany567 Posts
On January 30 2012 15:29 shaberu wrote: Most people aren't arguing that Stephano behaved professionally, but, rather, that ONOG was also unprofessional in the way they handled the situation. Forfeiting a match that people were waiting to see played may have consequences for Stephano in the future, certainly, but he obviously wasn't going to throw the games quickly after the recent drama over Naniwa. ONOG, however, behaved in an equally unprofessional manner by revoking the earned prize money of a player without notifying the player (as they admittedly report that Stephano was offline and they had no means of contacting him, which, in itself, is highly unprofessional). This is a case of both parties behaving in a disrespectful and unprofessional manner, not a battle between who you like/hate more. Stephano deserves his money and to be viewed with the approbation he deserves. ONOG should have thought about the possibilities and prepared in advance. If they think it's fair and professional to back on out advertised prize pools, they should probably get their players to sign a contract. The problem is that, as an organization, ONOG saddles the other side of the equation we've seen previously in posts regarding tournament winnings and shady organizations. Sure, players (without rehashing the numerous cases we've seen recently) have their own issues, but when tournaments arbitrarily screw players over citing entertainment value, it sets a bad precedent. They clearly stated that the reason Stephano was not given his earned prize was due to his performance not being worthy of a $1,500 final set of games. What performance is worthy, then? If he cheesed out the matches, would that be worthy? If he threw the games entirely, would that be worthy? If the games were just boring, would that be worthy? Was Stephano's performance over the course of the tournament only worth 4th place? Should we start giving out prize money based on how entertaining games were? While the ShoutCraft tip jar is perhaps a great idea, changing advertised prize amounts based on perceived entertainment value is not. Not only that, but was any money made off advertising during the Stephano games? How many viewers can be attributed to having watched specifically for Stephano? There are a lot of less-tangible factors that would come into play. ONOG didn't think. They made an idiotic split-second decision, and they should pay Stephano his winnings (and, well, I guess pay Illusion the same). Stephano should make yet another PR apology to fans, because everyone knows it won't be sincere and that he probably doesn't care. I know I'd certainly never support an ONOG event again. They've basically fallen into the trap that plagues esports at the moment: 1 - No back-up plan. Obviously, by now, this is necessity. It is your responsibility to entertain viewers. 2 - Arbitrary revoking/modifying prize pools with no notice to players. This is just disgusting, whether or not Stephano "deserved it" for his behaviour or not. It's not up to you to decide whether matches (or non-matches) were "worth" money unless players have agreed to this beforehand. It is your responsible to payout as advertised. If Stephano deserves to be banned from tournaments for his unprofessional behaviour, ONOG deserves to be boycotted by players for theirs. You can't have it both ways; professionalism should be displayed from both sides, or we're never going to get anywhere. sorry, but this is a huge pile of hate and absolute bullshit.. | ||
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KIKIZerg
26 Posts
Its so funny ppl always compare to themself... ppl are diffrent | ||
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loginn
France815 Posts
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Tsubbi
Germany7996 Posts
"stephano the french pride - french doing what the french do best and surrender, keeping the record in surrendering" classy also, why not schedule an INVITE tourney with half european half american players at a better time on a sunday thats bearable for both, this wasn't a random 100$ weekly cup where people from other regions are expected to play at bad times if they chose to participate have players form an invite tourney play the finals at 4 to 6 am is ridiculous, stephano's behaviour wasn't right either, but i hope players and organizers can take away something from this incident what is legally unacceptable though is denying stephano price money for 2nd place | ||
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KIKIZerg
26 Posts
On January 30 2012 16:50 RedBack wrote: So its fine to just forfeit the finals, the pinnacle of the tornement essentially wrecking it for the people who worked hard to put it on, the sponsors and the viewers because hes a little tired? Meanwhile Naniwa cops shit from everyone for probe rushing in one meaningless match... why its not? u cant forfait anymore? another player had the chance to win the pricemoney | ||
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robih
Austria1086 Posts
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riffraffselbow
United States6 Posts
I feel: -The decision to say that Stephano placed fourth is immature and shows a lack of judgement; I was excited about ONOG reading about their Barcraft events, but I don't think I'd want to go to one now. -Stephano's actions are less than angelic, but not unreasonable. -It's a shitty situation no matter what, for basically everyone involved. -The "Right to forfeit" should be absolute, and shouldn't require a reason. -That said, viewers can and most certainly should ostracize players who forfeit more than they think they should -And organizers shouldn't invite players who they think are liable to forfeit "too much" For those of you who argue that he should have played them out: What if he had Naniwa worker rushed them? Would you argue he should lose 2nd place? How about if he played, but didn't play well? Would you say we need a judging panel to tell whether the player is "really trying"? And for those of you claiming he needs to man up, fuck you. There can be any number of reasons why he'd be tired. To say that he's not allowed to sleep because you need your e-giggles is beyond low. | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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sodapop
Sweden189 Posts
But in my opinion there has to be something wrong when a player chooses to forfeit in the finals of a tournament. I can only assume that players are payed to much (or at least that teams don't put enough pressure on their players to actually play) and that prize money is too low. | ||
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loginn
France815 Posts
On January 30 2012 18:03 riffraffselbow wrote: Hello. This is my first TL post. I'm an occasional SC2 player, who watches a decent number of streams. I don't really have any favorites, save Day9, but he's a caster. Just giving some background on my perspective. I feel: -The decision to say that Stephano placed fourth is immature and shows a lack of judgement; I was excited about ONOG reading about their Barcraft events, but I don't think I'd want to go to one now. -Stephano's actions are less than angelic, but not unreasonable. -It's a shitty situation no matter what, for basically everyone involved. -The "Right to forfeit" should be absolute, and shouldn't require a reason. -That said, viewers can and most certainly should ostracize players who forfeit more than they think they should -And organizers shouldn't invite players who they think are liable to forfeit "too much" For those of you who argue that he should have played them out: What if he had Naniwa worker rushed them? Would you argue he should lose 2nd place? How about if he played, but didn't play well? Would you say we need a judging panel to tell whether the player is "really trying"? And for those of you claiming he needs to man up, fuck you. There can be any number of reasons why he'd be tired. To say that he's not allowed to sleep because you need your e-giggles is beyond low. This ten times. THE RIGHT TO FORFEIT SHOULD BE ABSOLUTE AND SHOULDN'T REQUIRE A REASON ! | ||
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Frankon
3054 Posts
On January 30 2012 18:03 KimJongChill wrote: Yeah, I agree with the decision to move stephano down, especially for the reasons he gave. I hope that it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that the american player got moved up  [/sarcasm off] To be honest i haven't watched the vod of the last day of ONOG (maybe ill catch a glimpse of during some less tense time at work). But wouldn't it better if the admins ask Kas and Illusion to play a showmatch as a final even for like additional 50 or 100$. | ||
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Jarree
Finland1004 Posts
On January 30 2012 18:09 loginn wrote: THE RIGHT TO FORFEIT SHOULD BE ABSOLUTE AND SHOULDN'T REQUIRE A REASON ! Why? Because you said so and you are the ultimate judge of the universe? A tournament should be able to make it's own rules and enforce them. I think in future tournaments will have more specific rules that cover forfeiting matches. | ||
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