On January 30 2012 12:16 habbey wrote: i know its a bit late with this but... i lost a lot of respect for stephano today... its a sad day
This whole situation is rather funny, personally I don't feel Stephano did anything wrong considering how late the tournament is being played for the europeans. On offline tournaments it's not an issue to play on US times, but for online tournies it's a different beast since that means finals etc are being played in the middle of the night for europeans. Sure, for Kas it's even later and he's still there and I'm personally awake even though it's past 4am, but I still understand his decision. I think it's sad it came to this, but I understand both onog and Stephano. Tumba lost every ounce of what little respect I had for him however and I'll boycot casts by him in the future for sure.
i'd agree with you if the tournament was scheduled for a surprise random time. it wasn't. this is just super unprofessional, and i expect professionalism in the things i choose to sink my time into (especially because i have so little free time these days).
Obviously both sides are lacking in professionalism. Sure, Stephano could have played; he certainly couldn't have cheesed out of the series, because he'd then face the same reprisal Naniwa faced. Either that, or he could forfeit. It's really not his fault that the tournament hosts hadn't provided in advance for this sort of situation. Either way, he forfeits, he takes the community damage and damage to his reputation in terms of future events inviting him. Even if Stephano doesn't care about the fans, he still placed 2nd in the tournament.
Unfortunately, ONOG showed a serious lack in judgment (on top of a lack of professionalism). Stephano legitimately placed 2nd in their tournament, yet they refused to payout to Stephano? Unless they have a signed contract claiming that Stephano will play all games out in full, what are they even thinking? Even for a snap judgment, it makes absolutely no sense. You could ask the other players if they wanted to play out some matches for the viewers, etc., but how could you be as completely unprofessional as to take a player's rightfully earned winnings, especially after the player had logged off and you had (which is your fault for lack of foresight, as if Stephano wouldn't have given you his phone number had you asked) no way of contacting him?
Disappointing on both sides, but for people running the tournaments, this is absolutely shady and works into the same sort of absurdity as not paying out to winners. Absolutely disgusting. It wouldn't even logically make sense to spite him by forcing him into 4th place; if your logic is that the winner of 3rd/4th plays for 2nd, then shouldn't Stephano logically get at least 3rd place, considering he beat at least one of the 3rd/4th place players? If he forfeited and you had some sort of terms to offer him no money for whatever reason, fine. But what sort of sense does your decision make?
I don't understand how you couldn't possibly have had some sort of alternative -- even the largest tournaments have had severe outages. What if Stephano or Kas' internet had gone out for the remainder of the night? No alternatives planned? No contact information for the players to speak to them through a more reliable medium? Unprofessional. Before you start complaining about the professionalism of the players, we also need to uphold the same standards on the "organizations" involved as well.
Also, this also brings into question the professionalism of casters. Some of them are terrible and should be upheld to the same standard we expect of others in the community, eg: Tumba.
On January 30 2012 12:16 habbey wrote: i know its a bit late with this but... i lost a lot of respect for stephano today... its a sad day
This whole situation is rather funny, personally I don't feel Stephano did anything wrong considering how late the tournament is being played for the europeans. On offline tournaments it's not an issue to play on US times, but for online tournies it's a different beast since that means finals etc are being played in the middle of the night for europeans. Sure, for Kas it's even later and he's still there and I'm personally awake even though it's past 4am, but I still understand his decision. I think it's sad it came to this, but I understand both onog and Stephano. Tumba lost every ounce of what little respect I had for him however and I'll boycot casts by him in the future for sure.
i'd agree with you if the tournament was scheduled for a surprise random time. it wasn't. this is just super unprofessional, and i expect professionalism in the things i choose to sink my time into (especially because i have so little free time these days).
On January 30 2012 12:24 HappyChris wrote: The funny thing is LiquidTyler also forfeits but he didnt say any reason whatsoever but nop the TL posters got np at all with it. However when Stephano does it hole TL goes abeshit..
I seen this for so long time now it got nothing todo with what stephano did. It got everything todo that he beats players so horrible that there fans gets angry and he make so much money and people just cant accept it.
jealousy thats the word..
you see no difference between forfeiting in the finals after playing the tourney vs forfeiting before the tourney starts?
He lost his first game, then gave WO in the next two
i didn't know that, and at no point have i defended him. Still though, stephano is worse. he should realize forfeiting a finals is just a big middle finger to all fans and the hosts of the tournament.
Hehe, How is it worse? Atleast stephano sayd he coulnt play anymore becuase it was so late? Tyler lost 0-2 and then just gives up his other matches??
Come on speak the truth you dont like Stephano becuase of one these reason:
"He beats you favorite player"
"He makes to much money"
"He only practise 3 hours a day he is lying"
"he will only play this year and then retire unfair towards the other players"
"He doesnt say gg but say gratz its gay"
pick one I heard all these before.
Raging over Stephano but defending Tyler is laughable at best and it tells me that the incident got nothing todo with the hate Stephano gets.
Alot of people just dont like him and since he dont lose much the hate has to go elswhere
There is a difference between Tyler and Stephano though, they did the same thing but Stephano's was harsher and more of a spotlight. Plus nobody knows how Tyler is going to do because of his stages of depression, it's no surprise to most people who know that Tyler has depression would quit when he lost. There is no benefit of playing while depressed.
But that's not an excuse, he dropped out which, surprise! Is going to get critiqued for unprofessional play.
However, Stephano went to bed after reaching the finals. Like.. honestly? Does Australia just quit in the finals of Cricket just because they're tired from training the day before? No.
This type of unprofessional dropping out mid-tournament(Tyler & Stephano for example) is what is holding back legitimizing Starcraft 2. When someone reads up on /r/starcraft, or one of the major E-Sport sites that "Stephano quits finals because he was tired". My first impression would be "what a joke", yours would be similar I am sure. This isn't about fanboy-ism or dislike of other players: It's a legitimate concern, about legitimizing SC2. All the eyes are on Stephano BECAUSE he was in the FINALS of a tournament, and also because he was expected to get first place and was heading there. Tyler not so much because he went down in the opening games and wasn't really looked at to be a contender in the tournament.
Like I said, this isn't about being a fan of either player, everyone SHOULD be disappointed with both players, but Stephano is going to cop it the most because he had peoples expectations going into it.
On January 30 2012 12:43 mvtaylor wrote: Hahaha Kas making Illusion look silly, talk about embarrased, so erm... yeah I've got eight bases, standard.
MVP also made MKP look bad. Both are great players, it's just that Kas is better.
Erm, what? illusion finished second in a craft cup once, that's it, this is his best ever finish and even then it's only as Stephano dropped out.
Illusion just took out Lucky and Choya last week in IPL TAC, and was able to fight pretty evenly with asd. All three of those players were Code S at some point. He has some serious potential, especially considering that he is only 15.
Like I sayd before very impressed by Illlusion happy that the NA scene has finaly produced a great sc 2 talent. When I see Illusion it reminds me of Stephano when he was unknown just the terran version he will do well in the future and I woulnt be supriced at all if he will be the best NA player soon
On January 30 2012 12:54 HappyChris wrote: Like I sayd before very impressed by Illlusion happy that the NA scene has finaly produced a great sc 2 talent. When I see Illusion it reminds me of Stephano when he was unknown just the terran version he will do well in the future and I woulnt be supriced at all if he will be the best NA player soon
i dont think illusion's great play is a result of him being on the NA server
On January 30 2012 12:46 shaberu wrote: Obviously both sides are lacking in professionalism. Sure, Stephano could have played; he certainly couldn't have cheesed out of the series, because he'd then face the same reprisal Naniwa faced. Either that, or he could forfeit. It's really not his fault that the tournament hosts hadn't provided in advance for this sort of situation. Either way, he forfeits, he takes the community damage and damage to his reputation in terms of future events inviting him. Even if Stephano doesn't care about the fans, he still placed 2nd in the tournament.
Unfortunately, ONOG showed a serious lack in judgment (on top of a lack of professionalism). Stephano legitimately placed 2nd in their tournament, yet they refused to payout to Stephano? Unless they have a signed contract claiming that Stephano will play all games out in full, what are they even thinking? Even for a snap judgment, it makes absolutely no sense. You could ask the other players if they wanted to play out some matches for the viewers, etc., but how could you be as completely unprofessional as to take a player's rightfully earned winnings, especially after the player had logged off and you had (which is your fault for lack of foresight, as if Stephano wouldn't have given you his phone number had you asked) no way of contacting him?
Disappointing on both sides, but for people running the tournaments, this is absolutely shady and works into the same sort of absurdity as not paying out to winners. Absolutely disgusting. It wouldn't even logically make sense to spite him by forcing him into 4th place; if your logic is that the winner of 3rd/4th plays for 2nd, then shouldn't Stephano logically get at least 3rd place, considering he beat at least one of the 3rd/4th place players? If he forfeited and you had some sort of terms to offer him no money for whatever reason, fine. But what sort of sense does your decision make?
I don't understand how you couldn't possibly have had some sort of alternative -- even the largest tournaments have had severe outages. What if Stephano or Kas' internet had gone out for the remainder of the night? No alternatives planned? No contact information for the players to speak to them through a more reliable medium? Unprofessional. Before you start complaining about the professionalism of the players, we also need to uphold the same standards on the "organizations" involved as well.
Also, this also brings into question the professionalism of casters. Some of them are terrible and should be upheld to the same standard we expect of others in the community, eg: Tumba.
I agree with many of the things you have said. I personally think all tournaments should have a clause that says if you forfeit you get DQ'ed. In this particular case it was a really tough decision for the tournament, put yourself in their shoes. Their whole tournament just got destroyed(not by an act of luck like power outage, but by a player you're paying) with I'm sure future tournaments depending on the success of this one (our last tournament got X viewers, etc). As far as the casters go, yes 100% casters are far too unprofessional
On January 30 2012 12:24 HappyChris wrote: The funny thing is LiquidTyler also forfeits but he didnt say any reason whatsoever but nop the TL posters got np at all with it. However when Stephano does it hole TL goes abeshit..
I seen this for so long time now it got nothing todo with what stephano did. It got everything todo that he beats players so horrible that there fans gets angry and he make so much money and people just cant accept it.
jealousy thats the word..
you see no difference between forfeiting in the finals after playing the tourney vs forfeiting before the tourney starts?
No there is no difference for me its actually worse with tyler there was no excuse. Its 5 am in EU now do you think players can stay up forever?
On January 30 2012 12:43 mvtaylor wrote: Hahaha Kas making Illusion look silly, talk about embarrased, so erm... yeah I've got eight bases, standard.
MVP also made MKP look bad. Both are great players, it's just that Kas is better.
Erm, what? illusion finished second in a craft cup once, that's it, this is his best ever finish and even then it's only as Stephano dropped out.
look at his IPL team arena results and his recent run through the sao paolo qualifier
Yeah I'll look far more closely at his performance at IEM Sao Paulo rather than a qualifier. To state that illusion, who has one TLPD honour to his name is close to Kas, who has 81 is... a bit off. You can hype and big up players a lot, goswser beat Polt at MLG and Gatored came fourth at IEM New York and beat Ganzi at Providence, what have they done since?
On January 30 2012 12:54 HappyChris wrote: Like I sayd before very impressed by Illlusion happy that the NA scene has finaly produced a great sc 2 talent. When I see Illusion it reminds me of Stephano when he was unknown just the terran version he will do well in the future and I woulnt be supriced at all if he will be the best NA player soon
i dont think illusion's great play is a result of him being on the NA server
Ofcourse not. Not what i meant im just saying the NA scene has been lacking in the talent producing area. And then surdenly a 15 year old terran player appears
I think stephano got off lucky here. The correct decision should be to DQ him entirely from the tournament and give him no ranking and therefore no prize money in such a situation. What he did was unforgivable and a slap in the face at the tourney that invited him.
EPT
