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On January 30 2012 23:19 krisss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 21:22 MrBitter wrote:On January 30 2012 21:08 Silvanel wrote:
You forget that forfeits happen all the time in variety of different sports, especialy individual. Its sad that it happened in finals, but what can You do....ONOG reaction wasnt the proper one. They should be happy that Kas is very mannered and agreed to play, he easily could say "lawl i am not going to play anyone but stephano, he isnt here? That means i win by default right?". We should be glad that players in this community are so mannered, but it wil harder and hareder the more money flows into e-sport. I've been staying pretty tight-lipped on this one, but I am going to go ahead and sound off in support of the ONOG decision. I'm going to rationalize it a little differently though. Kas and Stephano both won their semi-final matches. Stephano forfeited his spot in the final. This is not the same as Kas winning. We still had to hold our final. With Stephano out, the two "highest seeds" were Catz and Illusion. Those two played to determine who plays vs. Kas. The loser would play for 3rd place. Stephano was not there to play for 3rd, and thus forfeits, getting 4th. How is this wrong or unfair to anyone, save the viewers who were cheated out of a Kas vs Stephano final? This is some interesting way of thinking. If Djokovic broke his leg before the Aussie Open Finals, he would have been placed 4th place, according to ur new rules. Despite beating Murray in a world class semis, he would lose all his ATP points/prize money and ranking? Pathetic. You, as tournament organizers were just offended by the (yes, childish) behavior of Stephano, and were looking for a way to punish him and keep the tournament going. This are not and will never be common rules to handle such a situation, because its UNFAIR! You just invented rules to get what you want. And this is just ridiculous, and should NEVER happen. Not in sports, or anywhere else. Edit: i was always thinking that ur one of the smartest casters out there and had lots of respect for ur work. Please dont ruin it by defending some "uncommon, invented rules" 
What a stupid comparison. Did stephano's house is on fire that prevent him from playing? His excuse for not playing the final is freaking tired. You ever tell your boss I'm going to home early cause I'm tired and just leave without permission. Did stephano show any freaking respect for all the hard work people is putting up.
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On January 30 2012 23:19 krisss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 21:22 MrBitter wrote:On January 30 2012 21:08 Silvanel wrote:
You forget that forfeits happen all the time in variety of different sports, especialy individual. Its sad that it happened in finals, but what can You do....ONOG reaction wasnt the proper one. They should be happy that Kas is very mannered and agreed to play, he easily could say "lawl i am not going to play anyone but stephano, he isnt here? That means i win by default right?". We should be glad that players in this community are so mannered, but it wil harder and hareder the more money flows into e-sport. I've been staying pretty tight-lipped on this one, but I am going to go ahead and sound off in support of the ONOG decision. I'm going to rationalize it a little differently though. Kas and Stephano both won their semi-final matches. Stephano forfeited his spot in the final. This is not the same as Kas winning. We still had to hold our final. With Stephano out, the two "highest seeds" were Catz and Illusion. Those two played to determine who plays vs. Kas. The loser would play for 3rd place. Stephano was not there to play for 3rd, and thus forfeits, getting 4th. How is this wrong or unfair to anyone, save the viewers who were cheated out of a Kas vs Stephano final? This is some interesting way of thinking. If Djokovic broke his leg before the Aussie Open Finals, he would have been placed 4th place, according to ur new rules. Despite beating Murray in a world class semis, he would lose all his ATP points/prize money and ranking? Pathetic. You, as tournament organizers were just offended by the (yes, childish) behavior of Stephano, and were looking for a way to punish him and keep the tournament going. This are not and will never be common rules to handle such a situation, because its UNFAIR! You just invented rules to get what you want. And this is just ridiculous, and should NEVER happen. Not in sports, or anywhere else. Edit: i was always thinking that ur one of the smartest casters out there and had lots of respect for ur work. Please dont ruin it by defending some "uncommon, invented rules"
You cant compare that lol... If Stephano wasent abel to play it was his OWN fault from entering 2 events at same day, he should never have entered this event in the first place if can not finish it. There would be nothing wrong from even removeing him from the tournament and give no money at all.
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When he forfeited, ONOG guys lost their G.
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On January 30 2012 23:35 lazyfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 23:19 krisss wrote:On January 30 2012 21:22 MrBitter wrote:On January 30 2012 21:08 Silvanel wrote:
You forget that forfeits happen all the time in variety of different sports, especialy individual. Its sad that it happened in finals, but what can You do....ONOG reaction wasnt the proper one. They should be happy that Kas is very mannered and agreed to play, he easily could say "lawl i am not going to play anyone but stephano, he isnt here? That means i win by default right?". We should be glad that players in this community are so mannered, but it wil harder and hareder the more money flows into e-sport. I've been staying pretty tight-lipped on this one, but I am going to go ahead and sound off in support of the ONOG decision. I'm going to rationalize it a little differently though. Kas and Stephano both won their semi-final matches. Stephano forfeited his spot in the final. This is not the same as Kas winning. We still had to hold our final. With Stephano out, the two "highest seeds" were Catz and Illusion. Those two played to determine who plays vs. Kas. The loser would play for 3rd place. Stephano was not there to play for 3rd, and thus forfeits, getting 4th. How is this wrong or unfair to anyone, save the viewers who were cheated out of a Kas vs Stephano final? This is some interesting way of thinking. If Djokovic broke his leg before the Aussie Open Finals, he would have been placed 4th place, according to ur new rules. Despite beating Murray in a world class semis, he would lose all his ATP points/prize money and ranking? Pathetic. You, as tournament organizers were just offended by the (yes, childish) behavior of Stephano, and were looking for a way to punish him and keep the tournament going. This are not and will never be common rules to handle such a situation, because its UNFAIR! You just invented rules to get what you want. And this is just ridiculous, and should NEVER happen. Not in sports, or anywhere else. Edit: i was always thinking that ur one of the smartest casters out there and had lots of respect for ur work. Please dont ruin it by defending some "uncommon, invented rules" What a stupid comparison. Did stephano's house is on fire that prevent him from playing? His excuse for not playing the final is freaking tired. You ever tell your boss I'm going to home early cause I'm tired and just leave without permission. Did stephano show any freaking respect for all the hard work people is putting up.
You're not showing any respect either, double standards. Next.
Boohoo all the hard working people that are ready to turn racist the minute something negative comes up.
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On January 30 2012 23:03 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 22:59 AcuWill wrote:On January 30 2012 22:55 mvtaylor wrote:On January 30 2012 21:22 MrBitter wrote:On January 30 2012 21:54 reapsen wrote:@MrBitter: I think the main problem is, that there were no prior rules on how forfeits are to be dealt with. And the announcement by "Deric, the President of One Nation of Gamers" sounds very different, from what you just said. Quote Deric: Given that principle, I came to the decision to penalize Stephano and move him to 4th place, have Catz and Illusion play for 2nd/3rd, and have the victor play against Kas. There it sounds like, he is mad at stephano and kind of arbitrarily penalizes him by "moving him to 4th". He doesn't mention any ruleset that this decision is based on. Also no talk about Stephano giving up his spot in the finals. Not to mention that this makes no sense at all: - When you win a semi-final you are in the final. When you forfeit then, you give up the spot for 1st place. - When you forfeit a semi-final you give up the spot in the final. Ultimately, Deric okayed the decision, but I was the one who suggested we handle it the way that we did. Was Deric pissed? Maybe. I would have been. But he didn't say "man I'm mad, how can I penalize this guy?" He asked me what I would do, and I told him. The point that I would really like cleared up is this: If Stephano had known (because rules were in place) that he would have been docked $600 for logging off what would you have done if he had done a failed six pool four times, submitted you the replays in ten minutes and then gone to bed? You would have had the replays from which to cast a bo7 final from and Stephano would have earned $600 in 10 minutes. I would also really, really like to know if when Stephano was invited to this tournament weeks ago he was explicitly told that the finals would be expected to finish at around 5AM his time. Given the quality of him as a player it isn't unreasonable to expect him to make the finals, if you knew it would be so late for him was he informed? The SCAN invitiational earlier in the day showed a broadcast schedule throughout the program and although it was live it was stuck to very closely. ONOG seemed to have no idea when things would start or how long they would last, so I am willing to go with Stephano had no idea the tournament would run that late given where he lived until it had already started on the final day. Full credit to Kas for staying up until 6AM to secure the win but when you invite top europeans to a live online event it is completely unreasonable to create a playing schedule where you honestly expect them to play at stupid times. What type of timing were you expecting for a tournament organized to provide content for BARcrafts in the United States? One that is at a time acceptable for the players competing in the tournament, also I looked at the barcrafts tab last night, there were two scheduled events with 83 people attending according to the facebook links, it's not like there were hundreds of people.
Are you really going to make the argument that because there wasn't that much of an audience, the audience doesn't matter that much??? Seriously, tournaments cater over to the audience at the end of the day, not to the players.
ANd besides, since you're dealing with people in different time zones with a tournament that is going to occur throughout the day, at the very least one side is going to be inconvenienced whether the NA guys has to wake up ridiculously early and feel out of it or the EU guys are going to have to stay up really late so this is expected and should be expected.
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An idea for teams/tournament organizers- get some soap operas to sponsor your team/event. For the countless time SC2 fans prove that they love extra drama! They must love soap operas as well...
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People seem to be taking sides in a war that doesn't exist, and fighting for Stephano to get more prize money when it appears that he has accepted ONOG's decision, reflecting the fact that it was his decision to play two tournaments back to back and his decision to withdraw.
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And to all the "Tell you're boss you're tired!" lines of people - please start using your head. If you have something difficult to do, you say your boss "I'm simply too tired to finish it right now, it's 4 am, if i do, there will be huge mistakes. So it's better if we do it tomorrow". At this point "tired" is not about being tired, but about not being able to do what you're supposed to do. No boss (in a right mind) would tell you to do it, since it'd be useless work.
And that's exactly what this is about. People assume that they are missing out on some games, when they are actually better off not seeing them. If i'd see stephano lose to kas (which should not be possible, not because of skill, but kas simply is not able to beat him), i couldn't take it seriously anyway.
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On January 30 2012 14:54 Rowa wrote:
So you guys think stephano should have pulled a naniwa and 6pooled all the games of the finals ?
You gotta respect the dude for putting his health before the money, thats the right choice.
Absolutely not. I have not respect for him at all. He destroyed the integrity of this tournament that too many people worked so hard to put together. You really think his health is at risk? He's a little tired. Don't be absurd.
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Shouldn't the whole discussion be at this point:
1) Stephano should learn to manage tournament availability based on time and effort. Joining two tournaments in one day and playing for 12-14 hours is admirable, but does not excuse quitting because you chose to do that.
2) ONOG should define their forfeit rules better/enforce their lateness rules. This is true for every other tournament out there too.
So far, it seems ONOG (by Mr. Bitter's statement) is willing to make changes to prevent this from happening again. And I'm sure Stephano is taking this as a learning experience.
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My personal opinion is that it's Stephano's fault. He hasn't been playing this game for 1-2 days, he knows how tournaments go etc. Ppl actually donated money to make this even possible..it's the same as any other tournament u go into. If u accept to play it..u have to finish it.
I see no difference between what happened and the "Naniwa x-files" from blizzcup. U accept to play..u play to finish it..otherwise ppl who tune in to watch and even donated money for u to win will be upset. Ppl could take such actions as a slap to the face.
U say competitions should be more professional....how about the players that participate in them? ONOG did everything right, even the decision. Stop defending a player that had no professionalism or respect towards the viewers/fans who tuned in to watch him, or to the ppl that donated money for this tournament and wins.
Next time u know u can't play ..just don't participate. No excuse for what he did...specially someone with tournament experience.
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Stephano's actions were despicable. There are no two ways about it if you are in a tournament you play to the end. The outrage against Naniwa throwing away a meaningless game at the GSL was a huge issue for a lot of people and then Stephano literally says I'm too tired to play, give him the win in the GRAND FINALS of an event and people are defending him. This is absolutely absurd. He signed up to the tournament knowing when the finals were going to be played. Stephano behaved in an incredibly unprofessional way and there is no excuse for it.
Boohoo all the hard working people that are ready to turn racist the minute something negative comes up.
It was a fucking joke because a French player had just acted like a prick. He wasn't being a racist, and insinuating that people are turning racist because of it is laughable.
I am disgusted at Stephano's actions and I used to think quite a lot of him but now I only see him as a disgrace.
User was warned for this post
I am sorry for breaking the rules on being offensive and have changed the post accordingly.
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On January 30 2012 23:42 wklbishop wrote:
Are you really going to make the argument that because there wasn't that much of an audience, the audience doesn't matter that much??? Seriously, tournaments cater over to the audience at the end of the day, not to the players.
This is bullshit btw. Player star-power is what makes a tournament have a decent audience these days. It's probably about time tournaments started considering "hey, maybe it's a bad idea to schedule my finals for 2am onwards when it's very likely that the finalists of my tournament will be Europeans". Forcing players to play a BO7 at 2am indicates a fundamental organisational issue that needs addressing.
Tournaments should first and foremost look after the players. Badly looked after players play poor games, which in turn affects the audience's enjoyment.
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Ok well I'm glad I went to bed after the Stephano Illusion match. I would have stayed up if they went directly to the final of Kas vs Stephano, but there was a LONNNGGG pause, and then they played the 3rd place match, which no one really cared for.
Personally, I think the correct decision would have been to postpone the final until tonight!
I don't see anthing wrong with doing this.
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On January 31 2012 00:00 Shackadeemus wrote:
Ok well I'm glad I went to bed after the Stephano Illusion match. I would have stayed up if they went directly to the final of Kas vs Stephano, but there was a LONNNGGG pause, and then they played the 3rd place match, which no one really cared for.
Personally, I think the correct decision would have been to postpone the final until tonight!
I don't see anthing wrong with doing this.
Next time someone gets sleepy in the GSL grand finals, 5 minutes before it starts, i would want to see them postpone it..and say "it's ok". Even if ONOG was online..it's basically the exact same thing. Competitions should be taken seriously, specially if the player accepted to take part in it, whatever the nature of that competition.
Look at KAS...he played at 4 to 6AM in the morning..even being in zombie mode. That is dedication and true professionalism.
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On January 31 2012 00:00 Shackadeemus wrote:
Ok well I'm glad I went to bed after the Stephano Illusion match. I would have stayed up if they went directly to the final of Kas vs Stephano, but there was a LONNNGGG pause, and then they played the 3rd place match, which no one really cared for.
Personally, I think the correct decision would have been to postpone the final until tonight!
I don't see anthing wrong with doing this.
I think the reason why they didn't want to do this was because it was a tournament made specifically for barcraft - and it would be unreasonable, if not impossible, to just reschedule the finals to Monday night (some of the bars require organizers to plan in advance for it).
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He signed up to the tournament knowing when the finals were going to be played. Stephano is a little shit bag for doing what he did and there is no excuse for it.
I am disgusted at Stephano's actions and I used to think quite a lot of him but now I only see him as a disgrace.
A shit bag? really?
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A shit bag? really?
Definitely a shit bag. What he did was, IMO, worse that what Naniwa did ten times over. Not only did he abandon the finals, it was a COMMUNITY event.
edit:grammar
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On January 31 2012 00:00 Shackadeemus wrote:
Ok well I'm glad I went to bed after the Stephano Illusion match. I would have stayed up if they went directly to the final of Kas vs Stephano, but there was a LONNNGGG pause, and then they played the 3rd place match, which no one really cared for.
Personally, I think the correct decision would have been to postpone the final until tonight!
I don't see anthing wrong with doing this.
It was a community barcraft event, that does nothing for the people in the bars who supported and put together the tournament to enjoy the supposedly finals sunday.
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On January 31 2012 00:07 DilemmaEu wrote:Definitely a shit bag. What he did was, IMO, worse that what Naniwa did ten times over. Not only did he abandon the finals it was a COMMUNITY event.
Would you have preferred that he had played the finals and drone rushed every game (ironically he actually would have gotten more prize money for doing this). Come on, if Stephano did that it would have been much worse.
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EPT
