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ONOG 3K Online Invitational Jan. 28th & Jan. 29th - Page 104

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
2268 CommentsPost a Reply
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Crazyahmed
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada280 Posts
January 30 2012 12:45 GMT
#2061
stephano could have sixpooled or rush with drones, that's not a big difference. if we neglet the moral discussion i dont think the decision to replay the final is just.
mrGRAPE
Profile Joined November 2011
Singapore293 Posts
January 30 2012 12:50 GMT
#2062
On January 30 2012 21:44 MrBitter wrote:
I am personally very sorry if anyone was offended by anything said during the broadcast.


I think TumbaSC should have something to say about this
Starcraft 2 and eSports enthusiast. https://twitter.com/#!/mrGRAPETV | http://mrgrapetv.wordpress.com/
F-Decoy
Profile Joined June 2011
France245 Posts
January 30 2012 12:51 GMT
#2063
Thanks for replying, but as I said, it's not the same for all tournament. Reach a Zotac or Go4 final, forfeit it, then the other finalist win it. You are talking about IEM spot as exemple, but it's a spot before a tournament, not a spot for a round during the tournament. Hope you get my point.
What is missing is fixed rule, a general way to handle forfeit in SC2 tournaments. Sadly it's not like sports where one leading organisation write the rules, it's a lot of private tournaments where organisators do what they want (hopefully always in the best way). You don't want such misunderstanding to happen again? Just find a way to have all tournaments with the same rules; but it isn't players neither fans to do that.
Frankon
Profile Joined May 2010
3054 Posts
January 30 2012 12:53 GMT
#2064
On January 30 2012 21:22 MrBitter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2012 21:08 Silvanel wrote:
You forget that forfeits happen all the time in variety of different sports, especialy individual. Its sad that it happened in finals, but what can You do....ONOG reaction wasnt the proper one. They should be happy that Kas is very mannered and agreed to play, he easily could say "lawl i am not going to play anyone but stephano, he isnt here? That means i win by default right?". We should be glad that players in this community are so mannered, but it wil harder and hareder the more money flows into e-sport.


I've been staying pretty tight-lipped on this one, but I am going to go ahead and sound off in support of the ONOG decision.

I'm going to rationalize it a little differently though.

Kas and Stephano both won their semi-final matches.

Stephano forfeited his spot in the final.

This is not the same as Kas winning.

We still had to hold our final.

With Stephano out, the two "highest seeds" were Catz and Illusion. Those two played to determine who plays vs. Kas.

The loser would play for 3rd place.

Stephano was not there to play for 3rd, and thus forfeits, getting 4th.


How is this wrong or unfair to anyone, save the viewers who were cheated out of a Kas vs Stephano final?

The 3rd/4th place match already happened before didn't it?
reapsen
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany559 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-30 12:57:23
January 30 2012 12:54 GMT
#2065
@MrBitter: I think the main problem is, that there were no prior rules on how forfeits are to be dealt with.

And the announcement by "Deric, the President of One Nation of Gamers" sounds very different, from what you just said.

Quote Deric:
Given that principle, I came to the decision to penalize Stephano and move him to 4th place, have Catz and Illusion play for 2nd/3rd, and have the victor play against Kas.


There it sounds like, he is mad at stephano and kind of arbitrarily penalizes him by "moving him to 4th". He doesn't mention any ruleset that this decision is based on. Also no talk about Stephano giving up his spot in the finals. Not to mention that this makes no sense at all:

- When you win a semi-final you are in the final. When you forfeit then, you give up the spot for 1st place.
- When you forfeit a semi-final you give up the spot in the final.
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
January 30 2012 12:57 GMT
#2066
ESL doesn't give out price money for a person winning an IEM Spot if that person cannot attend afterwards? I thought they would still pay the winner... and if he cannot make it, he just loses his spot?

So the money is basically for qualifying / winning the qualifier + attending?
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-30 12:59:38
January 30 2012 12:58 GMT
#2067
On January 30 2012 21:53 Frankon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2012 21:22 MrBitter wrote:
On January 30 2012 21:08 Silvanel wrote:
You forget that forfeits happen all the time in variety of different sports, especialy individual. Its sad that it happened in finals, but what can You do....ONOG reaction wasnt the proper one. They should be happy that Kas is very mannered and agreed to play, he easily could say "lawl i am not going to play anyone but stephano, he isnt here? That means i win by default right?". We should be glad that players in this community are so mannered, but it wil harder and hareder the more money flows into e-sport.


I've been staying pretty tight-lipped on this one, but I am going to go ahead and sound off in support of the ONOG decision.

I'm going to rationalize it a little differently though.

Kas and Stephano both won their semi-final matches.

Stephano forfeited his spot in the final.

This is not the same as Kas winning.

We still had to hold our final.

With Stephano out, the two "highest seeds" were Catz and Illusion. Those two played to determine who plays vs. Kas.

The loser would play for 3rd place.

Stephano was not there to play for 3rd, and thus forfeits, getting 4th.


How is this wrong or unfair to anyone, save the viewers who were cheated out of a Kas vs Stephano final?

The 3rd/4th place match already happened before didn't it?


No, it had not been played.


On January 30 2012 21:54 reapsen wrote:
@MrBitter: I think the main problem is, that there were no prior rules on how forfeits are to be dealt with.

And the announcement by "Deric, the President of One Nation of Gamers" sounds very different, from what you just said.

Quote Deric:
Show nested quote +
Given that principle, I came to the decision to penalize Stephano and move him to 4th place, have Catz and Illusion play for 2nd/3rd, and have the victor play against Kas.


There it sounds like, he is mad at stephano and kind of arbitrarily penalizes him by "moving him to 4th". He doesn't mention any ruleset that this decision is based on. Also no talk about Stephano giving up his spot in the finals. Not to mention that this makes no sense at all:

- When you win a semi-final you are in the final. When you forfeit then, you give up the spot for 1st place.
- When you forfeit a semi-final you give up the spot in the final.


Ultimately, Deric okayed the decision, but I was the one who suggested we handle it the way that we did.

Was Deric pissed? Maybe. I would have been. But he didn't say "man I'm mad, how can I penalize this guy?"

He asked me what I would do, and I told him.

On January 30 2012 21:57 mTw|NarutO wrote:
ESL doesn't give out price money for a person winning an IEM Spot if that person cannot attend afterwards? I thought they would still pay the winner... and if he cannot make it, he just loses his spot?

So the money is basically for qualifying / winning the qualifier + attending?


Yes. If a player does not attend, he gets no cash.
Guidji
Profile Joined March 2011
France20 Posts
January 30 2012 12:59 GMT
#2068
On January 30 2012 21:09 leo23 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2012 19:26 Agathon wrote:
On January 30 2012 19:20 endy wrote:
On January 30 2012 19:14 Unreliablex wrote:
On January 30 2012 19:05 FoUsTy wrote:
On January 30 2012 18:37 HappyChris wrote:
On January 30 2012 18:31 FoUsTy wrote:
"How they get treated" AHAH. You know in the word, there is LOT people working (not playing) WORKING 12 hours for something like 10$ ?
Open your eyes man........................................................



Ahh so you pissed you had to work 12 hours for 10$ an hour? And you just have to lat out you frustation on stephano becuase he makes alot of money playing sc 2?

jealousy is a bitch man


I'm Doctor student...so you're totaly wrong...



Doctor student that actually has a problem writing English without the use of any fancy words. Kinda disappointing.


Out of topic, but how are medicine and writing a foreign language even remotely related ?



On January 30 2012 18:59 DirtyCash wrote:
The biggotry displayed by one of the commentators, insulting a whole country because Stephano forfeited his match is even less professional. Not looking forward anything branded ONOG in the future


What did the commentator say ?! :O


"stephano the french pride - french doing what the french do best and surrender, keeping the record in surrendering"

Truly disgusting. I will refrain from watching ONOG events.


ONOG has nothing to do with what bitter said, what I will do is refrain from watching everything with Bitter involved.
And should ONOG not hire him again, I see no problem looking at their tournament !
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
January 30 2012 13:01 GMT
#2069
On January 30 2012 21:59 Guidji wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2012 21:09 leo23 wrote:
On January 30 2012 19:26 Agathon wrote:
On January 30 2012 19:20 endy wrote:
On January 30 2012 19:14 Unreliablex wrote:
On January 30 2012 19:05 FoUsTy wrote:
On January 30 2012 18:37 HappyChris wrote:
On January 30 2012 18:31 FoUsTy wrote:
"How they get treated" AHAH. You know in the word, there is LOT people working (not playing) WORKING 12 hours for something like 10$ ?
Open your eyes man........................................................



Ahh so you pissed you had to work 12 hours for 10$ an hour? And you just have to lat out you frustation on stephano becuase he makes alot of money playing sc 2?

jealousy is a bitch man


I'm Doctor student...so you're totaly wrong...



Doctor student that actually has a problem writing English without the use of any fancy words. Kinda disappointing.


Out of topic, but how are medicine and writing a foreign language even remotely related ?



On January 30 2012 18:59 DirtyCash wrote:
The biggotry displayed by one of the commentators, insulting a whole country because Stephano forfeited his match is even less professional. Not looking forward anything branded ONOG in the future


What did the commentator say ?! :O


"stephano the french pride - french doing what the french do best and surrender, keeping the record in surrendering"

Truly disgusting. I will refrain from watching ONOG events.


ONOG has nothing to do with what bitter said, what I will do is refrain from watching everything with Bitter involved.
And should ONOG not hire him again, I see no problem looking at their tournament !


Makes me sad to read stuff like this, but it's also the best way to get your point across.
b0rt_
Profile Joined October 2011
Norway931 Posts
January 30 2012 13:01 GMT
#2070
afaik it wasn't Bitter who said that French comment.
Frankon
Profile Joined May 2010
3054 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-30 13:04:31
January 30 2012 13:02 GMT
#2071
On January 30 2012 21:57 mTw|NarutO wrote:
ESL doesn't give out price money for a person winning an IEM Spot if that person cannot attend afterwards? I thought they would still pay the winner... and if he cannot make it, he just loses his spot?

So the money is basically for qualifying / winning the qualifier + attending?

I think what he meant was that you get money for wining the qualifiers but also there is a price for last place @IEM. They are two different things.Or i got that part wrong.

MrBitter a question for you.
What is your stance on tournament changing their format in the middle their competition?
Linwelin
Profile Joined March 2011
Ireland7554 Posts
January 30 2012 13:03 GMT
#2072
On January 30 2012 21:59 Guidji wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2012 21:09 leo23 wrote:
On January 30 2012 19:26 Agathon wrote:
On January 30 2012 19:20 endy wrote:
On January 30 2012 19:14 Unreliablex wrote:
On January 30 2012 19:05 FoUsTy wrote:
On January 30 2012 18:37 HappyChris wrote:
On January 30 2012 18:31 FoUsTy wrote:
"How they get treated" AHAH. You know in the word, there is LOT people working (not playing) WORKING 12 hours for something like 10$ ?
Open your eyes man........................................................



Ahh so you pissed you had to work 12 hours for 10$ an hour? And you just have to lat out you frustation on stephano becuase he makes alot of money playing sc 2?

jealousy is a bitch man


I'm Doctor student...so you're totaly wrong...



Doctor student that actually has a problem writing English without the use of any fancy words. Kinda disappointing.


Out of topic, but how are medicine and writing a foreign language even remotely related ?



On January 30 2012 18:59 DirtyCash wrote:
The biggotry displayed by one of the commentators, insulting a whole country because Stephano forfeited his match is even less professional. Not looking forward anything branded ONOG in the future


What did the commentator say ?! :O


"stephano the french pride - french doing what the french do best and surrender, keeping the record in surrendering"

Truly disgusting. I will refrain from watching ONOG events.


ONOG has nothing to do with what bitter said, what I will do is refrain from watching everything with Bitter involved.
And should ONOG not hire him again, I see no problem looking at their tournament !


Hello there mr random 6 posts guy. If you can't take a joke I suggest you leave the internet fast
Fuck Razor and Death Prophet
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
January 30 2012 13:03 GMT
#2073
On January 30 2012 22:02 Frankon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2012 21:57 mTw|NarutO wrote:
ESL doesn't give out price money for a person winning an IEM Spot if that person cannot attend afterwards? I thought they would still pay the winner... and if he cannot make it, he just loses his spot?

So the money is basically for qualifying / winning the qualifier + attending?

I think what he meant was that you get money for wining the qualifiers but also there is a price for last place @IEM. They are two different things.Or i got that part wrong.


If you win an IEM qualifier, but choose not to attend you will not receive any money.
Black17
Profile Joined October 2011
France435 Posts
January 30 2012 13:03 GMT
#2074
On January 30 2012 21:54 reapsen wrote:
@MrBitter: I think the main problem is, that there were no prior rules on how forfeits are to be dealt with.

And the announcement by "Deric, the President of One Nation of Gamers" sounds very different, from what you just said.

Quote Deric:
Show nested quote +
Given that principle, I came to the decision to penalize Stephano and move him to 4th place, have Catz and Illusion play for 2nd/3rd, and have the victor play against Kas.


There it sounds like, he is mad at stephano and kind of arbitrarily penalizes him by "moving him to 4th". He doesn't mention any ruleset that this decision is based on. Also no talk about Stephano giving up his spot in the finals. Not to mention that this makes no sense at all:

- When you win a semi-final you are in the final. When you forfeit then, you give up the spot for 1st place.
- When you forfeit a semi-final you give up the spot in the final.


100% agree with you, it seems that the decision was taken on the rush and the explainations of MrBitter are just totally illogical (I'm sorry to say that because I like your casting and what you bring to the sc2 scene, but it's just the truth here).

Appart from that, making fun of the French at that time was very very odd and misplaced (and I say that from a very neutral pov as I'm Spanish).
reapsen
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany559 Posts
January 30 2012 13:04 GMT
#2075
@MrBitter (again): Don't get me wrong. I have organized tournaments myself and i know that its friggin frustrating if you can't finish them properly.

All i am saying is, that there should be a ruleset that is published before the tournament begins, where it is declared on how to deal with forfeits (or other reasons why games might not be played, e.g. technical difficulties).
Imho that should become as standard as publishing the mappool beforehand.

It just seems a little off, to come up with such decisions on the fly, u know?
Gator
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States3432 Posts
January 30 2012 13:04 GMT
#2076
good thing illusion decided he wasn't too tired to play 12 games in a row. and kas stayed way later than stephano too...
TSM
IMStyle
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada52 Posts
January 30 2012 13:05 GMT
#2077
it is sad that esports isn't taken seriously by the players. This is the only "professional" sport where someone forfeits a finals match. This obviously causes lower ratings, less viewers, less money.....
Its sad that fans don't take it seriously either. Keep supporting stephano and those who openly throw away games in televised matchup.. See where this sport goes.
Sexy, and I know it.
klaxen
Profile Joined April 2010
United States361 Posts
January 30 2012 13:05 GMT
#2078
Blows my mind that every time a player does something stupid everyone's angry at the tournament they screwed over.
high master protoss - low master zerg
Frankon
Profile Joined May 2010
3054 Posts
January 30 2012 13:06 GMT
#2079
On January 30 2012 22:04 Gator wrote:
good thing illusion decided he wasn't too tired to play 12 games in a row. and kas stayed way later than stephano too...

Kas had a nap... He was out early of SCAN.
rotegirte
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany2859 Posts
January 30 2012 13:07 GMT
#2080
On January 30 2012 22:05 IMStyle wrote:
it is sad that esports isn't taken seriously by the players. This is the only "professional" sport where someone forfeits a finals match. This obviously causes lower ratings, less viewers, less money.....
Its sad that fans don't take it seriously either. Keep supporting stephano and those who openly throw away games in televised matchup.. See where this sport goes.


"I demand my entertainment" ?
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