EPTONOG 3K Online Invitational Jan. 28th & Jan. 29th - Page 103
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Heathen
Philippines351 Posts
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coko
United Kingdom570 Posts
On January 30 2012 20:44 mTw|NarutO wrote: You just made yourself look stupid. I have a full-time job. Nightshifts, Lateshifts, Earlyshifts. I know how tough a job is. I do live on my own and I still invest some time into Starcraft 2. Playing a game on high level is physically demanding and tiring, if you are not able to see or feel it, you never had a high level in any game. After a 14 hour ladder run when trying to focus as much as possible I am exhausted. Its different from when I do body workout or my job, but its still exhausting and tiring and you lose so much focus over the time. Unsure where you two are taking this, but I agree that laddering is exhausting, as tournament play must be too. For reasons not to play, argument can be made on whether playing poorly or not playing at all are different, and if so why. For my two pence I'd say that Stephano was within his rights to forfeit the game, and the loss of earnings is fair in the long run for both player and organisation. Some argue he should of played, tired or not - I don't think you have a right to argue that he MUST play, he could of just left instantly with a gg, to same effect. Or tried to play and given you poor games (which are sometimes interesting, but often just disappointing). Balancing performance against public anger is sometimes hard, but I think if he wasn't comfortable playing, he did the right step by not. OGON decision to deduct him prize pool was there, they put this on for a good show, and he said he couldn't, so they altered it accordingly. Views? | ||
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feanor1
United States1899 Posts
On January 30 2012 19:31 cyclone25 wrote: If you want the players to act professional, the tournament organizers must be professional themselves first. Not other professional sport forces the players to play at 3:00am in the morning. Also Stephano just posted on twitter: "I dont understand why people can get mad cuz i gave up for onog, even if i had played the game would have been awful." This actually happens often. Overtimes happen in collegiate level and professional sports regularly(Not necessarily 3AM but overruns of 2 hours or more from overtimes or rain delays. 3AM can and has happened though). Stephano himself caused a delay, but things run over all the time by a couple hours. I've never seen anyone complain about players playing poorly at the end of a triple overtime game, people realize that the game has taken a toll and expectations for play decrease accordingly. Unless conditions force a halt, no lights ect..., teams play until a winner is decided. Even if Stephano would play at less than his best he should still play it out to the best of his abilities. Obviously Stephano can forfeit, no one can force him to play. Anyhow I think that is an attitude teams and tournaments will notice, and some will take things like this into account when choosing players. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4740 Posts
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leo23
United States3075 Posts
On January 30 2012 19:26 Agathon wrote: "stephano the french pride - french doing what the french do best and surrender, keeping the record in surrendering" Truly disgusting. I will refrain from watching ONOG events. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On January 30 2012 19:31 cyclone25 wrote: If you want the players to act professional, the tournament organizers must be professional themselves first. Not other professional sport forces the players to play at 3:00am in the morning. Also Stephano just posted on twitter: "I dont understand why people can get mad cuz i gave up for onog, even if i had played the game would have been awful." Did he not know the schedule when accepting the invitation? No one forced him to accept... It's a lously excuse. Also his twitter "justification" sounds almost exactly what Naniwa said after the whole gom-probe debacle. It's also a lously excuse. And fyi there have been proffesional sports where the games have gone on long into the night. Overtime playoff hockey games are one where they have gone on for 4-5+ hours. They didn't just stop playing because the players where tired. | ||
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coko
United Kingdom570 Posts
On January 30 2012 21:15 nihlon wrote: Did he not know the schedule when accepting the invitation? No one forced him to accept... It's a lously excuse. Also his twitter "justification" sounds almost exactly what Naniwa said after the whole gom-probe debacle. It's also a lously excuse. And fyi there have been proffesional sports where the games have gone on long into the night. Overtime playoff hockey games are one where they have gone on for 4-5+ hours. They didn't just stop playing because the players where tired. 4-5 hours isn't all day is it. Tennis allows people to stop playing when they feel they might injury themselves, or when they cannot compete. | ||
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Nyct0
United Kingdom33 Posts
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On January 30 2012 21:08 Silvanel wrote: You forget that forfeits happen all the time in variety of different sports, especialy individual. Its sad that it happened in finals, but what can You do....ONOG reaction wasnt the proper one. They should be happy that Kas is very mannered and agreed to play, he easily could say "lawl i am not going to play anyone but stephano, he isnt here? That means i win by default right?". We should be glad that players in this community are so mannered, but it wil harder and hareder the more money flows into e-sport. I've been staying pretty tight-lipped on this one, but I am going to go ahead and sound off in support of the ONOG decision. I'm going to rationalize it a little differently though. Kas and Stephano both won their semi-final matches. Stephano forfeited his spot in the final. This is not the same as Kas winning. We still had to hold our final. With Stephano out, the two "highest seeds" were Catz and Illusion. Those two played to determine who plays vs. Kas. The loser would play for 3rd place. Stephano was not there to play for 3rd, and thus forfeits, getting 4th. How is this wrong or unfair to anyone, save the viewers who were cheated out of a Kas vs Stephano final? | ||
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
On January 30 2012 21:09 leo23 wrote: Truly disgusting. I will refrain from watching ONOG events. Some people are really good at taking pointless stuff way too serious :p | ||
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coko
United Kingdom570 Posts
On January 30 2012 21:22 MrBitter wrote: I've been staying pretty tight-lipped on this one, but I am going to go ahead and sound off in support of the ONOG decision. I'm going to rationalize it a little differently though. Kas and Stephano both won their semi-final matches. Stephano forfeited his spot in the final. This is not the same as Kas winning. We still had to hold our final. With Stephano out, the two "highest seeds" were Catz and Illusion. Those two played to determine who plays vs. Kas. The loser would play for 3rd place. Stephano was not there to play for 3rd, and thus forfeits, getting 4th. How is this wrong or unfair to anyone, save the viewers who were cheated out of a Kas vs Stephano final? For the future do you think tournaments should have more ironclad rules concerning forfeits for such cases to avoid public discussions (if this can be called one) as this? | ||
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Yosheekee
France111 Posts
I won't watch ONOG events ever again. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On January 30 2012 21:25 coko wrote: For the future do you think tournaments should have more ironclad rules concerning forfeits for such cases to avoid public discussions (if this can be called one) as this? Yes, obviously. And in the future, rules will be in place to avoid situations like this. | ||
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F-Decoy
France245 Posts
A player takes a bad decision, ONOG team takes one too, just see. Now I would ask something, from Kas point of view: he won the final because Stephano gave him the free win, ok. But what would have been his reaction if Illusion won the last match against Kas? Loosing money because of a rule no one saw before isn't that fair. I don't give a f*** about childish (or not) decision from a player because he's just one guy out of the mass, but Im worried about tournaments organisation in the future tbh. | ||
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djfoxmccloud
France185 Posts
On January 30 2012 21:29 MrBitter wrote: Yes, obviously. And in the future, rules will be in place to avoid situations like this. Mr Bitter, apart of the forfeit problem, will there be any official apology to explain that "joke" against French people ? | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On January 30 2012 21:29 MrBitter wrote: Yes, obviously. And in the future, rules will be in place to avoid situations like this. If you want to count his forfeit as 'disqualification' he's neither 2nd nor 4th. Its correct that Stephanos forfeit is not the same as a win of Kas in terms of common sense, but in the matter of the result it is. Stephano did beat Illusion 3-1, how can he be ranked below him? Stephano did not give up his SPOT in the finals, but gave up his match against Kas I think. Either way, tournaments should have clear rules and I think the only way for ONOG to get out of this is... basically gone by now, because they made their decision. They either can choose to still pay Stephano the deserved 2nd place AND do the same with Illusion or decide to completely disqualify Stephano from the tournament. Either way its messy. Too bad, I hope situations like this will not occur in future tournaments as it makes eSport in general look more or less unprofessional or unclear. Obviously forfeits happen in professional sports but at least there are set rules for those situations. I don't blame ONOG nor Stephano and we should all learn from that. It is kind of sad that we cannot run tournaments properly without setting everything in stone, but thats just how it works. Thats why players have contracts as well, because it doesn't work without them. Anyways thanks for posting your point of view. | ||
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rotegirte
Germany2859 Posts
On January 30 2012 21:29 MrBitter wrote: Yes, obviously. And in the future, rules will be in place to avoid situations like this. Your point of view makes sense in a way. Though that would mean that nearly every occurrence of forfeit in the past has been handled incorrectly? For example, every forfeit in MLG consolation matches should have resulted in a complete loss of circuit points accordingly? | ||
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coko
United Kingdom570 Posts
On January 30 2012 21:35 mTw|NarutO wrote: If you want to count his forfeit as 'disqualification' he's neither 2nd nor 4th. Its correct that Stephanos forfeit is not the same as a win of Kas in terms of common sense, but in the matter of the result it is. Stephano did beat Illusion 3-1, how can he be ranked below him? Stephano did not give up his SPOT in the finals, but gave up his match against Kas I think. Either way, tournaments should have clear rules and I think the only way for ONOG to get out of this is... basically gone by now, because they made their decision. They either can choose to still pay Stephano the deserved 2nd place AND do the same with Illusion or decide to completely disqualify Stephano from the tournament. Either way its messy. Too bad, I hope situations like this will not occur in future tournaments as it makes eSport in general look more or less unprofessional or unclear. Obviously forfeits happen in professional sports but at least there are set rules for those situations. I don't blame ONOG nor Stephano and we should all learn from that. It is kind of sad that we cannot run tournaments properly without setting everything in stone, but thats just how it works. Thats why players have contracts as well, because it doesn't work without them. Anyways thanks for posting your point of view. Do you think it would of been better to have stated that by not playing the finals, Stephano was in forfeit for his match against Illusion and thus Illusion would progress? Stephano would be given 4th, since he would forfeit against Catz by default and they'd have their finals. | ||
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coko
United Kingdom570 Posts
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On January 30 2012 21:31 F-Decoy wrote: I won't argue what is good, what is not, neither talk about any exemple from tennis or so. But so far, every forfeit in SC2 tournaments ended in the lose of the upcomming match, not the one before. A player takes a bad decision, ONOG team takes one too, just see. Now I would ask something, from Kas point of view: he won the final because Stephano gave him the free win, ok. But what would have been his reaction if Illusion won the last match against Kas? Loosing money because of a rule no one saw before isn't that fair. I don't give a f*** about childish (or not) decision from a player because he's just one guy out of the mass, but Im worried about tournaments organisation in the future tbh. Prior to his games vs Illusion, Kas had not one the final. Kas won a semi-final match. That is all. On January 30 2012 21:32 djfoxmccloud wrote: Mr Bitter, apart of the forfeit problem, will there be any official apology to explain that "joke" against French people ? I am personally very sorry if anyone was offended by anything said during the broadcast. On January 30 2012 21:35 mTw|NarutO wrote: If you want to count his forfeit as 'disqualification' he's neither 2nd nor 4th. Its correct that Stephanos forfeit is not the same as a win of Kas in terms of common sense, but in the matter of the result it is. Stephano did beat Illusion 3-1, how can he be ranked below him? Stephano did not give up his SPOT in the finals, but gave up his match against Kas I think. Either way, tournaments should have clear rules and I think the only way for ONOG to get out of this is... basically gone by now, because they made their decision. They either can choose to still pay Stephano the deserved 2nd place AND do the same with Illusion or decide to completely disqualify Stephano from the tournament. Either way its messy. Too bad, I hope situations like this will not occur in future tournaments as it makes eSport in general look more or less unprofessional or unclear. Obviously forfeits happen in professional sports but at least there are set rules for those situations. I don't blame ONOG nor Stephano and we should all learn from that. It is kind of sad that we cannot run tournaments properly without setting everything in stone, but thats just how it works. Thats why players have contracts as well, because it doesn't work without them. Anyways thanks for posting your point of view. I don't see this as being any different from how we run events at IEM. If somebody qualifies for an event, and then forfeits their spot, IEM is not going to send them the $600 they won by qualifying. Stephano forfeited his spot in the final, and he was not present to play for third place. Yes, it would have been better if language was in place to prevent a situation like this, but I have zero qualms with the way it was handled. Edit: And to be completely clear, I would have loved to have discussed this whole situation in depth with Stephano, but he logged off, leaving us in a position where we had to make a decision. | ||
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and good luck with your new team
