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[GSL] January Up&Downs Day 3 - Page 120

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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_Galad_
Profile Joined September 2011
Greece184 Posts
December 21 2011 12:47 GMT
#2381
On December 21 2011 21:34 Tachion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 21:28 eXNewB wrote:
check this out

[image loading]

What's the source on this?


2 Koreans speaking english... yes I'm sure it's legit!

Anyway... GZ to Zenio he still beat Losira so whatever happened in the last game doesn't matter so much...
GL in Code S
Channel the Light of Aiur...
Inflicted
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia18228 Posts
December 21 2011 12:47 GMT
#2382
On December 21 2011 21:44 MrCon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 21:42 Myles wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:40 Maenander wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:38 Giriath wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:35 silverstyle wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:28 tree.hugger wrote:
If InCa had meant to give the game away, I can't imagine why he'd have scouted and pressured with those two early zealots. Better to just get 'surprised' by what Zenio does, or lose the game through passivity, no? Doesn't make sense to build five cannons and then misplace a building, that's not a good way to purposely lose the game.


^This was what I was thinking too, if I was Inca and wanted to throw the game I wouldn't have scouted and went for DTs straight up, perhaps with some minute delays between each building, that way if Zenio busted my front there was nothing that I could do and no one would say anything.

IMO no matter what Inca did, if he made ANY MISTAKES AT ALL during the match, losira and polt fans would still cry foul. I'm sure Inca would know of the shitstorm that would ensue if he lost by making bad mistakes, but well... its Inca?


There are any number of ways to throw a game. Perhaps the most subtle is to not make any attacks that could kill your opponent.

I'm sad this community can't focus on what is important, so we wouldn't have this format and these arguments.

It doesn't matter whether or not he intentionally threw the game or didn't play at his best because he was already through even if he lost, what matters is that because of the format he could.

It's a bad format that is unfair to the players who don't get to face an opponent who may or may not give it their best because they're already through, and it's a bad format because it gives incentive for matchmaking (that doesn't have to planned) when a player who is already through faces a friend or teammate.

This. It makes no sense to accuse Inca. Situations like this one should be avoided whenever possible.

Isn't not having group style play the only way to stop this?

Previously in the up and downs they always made teammates play first, even if they had to change the schedule. But this time it seems they're not considered teammates anymore.


Then again, it gives one person the power to choose who would proceed into Code S. Had InCa and Zenio not been affiliated as former teammates (though all korean programers are probably friends), then InCa could still choose the throw the game solely on making his chances in Code S easier without Losira or Polt.
Liquipedia"Expert"
Seeker *
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
Where dat snitch at?37064 Posts
December 21 2011 12:49 GMT
#2383
Regarding the image of the battle.net conversation:

We see Zenio's name

but the msgs from the other guy is from "my message." No name.

No proof there.

Please stop the accusations
ModeratorPeople ask me, "Seeker, what are you seeking?" My answer? "Sleep, damn it! Always sleep!"
TL+ Member
Hassybaby
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom10823 Posts
December 21 2011 12:49 GMT
#2384
On December 21 2011 21:47 rushian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 21:46 vgijamven wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:44 Unreliablex wrote:
Inca did not throw away the game


See http://i.imgur.com/oKdD5.png

What the hell is this supposed to show. And why is one using english~?


Because its apparently Huk and Zenio

Zenio's ID in the game was Liquid'Zenio anyways IIRC...
"These guys are mindfucking me into a sex coma" | "Mayonnaise is a must-have lubricant when performing necrophilia"
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
December 21 2011 12:50 GMT
#2385
On December 21 2011 21:47 Inflicted_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 21:44 MrCon wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:42 Myles wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:40 Maenander wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:38 Giriath wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:35 silverstyle wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:28 tree.hugger wrote:
If InCa had meant to give the game away, I can't imagine why he'd have scouted and pressured with those two early zealots. Better to just get 'surprised' by what Zenio does, or lose the game through passivity, no? Doesn't make sense to build five cannons and then misplace a building, that's not a good way to purposely lose the game.


^This was what I was thinking too, if I was Inca and wanted to throw the game I wouldn't have scouted and went for DTs straight up, perhaps with some minute delays between each building, that way if Zenio busted my front there was nothing that I could do and no one would say anything.

IMO no matter what Inca did, if he made ANY MISTAKES AT ALL during the match, losira and polt fans would still cry foul. I'm sure Inca would know of the shitstorm that would ensue if he lost by making bad mistakes, but well... its Inca?


There are any number of ways to throw a game. Perhaps the most subtle is to not make any attacks that could kill your opponent.

I'm sad this community can't focus on what is important, so we wouldn't have this format and these arguments.

It doesn't matter whether or not he intentionally threw the game or didn't play at his best because he was already through even if he lost, what matters is that because of the format he could.

It's a bad format that is unfair to the players who don't get to face an opponent who may or may not give it their best because they're already through, and it's a bad format because it gives incentive for matchmaking (that doesn't have to planned) when a player who is already through faces a friend or teammate.

This. It makes no sense to accuse Inca. Situations like this one should be avoided whenever possible.

Isn't not having group style play the only way to stop this?

Previously in the up and downs they always made teammates play first, even if they had to change the schedule. But this time it seems they're not considered teammates anymore.


Then again, it gives one person the power to choose who would proceed into Code S. Had InCa and Zenio not been affiliated as former teammates (though all korean programers are probably friends), then InCa could still choose the throw the game solely on making his chances in Code S easier without Losira or Polt.

If inca zenio was played first, inca would still have had to win to be sure of advancing, wouldn't he ? Well, that's why I thought at least.
TheRidd
Profile Joined January 2011
713 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-21 12:51:33
December 21 2011 12:50 GMT
#2386
On December 21 2011 21:44 Fionn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 21:42 TheRidd wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:41 DropTester wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:37 GrungyMunchy wrote:
Bomber didn't have any problems with bo1s. I'm guessing it's because he's actually Code S level.


Bomber's play seem inconsistent, sometimes he plays really well, other times not so well. Not a great example to use

But then if Losira and Polt are so consistent why did they lose to Inca?


They both got cheesed. Not saying that isn't a perfectly okay strategy, but that doesn't mean Losira/Polt are not Code S level when it comes to talent. Both players are definitely Code S talent.

Indeed they are, but losira lost to a more or less cheese to Inca and lost a macro game to Zenio. I feel bad for Polt though, i really like the chap :p
nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
December 21 2011 12:51 GMT
#2387
On December 21 2011 21:44 Unreliablex wrote:
People that believe that Inca and/or Zenio even has a chance in Code S better be joking.
Out of the two Zenio is the better player, but I still think Code A is the place to be.

Inca did not throw away the game, he really just is a diamond player with cheese tactics.


1) If they lose right away in code s they will pretty much be in code a with the new format. I don't see the big deal.
2) It's ridiciouls to call Inca a diamond player.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-21 12:56:03
December 21 2011 12:51 GMT
#2388
On December 21 2011 21:47 Zeroxk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 21:43 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Regardless or whether Inca threw the game or not the vast majority of the games in Up-and-Downs have been universally poor, and the BO1s exacerbate it by heavily rewarding one-time cute builds. Most of these players do not deserve to be in Code S, let alone Code A with the display of poor play they've showcased over the last 3 days. Personally I think the qualification process needs to be a lot more strict.


Rofl first people complain that the Code S bottleneck is too tight and now it's too wide? Can't please everyone it seems


GSL is supposed to be the showcase of the best SC2 talent in the world. What I've seen over the last 3 days is nothing short of embarrassing and it's largely due to the fact that BO1s reward short-term strategies that gain an immediate advantage. Almost all the games that have gone into the late game have been terrible from one side of the match. I didn't get up at 4:00 a.m. to watch Tassadar suicide 3 armies for no reason, Zenio forget upgrades for 17 minutes, Killer forgetting the meaning of "army positioning", and Virus pretending that he's playing PvT.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Hassybaby
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom10823 Posts
December 21 2011 12:52 GMT
#2389
On December 21 2011 21:49 Hassybaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 21:47 rushian wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:46 vgijamven wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:44 Unreliablex wrote:
Inca did not throw away the game


See http://i.imgur.com/oKdD5.png

What the hell is this supposed to show. And why is one using english~?


Because its apparently Huk and Zenio

Zenio's ID in the game was Liquid'Zenio anyways IIRC...


Nvm, it was just Zenio. Statement stands though. Clearly a picture from somewhere else
"These guys are mindfucking me into a sex coma" | "Mayonnaise is a must-have lubricant when performing necrophilia"
Inflicted
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia18228 Posts
December 21 2011 12:52 GMT
#2390
On December 21 2011 21:50 MrCon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 21:47 Inflicted_ wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:44 MrCon wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:42 Myles wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:40 Maenander wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:38 Giriath wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:35 silverstyle wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:28 tree.hugger wrote:
If InCa had meant to give the game away, I can't imagine why he'd have scouted and pressured with those two early zealots. Better to just get 'surprised' by what Zenio does, or lose the game through passivity, no? Doesn't make sense to build five cannons and then misplace a building, that's not a good way to purposely lose the game.


^This was what I was thinking too, if I was Inca and wanted to throw the game I wouldn't have scouted and went for DTs straight up, perhaps with some minute delays between each building, that way if Zenio busted my front there was nothing that I could do and no one would say anything.

IMO no matter what Inca did, if he made ANY MISTAKES AT ALL during the match, losira and polt fans would still cry foul. I'm sure Inca would know of the shitstorm that would ensue if he lost by making bad mistakes, but well... its Inca?


There are any number of ways to throw a game. Perhaps the most subtle is to not make any attacks that could kill your opponent.

I'm sad this community can't focus on what is important, so we wouldn't have this format and these arguments.

It doesn't matter whether or not he intentionally threw the game or didn't play at his best because he was already through even if he lost, what matters is that because of the format he could.

It's a bad format that is unfair to the players who don't get to face an opponent who may or may not give it their best because they're already through, and it's a bad format because it gives incentive for matchmaking (that doesn't have to planned) when a player who is already through faces a friend or teammate.

This. It makes no sense to accuse Inca. Situations like this one should be avoided whenever possible.

Isn't not having group style play the only way to stop this?

Previously in the up and downs they always made teammates play first, even if they had to change the schedule. But this time it seems they're not considered teammates anymore.


Then again, it gives one person the power to choose who would proceed into Code S. Had InCa and Zenio not been affiliated as former teammates (though all korean programers are probably friends), then InCa could still choose the throw the game solely on making his chances in Code S easier without Losira or Polt.

If inca zenio was played first, inca would still have had to win to be sure of advancing, wouldn't he ? Well, that's why I thought at least.


In this case, yes. But the format itself presents that opportunity and someone else like Polt could've had the power to deny Losira from getting Code S because it's more beneficial for him.
Liquipedia"Expert"
Reasonable
Profile Joined September 2010
Ukraine1432 Posts
December 21 2011 12:52 GMT
#2391
Hmm. I actually like everyone in this group so I'm not upset about it, but clearly Polt and Losira should have made it through. Inca was my last pick.
Selendis
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia509 Posts
December 21 2011 12:52 GMT
#2392
Yes I think he deliberately lost (apart from knowing zenio pretty well, nobody wants to face polt or losira in code s).

BUT

That's jsut my opinion.

Innocent until proven guilty, I say. And there's no way to prove that Inca threw the game as opposed to making an honest mistake unless he admits it, which he won't.

So, there's no use carrying on about it.

And for those comparing him to naniwa... at least Inca was smart enough to cover his tracks.
Probes are sooo OP
Pholon
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Netherlands6142 Posts
December 21 2011 12:53 GMT
#2393
Locked while I ban people for making matchfix accusations. Will unlock in a minute. In the meantime: be warned.
Moderator@TLPholon // "I need a third hand to facepalm right now"
Pholon
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Netherlands6142 Posts
December 21 2011 13:10 GMT
#2394
This is fucking depressing. Got 20+ people lined up for 1 week trips to Disneyland.

Matchfixing accusations are probably among the gravest and most serious things you can do. Consequently they should not be taken lightly and supported by solid evidence. If we cannot see eye-to-eye on this get ready to take your conspiracy theories elsewhere.
Moderator@TLPholon // "I need a third hand to facepalm right now"
Mobius_1
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2763 Posts
December 21 2011 13:11 GMT
#2395
My imaginary post-group interview:

"Inca, very well done today, but people will doubt your effort in the final game and your cheesy strategies, how do you feel about this?"
"You'll bash me. You'll condemn me, set the trolls on me. Because that's what needs to happen. Because sometimes... macro games aren't good enough. Sometimes people deserve more. Sometimes people deserve to have their workers slaughtered. This town deserves a better class of cheese. And I'm gonna give it to 'em."

"How far do you think you can get in Code S?"
"From the moment I picked up SC2, all those months ago, not a day has gone by when I haven't thought of winning Code S. And now that I'm in Code S again... I'm in agony. The closer I get to the title, the worse it gets. The thought of not being winning Code S- I can't breathe. I'm haunted by the final that I should never have got to. My heart is beating... hoping that final will not become a scar. The Code S title is in my very soul, tormenting me... what can I do?- I will do anything it takes."

"Do you have any strategy advice for other Protoss players?"
"DTs! Gatewat is the path to the Dark Shrine. Gateway leads to Cybernetics Core. Cybernetics Core leads to Twilight Council. Twilight Council leads to Dark Shrine. I sense many Gateways you will make."
Starleague Forever. RIP KT Violet~
bgx
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland6595 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-21 13:15:20
December 21 2011 13:13 GMT
#2396
On December 21 2011 22:10 Pholon wrote:
This is fucking depressing. Got 20+ people lined up for 1 week trips to Disneyland.

Matchfixing accusations are probably among the gravest and most serious things you can do. Consequently they should not be taken lightly and supported by solid evidence. If we cannot see eye-to-eye on this get ready to take your conspiracy theories elsewhere.

some spectators are still not used to group play phenomena :p

and its easier to accept thrown games rather than the fact your favorite player sucked when it mattered
Stork[gm]
pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
December 21 2011 13:13 GMT
#2397
On December 21 2011 21:52 Hassybaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 21:49 Hassybaby wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:47 rushian wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:46 vgijamven wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:44 Unreliablex wrote:
Inca did not throw away the game


See http://i.imgur.com/oKdD5.png

What the hell is this supposed to show. And why is one using english~?


Because its apparently Huk and Zenio

Zenio's ID in the game was Liquid'Zenio anyways IIRC...


Nvm, it was just Zenio. Statement stands though. Clearly a picture from somewhere else


If you're right the guy who posted it should be punished, throwing a random screenshot just to accuse a guy or create drama... -_-
friedchicken
Profile Joined May 2011
United States143 Posts
December 21 2011 13:14 GMT
#2398
On December 21 2011 21:53 Pholon wrote:
Locked while I ban people for making matchfix accusations.


TL <3's you Pholon.

<3
"Don't panic" - The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Telcontar
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom16710 Posts
December 21 2011 13:14 GMT
#2399
Flat out accusing players of match fixing is of course wrong, but we should be allowed to question the integrity of something if it seems off. A protoss player failing to wall off his front when he has scouted a bust coming for a good amount of time (enough to plant down ~6 cannons, make additional gateways) doesn't happen often at this level. Now it could of course be a pure coincidence that it occured in a game where the protoss player losing would mean both players advance, and that they're former teammates & friends. It could just be that he messed up. However, we cannot completely rule out that something else was at work. We've seen enough incidents of this nature to not take everything on blind faith.

Of course this is impossible to look further into, and thus you might argue that it is pointless to even voice these suspicions and concerns. However, I believe everyone has a right to speak their mind as long as it is done with reason and respect.
Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.
Hassybaby
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom10823 Posts
December 21 2011 13:15 GMT
#2400
On December 21 2011 22:13 pPingu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 21:52 Hassybaby wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:49 Hassybaby wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:47 rushian wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:46 vgijamven wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:44 Unreliablex wrote:
Inca did not throw away the game


See http://i.imgur.com/oKdD5.png

What the hell is this supposed to show. And why is one using english~?


Because its apparently Huk and Zenio

Zenio's ID in the game was Liquid'Zenio anyways IIRC...


Nvm, it was just Zenio. Statement stands though. Clearly a picture from somewhere else


If you're right the guy who posted it should be punished, throwing a random screenshot just to accuse a guy or create drama... -_-


Have a look at the game (the VODs are up.) It says Zenio, but the pic says oGsZenio
"These guys are mindfucking me into a sex coma" | "Mayonnaise is a must-have lubricant when performing necrophilia"
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