EPTOn November 28 2011 08:05 CeriseCherries wrote:
Oz (beause he's a wizard) and MVP (because he's MVP :0)
Oz (beause he's a wizard) and MVP (because he's MVP :0)
Nice predictions.
Here's another one... Leenock wins the finals 4-0.
[GSL] Nov Code S RO4 - Page 187
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kiy0
Portugal593 Posts
Nice predictions. Here's another one... Leenock wins the finals 4-0. | ||
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Femari
United States2900 Posts
but congrats to leenock. can't wait to get home and watch the vods of that match. | ||
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ImperialTea
France187 Posts
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Antithesis
Germany1273 Posts
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:13 Femari wrote: wondering if everyone still thinks terran is op these days with all these results There's still a bit of bias towards Terran on TL, but there's also something far worse in my opinion (as a Protoss player  ).From the time when Protoss was almost definitely objectively UP, there formed somewhat of a knee-jerk reaction by Terran players, to the point where they would jump on every Protoss win as proof that the game was balanced. This has carried on while most Protoss whining has died down, so rather than whines about Terran being OP these days there are far more "whines about the whining", if you like, which is astoundingly ironic to me seeing as most of the whining in the first place has died down. The number of posts I see in LR threads decrying Protoss whiners, when times have since changed, surprise me until I remember I'm browsing a page on the Internet, with all that entails. | ||
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s4life
Peru1519 Posts
On November 29 2011 01:40 Flonomenalz wrote: All I got from your post was BW elitism, lmao. I'm pretty sure Nestea and MVP have been considered the best in the world in SC2 for more than "a few weeks". You act like Flash, Jaedong and Bisu never lose games and win every title. There are plenty of top players in BW that can take games off of each other at any point in any tournament. You see, Flash will lose against Janbi in the finals, a top player, Nestea will lose against Haypro, MVP against Leenok - who two weeks ago was not considered a fav to win anything. You will never see Flash or Jaedong losing against rookies or ladder heroes or unknown/average players in tournament settings, and it's not BW elitism, it's just recognizing that SC2 is in its infancy. | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:22 s4life wrote: You see, Flash will lose against Janbi in the finals, a top player, Nestea will lose against Haypro, MVP against Leenok - who two weeks ago was not considered a fav to win anything. You will never see Flash or Jaedong losing against rookies or ladder heroes in tournament settings, and it's not BW elitism, it's just recognizing that SC2 is in its infancy. Never is going a bit far. Jangbi had just been in an AWFUL slump for ages when he beat Flash in the OSL (and it also wasn't the finals, btw). I'm pretty sure he was considered about as far from Flash in terms of skill as Leenock was from MVP, if not more. Sure, Flash had his wrist problems, but then so does MVP. If what you're trying to say is that nobody in SC2 is utterly dominating yet, you are correct. But that does not take a paragraph to write, and doesn't require so much (apparent) insinuation that BW > SC2. Perhaps that wasn't your intention, but tone is hard to get across on the Internet. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
All be it if he wins, but i think everyone has him as clear favorite. | ||
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Chicane
United States7875 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:16 Antithesis wrote: I rarely watch GSL, but today I'd have loved to see the MVP vs. Leenock series. Holy crap, be 16, beat MVP. Why do people keep mentioning his age over and over? It is quite impressive that he got into it at such a young age, but now that he has it isn't like he has some inherent mental disadvantage that makes him beating MVP while being 16 so amazing. | ||
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s4life
Peru1519 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:28 SeaSwift wrote: Never is going a bit far. Jangbi had just been in an AWFUL slump for ages when he beat Flash in the OSL (and it also wasn't the finals, btw). I'm pretty sure he was considered about as far from Flash in terms of skill as Leenock was from MVP, if not more. Sure, Flash had his wrist problems, but then so does MVP. If what you're trying to say is that nobody in SC2 is utterly dominating yet, you are correct. But that does not take a paragraph to write, and doesn't require so much (apparent) insinuation that BW > SC2. Perhaps that wasn't your intention, but tone is hard to get across on the Internet. Well, Jangbi was a previous Starleague winner and quite capable of beating anyone at his best, hardly the unknown/average player with no previous accomplishments of any sort like Haypro or two-weeks-ago Leenok. My point is that SC2 due to being a newer game or an 'easier' game or a game in which luck plays a more important role than BW, makes it very hard for players to be consistent. Last DH winter tourney we saw DRG, Idra, Kas, Thorzain, Huk, Sase, Genius and so on lose against lesser players. That's something you don't see in BW tbh. This isn't BW elitism, but definitely it needs to be said to put in perspective how far along is SC2. | ||
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hotwings
42 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:38 Chicane wrote: Why do people keep mentioning his age over and over? It is quite impressive that he got into it at such a young age, but now that he has it isn't like he has some inherent mental disadvantage that makes him beating MVP while being 16 so amazing. It's the same reason why people were impressed with older people doing well in sc2. As you grow older your priorities change alot. Older people are often more caught up in stuff like getting married, kids, and paying for thier mortgage. So when an older person is able to throw themselves whole heartedly into a single persuit and succeed it's atypical. The same applies for a 16 year old. At 16 I was worried about getting girls, and figuring out wtf I was going to do with the rest of my life. At 16 leenock is able to focus and be truly great at something. Finding that "something" often takes people a whole lifetime to achieve. | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:03 SeaSwift wrote: The flaw in that thinking is you're making the assumption that when people switched to SC2 their BW experience wouldn't help them. There's no absolutely objective way to judge whether it has, but I think it's safe to say that playing BW for a few years probably helped MVP become as good as he is. If MVP had just picked up SC2 without having any prior BW pro experience, it would be a lot harder for him to be the best. This is why it is shocking that Leenock is doing so well: he is so young that he cannot have had any prior BW pro experience, so he is what SC2 fans have been waiting for so long: a star that grew from SC2, rather than being a star who already played BW. To be truly successful, a few posts have argued that SC2 needs to have its own stars, rather than washed up switch-overs from BW. Whether or not I agree with that is irrelevant - the fact that he is so young IS relevant, so don't dismiss it so easily. THAT is why his age is an issue. Not because people think it's some kind of mental disability. | ||
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FSUmaru
Canada61 Posts
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ILoveAustralia
Bangladesh104 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:38 Chicane wrote: Why do people keep mentioning his age over and over? It is quite impressive that he got into it at such a young age, but now that he has it isn't like he has some inherent mental disadvantage that makes him beating MVP while being 16 so amazing. it seems to me that some people seem angry being that it was a 16 year old that are beating 20-30 year old guys. Also pros that played BW like 12 years ago making Leenock around 4 when BW was out i believe.. There was also a time where calling someone a 12 year old is an insult on the internet.. But imagine if some 12 year old sc2 player came in and started crawling his way to the finals, does anyone believe that viewers can be turned off due to the fact that a 12 year old can dominate? If i recall a korean 12 year old did make it into Code A and if my memory served me correctly he beat Leenock as well (i am not entirely certain). But a 12 year old kid making it into Code A that would of been awesome for him. Think of the countless foreign players that come from overseas with a team trying to get into the Code A qualifiers and failed. Some make it thru the qualifiers but to me it seemed like alot of em couldn't get in, but this kid managed to do it and assuming hes just a ladder player then it sounds kind of embarrassing for foreign players if ya ask me. But other than that GOOO LEENOCK!!!!!!!! this kids of potential untapped.. | ||
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Snaphoo
United States614 Posts
On November 29 2011 00:43 s4life wrote: Yup, the underlying points being: a) Luck plays a huge role in SC2, much more so than BW. b) Compared to BW pros, pretty much every SC2 player -- except maybe for MVP -- sucks big time as it only takes a few weeks for his style to be 'found out'. c) There is no best in the world in SC2 ala Flash, Jaedong or Bisu -- maybe except for MVP -- there are several players at the top, who can take off games of each other at any point, tournaments and stakes level. Brood War troll... the person you're replying to didn't even bring up BW but it is the central focus of your post. Especially the "compared to bW pros, pretty much every SC2 player sucks big time" shows that you have little respect for the skill of these players. MVP was an A-Team BW player and is not winning with consistency at the moment even if he is probably the most consistent player-- I don't see how that means that SC2 players "suck big time." Stick to BW threads or else leave your condescension behind when you do post in SC2 threads. | ||
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Jetaap
France4814 Posts
Only bad thing is that MVP won't reach the final, and he deserves it so much more than jiyaki... it's a shame that leenock vs mvp was no the final. | ||
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MaestrO_
United States591 Posts
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Poopi
France13022 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:53 ih8Australia wrote: it seems to me that some people seem angry being that it was a 16 year old that are beating 20-30 year old guys. Also pros that played BW like 12 years ago making Leenock around 4 when BW was out i believe.. There was also a time where calling someone a 12 year old is an insult on the internet.. But imagine if some 12 year old sc2 player came in and started crawling his way to the finals, does anyone believe that viewers can be turned off due to the fact that a 12 year old can dominate? If i recall a korean 12 year old did make it into Code A and if my memory served me correctly he beat Leenock as well (i am not entirely certain). But a 12 year old kid making it into Code A that would of been awesome for him. Think of the countless foreign players that come from overseas with a team trying to get into the Code A qualifiers and failed. Some make it thru the qualifiers but to me it seemed like alot of em couldn't get in, but this kid managed to do it and assuming hes just a ladder player then it sounds kind of embarrassing for foreign players if ya ask me. But other than that GOOO LEENOCK!!!!!!!! this kids of potential untapped.. The younger he is the better it is because he will be able to play at his best level for a lot of years. But the fact that you are good at 14 or 16 or 18 doesn't mean that you'll be better at 20 than people that are 20 now | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
Great series, there is no doubt in my mind now that Leenock is the best zerg in the world atm. Nestea has been playing ridiculously poor considering his normal play for some time now, and the only reason people were still calling him the best zerg was because it was unclear who among DRG/Leenock/Coca/etc were the best. Leenock has been around since GSL Season 2, where he lost to Nada 2-1 in the ro16. The next season he came back and trounched Clide in one of the most hyped macro series ever. Even when he fell down to Code A later on, nobody could deny that he was there because of his terrible luck in oppenents instead of just bad play. Now leenock is back, and looking consistenly strong everywhere. The only place Nestea might have on him is ZvZ, but Leenock blows him out of the water in ZvT and ZvP, and not just in mechanics, but understanding. (MLG finals is a great example of this.) Is Leenock the best player overall right now? No I do not think so. He has had two great runs so far, but he has dropped games, and not just to MVP. Also his games against MVP today were close, on ZERG FAVORED maps. I think that, in a bo7, MVP would still be the favorite. Not to mention MVP is considerably stronger in his mirror mu. As for vs P, it's hard to say. It has always been MVP's weakness, but he did trounch MC at MLG, so it's hard to say. Given time to prepare, I'm sure MVP's vP would be top notch. So yeah, Leenock is definetely one of the top 2/top 3 players in the world right now. But I would urge everyone to wait on calling him the best in the world for at least a little while longer. Just remember, MVP's latest 3 tournament results are 2nd, 4th, and 3rd/4th, that is still amazingly sick. Lets see how Leenock does vs Jjaki before we decide anything. Oh, and I guess the one good thing about Leenock losing is we can stop with this bonjwa crap. Can we please just leave that term for BW and come up with a different one for the current best player in SC2, like bongjiggidy or something? | ||
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ROOTheognis
United States4482 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:50 hotwings wrote: It's the same reason why people were impressed with older people doing well in sc2. As you grow older your priorities change alot. Older people are often more caught up in stuff like getting married, kids, and paying for thier mortgage. So when an older person is able to throw themselves whole heartedly into a single persuit and succeed it's atypical. The same applies for a 16 year old. At 16 I was worried about getting girls, and figuring out wtf I was going to do with the rest of my life. At 16 leenock is able to focus and be truly great at something. Finding that "something" often takes people a whole lifetime to achieve. Or just take Leenock's 16 year old approach. If I become enough off a BAUCE WITH THE SAUCE at SC2. I'll get the B*%##ES :D | ||
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