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[GSL] Nov Code S RO4 - Page 188

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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vanhio
Profile Joined November 2010
Niue1017 Posts
November 28 2011 18:09 GMT
#3741
My MVP :-((
rysecake
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2632 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-28 18:11:10
November 28 2011 18:10 GMT
#3742
On November 29 2011 03:04 1Eris1 wrote:
Thoughts on MVP vs Leenock
Great series, there is no doubt in my mind now that Leenock is the best zerg in the world atm. Nestea has been playing ridiculously poor considering his normal play for some time now, and the only reason people were still calling him the best zerg was because it was unclear who among DRG/Leenock/Coca/etc were the best.
Leenock has been around since GSL Season 2, where he lost to Nada 2-1 in the ro16. The next season he came back and trounched Clide in one of the most hyped macro series ever. Even when he fell down to Code A later on, nobody could deny that he was there because of his terrible luck in oppenents instead of just bad play. Now leenock is back, and looking consistenly strong everywhere. The only place Nestea might have on him is ZvZ, but Leenock blows him out of the water in ZvT and ZvP, and not just in mechanics, but understanding. (MLG finals is a great example of this.)

Is Leenock the best player overall right now? No I do not think so. He has had two great runs so far, but he has dropped games, and not just to MVP. Also his games against MVP today were close, on ZERG FAVORED maps. I think that, in a bo7, MVP would still be the favorite. Not to mention MVP is considerably stronger in his mirror mu. As for vs P, it's hard to say. It has always been MVP's weakness, but he did trounch MC at MLG, so it's hard to say. Given time to prepare, I'm sure MVP's vP would be top notch.

So yeah, Leenock is definetely one of the top 2/top 3 players in the world right now. But I would urge everyone to wait on calling him the best in the world for at least a little while longer. Just remember, MVP's latest 3 tournament results are 2nd, 4th, and 3rd/4th, that is still amazingly sick. Lets see how Leenock does vs Jjaki before we decide anything.

Oh, and I guess the one good thing about Leenock losing is we can stop with this bonjwa crap. Can we please just leave that term for BW and come up with a different one for the current best player in SC2, like bongjiggidy or something?


You make it sound as if mvp's tvp is weak. It's not. Relative to his other 2 matchups, (73% tvt, 68% tvz) yes it looks weak. But a 61% tvp is by no means weak overall. At least when compared to leenocks 44% zvp.
The Notorious Winkles
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
November 28 2011 18:11 GMT
#3743
On November 29 2011 03:10 rysecake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 03:04 1Eris1 wrote:
Thoughts on MVP vs Leenock
Great series, there is no doubt in my mind now that Leenock is the best zerg in the world atm. Nestea has been playing ridiculously poor considering his normal play for some time now, and the only reason people were still calling him the best zerg was because it was unclear who among DRG/Leenock/Coca/etc were the best.
Leenock has been around since GSL Season 2, where he lost to Nada 2-1 in the ro16. The next season he came back and trounched Clide in one of the most hyped macro series ever. Even when he fell down to Code A later on, nobody could deny that he was there because of his terrible luck in oppenents instead of just bad play. Now leenock is back, and looking consistenly strong everywhere. The only place Nestea might have on him is ZvZ, but Leenock blows him out of the water in ZvT and ZvP, and not just in mechanics, but understanding. (MLG finals is a great example of this.)

Is Leenock the best player overall right now? No I do not think so. He has had two great runs so far, but he has dropped games, and not just to MVP. Also his games against MVP today were close, on ZERG FAVORED maps. I think that, in a bo7, MVP would still be the favorite. Not to mention MVP is considerably stronger in his mirror mu. As for vs P, it's hard to say. It has always been MVP's weakness, but he did trounch MC at MLG, so it's hard to say. Given time to prepare, I'm sure MVP's vP would be top notch.

So yeah, Leenock is definetely one of the top 2/top 3 players in the world right now. But I would urge everyone to wait on calling him the best in the world for at least a little while longer. Just remember, MVP's latest 3 tournament results are 2nd, 4th, and 3rd/4th, that is still amazingly sick. Lets see how Leenock does vs Jjaki before we decide anything.

Oh, and I guess the one good thing about Leenock losing is we can stop with this bonjwa crap. Can we please just leave that term for BW and come up with a different one for the current best player in SC2, like bongjiggidy or something?


You make it sound as if mvp's tvp is weak. It's not. Relative to his other 2 matchups, (73% tvt, 68% tvz) yes it looks weak. But a 61% tvp is by no means weak overall.



No where do I say it's weak? I said it was his weakness, I.E. his weakest matchup. If you read the whole thing you would notice I said it was still top notch, just not on par with his godly vsZ and T. =)
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
rysecake
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2632 Posts
November 28 2011 18:16 GMT
#3744
On November 29 2011 03:11 1Eris1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 03:10 rysecake wrote:
On November 29 2011 03:04 1Eris1 wrote:
Thoughts on MVP vs Leenock
Great series, there is no doubt in my mind now that Leenock is the best zerg in the world atm. Nestea has been playing ridiculously poor considering his normal play for some time now, and the only reason people were still calling him the best zerg was because it was unclear who among DRG/Leenock/Coca/etc were the best.
Leenock has been around since GSL Season 2, where he lost to Nada 2-1 in the ro16. The next season he came back and trounched Clide in one of the most hyped macro series ever. Even when he fell down to Code A later on, nobody could deny that he was there because of his terrible luck in oppenents instead of just bad play. Now leenock is back, and looking consistenly strong everywhere. The only place Nestea might have on him is ZvZ, but Leenock blows him out of the water in ZvT and ZvP, and not just in mechanics, but understanding. (MLG finals is a great example of this.)

Is Leenock the best player overall right now? No I do not think so. He has had two great runs so far, but he has dropped games, and not just to MVP. Also his games against MVP today were close, on ZERG FAVORED maps. I think that, in a bo7, MVP would still be the favorite. Not to mention MVP is considerably stronger in his mirror mu. As for vs P, it's hard to say. It has always been MVP's weakness, but he did trounch MC at MLG, so it's hard to say. Given time to prepare, I'm sure MVP's vP would be top notch.

So yeah, Leenock is definetely one of the top 2/top 3 players in the world right now. But I would urge everyone to wait on calling him the best in the world for at least a little while longer. Just remember, MVP's latest 3 tournament results are 2nd, 4th, and 3rd/4th, that is still amazingly sick. Lets see how Leenock does vs Jjaki before we decide anything.

Oh, and I guess the one good thing about Leenock losing is we can stop with this bonjwa crap. Can we please just leave that term for BW and come up with a different one for the current best player in SC2, like bongjiggidy or something?


You make it sound as if mvp's tvp is weak. It's not. Relative to his other 2 matchups, (73% tvt, 68% tvz) yes it looks weak. But a 61% tvp is by no means weak overall.



No where do I say it's weak? I said it was his weakness, I.E. his weakest matchup. If you read the whole thing you would notice I said it was still top notch, just not on par with his godly vsZ and T. =)


Misread sorry, I need a coffee
The Notorious Winkles
Share_The_Land
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada152 Posts
November 28 2011 18:28 GMT
#3745
Ahh this is quite saddening to me Leenock you are amazing and I love you, and hell I am a zerg so that's great and all, but man I wish this was MVP's 4th GSL title! Not saying Jjakji couldn't take him if he did beat Leenock but it would be his first finals, and we all know how disgusting MVP's TvT and finals experience is. Imagine how insane Leenock is gonna feel if he wins this GSL right on the heels of crushing MLG. Guy must be on cloud 9 Now to finish this infernal work day so I can get home and watch these gosu vods!
"Turns out he's a former Counterstrike pro and grabs his ak!" - Tasteless
SafeAsCheese
Profile Joined June 2011
United States4924 Posts
November 28 2011 18:30 GMT
#3746
On November 29 2011 02:50 hotwings wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 02:38 Chicane wrote:
On November 29 2011 02:16 Antithesis wrote:
I rarely watch GSL, but today I'd have loved to see the MVP vs. Leenock series. Holy crap, be 16, beat MVP.


Why do people keep mentioning his age over and over? It is quite impressive that he got into it at such a young age, but now that he has it isn't like he has some inherent mental disadvantage that makes him beating MVP while being 16 so amazing.


It's the same reason why people were impressed with older people doing well in sc2. As you grow older your priorities change alot. Older people are often more caught up in stuff like getting married, kids, and paying for thier mortgage. So when an older person is able to throw themselves whole heartedly into a single persuit and succeed it's atypical. The same applies for a 16 year old. At 16 I was worried about getting girls, and figuring out wtf I was going to do with the rest of my life. At 16 leenock is able to focus and be truly great at something. Finding that "something" often takes people a whole lifetime to achieve.


A lot of older player stop because their hands give out and their body cannot handle the stress of the practice load.
ImperialTea
Profile Joined June 2011
France187 Posts
November 28 2011 18:35 GMT
#3747
Lol just realized that the 3 championship curse seems to exist in SC2, no one has achieved more than 3 gsl championships :D Jjakji is a good player, looking at his path to the finals, but i feel like Leenock will 4-0 in pure gsl finals tradition...
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
November 28 2011 18:49 GMT
#3748
Frankly, I'm glad to see MVP not win it all. Leenock and the rising generation, along with the influx of truly a-class BW pros like ForGG, will be gradually replacing mediocre BWers like him and Nestea. It has already begun...We ain't seen nothin' yet.
RastaMonsta
Profile Joined October 2011
304 Posts
November 28 2011 18:51 GMT
#3749
damn no protoss and wow leenock owning MVP again?? Kids sucha boss lately
LiamTheZerg
Profile Joined March 2011
United States523 Posts
November 28 2011 18:53 GMT
#3750
Jjakji gonna winnnnnnnn
Jjakji | Sage | Seal | Shuttle | DongRaeGu | oGsTheSTC | Bomber | Curious | Oz
mrtomjones
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada4020 Posts
November 28 2011 18:55 GMT
#3751
On November 29 2011 02:48 s4life wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 02:28 SeaSwift wrote:
On November 29 2011 02:22 s4life wrote:
You see, Flash will lose against Janbi in the finals, a top player, Nestea will lose against Haypro, MVP against Leenok - who two weeks ago was not considered a fav to win anything. You will never see Flash or Jaedong losing against rookies or ladder heroes in tournament settings, and it's not BW elitism, it's just recognizing that SC2 is in its infancy.


Never is going a bit far. Jangbi had just been in an AWFUL slump for ages when he beat Flash in the OSL (and it also wasn't the finals, btw). I'm pretty sure he was considered about as far from Flash in terms of skill as Leenock was from MVP, if not more. Sure, Flash had his wrist problems, but then so does MVP.

If what you're trying to say is that nobody in SC2 is utterly dominating yet, you are correct. But that does not take a paragraph to write, and doesn't require so much (apparent) insinuation that BW > SC2. Perhaps that wasn't your intention, but tone is hard to get across on the Internet.


Well, Jangbi was a previous Starleague winner and quite capable of beating anyone at his best, hardly the unknown/average player with no previous accomplishments of any sort like Haypro or two-weeks-ago Leenok. My point is that SC2 due to being a newer game or an 'easier' game or a game in which luck plays a more important role than BW, makes it very hard for players to be consistent. Last DH winter tourney we saw DRG, Idra, Kas, Thorzain, Huk, Sase, Genius and so on lose against lesser players. That's something you don't see in BW tbh. This isn't BW elitism, but definitely it needs to be said to put in perspective how far along is SC2.

Ever think that the playing field is just overall closer? That some of these people are really good in one matchup(Elfi), that it is harder to go to an overseas lan and play well then to prepare for weeks for one matchup and win consistantly? That MVP pre-going to providence had won everything he set his eyes on for quite awhile? Also, for people who actually payed attention to sc2 and didnt dream about BW all day, Leenock has been someone with the potential to top anyone in zvt for awhile. Just because the path to the "top" is different in sc2 doesn't mean the kid is "terrible compared to all BW players!!!!!!1111!!".
CokeFTW
Profile Joined November 2011
United States39 Posts
November 28 2011 19:00 GMT
#3752
I'm sorry to have ever doubted you Leenock.
Thurokiir
Profile Joined June 2010
United States779 Posts
November 28 2011 19:02 GMT
#3753
Lol god speed to jjijaki - facing off against the zvt king leenock coming off a win from MVP/Prov.

Leenock first player to get two continent titles in a month?
Tahts halo dont worry
Thurokiir
Profile Joined June 2010
United States779 Posts
November 28 2011 19:03 GMT
#3754
On November 29 2011 03:35 ImperialTea wrote:
Lol just realized that the 3 championship curse seems to exist in SC2, no one has achieved more than 3 gsl championships :D Jjakji is a good player, looking at his path to the finals, but i feel like Leenock will 4-0 in pure gsl finals tradition...


I wish it was Oz there so badly, it'd generate a seriously amazing show.
Tahts halo dont worry
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-28 19:05:09
November 28 2011 19:04 GMT
#3755
On November 29 2011 04:02 Thurokiir wrote:
Lol god speed to jjijaki - facing off against the zvt king leenock coming off a win from MVP/Prov.

Leenock first player to get two continent titles in a month?

Jjakji's TvZ is pretty damn good. Even if it's a 4-0, I don't think it'll be a complete stomp.

Obviously, though, Leenock's ZvT is beastly. So.
SeaSwift
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Scotland4486 Posts
November 28 2011 19:05 GMT
#3756
On November 29 2011 04:03 Thurokiir wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 03:35 ImperialTea wrote:
Lol just realized that the 3 championship curse seems to exist in SC2, no one has achieved more than 3 gsl championships :D Jjakji is a good player, looking at his path to the finals, but i feel like Leenock will 4-0 in pure gsl finals tradition...


I wish it was Oz there so badly, it'd generate a seriously amazing show.


Considering how one-sided Oz vs Curious was in the Code A, I wouldn't get your hopes up. But we will never know, unfortunately. :'( I'm sad about how poorly Oz played today. Maybe he was hungover like Nestea
WaSa
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden749 Posts
November 28 2011 19:13 GMT
#3757
I just watched the Leenock v MVP series and MIND = BLOWN!
I knew Leenock was good but not MVP-level good. So exciting to see this kid win his first GSL
Tofugrinder
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria899 Posts
November 28 2011 19:22 GMT
#3758
I'm a bit sad that Oz lost but it's just amazing that leenock could make it

I'm really looking forward to the finals now!
jj33
Profile Joined April 2011
802 Posts
November 28 2011 19:25 GMT
#3759
On November 29 2011 03:49 0neder wrote:
Frankly, I'm glad to see MVP not win it all. Leenock and the rising generation, along with the influx of truly a-class BW pros like ForGG, will be gradually replacing mediocre BWers like him and Nestea. It has already begun...We ain't seen nothin' yet.



I'm glad Leenock won as well, because he's zerg (zerg player) but I like MVP too.

I agree we ain't seen nothing yet. Once the true talent comes to sc2 the mediocre guys will get phased out quite fast.

Leenock however, seems to be ultra talented so I'm going to assume he will be relevant for a long time.
Gladiator6
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden7024 Posts
November 28 2011 19:27 GMT
#3760
Leenockoctopussy for Code S championship!

It's so cool to see so talented players yet so young, kind of sC except a little bit more successful at this moment.
Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO
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