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[GSL] Nov Code S RO4 - Page 190

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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RageBot
Profile Joined November 2010
Israel1530 Posts
November 28 2011 21:25 GMT
#3781
Please win Leenock.
iSometric
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
2221 Posts
November 28 2011 21:28 GMT
#3782
MVPLeenock. Best series!
strava.com/athletes/zhaodynasty
urasyupi2
Profile Joined August 2011
United States810 Posts
November 28 2011 21:38 GMT
#3783
Whaaaaaaaa? MVP lost? Ah well, GOGO Leenock!
hemeh
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
November 28 2011 21:39 GMT
#3784
On November 29 2011 04:32 Share_The_Land wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 03:49 0neder wrote:
Frankly, I'm glad to see MVP not win it all. Leenock and the rising generation, along with the influx of truly a-class BW pros like ForGG, will be gradually replacing mediocre BWers like him and Nestea. It has already begun...We ain't seen nothin' yet.


You seem to forget that regardless of how good BW pros are/were they are still different games, and even once they start flooding in I can't see it being this insane domination of the current top SC2 players. Also how does being a mediocre BW player have anything to do with being bad in SC2 or eventually getting replaced? I know NaDa wasn't doing well insanely when he left BW but he has done WAAAAY more in BW than MVP did and well, I don't see any GSL titles for NaDa(as much as I love the guy) do I? Lets not forget also that MVP took a game or so off Flash when he was in literal godmode so I wouldn't write him off as such a slouch.

Either way, still upset MVP lost lol but hoping that Leenock will beat Jjakji



MVP was "technically" a more mechanically talented player than Nada in BW. Nada had a lot of his sucess when MVP would have been a middle schooler. (That does not mean MVP>Nada what so ever)

Think of how basketball players are a lot stronger and more strategic than players of old. Nada is like Wilt Chamberlain, an amazingly talented and the dominant player of his time, but the game has changed a ton since he played, and it's pretty visible that he would have had a different sucess level had he played later.

Obviously, Nada is the better overall BW player than MVP, he revolutionzed the game, set tons of records, but eventually he dropped off like all the greats do. By the time MVP came on the scene, the game was much more developed and refined and so he was able to use that to his advantage. It's highly unlikely that MVP would have had Nada's level of sucess had he played in Nada's time, however it is impossible to honestly know.
It's hard to compare players of anything from different eras. Who's to say how Babe Ruth would have done in a era where pitchers used different pitches and teams used different strategies?

And to be fair to Nada, the dude is in college , and he's still incredibly consistent.
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
s4life
Profile Joined March 2007
Peru1519 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-28 22:05:25
November 28 2011 21:56 GMT
#3785
On November 29 2011 04:47 Flonomenalz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 02:22 s4life wrote:
On November 29 2011 01:40 Flonomenalz wrote:
On November 29 2011 00:43 s4life wrote:
On November 28 2011 22:50 Zalithian wrote:
This is always how things go. Whoever wins recently = THE BEST EVER. Same with every player really. The hype train just cannot be stopped. Stephano doing well on ladder? OMG STEPHANO IS THE BEST FOREIGNER OF ALL TIME. Hero wins his first tournament ever? OMG HE IS THE BEST PROTOSS IN THE WORLD. Naniwa won like 5 matches at Providence? BEST TOSS IN THE WORLD HANDS DOWN.

It's really silly. There's no denying all those players are really good, but just because someone does really well at something recently certainly does not make them the best.


Yup, the underlying points being: a) Luck plays a huge role in SC2, much more so than BW. b) Compared to BW pros, pretty much every SC2 player -- except maybe for MVP -- sucks big time as it only takes a few weeks for his style to be 'found out'. c) There is no best in the world in SC2 ala Flash, Jaedong or Bisu -- maybe except for MVP -- there are several players at the top, who can take off games of each other at any point, tournaments and stakes level.

All I got from your post was BW elitism, lmao.

I'm pretty sure Nestea and MVP have been considered the best in the world in SC2 for more than "a few weeks". You act like Flash, Jaedong and Bisu never lose games and win every title. There are plenty of top players in BW that can take games off of each other at any point in any tournament.


You see, Flash will lose against Janbi in the finals, a top player, Nestea will lose against Haypro, MVP against Leenok - who two weeks ago was not considered a fav to win anything. You will never see Flash or Jaedong losing against rookies or ladder heroes or unknown/average players in tournament settings, and it's not BW elitism, it's just recognizing that SC2 is in its infancy.

Nestea lost against Haypro after an entire weekend of playing a ton of games from the Open Bracket, God forbid he gets tired, or jetlagged, or even outplayed once out of X amount of ZvZs. MVP lost against a very good Leenock who is now a favorite to win Code S. So trying to insinuate that he's not good is pretty stupid.

You're saying the EXACT same things people used to say in BW. Remember Flash vs Bisu Daum OSL? Of course you do, because 99% of the world expected Bisu to roll Flash. Then Flash, who, using your own words about Leenock, "wasn't a favorite to win anything" cheesed out Bisu, to much hate from fans. But he beat him.

If you KNOW SC2 is in it's infancy, why are you bringing up such criticisms?



Sure, he got tired and Hypro isn't really a scrub. The larger point still stands though. So many 'upsets' in the last few tournaments cannot be explained just because the players were tired. Also, it would be stupid of me to criticize SC2 for being new -- I don't think was doing that, but rather I was trying to explain why the flavor-of-the-month player syndrome has been, as of late, the most dominant topic in the forums and why it's stupid to proclaim such players as the best -- like they are doing with Leenok right now.. kid's got talent, but he will more than likely start losing left and right in the next few weeks, as did FruitDealer, IntoTheRainbow, MC, MarineKing, Jinro, Inca, Stephano, Idra, Thorzain, Naniwa and others.. in the lapse of ONE year. Read the original post.
CeriseCherries
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
6170 Posts
November 28 2011 22:01 GMT
#3786
Wow Leenock is ON FIRE... LEENOCKING YOU OUT
Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
forgottendreams
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1771 Posts
November 28 2011 22:06 GMT
#3787
On November 29 2011 05:27 NipponBanzai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 05:18 l3ird wrote:
jakji.. if he wins... well.


Haha the fan rage will reach levels that we haven't seen in a long time.


I've been out of the scene sort of, but I kind of skipped out right when jjakji made it to code S.

Why would fan rage be high? What is there to hate about this young hyper aggressive padawan who blessed us with awesome Korean Weekly games?
Juvant
Profile Joined April 2011
United States723 Posts
November 28 2011 22:16 GMT
#3788
On November 29 2011 07:06 forgottendreams wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 05:27 NipponBanzai wrote:
On November 29 2011 05:18 l3ird wrote:
jakji.. if he wins... well.


Haha the fan rage will reach levels that we haven't seen in a long time.


I've been out of the scene sort of, but I kind of skipped out right when jjakji made it to code S.

Why would fan rage be high? What is there to hate about this young hyper aggressive padawan who blessed us with awesome Korean Weekly games?



I always thought jjakji had been quietly considered one of the best players in the world as of late. Perhaps it's because a Toss is out? Not sure.
S_SienZ
Profile Joined September 2011
1878 Posts
November 28 2011 22:21 GMT
#3789
jjakji imo has a better chance against Leenock than MVP. Leenock's ZvT is good, but I bet any Terran would take that over a TvT against MVP.
Lavi
Profile Joined November 2011
Bangladesh793 Posts
November 28 2011 22:24 GMT
#3790
I'm really sad MVP got knocked out...Leenock is great but he still has noticeable flaws such as not that great infestor micro, etc., basically not as complete of a player as MVP ( Me QQ'ing)

Anyways Leenock to win this GSL. Jjakji's TvZ strength I've noticed to be his brute force pushes and quick reinforcements, which is not that effective on the new large maps. Leenock already beat Jjakji rather convincingly somewhat recently. It's also bo7 so I can't see any unique gimmicky builds Jjakji doing winning more than a couple games for him.
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
November 28 2011 22:31 GMT
#3791
Leenock saving us from GomTvT. Not a big fan, but grateful nonetheless
SeaSwift
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Scotland4486 Posts
November 28 2011 22:34 GMT
#3792
On November 29 2011 07:16 Juvant wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 07:06 forgottendreams wrote:
On November 29 2011 05:27 NipponBanzai wrote:
On November 29 2011 05:18 l3ird wrote:
jakji.. if he wins... well.


Haha the fan rage will reach levels that we haven't seen in a long time.


I've been out of the scene sort of, but I kind of skipped out right when jjakji made it to code S.

Why would fan rage be high? What is there to hate about this young hyper aggressive padawan who blessed us with awesome Korean Weekly games?



I always thought jjakji had been quietly considered one of the best players in the world as of late. Perhaps it's because a Toss is out? Not sure.


Because we just had the most amazing ZvT of all time, between the two highest level players of all time, and Leenock has a massive fanbase atm. Jjakji has very few fans, so if J beats Leenock, who just beat the "best" Terran in the world, there will be massive nerdrage.
MonkSEA
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia1227 Posts
November 28 2011 22:34 GMT
#3793
On November 29 2011 06:39 1Eris1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 04:32 Share_The_Land wrote:
On November 29 2011 03:49 0neder wrote:
Frankly, I'm glad to see MVP not win it all. Leenock and the rising generation, along with the influx of truly a-class BW pros like ForGG, will be gradually replacing mediocre BWers like him and Nestea. It has already begun...We ain't seen nothin' yet.


You seem to forget that regardless of how good BW pros are/were they are still different games, and even once they start flooding in I can't see it being this insane domination of the current top SC2 players. Also how does being a mediocre BW player have anything to do with being bad in SC2 or eventually getting replaced? I know NaDa wasn't doing well insanely when he left BW but he has done WAAAAY more in BW than MVP did and well, I don't see any GSL titles for NaDa(as much as I love the guy) do I? Lets not forget also that MVP took a game or so off Flash when he was in literal godmode so I wouldn't write him off as such a slouch.

Either way, still upset MVP lost lol but hoping that Leenock will beat Jjakji



MVP was "technically" a more mechanically talented player than Nada in BW. Nada had a lot of his sucess when MVP would have been a middle schooler. (That does not mean MVP>Nada what so ever)

Think of how basketball players are a lot stronger and more strategic than players of old. Nada is like Wilt Chamberlain, an amazingly talented and the dominant player of his time, but the game has changed a ton since he played, and it's pretty visible that he would have had a different sucess level had he played later.

Obviously, Nada is the better overall BW player than MVP, he revolutionzed the game, set tons of records, but eventually he dropped off like all the greats do. By the time MVP came on the scene, the game was much more developed and refined and so he was able to use that to his advantage. It's highly unlikely that MVP would have had Nada's level of sucess had he played in Nada's time, however it is impossible to honestly know.
It's hard to compare players of anything from different eras. Who's to say how Babe Ruth would have done in a era where pitchers used different pitches and teams used different strategies?

And to be fair to Nada, the dude is in college , and he's still incredibly consistent.


Whenever someone uses this stupid reason why NaDa isn't doing well, I tell them to look at Polt.
http://www.youtube.com/user/sirmonkeh Zerg Live Casts and Commentary!
SeaSwift
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Scotland4486 Posts
November 28 2011 22:37 GMT
#3794
Nada isn't in college any more, he dropped out to play SC2 full time IIRC.
forgottendreams
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1771 Posts
November 28 2011 22:42 GMT
#3795
On November 29 2011 07:34 SeaSwift wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 07:16 Juvant wrote:
On November 29 2011 07:06 forgottendreams wrote:
On November 29 2011 05:27 NipponBanzai wrote:
On November 29 2011 05:18 l3ird wrote:
jakji.. if he wins... well.


Haha the fan rage will reach levels that we haven't seen in a long time.


I've been out of the scene sort of, but I kind of skipped out right when jjakji made it to code S.

Why would fan rage be high? What is there to hate about this young hyper aggressive padawan who blessed us with awesome Korean Weekly games?



I always thought jjakji had been quietly considered one of the best players in the world as of late. Perhaps it's because a Toss is out? Not sure.


Because we just had the most amazing ZvT of all time, between the two highest level players of all time, and Leenock has a massive fanbase atm. Jjakji has very few fans, so if J beats Leenock, who just beat the "best" Terran in the world, there will be massive nerdrage.


Well that's too bad, I guess I've always been a fanboy of hyper aggressive players like jjakji/nani/puzzle/puma but they often are the target of alot of hate.

I guess I'm going against the grain and saying JJAKJI HWAITING!!!
ayeZuN
Profile Joined June 2011
147 Posts
November 28 2011 22:43 GMT
#3796
On November 29 2011 07:34 MonkSEA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 06:39 1Eris1 wrote:
On November 29 2011 04:32 Share_The_Land wrote:
On November 29 2011 03:49 0neder wrote:
Frankly, I'm glad to see MVP not win it all. Leenock and the rising generation, along with the influx of truly a-class BW pros like ForGG, will be gradually replacing mediocre BWers like him and Nestea. It has already begun...We ain't seen nothin' yet.


You seem to forget that regardless of how good BW pros are/were they are still different games, and even once they start flooding in I can't see it being this insane domination of the current top SC2 players. Also how does being a mediocre BW player have anything to do with being bad in SC2 or eventually getting replaced? I know NaDa wasn't doing well insanely when he left BW but he has done WAAAAY more in BW than MVP did and well, I don't see any GSL titles for NaDa(as much as I love the guy) do I? Lets not forget also that MVP took a game or so off Flash when he was in literal godmode so I wouldn't write him off as such a slouch.

Either way, still upset MVP lost lol but hoping that Leenock will beat Jjakji



MVP was "technically" a more mechanically talented player than Nada in BW. Nada had a lot of his sucess when MVP would have been a middle schooler. (That does not mean MVP>Nada what so ever)

Think of how basketball players are a lot stronger and more strategic than players of old. Nada is like Wilt Chamberlain, an amazingly talented and the dominant player of his time, but the game has changed a ton since he played, and it's pretty visible that he would have had a different sucess level had he played later.

Obviously, Nada is the better overall BW player than MVP, he revolutionzed the game, set tons of records, but eventually he dropped off like all the greats do. By the time MVP came on the scene, the game was much more developed and refined and so he was able to use that to his advantage. It's highly unlikely that MVP would have had Nada's level of sucess had he played in Nada's time, however it is impossible to honestly know.
It's hard to compare players of anything from different eras. Who's to say how Babe Ruth would have done in a era where pitchers used different pitches and teams used different strategies?

And to be fair to Nada, the dude is in college , and he's still incredibly consistent.


Whenever someone uses this stupid reason why NaDa isn't doing well, I tell them to look at Polt.


Didnt Polt win the super tournament when he was on summer break and away from his university responsibilities? I think he has been performing subpar since then too.
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-28 22:48:06
November 28 2011 22:44 GMT
#3797
@MonkSEA

That is a ridiculous response. Polt is in the exact same space as Nada atm (Ro32 Code A), and has been slumping quite a bit since the super tournament. (Also, he won the Super Tournament WHEN HE WAS IN A TEAM HOUSE.)
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
November 28 2011 22:47 GMT
#3798
Well, that supply lower pretty much gave leenock a free win which is a disappointing ending to the series, but still sick play, as always GSL shows the best games in one of their semi-finals. Hoping jjakji can at least put up some sort of a fight, for GSL's sake
SooYoung-Noona!
OMGKEI
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia590 Posts
November 28 2011 22:47 GMT
#3799
Wow it could have been a Oz vs Leenock finals...a FXO finals would have been so much better
ppshchik
Profile Joined September 2010
United States862 Posts
November 28 2011 22:49 GMT
#3800
3-2 semi-finals in one bracket+3-2 semi finals in another bracket = 4-0 finals

Leenock 4-0 jjakji, keeping the GSL traditional finals.
Legends never die... they end up working in McDonalds.
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