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Thread unlocked. Please THINK before you post, and rest assured that ANY infringement of the rules will be dealt with severely.
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Thanks!
- riptide |
On November 20 2011 15:27 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 15:18 pdd wrote:Stuff after that's been discussed ad nauseum, but what about the part where Nani watched NesTea's opener? Isn't that like blatantly cheating? How is THAT not the scandal? While it's immoral and perhaps a bit unfair, there's no rule saying that you can't watch replays between games in MLG. Nestea could have easily done the same had he known there was no such rule. Rules should have been made known to all parties before the tournament began. If Nestea was not informed, that is MLG's fault.
But that's wrong. It's Nesteas obligation to inform himself about the set of rules that are being used by the tournament.
If he doesn't, it's his fault, not the tournaments.
We're not 5 years old where everything has to be spoon-fed to us. That's the most logical thing to do before you enter a tournament.
Should MLG go through all 250 participants and explain them their set of rules? That's laughable.
I'm 100% sure you can read the rules somewhere, that is, if you make the effort.
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On November 20 2011 15:37 Elefanto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 15:27 Azarkon wrote:On November 20 2011 15:18 pdd wrote:Stuff after that's been discussed ad nauseum, but what about the part where Nani watched NesTea's opener? Isn't that like blatantly cheating? How is THAT not the scandal? While it's immoral and perhaps a bit unfair, there's no rule saying that you can't watch replays between games in MLG. Nestea could have easily done the same had he known there was no such rule. Rules should have been made known to all parties before the tournament began. If Nestea was not informed, that is MLG's fault. But that's wrong. It's Nesteas obligation to inform himself about the set of rules that are being used by the tournament. If he doesn't, it's his fault, not the tournaments. We're not 5 years old where everything has to be spoon-fed to us. That's the most logical thing to do before you enter a tournament. Should MLG go through all 250 participants and explain them their set of rules? That's laughable. I'm 100% sure you can read the rules somewhere, that is, if you make the effort.
Yes, that's true, but then naniwa also should have been aware of the maps that were going to be used and a restart should never have been issued on different positions to begin with.
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On November 20 2011 15:27 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 15:18 pdd wrote:Stuff after that's been discussed ad nauseum, but what about the part where Nani watched NesTea's opener? Isn't that like blatantly cheating? How is THAT not the scandal? While it's immoral and perhaps a bit unfair, there's no rule saying that you can't watch replays between games in MLG. Nestea could have easily done the same had he known there was no such rule. Rules should have been made known to all parties before the tournament began. If Nestea was not informed, that is MLG's fault.
It would only be the fault of MLG if they didn't have a rule listing for players to read to begin with.
It would be the fault of Nestea if he decided not to read them before participating in the tournament.
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But is it a common rule to watch replay of paused games which are forced to be re-gamed.. on the same map?
My first time seeing someone do such a thing : / plus language barrier, nestea doesn't exactly speak english.
At least let nestea know his opening was scouted while he was using the restroom.
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I kinda want to say something about people being disappointed with the crowd in Providence, because a lot of people seem to be disappointed with the level of energy and stuff coming through on the stream.
I went to MLG today for the second half of the day (4:30 EST - the end) and I thought there was a lot of energy for most of the night up until the end when a good amount of people started leaving. For example, the crowd really went crazy for MCs murloc suit ceremony after his win vs MVP, and the crowd went insane when Hero took out Ret on shattered temple with his huge vortex/semi archon toilet.
However, there were points in the tournament when the crowd wasn't very responsive and I think that had to do with the set up of the venue mostly. A lot of people had to stand in spots where it was either hard to see the screen, hard to hear the casters, or both. Even sitting in the seats right in front of the main stage it was sometimes hard to hear the casters talking over the Halo and Black Ops casters/gunfire (and I was in the second row!). Also, there was a ton of people around the featured (but non-streamed) stations a lot of the time because there were such good games going on there all the time. I saw players like MKP playing a lot of games at the featured station, and of course players like him are going to draw quite a crowd no matter where he plays.
So overall I wasn't disappointed in the crowd very much, but like I said I haven't been to any other MLGs so maybe it was a shitty crowd in comparison lol. As someone who attended though, it felt like the energy was there for me. Even my girlfriend (who hardly watches any SC2) got excited and cheered for awesome moments like the ones I mentioned earlier.
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On November 20 2011 15:37 Elefanto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 15:27 Azarkon wrote:On November 20 2011 15:18 pdd wrote:Stuff after that's been discussed ad nauseum, but what about the part where Nani watched NesTea's opener? Isn't that like blatantly cheating? How is THAT not the scandal? While it's immoral and perhaps a bit unfair, there's no rule saying that you can't watch replays between games in MLG. Nestea could have easily done the same had he known there was no such rule. Rules should have been made known to all parties before the tournament began. If Nestea was not informed, that is MLG's fault. But that's wrong. It's Nesteas obligation to inform himself about the set of rules that are being used by the tournament. If he doesn't, it's his fault, not the tournaments. We're not 5 years old where everything has to be spoon-fed to us. That's the most logical thing to do before you enter a tournament. Should MLG go through all 250 participants and explain them their set of rules? That's laughable. I'm 100% sure you can read the rules somewhere, that is, if you make the effort.
Informed doesn't necessarily mean spoon-fed. I simply meant that he should've been given a listing of the rules in a manner that he can understand. But you're right, players have a responsibility to make the effort to know the rules of a tournament before they join.
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As long as he didn't break a rule he did nothing wrong and you all are making an issue out of nothing.
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On November 20 2011 15:43 Egyptian_Head wrote:
As long as he didn't break a rule he did nothing wrong and you all are making an issue out of nothing.
Yes and no.
In this instance it's fair if there's no rule against it. Things like this usually either cause rule changes or cause rules to be better clarified in future events, however.
It's at the very least worth noting.
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On November 20 2011 15:06 bounca wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 15:05 Femari wrote:On November 20 2011 15:03 pdd wrote:On November 20 2011 15:02 Femari wrote:On November 20 2011 14:57 pdd wrote:On November 20 2011 14:53 Femari wrote:On November 20 2011 14:48 Heavenly wrote:Is that a big deal? I mean, build orders are revealed in the post game screen. I'm also 95% sure the casters stated they did not restart the game and they had just unpaused? They had to restart the game, the second game was the one that was paused. Wait, I didn't really watch the game live and only skimmed through the VODs, what actually happened? Because it seemed like the game where Naniwa won they were close positions again and it was a bit strange how after all his attempts to delay the game to change the map they replay it on the same close spawn map? Basically they accidently started the game when it went to break, then they had to stop it. During the wait they had to restart the game and Naniwa watched the replay to see what Nestea was doing (apparently) during said wait. That's it. Ah, so the 2nd game which Naniwa won was just unpaused after Naniwa made a big deal about the spawn location? Yeah. The last game in the series was the second 3rd game essentially cause the first one was going on during a commercial break and they stopped it. That's when he paused it. He did nothing illegal, maybe immoral, but he wasn't breaking any rules at all. did you read the rules? i know in GSL u cant watch the replay if it has to be restarted or have anyone in ur booth im curious how MLG handles it in their rules
MLG allows you to, while I know GSL and IPL do not. I think it's a bad rule but I know they let you.
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On November 20 2011 15:40 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 15:37 Elefanto wrote:On November 20 2011 15:27 Azarkon wrote:On November 20 2011 15:18 pdd wrote:Stuff after that's been discussed ad nauseum, but what about the part where Nani watched NesTea's opener? Isn't that like blatantly cheating? How is THAT not the scandal? While it's immoral and perhaps a bit unfair, there's no rule saying that you can't watch replays between games in MLG. Nestea could have easily done the same had he known there was no such rule. Rules should have been made known to all parties before the tournament began. If Nestea was not informed, that is MLG's fault. But that's wrong. It's Nesteas obligation to inform himself about the set of rules that are being used by the tournament. If he doesn't, it's his fault, not the tournaments. We're not 5 years old where everything has to be spoon-fed to us. That's the most logical thing to do before you enter a tournament. Should MLG go through all 250 participants and explain them their set of rules? That's laughable. I'm 100% sure you can read the rules somewhere, that is, if you make the effort. Yes, that's true, but then naniwa also should have been aware of the maps that were going to be used and a restart should never have been issued on different positions to begin with.
I agree with you on this point, but at least part of the problem is the fact that different versions of certain maps with the same name even exist and/or MLG doesn't have particular versions of each map just for each tournament... Would it be that hard to upload MLGprov Shakuras Plateau on day one of the tourney just to avoid this sort of confusion?
Still, there is no way a regame should've been issued. I honestly don't mind that he paused the game to ask, but they should have said, no, this is correct, play on...
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i'd like to point out just one thing: for all the people who are justifying Naniwa for watching that replay by saying Nestea could have done the same - I am at the event and as soon as Nestea got in his booth, they told him to play. I don't think he was even informed that Naniwa watched the replay for that opener.
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People are just being completely ridiculous trying to discredit Naniwa. He didn't do anything against the rules, it's something that happens at MLG all the time. He beat Nestea and it had nothing to do with the replay.
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but does MLG specifically say you can watch replay on restarted maps? Its much different then watching a replay of a completed map, and moving on to a new map for the next set... -_-
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On November 20 2011 15:47 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 15:06 bounca wrote:On November 20 2011 15:05 Femari wrote:On November 20 2011 15:03 pdd wrote:On November 20 2011 15:02 Femari wrote:On November 20 2011 14:57 pdd wrote:On November 20 2011 14:53 Femari wrote:On November 20 2011 14:48 Heavenly wrote:Is that a big deal? I mean, build orders are revealed in the post game screen. I'm also 95% sure the casters stated they did not restart the game and they had just unpaused? They had to restart the game, the second game was the one that was paused. Wait, I didn't really watch the game live and only skimmed through the VODs, what actually happened? Because it seemed like the game where Naniwa won they were close positions again and it was a bit strange how after all his attempts to delay the game to change the map they replay it on the same close spawn map? Basically they accidently started the game when it went to break, then they had to stop it. During the wait they had to restart the game and Naniwa watched the replay to see what Nestea was doing (apparently) during said wait. That's it. Ah, so the 2nd game which Naniwa won was just unpaused after Naniwa made a big deal about the spawn location? Yeah. The last game in the series was the second 3rd game essentially cause the first one was going on during a commercial break and they stopped it. That's when he paused it. He did nothing illegal, maybe immoral, but he wasn't breaking any rules at all. did you read the rules? i know in GSL u cant watch the replay if it has to be restarted or have anyone in ur booth im curious how MLG handles it in their rules MLG allows you to, while I know GSL and IPL do not. I think it's a bad rule but I know they let you.
I'm attending the tourney, they clearly allow you to because I have seen a large number of players do so between matches. I feel they should change the rule, but for now it is what it is.
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On November 20 2011 15:49 Heavenly wrote:
People are just being completely ridiculous trying to discredit Naniwa. He didn't do anything against the rules, it's something that happens at MLG all the time. He beat Nestea and it had nothing to do with the replay.
Actually people watch replays of completed matches all the time. I have never heard of someone watching a replay of a restarted match at MLG before.
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On November 20 2011 15:47 Plethora wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 15:40 Itsmedudeman wrote:On November 20 2011 15:37 Elefanto wrote:On November 20 2011 15:27 Azarkon wrote:On November 20 2011 15:18 pdd wrote:Stuff after that's been discussed ad nauseum, but what about the part where Nani watched NesTea's opener? Isn't that like blatantly cheating? How is THAT not the scandal? While it's immoral and perhaps a bit unfair, there's no rule saying that you can't watch replays between games in MLG. Nestea could have easily done the same had he known there was no such rule. Rules should have been made known to all parties before the tournament began. If Nestea was not informed, that is MLG's fault. But that's wrong. It's Nesteas obligation to inform himself about the set of rules that are being used by the tournament. If he doesn't, it's his fault, not the tournaments. We're not 5 years old where everything has to be spoon-fed to us. That's the most logical thing to do before you enter a tournament. Should MLG go through all 250 participants and explain them their set of rules? That's laughable. I'm 100% sure you can read the rules somewhere, that is, if you make the effort. Yes, that's true, but then naniwa also should have been aware of the maps that were going to be used and a restart should never have been issued on different positions to begin with. I agree with you on this point, but at least part of the problem is the fact that different versions of certain maps with the same name even exist and/or MLG doesn't have particular versions of each map just for each tournament... Would it be that hard to upload MLGprov Shakuras Plateau on day one of the tourney just to avoid this sort of confusion? Still, there is no way a regame should've been issued. I honestly don't mind that he paused the game to ask, but they should have said, no, this is correct, play on...
There was no regame for a wrong map choice so idk what you're trying to say.
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DRAMA OVERWHELMING in this thread, alas. Looking forward to an epic Sunday.
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Yeah I think it's within Nestea's rights to know that naniwa was writing down the build he just did (and the match for the marbles was on the same map.. problem). I mean, I understand players should be informed, but it is not up to Nestea to know that his opponent is allowed to spy on his build during a re-host. Really.
The bad morality behind it, IMO, is the fact that Naniwa wouldn't have found that re-play useful if Nestea knew it had been exposed. I hope somebody clarifies this situation
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On November 20 2011 15:49 Heavenly wrote:
People are just being completely ridiculous trying to discredit Naniwa. He didn't do anything against the rules, it's something that happens at MLG all the time. He beat Nestea and it had nothing to do with the replay.
Really..? Players can pause for whatever reason (however legitimate) and watch the replays up to that point before resuming the game, and that's what has happened in previous MLGs every time someone paused a game?
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And they gave naniwa all the time in the world... but after nestea came back from restroom telling him to play right away, why not ask him if he wants time to review the replay and think over as well?
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EPT
