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On November 14 2011 07:39 norlock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2011 07:18 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 14 2011 07:14 K3Nyy wrote:On November 14 2011 07:11 hitpoint wrote:
So the entire league ended with two mass hellion cheeses and one xel'naga auto win, but people are complaining about some mild bm instead... It's not cheese. In a sense, Idra "cheesed" more than Kas, though his "cheese" was blindly build drones without scouting. Kas went 2fact reactor hellions which isn't cheese in the slightest. YES IT IS You have to go 2fact reactor blind and pray that your opponent doesn't get a random lucky OL scout in to see the second fact. If you don't do enough damage you are behind and any decent Zerg midgame will just crush you, as you will be so hard pressed to take a third. Idra played greedy like always, and Kas won with simple hellion builds. If Idra had said GG and left, this thread wouldn't even be going nuts. Kas played average in every single game, but Terran cheese is best cheese. Well considering that Idra doesn't play safe and doesn't open most of the times with a roach warren, makes your arguement invalid. He eco cheeses. They both didn't play safe in any way, and Kas was just able to punish it. Now show some manner and congratulate Empire and Kas. Idra fanboys complain just as much as a protos wins as that a Terran wins, it is sickening.
Don't bring Protoss in here. They qq b/c they're actually losing left and right. IdrA fanboys and him bm'ed the hell outta everyone even when Zerg and IdrA winning right and left. Totally different.
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On November 14 2011 08:27 tuho12345 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2011 07:39 norlock wrote:On November 14 2011 07:18 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 14 2011 07:14 K3Nyy wrote:On November 14 2011 07:11 hitpoint wrote:
So the entire league ended with two mass hellion cheeses and one xel'naga auto win, but people are complaining about some mild bm instead... It's not cheese. In a sense, Idra "cheesed" more than Kas, though his "cheese" was blindly build drones without scouting. Kas went 2fact reactor hellions which isn't cheese in the slightest. YES IT IS You have to go 2fact reactor blind and pray that your opponent doesn't get a random lucky OL scout in to see the second fact. If you don't do enough damage you are behind and any decent Zerg midgame will just crush you, as you will be so hard pressed to take a third. Idra played greedy like always, and Kas won with simple hellion builds. If Idra had said GG and left, this thread wouldn't even be going nuts. Kas played average in every single game, but Terran cheese is best cheese. Well considering that Idra doesn't play safe and doesn't open most of the times with a roach warren, makes your arguement invalid. He eco cheeses. They both didn't play safe in any way, and Kas was just able to punish it. Now show some manner and congratulate Empire and Kas. Idra fanboys complain just as much as a protos wins as that a Terran wins, it is sickening. Don't bring Protoss in here. They qq b/c they're actually losing left and right. IdrA fanboys and him bm'ed the hell outta everyone even when Zerg and IdrA winning right and left. Totally different.
Umm... Huk didn't just win MLG, did he? With MC in 2nd?
Look at Code A Tosses right now.... lmao.
This isn't 1 month ago.
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On November 14 2011 08:33 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2011 08:27 tuho12345 wrote:On November 14 2011 07:39 norlock wrote:On November 14 2011 07:18 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 14 2011 07:14 K3Nyy wrote:On November 14 2011 07:11 hitpoint wrote:
So the entire league ended with two mass hellion cheeses and one xel'naga auto win, but people are complaining about some mild bm instead... It's not cheese. In a sense, Idra "cheesed" more than Kas, though his "cheese" was blindly build drones without scouting. Kas went 2fact reactor hellions which isn't cheese in the slightest. YES IT IS You have to go 2fact reactor blind and pray that your opponent doesn't get a random lucky OL scout in to see the second fact. If you don't do enough damage you are behind and any decent Zerg midgame will just crush you, as you will be so hard pressed to take a third. Idra played greedy like always, and Kas won with simple hellion builds. If Idra had said GG and left, this thread wouldn't even be going nuts. Kas played average in every single game, but Terran cheese is best cheese. Well considering that Idra doesn't play safe and doesn't open most of the times with a roach warren, makes your arguement invalid. He eco cheeses. They both didn't play safe in any way, and Kas was just able to punish it. Now show some manner and congratulate Empire and Kas. Idra fanboys complain just as much as a protos wins as that a Terran wins, it is sickening. Don't bring Protoss in here. They qq b/c they're actually losing left and right. IdrA fanboys and him bm'ed the hell outta everyone even when Zerg and IdrA winning right and left. Totally different. Umm... Huk didn't just win MLG, did he? With MC in 2nd? Look at Code A Tosses right now.... lmao. This isn't 1 month ago.
Really don't wanna argue with you about this to off topic. Just look at the bigger picture and figure yourself.
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Congratulations to Team Empire. They are such a strong team. Let us not forget how close it was that they would not make it through to the playoffs. It was decided in the absolute last game in the last round with the standing 1-1 in the ace between Kas and Select.
After that 3-2 Mouz - the team that kicked their asses in the group and recently in the EG Master's Cup - to winning the finals. Not bad. :D
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idra is a newb who doesn't know how to counter mass hellions
he lost like so many times to this same old strat and still doesn't know that he needs to make more spines or roaches
User was temp banned for this post.
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Beating mouz and EG is amazing. Even more amusing it was the team that Xeris called bad a few months ago that did it.
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Russian Federation899 Posts
On November 14 2011 08:07 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2011 07:55 Zorgaz wrote:On November 14 2011 07:39 norlock wrote:On November 14 2011 07:18 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 14 2011 07:14 K3Nyy wrote:On November 14 2011 07:11 hitpoint wrote:
So the entire league ended with two mass hellion cheeses and one xel'naga auto win, but people are complaining about some mild bm instead... It's not cheese. In a sense, Idra "cheesed" more than Kas, though his "cheese" was blindly build drones without scouting. Kas went 2fact reactor hellions which isn't cheese in the slightest. YES IT IS You have to go 2fact reactor blind and pray that your opponent doesn't get a random lucky OL scout in to see the second fact. If you don't do enough damage you are behind and any decent Zerg midgame will just crush you, as you will be so hard pressed to take a third. Idra played greedy like always, and Kas won with simple hellion builds. If Idra had said GG and left, this thread wouldn't even be going nuts. Kas played average in every single game, but Terran cheese is best cheese. Well considering that Idra doesn't play safe and doesn't open most of the times with a roach warren, makes your arguement invalid. He eco cheeses. They both didn't play safe in any way, and Kas was just able to punish it. Now show some manner and congratulate Empire and Kas. Idra fanboys complain just as much as a protos wins as that a Terran wins, it is sickening. Getting 2 reactor facts early isn't cheesy in the slightest. It doesn't put you behind in any way even if you don't do enough damage . If you don't suicide the hellions in just for the chance of some drone kills, you can deny creep tumors while keeping map control with the hellions, and then when you switch over to marine/tanks production the hellions are a great addition scouting ahead, protecting flanks and killing lings. Yes It Is You cannot tech fast enough to stop midgame Zerg tech if all your hellions do is deny creep tumors. You are forced to go for some sort of delayed mech or marine tank hellion 2 base all in. PLEASE show me 1 replay that exists of a Terran opening 2 fact hellion and NOT doing any damage, then winning in the mid game. Please.
it is fine as long as u transition into mech.
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On November 14 2011 08:58 Resilient wrote:
Beating mouz and EG is amazing. Even more amusing it was the team that Xeris called bad a few months ago that did it.
The fact that Empire beat Fnatic in this tourney and twice in the most recent Evil Geniuses Master's Cup just makes it a bit more sweeter.  + Show Spoiler +some - not so serious - team banter is just healthy for the sport 
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On November 14 2011 09:15 razy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2011 08:07 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 14 2011 07:55 Zorgaz wrote:On November 14 2011 07:39 norlock wrote:On November 14 2011 07:18 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 14 2011 07:14 K3Nyy wrote:On November 14 2011 07:11 hitpoint wrote:
So the entire league ended with two mass hellion cheeses and one xel'naga auto win, but people are complaining about some mild bm instead... It's not cheese. In a sense, Idra "cheesed" more than Kas, though his "cheese" was blindly build drones without scouting. Kas went 2fact reactor hellions which isn't cheese in the slightest. YES IT IS You have to go 2fact reactor blind and pray that your opponent doesn't get a random lucky OL scout in to see the second fact. If you don't do enough damage you are behind and any decent Zerg midgame will just crush you, as you will be so hard pressed to take a third. Idra played greedy like always, and Kas won with simple hellion builds. If Idra had said GG and left, this thread wouldn't even be going nuts. Kas played average in every single game, but Terran cheese is best cheese. Well considering that Idra doesn't play safe and doesn't open most of the times with a roach warren, makes your arguement invalid. He eco cheeses. They both didn't play safe in any way, and Kas was just able to punish it. Now show some manner and congratulate Empire and Kas. Idra fanboys complain just as much as a protos wins as that a Terran wins, it is sickening. Getting 2 reactor facts early isn't cheesy in the slightest. It doesn't put you behind in any way even if you don't do enough damage . If you don't suicide the hellions in just for the chance of some drone kills, you can deny creep tumors while keeping map control with the hellions, and then when you switch over to marine/tanks production the hellions are a great addition scouting ahead, protecting flanks and killing lings. Yes It Is You cannot tech fast enough to stop midgame Zerg tech if all your hellions do is deny creep tumors. You are forced to go for some sort of delayed mech or marine tank hellion 2 base all in. PLEASE show me 1 replay that exists of a Terran opening 2 fact hellion and NOT doing any damage, then winning in the mid game. Please. it is fine as long as u transition into mech.
Yeah KINDA, but you're going to have to then rush tech in order to get siege mode, enough turrets to stop the incoming 10 mutas, and start getting Thors out. GL taking a third anytime soon, and Zerg is free to double expand while you're rushing your mech tech that you delayed putting out so many hellions.
You just HAVE to do damage with this, there's no other option.
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On November 14 2011 08:07 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2011 07:55 Zorgaz wrote:On November 14 2011 07:39 norlock wrote:On November 14 2011 07:18 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 14 2011 07:14 K3Nyy wrote:On November 14 2011 07:11 hitpoint wrote:
So the entire league ended with two mass hellion cheeses and one xel'naga auto win, but people are complaining about some mild bm instead... It's not cheese. In a sense, Idra "cheesed" more than Kas, though his "cheese" was blindly build drones without scouting. Kas went 2fact reactor hellions which isn't cheese in the slightest. YES IT IS You have to go 2fact reactor blind and pray that your opponent doesn't get a random lucky OL scout in to see the second fact. If you don't do enough damage you are behind and any decent Zerg midgame will just crush you, as you will be so hard pressed to take a third. Idra played greedy like always, and Kas won with simple hellion builds. If Idra had said GG and left, this thread wouldn't even be going nuts. Kas played average in every single game, but Terran cheese is best cheese. Well considering that Idra doesn't play safe and doesn't open most of the times with a roach warren, makes your arguement invalid. He eco cheeses. They both didn't play safe in any way, and Kas was just able to punish it. Now show some manner and congratulate Empire and Kas. Idra fanboys complain just as much as a protos wins as that a Terran wins, it is sickening. Getting 2 reactor facts early isn't cheesy in the slightest. It doesn't put you behind in any way even if you don't do enough damage . If you don't suicide the hellions in just for the chance of some drone kills, you can deny creep tumors while keeping map control with the hellions, and then when you switch over to marine/tanks production the hellions are a great addition scouting ahead, protecting flanks and killing lings. Yes It Is You cannot tech fast enough to stop midgame Zerg tech if all your hellions do is deny creep tumors. You are forced to go for some sort of delayed mech or marine tank hellion 2 base all in. PLEASE show me 1 replay that exists of a Terran opening 2 fact hellion and NOT doing any damage, then winning in the mid game. Please.
Please, watch Dongraegu vs Happy this GSL he doesnt kill any drones with this opening, still win macro game. now don't tell me DRG isnt a decent zerg.
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On November 14 2011 08:48 cold- wrote:
idra is a newb who doesn't know how to counter mass hellions
he lost like so many times to this same old strat and still doesn't know that he needs to make more spines or roaches
idra newb? lol
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On November 14 2011 08:48 cold- wrote:
idra is a newb who doesn't know how to counter mass hellions
he lost like so many times to this same old strat and still doesn't know that he needs to make more spines or roaches
what an ignorant post
He obviously knows how to counter it. Its the scouting part that is the issue. U make some spines and roaches and the terran ends up doing standard marine tank timing and then what?
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On November 14 2011 08:36 tuho12345 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2011 08:33 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 14 2011 08:27 tuho12345 wrote:On November 14 2011 07:39 norlock wrote:On November 14 2011 07:18 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 14 2011 07:14 K3Nyy wrote:On November 14 2011 07:11 hitpoint wrote:
So the entire league ended with two mass hellion cheeses and one xel'naga auto win, but people are complaining about some mild bm instead... It's not cheese. In a sense, Idra "cheesed" more than Kas, though his "cheese" was blindly build drones without scouting. Kas went 2fact reactor hellions which isn't cheese in the slightest. YES IT IS You have to go 2fact reactor blind and pray that your opponent doesn't get a random lucky OL scout in to see the second fact. If you don't do enough damage you are behind and any decent Zerg midgame will just crush you, as you will be so hard pressed to take a third. Idra played greedy like always, and Kas won with simple hellion builds. If Idra had said GG and left, this thread wouldn't even be going nuts. Kas played average in every single game, but Terran cheese is best cheese. Well considering that Idra doesn't play safe and doesn't open most of the times with a roach warren, makes your arguement invalid. He eco cheeses. They both didn't play safe in any way, and Kas was just able to punish it. Now show some manner and congratulate Empire and Kas. Idra fanboys complain just as much as a protos wins as that a Terran wins, it is sickening. Don't bring Protoss in here. They qq b/c they're actually losing left and right. IdrA fanboys and him bm'ed the hell outta everyone even when Zerg and IdrA winning right and left. Totally different. Umm... Huk didn't just win MLG, did he? With MC in 2nd? Look at Code A Tosses right now.... lmao. This isn't 1 month ago. Really don't wanna argue with you about this to off topic. Just look at the bigger picture and figure yourself.
All of the protoss players in code s advanced to the next group stage. What more do you want?
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Predicting 3-1 for Empire, with Happy, Beastyqt and Aristeo taking the wins. If not, then 3-2 in EG's favour with Idra winning the ace match.
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On November 14 2011 07:13 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2011 07:12 Tachion wrote:On November 14 2011 07:08 Eppa! wrote:On November 14 2011 07:07 BandonBanshee wrote:
Is it possable to not be cost effective with hellions? Divebomb into a mineral line and your gaurenteed to kill enough drones to make it worth it. Watch when people do that to DRG 90% of the time they get destroyed. Its silly to QQ if IdRA looked at mini map and attack with lings he could have held. He let the hellions get past it with like 2 hits Actually DRG has been losing quite a bit lately to hellion builds when he tries to skip roaches. And when DRG goes roaches, he usually losses against the decent terrans. That's how much of a crutch roaches are in that TvZ matchup.
Considering that 90% of terrans go reactored hellion expand, and about half of the time they get greedy and don't get a bunker or a tank, roaches are not bad at all in TvZ. They often win the game straight up, considering how popular the double OC followup to reactored hellion expand is.
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On November 14 2011 09:50 Zefa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2011 08:48 cold- wrote:
idra is a newb who doesn't know how to counter mass hellions
he lost like so many times to this same old strat and still doesn't know that he needs to make more spines or roaches what an ignorant post He obviously knows how to counter it. Its the scouting part that is the issue. U make some spines and roaches and the terran ends up doing standard marine tank timing and then what?
how is it standard when he invested in 10 hellions ignoramus
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On November 14 2011 10:16 cold- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2011 09:50 Zefa wrote:On November 14 2011 08:48 cold- wrote:
idra is a newb who doesn't know how to counter mass hellions
he lost like so many times to this same old strat and still doesn't know that he needs to make more spines or roaches what an ignorant post He obviously knows how to counter it. Its the scouting part that is the issue. U make some spines and roaches and the terran ends up doing standard marine tank timing and then what? how is it standard when he invested in 10 hellions ignoramus
Learn to read???
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On November 14 2011 10:11 NuclearJudas wrote:
Predicting 3-1 for Empire, with Happy, Beastyqt and Aristeo taking the wins. If not, then 3-2 in EG's favour with Idra winning the ace match.
Seems like you are a bit late to the party. :D
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On November 14 2011 09:26 Reign.SLush wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2011 08:07 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 14 2011 07:55 Zorgaz wrote:On November 14 2011 07:39 norlock wrote:On November 14 2011 07:18 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 14 2011 07:14 K3Nyy wrote:On November 14 2011 07:11 hitpoint wrote:
So the entire league ended with two mass hellion cheeses and one xel'naga auto win, but people are complaining about some mild bm instead... It's not cheese. In a sense, Idra "cheesed" more than Kas, though his "cheese" was blindly build drones without scouting. Kas went 2fact reactor hellions which isn't cheese in the slightest. YES IT IS You have to go 2fact reactor blind and pray that your opponent doesn't get a random lucky OL scout in to see the second fact. If you don't do enough damage you are behind and any decent Zerg midgame will just crush you, as you will be so hard pressed to take a third. Idra played greedy like always, and Kas won with simple hellion builds. If Idra had said GG and left, this thread wouldn't even be going nuts. Kas played average in every single game, but Terran cheese is best cheese. Well considering that Idra doesn't play safe and doesn't open most of the times with a roach warren, makes your arguement invalid. He eco cheeses. They both didn't play safe in any way, and Kas was just able to punish it. Now show some manner and congratulate Empire and Kas. Idra fanboys complain just as much as a protos wins as that a Terran wins, it is sickening. Getting 2 reactor facts early isn't cheesy in the slightest. It doesn't put you behind in any way even if you don't do enough damage . If you don't suicide the hellions in just for the chance of some drone kills, you can deny creep tumors while keeping map control with the hellions, and then when you switch over to marine/tanks production the hellions are a great addition scouting ahead, protecting flanks and killing lings. Yes It Is You cannot tech fast enough to stop midgame Zerg tech if all your hellions do is deny creep tumors. You are forced to go for some sort of delayed mech or marine tank hellion 2 base all in. PLEASE show me 1 replay that exists of a Terran opening 2 fact hellion and NOT doing any damage, then winning in the mid game. Please. Please, watch Dongraegu vs Happy this GSL he doesnt kill any drones with this opening, still win macro game. now don't tell me DRG isnt a decent zerg.
Do I have to have GOM pass to watch this?
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On November 14 2011 10:29 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2011 09:26 Reign.SLush wrote:On November 14 2011 08:07 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 14 2011 07:55 Zorgaz wrote:On November 14 2011 07:39 norlock wrote:On November 14 2011 07:18 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 14 2011 07:14 K3Nyy wrote:On November 14 2011 07:11 hitpoint wrote:
So the entire league ended with two mass hellion cheeses and one xel'naga auto win, but people are complaining about some mild bm instead... It's not cheese. In a sense, Idra "cheesed" more than Kas, though his "cheese" was blindly build drones without scouting. Kas went 2fact reactor hellions which isn't cheese in the slightest. YES IT IS You have to go 2fact reactor blind and pray that your opponent doesn't get a random lucky OL scout in to see the second fact. If you don't do enough damage you are behind and any decent Zerg midgame will just crush you, as you will be so hard pressed to take a third. Idra played greedy like always, and Kas won with simple hellion builds. If Idra had said GG and left, this thread wouldn't even be going nuts. Kas played average in every single game, but Terran cheese is best cheese. Well considering that Idra doesn't play safe and doesn't open most of the times with a roach warren, makes your arguement invalid. He eco cheeses. They both didn't play safe in any way, and Kas was just able to punish it. Now show some manner and congratulate Empire and Kas. Idra fanboys complain just as much as a protos wins as that a Terran wins, it is sickening. Getting 2 reactor facts early isn't cheesy in the slightest. It doesn't put you behind in any way even if you don't do enough damage . If you don't suicide the hellions in just for the chance of some drone kills, you can deny creep tumors while keeping map control with the hellions, and then when you switch over to marine/tanks production the hellions are a great addition scouting ahead, protecting flanks and killing lings. Yes It Is You cannot tech fast enough to stop midgame Zerg tech if all your hellions do is deny creep tumors. You are forced to go for some sort of delayed mech or marine tank hellion 2 base all in. PLEASE show me 1 replay that exists of a Terran opening 2 fact hellion and NOT doing any damage, then winning in the mid game. Please. Please, watch Dongraegu vs Happy this GSL he doesnt kill any drones with this opening, still win macro game. now don't tell me DRG isnt a decent zerg. Do I have to have GOM pass to watch this?
IIRC it is game 1 so it should be free.
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EPT
