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Gonna be honest... I didn't really care about the result of that match. I don't expect either Jjakji or Leenock to make it out.
The next match, however, I am looking forward to. Ganzi v Killer is very likely THE game to see who takes second in the group.
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Yeah, good call. The LR wasn't up for the start of the AoL though, at least in the first few pages of tourneys.
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On November 05 2011 16:21 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 16:19 Probasaur wrote:On November 05 2011 16:15 blade55555 wrote:On November 05 2011 16:13 Probasaur wrote:
I really thought Killer could have taken that match, he was in a great position and his +2 timing was strong. Then DRG gets his 1 unit out that wins him the game..... Zerg is the only race I ever see win that way. Toss or Terran will be ahead or even and about to crush the zerg then they get out either infestors or Broodlords... and thats it, GG.
One thing specifically tho, Doesn't it still seem so unnecessary that Blink doesn't work while Fungal'd? And not even about balance it just seems strange a blink upgrade doesn't cancel out movement effects. Stopping massive units is also another way the game seems like it doesn't follow it's own rules. What lol. When you do an all in you have a timing before infestors and he missed it due to DRG's fantastic decision making and counter attacks. Its just like if a zerg does a 2 base roach/hydra attack hoping to win before colossi, but once that colossi pops you are guaranteed to lose same thing as when infestors were out lol. This post just made my brain hurt -_-. You throw ALL IN around so much, but honestly a timing attack after your 2 bases is fully saturated is far from it. If you get 1 collosus it helps yeah, but it far from halts a serious roach hydra push. The reason why zerg has these 1 unit wins is because its not just 1 of the 1 unit. Zerg just masses them up in a few seconds, and thats it, no chance for anything in their way. It was all in... Did you see him attempt to take a third? no thats an all in. Once his army is killed he loses the game unless zerg has a brain tumor or goes afk or dies or something... Thats the definition of an all in. How is that not all in? He had NO intentions of taking a third that game. If thats not all in then I guess 1 base baneling bust vs terran isn't an all in either. Just your posts make my brain hurt with... just nvm lol i'm done with this thread.
Just your brain had just prolly been hurting long before I just came along.
How would you know if he intended to take a 3rd? He had to keep making units to stop from dying. Zerg had 3 bases and toss had 2.... I've heard a million times zerg is supposed to be usually be up 1 base. Disregarding that, what game do you remember where a zerg kills a toss army decisively and the game isn't over when it isn't late game? Hell even late game it is still nearly impossible.
Also why no answer to my response about how you think getting 1 collosus out is equivalent to zerg getting to infestor or broodlord tech??? Here it is again in case you missed it...
"If you get 1 collosus it helps yeah, but it far from halts a serious roach hydra push. The reason why zerg has these 1 unit wins is because its not just 1 of the 1 unit. Zerg just masses them up in a few seconds, and thats it, no chance for anything in their way"
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On November 05 2011 16:26 MrKn4rz wrote:
Gold Bases or not this map still favours Terran heavily imo.
TLPD actually has zerg favored winrates though.
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On November 05 2011 16:17 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 16:07 Techno wrote:On November 05 2011 16:06 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 15:54 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 15:52 Zalithian wrote:
Seems like none of the players take AOL very seriously. I really would like to know the rationale of this. You think Leenock said to himself : "I don't take this tourney seriously lol, so I'll lose to 3 hellions when even in ladder I defend that in my sleep". He just fucked up, explain which part of "taking seriously" would change anything to what happened (unless he played drunk or stoned, in that case yeah, you can say that) Have you been watching much AOL? Almost all the games are uncharacteristically sloppy. So many dumb mistakes by a lot of players. I doubt there is much room to argue that people take AOL as seriously as Code S. Seems like AOL is more for fun in the players view than Code S. I certainly don't have inside information on how they prepare for AOL vs Code S, but based on the gameplay I don't think it is an unreasonable assumption. Whatever helps you sleep at night, dude. Frankly, I think everyone knows that every professional player wants to win every single game (s)he plays. You really think every pro puts in maximum effort and focus into every game/tourney they play? There is much less on the line in this invitational than there is for Code S. The Code S prize pool dwarfs the AOL prize pool. People in AOL also do not need to worry about dropping into Code A or even worse, out of GSL. First prize for this invitational is $9,000. While a fair amount of money, it does not even compare to the amount you get for winning Code S or other significant tournaments. Remember, professionals play to make money, but to think that they prepare the same under vastly different circumstances seems a bit naive.
I still don't understand the reasoning, unless you think the skill level is proportional with the prizepool. So what happen when they train ? No money so no skill used in training ? This is a extreme example so you understand that this reasoning is just theorycraft and doesn't apply in reality.
They don't prepare builds, I can get that (but even that is theorycrafting, I mean, they play 12 hours a day, tomorrow they have to face 4 opponents, what do you think they'll do today ? What do you think the coach is doing ?)
Not showing their "secret" builds, that I agree.
But being sloppy ? Hell no. Unless they don't take it seriously at all and party the night before and haven't slept before their game, or unless they're drunk or stoned, or unless they're watching TV while playing, I don't see how "not taking seriously" a tournament could induce sloppiness.
Try to define what you mean by "not taking seriously", and try to actually and concretely put words on how and why it'll affect their play, then you'll see that this concept is pure theorycraft.
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Did the stream just end for anyone else?
"Cannot play this media file Error Code: 0x00000051"
Happened right in the middle of Ganzi-DRG
*Ok stream came back about 10 minutes later, tried refreshing and hitting play many times. No idea what changed
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On November 05 2011 16:44 CowMoo wrote:
Did the stream just end for anyone else?
"Cannot play this media file Error Code: 0x00000051"
Happened right in the middle of Ganzi-DRG
just press play on gomplayer again =)
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On November 05 2011 16:42 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 16:17 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:07 Techno wrote:On November 05 2011 16:06 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 15:54 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 15:52 Zalithian wrote:
Seems like none of the players take AOL very seriously. I really would like to know the rationale of this. You think Leenock said to himself : "I don't take this tourney seriously lol, so I'll lose to 3 hellions when even in ladder I defend that in my sleep". He just fucked up, explain which part of "taking seriously" would change anything to what happened (unless he played drunk or stoned, in that case yeah, you can say that) Have you been watching much AOL? Almost all the games are uncharacteristically sloppy. So many dumb mistakes by a lot of players. I doubt there is much room to argue that people take AOL as seriously as Code S. Seems like AOL is more for fun in the players view than Code S. I certainly don't have inside information on how they prepare for AOL vs Code S, but based on the gameplay I don't think it is an unreasonable assumption. Whatever helps you sleep at night, dude. Frankly, I think everyone knows that every professional player wants to win every single game (s)he plays. You really think every pro puts in maximum effort and focus into every game/tourney they play? There is much less on the line in this invitational than there is for Code S. The Code S prize pool dwarfs the AOL prize pool. People in AOL also do not need to worry about dropping into Code A or even worse, out of GSL. First prize for this invitational is $9,000. While a fair amount of money, it does not even compare to the amount you get for winning Code S or other significant tournaments. Remember, professionals play to make money, but to think that they prepare the same under vastly different circumstances seems a bit naive. I still don't understand the reasoning, unless you think the skill level is proportional with the prizepool. So what happen when they train ? No money so no skill used in training ? This is a extreme example so you understand that this reasoning is just theorycraft and doesn't apply in reality. They don't prepare builds, I can get that (but even that is theorycrafting, I mean, they play 12 hours a day, tomorrow they have to face 4 opponents, what do you think they'll do today ? What do you think the coach is doing ?) Not showing their "secret" builds, that I agree. But being sloppy ? Hell no. Unless they don't take it seriously at all and party the night before and haven't slept before their game, or unless they're drunk or stoned, or unless they're watching TV while playing, I don't see how "not taking seriously" a tournament could induce sloppiness. Try to define what you mean by "not taking seriously", and try to actually and concretely put words on how and why it'll affect their play, then you'll see that this concept is pure theorycraft.
You fail to see how not preparing as much and not focusing as much could lead to being sloppy? Well then. Being less focused or not practicing as seriously is exactly what leads good players to play sloppily, aside from pressure and nerves. Not much pressure at all for this tournament.
Let me give you an example. Let's say you're a college student who has two exams coming up (that's your only job). In the first exam, you don't get anything unless you score a 95 or above, which will earn you a decent prize, and there is no negative consequence even if you fail the exam.
For the second exam, you can get a great reward by doing well (a 90 or above) and still a decent reward by scoring an 80-90, but if you happen to score less than an 80 you are dropped into a remedial class with essentially no rewards, and the possibility that you will be kicked out of school for the rest of the semester.
Are you honestly going to spend 10 hours a day studying for both exams? Are you really going to put the same amount of effort into both? I would agree pros want to win as many games as possible, but I do not agree that things like Prize Pool and other factors (like potentially being kicked out of GSL) do not motivate players to practice more, focus harder, etc. Not using their best builds, not preparing special builds for AOL would be indicators to me that they do not take AOL as seriously as they would something like Code S. I mean, if AOL is just as important, why woudn't you use your best builds?
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On November 05 2011 16:52 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 16:42 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 16:17 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:07 Techno wrote:On November 05 2011 16:06 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 15:54 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 15:52 Zalithian wrote:
Seems like none of the players take AOL very seriously. I really would like to know the rationale of this. You think Leenock said to himself : "I don't take this tourney seriously lol, so I'll lose to 3 hellions when even in ladder I defend that in my sleep". He just fucked up, explain which part of "taking seriously" would change anything to what happened (unless he played drunk or stoned, in that case yeah, you can say that) Have you been watching much AOL? Almost all the games are uncharacteristically sloppy. So many dumb mistakes by a lot of players. I doubt there is much room to argue that people take AOL as seriously as Code S. Seems like AOL is more for fun in the players view than Code S. I certainly don't have inside information on how they prepare for AOL vs Code S, but based on the gameplay I don't think it is an unreasonable assumption. Whatever helps you sleep at night, dude. Frankly, I think everyone knows that every professional player wants to win every single game (s)he plays. You really think every pro puts in maximum effort and focus into every game/tourney they play? There is much less on the line in this invitational than there is for Code S. The Code S prize pool dwarfs the AOL prize pool. People in AOL also do not need to worry about dropping into Code A or even worse, out of GSL. First prize for this invitational is $9,000. While a fair amount of money, it does not even compare to the amount you get for winning Code S or other significant tournaments. Remember, professionals play to make money, but to think that they prepare the same under vastly different circumstances seems a bit naive. I still don't understand the reasoning, unless you think the skill level is proportional with the prizepool. So what happen when they train ? No money so no skill used in training ? This is a extreme example so you understand that this reasoning is just theorycraft and doesn't apply in reality. They don't prepare builds, I can get that (but even that is theorycrafting, I mean, they play 12 hours a day, tomorrow they have to face 4 opponents, what do you think they'll do today ? What do you think the coach is doing ?) Not showing their "secret" builds, that I agree. But being sloppy ? Hell no. Unless they don't take it seriously at all and party the night before and haven't slept before their game, or unless they're drunk or stoned, or unless they're watching TV while playing, I don't see how "not taking seriously" a tournament could induce sloppiness. Try to define what you mean by "not taking seriously", and try to actually and concretely put words on how and why it'll affect their play, then you'll see that this concept is pure theorycraft. You fail to see how not preparing as much and not focusing as much could lead to being sloppy? Well then. Being less focused or not practicing as seriously is exactly what leads good players to play sloppily, aside from pressure and nerves. Not much pressure at all for this tournament. Let me give you an example. Let's say you're a college student (that's your only job). In the first exam, you don't get anything unless you score a 90 or above, and there is no negative consequence even if you fail the exam. For the second exam, you can get a great reward by doing well (a 90 or above) and still a decent reward by scoring an 80-90, but if you happen to score less than an 80 you are dropped into a remedial class with essentially no rewards, and the possibility that you will be kicked out of school for the rest of the semester. Are you honestly going to spend 10 hours a day studying for both exams? Are you really going to put the same amount of effort into both? I would agree pros want to win as many games as possible, but I do not agree that things like Prize Pool and other facts (like potentially being kicked out of GSL) do not motivate players to practice more, focus harder, etc.
I don't get it..... are you arguing that they stop practicing as hard before this tournament?? I can assure you that starcraft pro's, especially koreans, usually practice every day all day no matter if they have upcoming tournament matches or not.
What are you trying to say? How would their practice be any different? Your analogy didn't clear up anything, made your point more convoluted actually.
And you say prize pool effects your focus like the bigger the pool the more focus. Idk how that applies here tho.... players are always as focused as they are capable of. You think if they could just focus more cause of how bad they want it? Then no one would ever lose in Code S and they'd all be named MVP.
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If you guys don't understand it at this point then there is no use to continue explaining. I guess we'll agree to disagree. Without actual details on their preparation for each tournament, it is a fruitless discussion to continue.
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You're not trying to see it from the other side tho... you're entrenched and you aren't taking obvious facts into consideration.... I'm asking you if there's more to your point something I'm not hearing cause right now it doesn't add up man right now it seems like you don't understand how a starcraft pro prepares for games and practices.
How do you think they practice any less or focus any less? In what way?
Does anyone else find Khaldor more and more long winded??
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There are different ways to practice and prepare. There's ladder. There's playing with specific scenarios with teammates or other skilled friends, or even custom maps for a specific scenario. There's analyzing your mistakes, and there is preparing specifically for certain players. I'm not saying they automatically go from playing 10 hours a day to 5, but perhaps they go from 4 hours of teammate practice, 3 hours of analyzing replays, and 3 hours of analyzing opponents to 8 hours of ladder and 2 hours of random stuff.
Anyway, (in my opinion) the players do not take AOL as seriously as Code S. Not something I can prove, or anyone can disprove without insight from the players participating in both.
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Leenock is pissed. 
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On November 05 2011 16:58 Probasaur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 16:52 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:42 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 16:17 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:07 Techno wrote:On November 05 2011 16:06 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 15:54 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 15:52 Zalithian wrote:
Seems like none of the players take AOL very seriously. I really would like to know the rationale of this. You think Leenock said to himself : "I don't take this tourney seriously lol, so I'll lose to 3 hellions when even in ladder I defend that in my sleep". He just fucked up, explain which part of "taking seriously" would change anything to what happened (unless he played drunk or stoned, in that case yeah, you can say that) Have you been watching much AOL? Almost all the games are uncharacteristically sloppy. So many dumb mistakes by a lot of players. I doubt there is much room to argue that people take AOL as seriously as Code S. Seems like AOL is more for fun in the players view than Code S. I certainly don't have inside information on how they prepare for AOL vs Code S, but based on the gameplay I don't think it is an unreasonable assumption. Whatever helps you sleep at night, dude. Frankly, I think everyone knows that every professional player wants to win every single game (s)he plays. You really think every pro puts in maximum effort and focus into every game/tourney they play? There is much less on the line in this invitational than there is for Code S. The Code S prize pool dwarfs the AOL prize pool. People in AOL also do not need to worry about dropping into Code A or even worse, out of GSL. First prize for this invitational is $9,000. While a fair amount of money, it does not even compare to the amount you get for winning Code S or other significant tournaments. Remember, professionals play to make money, but to think that they prepare the same under vastly different circumstances seems a bit naive. I still don't understand the reasoning, unless you think the skill level is proportional with the prizepool. So what happen when they train ? No money so no skill used in training ? This is a extreme example so you understand that this reasoning is just theorycraft and doesn't apply in reality. They don't prepare builds, I can get that (but even that is theorycrafting, I mean, they play 12 hours a day, tomorrow they have to face 4 opponents, what do you think they'll do today ? What do you think the coach is doing ?) Not showing their "secret" builds, that I agree. But being sloppy ? Hell no. Unless they don't take it seriously at all and party the night before and haven't slept before their game, or unless they're drunk or stoned, or unless they're watching TV while playing, I don't see how "not taking seriously" a tournament could induce sloppiness. Try to define what you mean by "not taking seriously", and try to actually and concretely put words on how and why it'll affect their play, then you'll see that this concept is pure theorycraft. You fail to see how not preparing as much and not focusing as much could lead to being sloppy? Well then. Being less focused or not practicing as seriously is exactly what leads good players to play sloppily, aside from pressure and nerves. Not much pressure at all for this tournament. Let me give you an example. Let's say you're a college student (that's your only job). In the first exam, you don't get anything unless you score a 90 or above, and there is no negative consequence even if you fail the exam. For the second exam, you can get a great reward by doing well (a 90 or above) and still a decent reward by scoring an 80-90, but if you happen to score less than an 80 you are dropped into a remedial class with essentially no rewards, and the possibility that you will be kicked out of school for the rest of the semester. Are you honestly going to spend 10 hours a day studying for both exams? Are you really going to put the same amount of effort into both? I would agree pros want to win as many games as possible, but I do not agree that things like Prize Pool and other facts (like potentially being kicked out of GSL) do not motivate players to practice more, focus harder, etc. I don't get it..... are you arguing that they stop practicing as hard before this tournament?? I can assure you that starcraft pro's, especially koreans, usually practice every day all day no matter if they have upcoming tournament matches or not. What are you trying to say? How would their practice be any different? Your analogy didn't clear up anything, made your point more convoluted actually. And you say prize pool effects your focus like the bigger the pool the more focus. Idk how that applies here tho.... players are always as focused as they are capable of. You think if they could just focus more cause of how bad they want it? Then no one would ever lose in Code S and they'd all be named MVP.
They don't practice/prepare as hard because they can't. One, they just found out the groups a few days ago. Two, they can't train for everyone. In Code S you get weeks to prepare for an opponent.
And yes, prize pool does affect focus. Players aren't "always as focused as they are capable of". Ask any player and they'll tell you they lose focus sometimes, especially during unimportant matches.
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Huh. This isn't the first time Killer gets owned by a sloppy wall. He should really work on it, it's literally losing him games.
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I love how most of the players just doesn't give a shit about this league. 1 basing zerg, carriers etc. Pretty funny.
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On November 05 2011 17:20 Kiyo. wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 16:58 Probasaur wrote:On November 05 2011 16:52 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:42 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 16:17 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:07 Techno wrote:On November 05 2011 16:06 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 15:54 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 15:52 Zalithian wrote:
Seems like none of the players take AOL very seriously. I really would like to know the rationale of this. You think Leenock said to himself : "I don't take this tourney seriously lol, so I'll lose to 3 hellions when even in ladder I defend that in my sleep". He just fucked up, explain which part of "taking seriously" would change anything to what happened (unless he played drunk or stoned, in that case yeah, you can say that) Have you been watching much AOL? Almost all the games are uncharacteristically sloppy. So many dumb mistakes by a lot of players. I doubt there is much room to argue that people take AOL as seriously as Code S. Seems like AOL is more for fun in the players view than Code S. I certainly don't have inside information on how they prepare for AOL vs Code S, but based on the gameplay I don't think it is an unreasonable assumption. Whatever helps you sleep at night, dude. Frankly, I think everyone knows that every professional player wants to win every single game (s)he plays. You really think every pro puts in maximum effort and focus into every game/tourney they play? There is much less on the line in this invitational than there is for Code S. The Code S prize pool dwarfs the AOL prize pool. People in AOL also do not need to worry about dropping into Code A or even worse, out of GSL. First prize for this invitational is $9,000. While a fair amount of money, it does not even compare to the amount you get for winning Code S or other significant tournaments. Remember, professionals play to make money, but to think that they prepare the same under vastly different circumstances seems a bit naive. I still don't understand the reasoning, unless you think the skill level is proportional with the prizepool. So what happen when they train ? No money so no skill used in training ? This is a extreme example so you understand that this reasoning is just theorycraft and doesn't apply in reality. They don't prepare builds, I can get that (but even that is theorycrafting, I mean, they play 12 hours a day, tomorrow they have to face 4 opponents, what do you think they'll do today ? What do you think the coach is doing ?) Not showing their "secret" builds, that I agree. But being sloppy ? Hell no. Unless they don't take it seriously at all and party the night before and haven't slept before their game, or unless they're drunk or stoned, or unless they're watching TV while playing, I don't see how "not taking seriously" a tournament could induce sloppiness. Try to define what you mean by "not taking seriously", and try to actually and concretely put words on how and why it'll affect their play, then you'll see that this concept is pure theorycraft. You fail to see how not preparing as much and not focusing as much could lead to being sloppy? Well then. Being less focused or not practicing as seriously is exactly what leads good players to play sloppily, aside from pressure and nerves. Not much pressure at all for this tournament. Let me give you an example. Let's say you're a college student (that's your only job). In the first exam, you don't get anything unless you score a 90 or above, and there is no negative consequence even if you fail the exam. For the second exam, you can get a great reward by doing well (a 90 or above) and still a decent reward by scoring an 80-90, but if you happen to score less than an 80 you are dropped into a remedial class with essentially no rewards, and the possibility that you will be kicked out of school for the rest of the semester. Are you honestly going to spend 10 hours a day studying for both exams? Are you really going to put the same amount of effort into both? I would agree pros want to win as many games as possible, but I do not agree that things like Prize Pool and other facts (like potentially being kicked out of GSL) do not motivate players to practice more, focus harder, etc. I don't get it..... are you arguing that they stop practicing as hard before this tournament?? I can assure you that starcraft pro's, especially koreans, usually practice every day all day no matter if they have upcoming tournament matches or not. What are you trying to say? How would their practice be any different? Your analogy didn't clear up anything, made your point more convoluted actually. And you say prize pool effects your focus like the bigger the pool the more focus. Idk how that applies here tho.... players are always as focused as they are capable of. You think if they could just focus more cause of how bad they want it? Then no one would ever lose in Code S and they'd all be named MVP. They don't practice/prepare as hard because they can't. One, they just found out the groups a few days ago. Two, they can't train for everyone. In Code S you get weeks to prepare for an opponent. And yes, prize pool does affect focus. Players aren't "always as focused as they are capable of". Ask any player and they'll tell you they lose focus sometimes, especially during unimportant matches.
Okay but this isn't some online tournament or some ladder match. It's still a GOM match that is televised and gives you points. Not to mention the money. I don't care how much Code S is, that doesn't mean they dont want to win this cause its less when its still a substantial amount.
I'll agree that if they have a Code S match coming up at the same time as one of these then they will solely practice for that Code S match. But there's seemingly no difference in preparing for the group stages. I highly doubt they train for all 3 opponents when they might not even be playing 1 of them.
Facepalm moment for Khaldor. "Great scan for the Terran player's opponent." Thats why you LEARN THEIR FUCKIN NAMES DUDE!! My god he really urks me.... stop being stupid Khaldor youre being paid to do this you can learn their names. Or do you just like saying Terran player/Zerg player/ Protoss player that much you even say it during a TvT???
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EPT
