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On November 05 2011 16:07 Techno wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 16:06 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 15:54 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 15:52 Zalithian wrote:
Seems like none of the players take AOL very seriously. I really would like to know the rationale of this. You think Leenock said to himself : "I don't take this tourney seriously lol, so I'll lose to 3 hellions when even in ladder I defend that in my sleep". He just fucked up, explain which part of "taking seriously" would change anything to what happened (unless he played drunk or stoned, in that case yeah, you can say that) Have you been watching much AOL? Almost all the games are uncharacteristically sloppy. So many dumb mistakes by a lot of players. I doubt there is much room to argue that people take AOL as seriously as Code S. Seems like AOL is more for fun in the players view than Code S. I certainly don't have inside information on how they prepare for AOL vs Code S, but based on the gameplay I don't think it is an unreasonable assumption. Whatever helps you sleep at night, dude. Frankly, I think everyone knows that every professional player wants to win every single game (s)he plays.
You really think every pro puts in maximum effort and focus into every game/tourney they play? There is much less on the line in this invitational than there is for Code S. The Code S prize pool dwarfs the AOL prize pool. People in AOL also do not need to worry about dropping into Code A or even worse, out of GSL. First prize for this invitational is $9,000. While a fair amount of money, it does not even compare to the amount you get for winning Code S or other significant tournaments.
Remember, professionals play to make money, but to think that they prepare the same under vastly different circumstances seems a bit naive.
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On November 05 2011 16:15 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 16:13 Probasaur wrote:
I really thought Killer could have taken that match, he was in a great position and his +2 timing was strong. Then DRG gets his 1 unit out that wins him the game..... Zerg is the only race I ever see win that way. Toss or Terran will be ahead or even and about to crush the zerg then they get out either infestors or Broodlords... and thats it, GG.
One thing specifically tho, Doesn't it still seem so unnecessary that Blink doesn't work while Fungal'd? And not even about balance it just seems strange a blink upgrade doesn't cancel out movement effects. Stopping massive units is also another way the game seems like it doesn't follow it's own rules. What lol. When you do an all in you have a timing before infestors and he missed it due to DRG's fantastic decision making and counter attacks. Its just like if a zerg does a 2 base roach/hydra attack hoping to win before colossi, but once that colossi pops you are guaranteed to lose same thing as when infestors were out lol. This post just made my brain hurt -_-.
You throw ALL IN around so much, but honestly a timing attack after your 2 bases is fully saturated is far from it.
If you get 1 collosus it helps yeah, but it far from halts a serious roach hydra push. The reason why zerg has these 1 unit wins is because its not just 1 of the 1 unit. Zerg just masses them up in a few seconds, and thats it, no chance for anything in their way.
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Protoss need to move on from these 2 base mass gateway all ins. No, I'm not claiming I'm smarter or better than Killer. Yes I think his strategy is too old and stale to work vs top level zerg players like DRG.
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How is it an all in? Because he doesn't tech? I don't understand.... its a more army focused and less economy or tech focused. But he had +2 how is that an all in?
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Leenock is so disappointing. FFS Leenock get it together, you've played in like 4 GSLs already and have shown moments of brilliance in all.
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On November 05 2011 16:19 Probasaur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 16:15 blade55555 wrote:On November 05 2011 16:13 Probasaur wrote:
I really thought Killer could have taken that match, he was in a great position and his +2 timing was strong. Then DRG gets his 1 unit out that wins him the game..... Zerg is the only race I ever see win that way. Toss or Terran will be ahead or even and about to crush the zerg then they get out either infestors or Broodlords... and thats it, GG.
One thing specifically tho, Doesn't it still seem so unnecessary that Blink doesn't work while Fungal'd? And not even about balance it just seems strange a blink upgrade doesn't cancel out movement effects. Stopping massive units is also another way the game seems like it doesn't follow it's own rules. What lol. When you do an all in you have a timing before infestors and he missed it due to DRG's fantastic decision making and counter attacks. Its just like if a zerg does a 2 base roach/hydra attack hoping to win before colossi, but once that colossi pops you are guaranteed to lose same thing as when infestors were out lol. This post just made my brain hurt -_-. You throw ALL IN around so much, but honestly a timing attack after your 2 bases is fully saturated is far from it. If you get 1 collosus it helps yeah, but it far from halts a serious roach hydra push. The reason why zerg has these 1 unit wins is because its not just 1 of the 1 unit. Zerg just masses them up in a few seconds, and thats it, no chance for anything in their way.
It was all in... Did you see him attempt to take a third? no thats an all in. Once his army is killed he loses the game unless zerg has a brain tumor or goes afk or dies or something... Thats the definition of an all in. How is that not all in? He had NO intentions of taking a third that game. If thats not all in then I guess 1 base baneling bust vs terran isn't an all in either.
Just your posts make my brain hurt with... just nvm lol i'm done with this thread.
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Christ Leenock lost so many mutas.
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Leenock chilling with 1.1k gas. Cool.
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On November 05 2011 16:20 Probasaur wrote:
How is it an all in? Because he doesn't tech? I don't understand.... its a more army focused and less economy or tech focused. But he had +2 how is that an all in?
It's designed to kill at a specific timing and if it doesn't, you're behind on tech and economically (considering most zergs will have a 3rd when your attack comes). Honestly it's just a slightly delayed and bigger 4 gate.
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Jjakji has like 15 medivacs...
lol and gg, because nothing ever died
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Zergs are trying to get broodlords too fast. Leenock doesn't have the economy to make the big numbers of corruptors and broods to effectively protect them.
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Gold Bases or not this map still favours Terran heavily imo.
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I realize leenock didnt lose that due to the ghosts... but man do I ever LOATHE ghosts as a P/Z player...
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ultra banes would have been a better tech against ghosts.
But I have a feeling a lot of zergs will head to the balance discussion topic right around now...
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On November 05 2011 16:19 Neurosis wrote:
Protoss need to move on from these 2 base mass gateway all ins. No, I'm not claiming I'm smarter or better than Killer. Yes I think his strategy is too old and stale to work vs top level zerg players like DRG. It's the map that he lost too, not DRG. Protoss has a win percentage on Dual Sight way below 50% because there is no safe way to take a third without overextending your army, which leaves 2 base play, and the Zerg can basically prepare for a timing blindly because there is no other option as Protoss.
They would play Mr.Taxi.
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SNSD in Japanese? Oh yeah...
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On November 05 2011 16:27 neoghaleon55 wrote:
ultra banes would have been a better tech against ghosts.
But I have a feeling a lot of zergs will head to the balance discussion topic right around now...
ghosts had nothing to do with leenock losing this game. he got outplayed. the best way to counter mass ghosts is mass muta/roach/banelings
you can harrass the terran with mutas everywhere, pick of tanks etc and then attack with roaches and blings because ghosts are awful against both of them. making broodlords against ghosts is just a mistake, especially when you are behind in economy.
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On November 05 2011 16:27 neoghaleon55 wrote:
ultra banes would have been a better tech against ghosts.
But I have a feeling a lot of zergs will head to the balance discussion topic right around now...
you realize ghosts counter ultras with snipe also and ghosts are not light units?
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On November 05 2011 16:21 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 16:19 Probasaur wrote:On November 05 2011 16:15 blade55555 wrote:On November 05 2011 16:13 Probasaur wrote:
I really thought Killer could have taken that match, he was in a great position and his +2 timing was strong. Then DRG gets his 1 unit out that wins him the game..... Zerg is the only race I ever see win that way. Toss or Terran will be ahead or even and about to crush the zerg then they get out either infestors or Broodlords... and thats it, GG.
One thing specifically tho, Doesn't it still seem so unnecessary that Blink doesn't work while Fungal'd? And not even about balance it just seems strange a blink upgrade doesn't cancel out movement effects. Stopping massive units is also another way the game seems like it doesn't follow it's own rules. What lol. When you do an all in you have a timing before infestors and he missed it due to DRG's fantastic decision making and counter attacks. Its just like if a zerg does a 2 base roach/hydra attack hoping to win before colossi, but once that colossi pops you are guaranteed to lose same thing as when infestors were out lol. This post just made my brain hurt -_-. You throw ALL IN around so much, but honestly a timing attack after your 2 bases is fully saturated is far from it. If you get 1 collosus it helps yeah, but it far from halts a serious roach hydra push. The reason why zerg has these 1 unit wins is because its not just 1 of the 1 unit. Zerg just masses them up in a few seconds, and thats it, no chance for anything in their way. It was all in... Did you see him attempt to take a third? no thats an all in. Once his army is killed he loses the game unless zerg has a brain tumor or goes afk or dies or something... Thats the definition of an all in. How is that not all in? He had NO intentions of taking a third that game. If thats not all in then I guess 1 base baneling bust vs terran isn't an all in either. Just your posts make my brain hurt with... just nvm lol i'm done with this thread.
Just your brain had just prolly been hurting long before I just came along.
How would you know if he intended to take a 3rd? He had to keep making units to stop from dying. Zerg had 3 bases and toss had 2.... I've heard a million times zerg is supposed to be usually be up 1 base. Disregarding that, what game do you remember where a zerg kills a toss army decisively and the game isn't over when it isn't late game? Hell even late game it is still nearly impossible.
Also why no answer to my response about how getting 1 collosus out is equivalent to zerg getting to infestor or broodlord tech??? Here it is again in case you missed it...
"If you get 1 collosus it helps yeah, but it far from halts a serious roach hydra push. The reason why zerg has these 1 unit wins is because its not just 1 of the 1 unit. Zerg just masses them up in a few seconds, and thats it, no chance for anything in their way"
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EPT
