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On November 05 2011 17:31 Probasaur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 17:20 Kiyo. wrote:On November 05 2011 16:58 Probasaur wrote:On November 05 2011 16:52 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:42 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 16:17 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:07 Techno wrote:On November 05 2011 16:06 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 15:54 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 15:52 Zalithian wrote:
Seems like none of the players take AOL very seriously. I really would like to know the rationale of this. You think Leenock said to himself : "I don't take this tourney seriously lol, so I'll lose to 3 hellions when even in ladder I defend that in my sleep". He just fucked up, explain which part of "taking seriously" would change anything to what happened (unless he played drunk or stoned, in that case yeah, you can say that) Have you been watching much AOL? Almost all the games are uncharacteristically sloppy. So many dumb mistakes by a lot of players. I doubt there is much room to argue that people take AOL as seriously as Code S. Seems like AOL is more for fun in the players view than Code S. I certainly don't have inside information on how they prepare for AOL vs Code S, but based on the gameplay I don't think it is an unreasonable assumption. Whatever helps you sleep at night, dude. Frankly, I think everyone knows that every professional player wants to win every single game (s)he plays. You really think every pro puts in maximum effort and focus into every game/tourney they play? There is much less on the line in this invitational than there is for Code S. The Code S prize pool dwarfs the AOL prize pool. People in AOL also do not need to worry about dropping into Code A or even worse, out of GSL. First prize for this invitational is $9,000. While a fair amount of money, it does not even compare to the amount you get for winning Code S or other significant tournaments. Remember, professionals play to make money, but to think that they prepare the same under vastly different circumstances seems a bit naive. I still don't understand the reasoning, unless you think the skill level is proportional with the prizepool. So what happen when they train ? No money so no skill used in training ? This is a extreme example so you understand that this reasoning is just theorycraft and doesn't apply in reality. They don't prepare builds, I can get that (but even that is theorycrafting, I mean, they play 12 hours a day, tomorrow they have to face 4 opponents, what do you think they'll do today ? What do you think the coach is doing ?) Not showing their "secret" builds, that I agree. But being sloppy ? Hell no. Unless they don't take it seriously at all and party the night before and haven't slept before their game, or unless they're drunk or stoned, or unless they're watching TV while playing, I don't see how "not taking seriously" a tournament could induce sloppiness. Try to define what you mean by "not taking seriously", and try to actually and concretely put words on how and why it'll affect their play, then you'll see that this concept is pure theorycraft. You fail to see how not preparing as much and not focusing as much could lead to being sloppy? Well then. Being less focused or not practicing as seriously is exactly what leads good players to play sloppily, aside from pressure and nerves. Not much pressure at all for this tournament. Let me give you an example. Let's say you're a college student (that's your only job). In the first exam, you don't get anything unless you score a 90 or above, and there is no negative consequence even if you fail the exam. For the second exam, you can get a great reward by doing well (a 90 or above) and still a decent reward by scoring an 80-90, but if you happen to score less than an 80 you are dropped into a remedial class with essentially no rewards, and the possibility that you will be kicked out of school for the rest of the semester. Are you honestly going to spend 10 hours a day studying for both exams? Are you really going to put the same amount of effort into both? I would agree pros want to win as many games as possible, but I do not agree that things like Prize Pool and other facts (like potentially being kicked out of GSL) do not motivate players to practice more, focus harder, etc. I don't get it..... are you arguing that they stop practicing as hard before this tournament?? I can assure you that starcraft pro's, especially koreans, usually practice every day all day no matter if they have upcoming tournament matches or not. What are you trying to say? How would their practice be any different? Your analogy didn't clear up anything, made your point more convoluted actually. And you say prize pool effects your focus like the bigger the pool the more focus. Idk how that applies here tho.... players are always as focused as they are capable of. You think if they could just focus more cause of how bad they want it? Then no one would ever lose in Code S and they'd all be named MVP. They don't practice/prepare as hard because they can't. One, they just found out the groups a few days ago. Two, they can't train for everyone. In Code S you get weeks to prepare for an opponent. And yes, prize pool does affect focus. Players aren't "always as focused as they are capable of". Ask any player and they'll tell you they lose focus sometimes, especially during unimportant matches. Okay but this isn't some online tournament or some ladder match. It's still a GOM match that is televised and gives you points. Not to mention the money. I don't care how much Code S is, that doesn't mean they dont want to win this cause its less when its still a substantial amount. I'll agree that if they have a Code S match coming up at the same time as one of these then they will solely practice for that Code S match. But there's seemingly no difference in preparing for the group stages. I highly doubt they train for all 3 opponents when they might not even be playing 1 of them.
It is a online tournament...
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On November 05 2011 17:20 Kiyo. wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 16:58 Probasaur wrote:On November 05 2011 16:52 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:42 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 16:17 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:07 Techno wrote:On November 05 2011 16:06 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 15:54 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 15:52 Zalithian wrote:
Seems like none of the players take AOL very seriously. I really would like to know the rationale of this. You think Leenock said to himself : "I don't take this tourney seriously lol, so I'll lose to 3 hellions when even in ladder I defend that in my sleep". He just fucked up, explain which part of "taking seriously" would change anything to what happened (unless he played drunk or stoned, in that case yeah, you can say that) Have you been watching much AOL? Almost all the games are uncharacteristically sloppy. So many dumb mistakes by a lot of players. I doubt there is much room to argue that people take AOL as seriously as Code S. Seems like AOL is more for fun in the players view than Code S. I certainly don't have inside information on how they prepare for AOL vs Code S, but based on the gameplay I don't think it is an unreasonable assumption. Whatever helps you sleep at night, dude. Frankly, I think everyone knows that every professional player wants to win every single game (s)he plays. You really think every pro puts in maximum effort and focus into every game/tourney they play? There is much less on the line in this invitational than there is for Code S. The Code S prize pool dwarfs the AOL prize pool. People in AOL also do not need to worry about dropping into Code A or even worse, out of GSL. First prize for this invitational is $9,000. While a fair amount of money, it does not even compare to the amount you get for winning Code S or other significant tournaments. Remember, professionals play to make money, but to think that they prepare the same under vastly different circumstances seems a bit naive. I still don't understand the reasoning, unless you think the skill level is proportional with the prizepool. So what happen when they train ? No money so no skill used in training ? This is a extreme example so you understand that this reasoning is just theorycraft and doesn't apply in reality. They don't prepare builds, I can get that (but even that is theorycrafting, I mean, they play 12 hours a day, tomorrow they have to face 4 opponents, what do you think they'll do today ? What do you think the coach is doing ?) Not showing their "secret" builds, that I agree. But being sloppy ? Hell no. Unless they don't take it seriously at all and party the night before and haven't slept before their game, or unless they're drunk or stoned, or unless they're watching TV while playing, I don't see how "not taking seriously" a tournament could induce sloppiness. Try to define what you mean by "not taking seriously", and try to actually and concretely put words on how and why it'll affect their play, then you'll see that this concept is pure theorycraft. You fail to see how not preparing as much and not focusing as much could lead to being sloppy? Well then. Being less focused or not practicing as seriously is exactly what leads good players to play sloppily, aside from pressure and nerves. Not much pressure at all for this tournament. Let me give you an example. Let's say you're a college student (that's your only job). In the first exam, you don't get anything unless you score a 90 or above, and there is no negative consequence even if you fail the exam. For the second exam, you can get a great reward by doing well (a 90 or above) and still a decent reward by scoring an 80-90, but if you happen to score less than an 80 you are dropped into a remedial class with essentially no rewards, and the possibility that you will be kicked out of school for the rest of the semester. Are you honestly going to spend 10 hours a day studying for both exams? Are you really going to put the same amount of effort into both? I would agree pros want to win as many games as possible, but I do not agree that things like Prize Pool and other facts (like potentially being kicked out of GSL) do not motivate players to practice more, focus harder, etc. I don't get it..... are you arguing that they stop practicing as hard before this tournament?? I can assure you that starcraft pro's, especially koreans, usually practice every day all day no matter if they have upcoming tournament matches or not. What are you trying to say? How would their practice be any different? Your analogy didn't clear up anything, made your point more convoluted actually. And you say prize pool effects your focus like the bigger the pool the more focus. Idk how that applies here tho.... players are always as focused as they are capable of. You think if they could just focus more cause of how bad they want it? Then no one would ever lose in Code S and they'd all be named MVP. They don't practice/prepare as hard because they can't. One, they just found out the groups a few days ago. Two, they can't train for everyone. In Code S you get weeks to prepare for an opponent. And yes, prize pool does affect focus. Players aren't "always as focused as they are capable of". Ask any player and they'll tell you they lose focus sometimes, especially during unimportant matches.
Ok, so I guess every single Korean who goes to MLG is "not taking the tournament seriously" by your (and other above) standards.
You can't practice for an opponent.
You don't know your opponents.
The prizepool is smaller at MLG.
And you're totally tired most of the time.
Please people, compare "korean playing in foreigner tournaments" to this. Why would Korean play better at MLG than at this ? And I'm sure most of you never thought about Korean not taking MLG seriously.
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On November 05 2011 17:35 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 17:20 Kiyo. wrote:On November 05 2011 16:58 Probasaur wrote:On November 05 2011 16:52 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:42 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 16:17 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:07 Techno wrote:On November 05 2011 16:06 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 15:54 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 15:52 Zalithian wrote:
Seems like none of the players take AOL very seriously. I really would like to know the rationale of this. You think Leenock said to himself : "I don't take this tourney seriously lol, so I'll lose to 3 hellions when even in ladder I defend that in my sleep". He just fucked up, explain which part of "taking seriously" would change anything to what happened (unless he played drunk or stoned, in that case yeah, you can say that) Have you been watching much AOL? Almost all the games are uncharacteristically sloppy. So many dumb mistakes by a lot of players. I doubt there is much room to argue that people take AOL as seriously as Code S. Seems like AOL is more for fun in the players view than Code S. I certainly don't have inside information on how they prepare for AOL vs Code S, but based on the gameplay I don't think it is an unreasonable assumption. Whatever helps you sleep at night, dude. Frankly, I think everyone knows that every professional player wants to win every single game (s)he plays. You really think every pro puts in maximum effort and focus into every game/tourney they play? There is much less on the line in this invitational than there is for Code S. The Code S prize pool dwarfs the AOL prize pool. People in AOL also do not need to worry about dropping into Code A or even worse, out of GSL. First prize for this invitational is $9,000. While a fair amount of money, it does not even compare to the amount you get for winning Code S or other significant tournaments. Remember, professionals play to make money, but to think that they prepare the same under vastly different circumstances seems a bit naive. I still don't understand the reasoning, unless you think the skill level is proportional with the prizepool. So what happen when they train ? No money so no skill used in training ? This is a extreme example so you understand that this reasoning is just theorycraft and doesn't apply in reality. They don't prepare builds, I can get that (but even that is theorycrafting, I mean, they play 12 hours a day, tomorrow they have to face 4 opponents, what do you think they'll do today ? What do you think the coach is doing ?) Not showing their "secret" builds, that I agree. But being sloppy ? Hell no. Unless they don't take it seriously at all and party the night before and haven't slept before their game, or unless they're drunk or stoned, or unless they're watching TV while playing, I don't see how "not taking seriously" a tournament could induce sloppiness. Try to define what you mean by "not taking seriously", and try to actually and concretely put words on how and why it'll affect their play, then you'll see that this concept is pure theorycraft. You fail to see how not preparing as much and not focusing as much could lead to being sloppy? Well then. Being less focused or not practicing as seriously is exactly what leads good players to play sloppily, aside from pressure and nerves. Not much pressure at all for this tournament. Let me give you an example. Let's say you're a college student (that's your only job). In the first exam, you don't get anything unless you score a 90 or above, and there is no negative consequence even if you fail the exam. For the second exam, you can get a great reward by doing well (a 90 or above) and still a decent reward by scoring an 80-90, but if you happen to score less than an 80 you are dropped into a remedial class with essentially no rewards, and the possibility that you will be kicked out of school for the rest of the semester. Are you honestly going to spend 10 hours a day studying for both exams? Are you really going to put the same amount of effort into both? I would agree pros want to win as many games as possible, but I do not agree that things like Prize Pool and other facts (like potentially being kicked out of GSL) do not motivate players to practice more, focus harder, etc. I don't get it..... are you arguing that they stop practicing as hard before this tournament?? I can assure you that starcraft pro's, especially koreans, usually practice every day all day no matter if they have upcoming tournament matches or not. What are you trying to say? How would their practice be any different? Your analogy didn't clear up anything, made your point more convoluted actually. And you say prize pool effects your focus like the bigger the pool the more focus. Idk how that applies here tho.... players are always as focused as they are capable of. You think if they could just focus more cause of how bad they want it? Then no one would ever lose in Code S and they'd all be named MVP. They don't practice/prepare as hard because they can't. One, they just found out the groups a few days ago. Two, they can't train for everyone. In Code S you get weeks to prepare for an opponent. And yes, prize pool does affect focus. Players aren't "always as focused as they are capable of". Ask any player and they'll tell you they lose focus sometimes, especially during unimportant matches. Ok, so I guess every single Korean who goes to MLG is "not taking the tournament seriously" by your (and other above) standards. You can't practice for an opponent. You don't know your opponents. And you're totally tired most of the time. Please people, compare "korean playing in foreigner tournaments" to this. Why would Korean play better at MLG than at this ?
Because there are hundreds of fans cheering for them and they travel pretty far for that. While this Tournament is played from their own home.
Edit: wtf? Last match is not going to be played? Even if it doesnt matter it kinda sucks since I tuned in for that exact match. 
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On November 05 2011 17:35 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 17:20 Kiyo. wrote:On November 05 2011 16:58 Probasaur wrote:On November 05 2011 16:52 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:42 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 16:17 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:07 Techno wrote:On November 05 2011 16:06 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 15:54 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 15:52 Zalithian wrote:
Seems like none of the players take AOL very seriously. I really would like to know the rationale of this. You think Leenock said to himself : "I don't take this tourney seriously lol, so I'll lose to 3 hellions when even in ladder I defend that in my sleep". He just fucked up, explain which part of "taking seriously" would change anything to what happened (unless he played drunk or stoned, in that case yeah, you can say that) Have you been watching much AOL? Almost all the games are uncharacteristically sloppy. So many dumb mistakes by a lot of players. I doubt there is much room to argue that people take AOL as seriously as Code S. Seems like AOL is more for fun in the players view than Code S. I certainly don't have inside information on how they prepare for AOL vs Code S, but based on the gameplay I don't think it is an unreasonable assumption. Whatever helps you sleep at night, dude. Frankly, I think everyone knows that every professional player wants to win every single game (s)he plays. You really think every pro puts in maximum effort and focus into every game/tourney they play? There is much less on the line in this invitational than there is for Code S. The Code S prize pool dwarfs the AOL prize pool. People in AOL also do not need to worry about dropping into Code A or even worse, out of GSL. First prize for this invitational is $9,000. While a fair amount of money, it does not even compare to the amount you get for winning Code S or other significant tournaments. Remember, professionals play to make money, but to think that they prepare the same under vastly different circumstances seems a bit naive. I still don't understand the reasoning, unless you think the skill level is proportional with the prizepool. So what happen when they train ? No money so no skill used in training ? This is a extreme example so you understand that this reasoning is just theorycraft and doesn't apply in reality. They don't prepare builds, I can get that (but even that is theorycrafting, I mean, they play 12 hours a day, tomorrow they have to face 4 opponents, what do you think they'll do today ? What do you think the coach is doing ?) Not showing their "secret" builds, that I agree. But being sloppy ? Hell no. Unless they don't take it seriously at all and party the night before and haven't slept before their game, or unless they're drunk or stoned, or unless they're watching TV while playing, I don't see how "not taking seriously" a tournament could induce sloppiness. Try to define what you mean by "not taking seriously", and try to actually and concretely put words on how and why it'll affect their play, then you'll see that this concept is pure theorycraft. You fail to see how not preparing as much and not focusing as much could lead to being sloppy? Well then. Being less focused or not practicing as seriously is exactly what leads good players to play sloppily, aside from pressure and nerves. Not much pressure at all for this tournament. Let me give you an example. Let's say you're a college student (that's your only job). In the first exam, you don't get anything unless you score a 90 or above, and there is no negative consequence even if you fail the exam. For the second exam, you can get a great reward by doing well (a 90 or above) and still a decent reward by scoring an 80-90, but if you happen to score less than an 80 you are dropped into a remedial class with essentially no rewards, and the possibility that you will be kicked out of school for the rest of the semester. Are you honestly going to spend 10 hours a day studying for both exams? Are you really going to put the same amount of effort into both? I would agree pros want to win as many games as possible, but I do not agree that things like Prize Pool and other facts (like potentially being kicked out of GSL) do not motivate players to practice more, focus harder, etc. I don't get it..... are you arguing that they stop practicing as hard before this tournament?? I can assure you that starcraft pro's, especially koreans, usually practice every day all day no matter if they have upcoming tournament matches or not. What are you trying to say? How would their practice be any different? Your analogy didn't clear up anything, made your point more convoluted actually. And you say prize pool effects your focus like the bigger the pool the more focus. Idk how that applies here tho.... players are always as focused as they are capable of. You think if they could just focus more cause of how bad they want it? Then no one would ever lose in Code S and they'd all be named MVP. They don't practice/prepare as hard because they can't. One, they just found out the groups a few days ago. Two, they can't train for everyone. In Code S you get weeks to prepare for an opponent. And yes, prize pool does affect focus. Players aren't "always as focused as they are capable of". Ask any player and they'll tell you they lose focus sometimes, especially during unimportant matches. Ok, so I guess every single Korean who goes to MLG is "not taking the tournament seriously" by your (and other above) standards. You can't practice for an opponent. You don't know your opponents. The prizepool is smaller at MLG. And you're totally tired most of the time. Please people, compare "korean playing in foreigner tournaments" to this. Why would Korean play better at MLG than at this ?
It costs thousands of dollars to send a Korean to a foreign event. That seems like a good enough reason to take it seriously, not to mention they are LAN events and not online events like AOL. Good points above as well. No crowd or anything either.
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On November 05 2011 17:35 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 17:20 Kiyo. wrote:On November 05 2011 16:58 Probasaur wrote:On November 05 2011 16:52 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:42 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 16:17 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:07 Techno wrote:On November 05 2011 16:06 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 15:54 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 15:52 Zalithian wrote:
Seems like none of the players take AOL very seriously. I really would like to know the rationale of this. You think Leenock said to himself : "I don't take this tourney seriously lol, so I'll lose to 3 hellions when even in ladder I defend that in my sleep". He just fucked up, explain which part of "taking seriously" would change anything to what happened (unless he played drunk or stoned, in that case yeah, you can say that) Have you been watching much AOL? Almost all the games are uncharacteristically sloppy. So many dumb mistakes by a lot of players. I doubt there is much room to argue that people take AOL as seriously as Code S. Seems like AOL is more for fun in the players view than Code S. I certainly don't have inside information on how they prepare for AOL vs Code S, but based on the gameplay I don't think it is an unreasonable assumption. Whatever helps you sleep at night, dude. Frankly, I think everyone knows that every professional player wants to win every single game (s)he plays. You really think every pro puts in maximum effort and focus into every game/tourney they play? There is much less on the line in this invitational than there is for Code S. The Code S prize pool dwarfs the AOL prize pool. People in AOL also do not need to worry about dropping into Code A or even worse, out of GSL. First prize for this invitational is $9,000. While a fair amount of money, it does not even compare to the amount you get for winning Code S or other significant tournaments. Remember, professionals play to make money, but to think that they prepare the same under vastly different circumstances seems a bit naive. I still don't understand the reasoning, unless you think the skill level is proportional with the prizepool. So what happen when they train ? No money so no skill used in training ? This is a extreme example so you understand that this reasoning is just theorycraft and doesn't apply in reality. They don't prepare builds, I can get that (but even that is theorycrafting, I mean, they play 12 hours a day, tomorrow they have to face 4 opponents, what do you think they'll do today ? What do you think the coach is doing ?) Not showing their "secret" builds, that I agree. But being sloppy ? Hell no. Unless they don't take it seriously at all and party the night before and haven't slept before their game, or unless they're drunk or stoned, or unless they're watching TV while playing, I don't see how "not taking seriously" a tournament could induce sloppiness. Try to define what you mean by "not taking seriously", and try to actually and concretely put words on how and why it'll affect their play, then you'll see that this concept is pure theorycraft. You fail to see how not preparing as much and not focusing as much could lead to being sloppy? Well then. Being less focused or not practicing as seriously is exactly what leads good players to play sloppily, aside from pressure and nerves. Not much pressure at all for this tournament. Let me give you an example. Let's say you're a college student (that's your only job). In the first exam, you don't get anything unless you score a 90 or above, and there is no negative consequence even if you fail the exam. For the second exam, you can get a great reward by doing well (a 90 or above) and still a decent reward by scoring an 80-90, but if you happen to score less than an 80 you are dropped into a remedial class with essentially no rewards, and the possibility that you will be kicked out of school for the rest of the semester. Are you honestly going to spend 10 hours a day studying for both exams? Are you really going to put the same amount of effort into both? I would agree pros want to win as many games as possible, but I do not agree that things like Prize Pool and other facts (like potentially being kicked out of GSL) do not motivate players to practice more, focus harder, etc. I don't get it..... are you arguing that they stop practicing as hard before this tournament?? I can assure you that starcraft pro's, especially koreans, usually practice every day all day no matter if they have upcoming tournament matches or not. What are you trying to say? How would their practice be any different? Your analogy didn't clear up anything, made your point more convoluted actually. And you say prize pool effects your focus like the bigger the pool the more focus. Idk how that applies here tho.... players are always as focused as they are capable of. You think if they could just focus more cause of how bad they want it? Then no one would ever lose in Code S and they'd all be named MVP. They don't practice/prepare as hard because they can't. One, they just found out the groups a few days ago. Two, they can't train for everyone. In Code S you get weeks to prepare for an opponent. And yes, prize pool does affect focus. Players aren't "always as focused as they are capable of". Ask any player and they'll tell you they lose focus sometimes, especially during unimportant matches. Ok, so I guess every single Korean who goes to MLG is "not taking the tournament seriously" by your (and other above) standards. You can't practice for an opponent. You don't know your opponents. The prizepool is smaller at MLG. And you're totally tired most of the time. Please people, compare "korean playing in foreigner tournaments" to this. Why would Korean play better at MLG than at this ?
When did I say they were "not taking the tournament seriously"? I just said they're less focused and less motivated to train/practice hard for it. MLG is different because it's a LAN tournament where you interact with your opponents(which naturally makes you want to beat them more) and because of Korean pride. When you're playing against foreigners, representing your country, you're probably more motivated to try hard. Also, MLG points are worth something unlike this tournament. It got a lot of Koreans qualified for Providence which has a much larger prize pool.
edit: Oh... and the Code S spot.
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On November 05 2011 17:37 MrKn4rz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 17:35 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 17:20 Kiyo. wrote:On November 05 2011 16:58 Probasaur wrote:On November 05 2011 16:52 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:42 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 16:17 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:07 Techno wrote:On November 05 2011 16:06 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 15:54 MrCon wrote:
[quote]
I really would like to know the rationale of this.
You think Leenock said to himself : "I don't take this tourney seriously lol, so I'll lose to 3 hellions when even in ladder I defend that in my sleep". He just fucked up, explain which part of "taking seriously" would change anything to what happened (unless he played drunk or stoned, in that case yeah, you can say that) Have you been watching much AOL? Almost all the games are uncharacteristically sloppy. So many dumb mistakes by a lot of players. I doubt there is much room to argue that people take AOL as seriously as Code S. Seems like AOL is more for fun in the players view than Code S. I certainly don't have inside information on how they prepare for AOL vs Code S, but based on the gameplay I don't think it is an unreasonable assumption. Whatever helps you sleep at night, dude. Frankly, I think everyone knows that every professional player wants to win every single game (s)he plays. You really think every pro puts in maximum effort and focus into every game/tourney they play? There is much less on the line in this invitational than there is for Code S. The Code S prize pool dwarfs the AOL prize pool. People in AOL also do not need to worry about dropping into Code A or even worse, out of GSL. First prize for this invitational is $9,000. While a fair amount of money, it does not even compare to the amount you get for winning Code S or other significant tournaments. Remember, professionals play to make money, but to think that they prepare the same under vastly different circumstances seems a bit naive. I still don't understand the reasoning, unless you think the skill level is proportional with the prizepool. So what happen when they train ? No money so no skill used in training ? This is a extreme example so you understand that this reasoning is just theorycraft and doesn't apply in reality. They don't prepare builds, I can get that (but even that is theorycrafting, I mean, they play 12 hours a day, tomorrow they have to face 4 opponents, what do you think they'll do today ? What do you think the coach is doing ?) Not showing their "secret" builds, that I agree. But being sloppy ? Hell no. Unless they don't take it seriously at all and party the night before and haven't slept before their game, or unless they're drunk or stoned, or unless they're watching TV while playing, I don't see how "not taking seriously" a tournament could induce sloppiness. Try to define what you mean by "not taking seriously", and try to actually and concretely put words on how and why it'll affect their play, then you'll see that this concept is pure theorycraft. You fail to see how not preparing as much and not focusing as much could lead to being sloppy? Well then. Being less focused or not practicing as seriously is exactly what leads good players to play sloppily, aside from pressure and nerves. Not much pressure at all for this tournament. Let me give you an example. Let's say you're a college student (that's your only job). In the first exam, you don't get anything unless you score a 90 or above, and there is no negative consequence even if you fail the exam. For the second exam, you can get a great reward by doing well (a 90 or above) and still a decent reward by scoring an 80-90, but if you happen to score less than an 80 you are dropped into a remedial class with essentially no rewards, and the possibility that you will be kicked out of school for the rest of the semester. Are you honestly going to spend 10 hours a day studying for both exams? Are you really going to put the same amount of effort into both? I would agree pros want to win as many games as possible, but I do not agree that things like Prize Pool and other facts (like potentially being kicked out of GSL) do not motivate players to practice more, focus harder, etc. I don't get it..... are you arguing that they stop practicing as hard before this tournament?? I can assure you that starcraft pro's, especially koreans, usually practice every day all day no matter if they have upcoming tournament matches or not. What are you trying to say? How would their practice be any different? Your analogy didn't clear up anything, made your point more convoluted actually. And you say prize pool effects your focus like the bigger the pool the more focus. Idk how that applies here tho.... players are always as focused as they are capable of. You think if they could just focus more cause of how bad they want it? Then no one would ever lose in Code S and they'd all be named MVP. They don't practice/prepare as hard because they can't. One, they just found out the groups a few days ago. Two, they can't train for everyone. In Code S you get weeks to prepare for an opponent. And yes, prize pool does affect focus. Players aren't "always as focused as they are capable of". Ask any player and they'll tell you they lose focus sometimes, especially during unimportant matches. Ok, so I guess every single Korean who goes to MLG is "not taking the tournament seriously" by your (and other above) standards. You can't practice for an opponent. You don't know your opponents. And you're totally tired most of the time. Please people, compare "korean playing in foreigner tournaments" to this. Why would Korean play better at MLG than at this ? Because there are hundreds of fans cheering for them and they travel pretty far for that. While this Tournament is played from their own home.
Ok that's a good point.
So the lack of fans is the reason why they don't take this tourney seriously, this is the conclusion.
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On November 05 2011 17:41 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 17:37 MrKn4rz wrote:On November 05 2011 17:35 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 17:20 Kiyo. wrote:On November 05 2011 16:58 Probasaur wrote:On November 05 2011 16:52 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:42 MrCon wrote:On November 05 2011 16:17 Zalithian wrote:On November 05 2011 16:07 Techno wrote:On November 05 2011 16:06 Zalithian wrote:
[quote]
Have you been watching much AOL? Almost all the games are uncharacteristically sloppy. So many dumb mistakes by a lot of players. I doubt there is much room to argue that people take AOL as seriously as Code S. Seems like AOL is more for fun in the players view than Code S. I certainly don't have inside information on how they prepare for AOL vs Code S, but based on the gameplay I don't think it is an unreasonable assumption. Whatever helps you sleep at night, dude. Frankly, I think everyone knows that every professional player wants to win every single game (s)he plays. You really think every pro puts in maximum effort and focus into every game/tourney they play? There is much less on the line in this invitational than there is for Code S. The Code S prize pool dwarfs the AOL prize pool. People in AOL also do not need to worry about dropping into Code A or even worse, out of GSL. First prize for this invitational is $9,000. While a fair amount of money, it does not even compare to the amount you get for winning Code S or other significant tournaments. Remember, professionals play to make money, but to think that they prepare the same under vastly different circumstances seems a bit naive. I still don't understand the reasoning, unless you think the skill level is proportional with the prizepool. So what happen when they train ? No money so no skill used in training ? This is a extreme example so you understand that this reasoning is just theorycraft and doesn't apply in reality. They don't prepare builds, I can get that (but even that is theorycrafting, I mean, they play 12 hours a day, tomorrow they have to face 4 opponents, what do you think they'll do today ? What do you think the coach is doing ?) Not showing their "secret" builds, that I agree. But being sloppy ? Hell no. Unless they don't take it seriously at all and party the night before and haven't slept before their game, or unless they're drunk or stoned, or unless they're watching TV while playing, I don't see how "not taking seriously" a tournament could induce sloppiness. Try to define what you mean by "not taking seriously", and try to actually and concretely put words on how and why it'll affect their play, then you'll see that this concept is pure theorycraft. You fail to see how not preparing as much and not focusing as much could lead to being sloppy? Well then. Being less focused or not practicing as seriously is exactly what leads good players to play sloppily, aside from pressure and nerves. Not much pressure at all for this tournament. Let me give you an example. Let's say you're a college student (that's your only job). In the first exam, you don't get anything unless you score a 90 or above, and there is no negative consequence even if you fail the exam. For the second exam, you can get a great reward by doing well (a 90 or above) and still a decent reward by scoring an 80-90, but if you happen to score less than an 80 you are dropped into a remedial class with essentially no rewards, and the possibility that you will be kicked out of school for the rest of the semester. Are you honestly going to spend 10 hours a day studying for both exams? Are you really going to put the same amount of effort into both? I would agree pros want to win as many games as possible, but I do not agree that things like Prize Pool and other facts (like potentially being kicked out of GSL) do not motivate players to practice more, focus harder, etc. I don't get it..... are you arguing that they stop practicing as hard before this tournament?? I can assure you that starcraft pro's, especially koreans, usually practice every day all day no matter if they have upcoming tournament matches or not. What are you trying to say? How would their practice be any different? Your analogy didn't clear up anything, made your point more convoluted actually. And you say prize pool effects your focus like the bigger the pool the more focus. Idk how that applies here tho.... players are always as focused as they are capable of. You think if they could just focus more cause of how bad they want it? Then no one would ever lose in Code S and they'd all be named MVP. They don't practice/prepare as hard because they can't. One, they just found out the groups a few days ago. Two, they can't train for everyone. In Code S you get weeks to prepare for an opponent. And yes, prize pool does affect focus. Players aren't "always as focused as they are capable of". Ask any player and they'll tell you they lose focus sometimes, especially during unimportant matches. Ok, so I guess every single Korean who goes to MLG is "not taking the tournament seriously" by your (and other above) standards. You can't practice for an opponent. You don't know your opponents. And you're totally tired most of the time. Please people, compare "korean playing in foreigner tournaments" to this. Why would Korean play better at MLG than at this ? Because there are hundreds of fans cheering for them and they travel pretty far for that. While this Tournament is played from their own home. Ok that's a good point. So the lack of fans is the reason why they don't take this tourney seriously, this is the conclusion.
Same as above poster. Nobody said they are not taking it seriously.
Also you cant really judge from a couple Bo1s.
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Train/practice hard for it? I guarantee you they practice JUST AS HARD as they do for any tournament. The only difference there might be in their play is when it comes to the actual games, and thats because being at a big LAN or on TV in a booth for Code S or Code A is that when you're at home you aren't nervous as all hell and can focus BETTER. You guys keep making the point that higher the stakes the more they focus when in reality its more likely harder to focus when more is on the line and you have it in the back of your head how important the games are. When the stakes are lower you aren't under as much pressure allowing you to focus more.
The only thing you can say is that for Code S (not group stages) they can practice for that specific opponent and yeah some of them do, but we also hear a lot of them don't even do that they just practice against the race not the player. I'm sure they do the same thing for smaller tournaments as well. You gotta remember their coaches are there every day keeping them focused, their job is to help them prepare for tournamentS.
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On November 05 2011 17:46 Probasaur wrote:
Train/practice hard for it? I guarantee you they practice JUST AS HARD as they do for any tournament. The only difference there might be in their play is when it comes to the actual games, and thats because being at a big LAN or on TV in a booth for Code S or Code A is that when you're at home you aren't nervous as all hell and can focus BETTER. You guys keep making the point that higher the stakes the more they focus when in reality its more likely harder to focus when more is on the line and you have it in the back of your head how important the games are.
How would you know that? Have you played for huge amount of money before or even competed infront of an Audience. It actually differs from person to person so you cant really say that.
In fact I did compete in a couple Skateboard Tournaments before infront of an Audience of around 100 people and I was able to do my absoulte best BECAUSE I was so nervous/excited. But well that is just my experience.
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On November 05 2011 17:31 Probasaur wrote:
Facepalm moment for Khaldor. "Great scan for the Terran player's opponent." Thats why you LEARN THEIR FUCKIN NAMES DUDE!! My god he really urks me.... stop being stupid Khaldor youre being paid to do this you can learn their names. Or do you just like saying Terran player/Zerg player/ Protoss player that much you even say it during a TvT???
You dont really get that I did that on purpose so I would not repeat the players name for the 10th time in a row, did you? ^^ Try to keep up please  it just sounds stupid as hell if you repeat their names OVER and OVER again. Thats why one says things like that or "the red terran". But hey, always happy to help ^^
Thanks guys for tuning in today, hope the rest of you enjoyed the show! DoA and Wolf will bring you Group D tomorrow to determine the last two players who advance to the round of 8!!
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On November 05 2011 17:59 Khaldor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 17:31 Probasaur wrote:
Facepalm moment for Khaldor. "Great scan for the Terran player's opponent." Thats why you LEARN THEIR FUCKIN NAMES DUDE!! My god he really urks me.... stop being stupid Khaldor youre being paid to do this you can learn their names. Or do you just like saying Terran player/Zerg player/ Protoss player that much you even say it during a TvT??? You dont really get that I did that on purpose so I would not repeat the players name for the 10th time in a row, did you? ^^ Try to keep up please it just sounds stupid as hell if you repeat their names OVER and OVER again. Thats why one says things like that or "the red terran". But hey, always happy to help ^^ Thanks guys for tuning in today, hope the rest of you enjoyed the show! DoA and Wolf will bring you Group D tomorrow to determine the last two players who advance to the round of 8!!
I think most people agree that you've been awesome the last couple of days Khaldor. Don't listen to the idiots out there.
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Thanks  I have to admit that I was really surprised by all the positive feedback that I got from you guys the last few days! I was expecting a lot more hate to be honest ^^ Thank you very much and I'll do my best to further improve my casting. Staying at the GOM House and talking to pro players will definitely help me on that as well!
Need to improve my english as well, right now I have some phrases that I still use way to often while casting. But I'll make sure to improve on those points! Thanks for the support!
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37096 Posts
Guys quick question regarding the GSL:
If my friend and I were to split the cost of a ticket, would we both be able to watch the GSL?
Sorry for asking this kind of question but we're kind of desperate right now :[
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On November 05 2011 18:45 Seeker wrote:
Guys quick question regarding the GSL:
If my friend and I were to split the cost of a ticket, would we both be able to watch the GSL?
Sorry for asking this kind of question but we're kind of desperate right now :[
VOD's yes, Live Stream no. Should support GOM and both get a ticket though. $5 is basically a mcdonald's meal or a coffee from starbucks.
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Really nice initiative, keep it up!
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Am I the only one who's extremely disappointed that Moletrap and Khaldor are using a monitor where they can't see part of the minimap (and have had to apologize for it during Group B and C as far as I can remember)? I mean, when you're casting a game of Starcraft you should have an idea of what's going on at all times. Watching the minimap is just as necessary for a caster as a player, because you need to know what's going on at all times, and not being able to see part of it is just unacceptable.
I'm not even sure who should get the bulk of the blame for this, either. Moletrap and Khaldor for not telling GOM they had an issue seeing the minimap? GOM for not fixing it when the casters have mentioned it multiple times? If I remember correctly (I probably don't, but I'll try) Tastosis had an issue in one of the earlier GSLs where their monitors were setup in such a way that they couldn't see the entire screen either. Does that strike anyone else as completely ridiculous, that a Starcraft 2 tournament with as high a production value as the GSL would leave the games' casters partially blind?
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On November 06 2011 15:43 _Depression wrote:
I'm not even sure who should get the bulk of the blame for this, either. Moletrap and Khaldor for not telling GOM they had an issue seeing the minimap?
Why do you assume we didn't mention that? Of course we did. Unfortunately it doesn't seem possible to fix that problem at the moment. So right now there's nothing we can do about it.
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On November 06 2011 19:00 Khaldor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 15:43 _Depression wrote:
I'm not even sure who should get the bulk of the blame for this, either. Moletrap and Khaldor for not telling GOM they had an issue seeing the minimap? Why do you assume we didn't mention that? Of course we did. Unfortunately it doesn't seem possible to fix that problem at the moment. So right now there's nothing we can do about it.
I only said that because I assumed that, had you brought up your concerns to GOM, they would proactively try to fix it. Obviously I gave them too much credit.
Either way, I still enjoy the games a lot and you and Moletrap are doing a great job even with your handicap. I just find it a little concerning that you're forced to cast the games blind. Which also begs the question - just how much of the minimap is blocked/covered on your monitor?
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American Online? :D
You've got mail.
Sweet! xD
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EPT
