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On October 12 2011 08:21 SupLilSon wrote:
It doesn't validate my point because it wasn't supposed to. I'm just saying that majority/minority has nothing to do with right/wrong or good/bad. If you think GOM doesn't care about professionalism then you are wrong. You're also wrong if you think people watch GOM because of Tastosis, no people watch GOM because the GSL offers the premium of starcraft 2 skill and competition. They could fire Tastetosis and not care because people would still tune in. Noone wants them fired, they just need to realize that they have strayed wayyy too far. Being able to fill time is of course a good thing for casters, they just need to learn to fill time with pertinent information. Maybe instead of going off on random tangents that most of the viewers can't follow, talk about other shit going on in SC2 or previous GSL matches. If you're interested in expanding E-Sports then you should be very concerned with professionalism. For an industry/sport that's hardly taken seriously by the MAJORITY of the world, you think striving for excellence would be a priority. But w/e if you want prospective viewers/ skeptics to see "the best casting duo" in SC2 talking about lollipops and obscure jokes instead of the game then w/e SC2 will always be a joke outside of this small community.
Well I guess it just comes down to taste. I think they have plenty of commentary on strategy and on the game with jokes thrown in. Nothing happens in the first 5 minutes of the game and there are slow parts through out the game and I enjoy their goofy humor to fill in the time, along with the majority of viewers and most of the potential new viewers.
You do have a good point that they should probably scale back a little, but I would have them be a little over the top but that is a ton better than if they were boring like other sports casters.
When it comes to being "professional" the most important thing is to know the game well and give good analysis, which Tastosis usually does, more so than any other casters imo. It's also important for them to be entertaining, but that is subjective and they will never please everyone.
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On October 12 2011 10:40 thepuppyassassin wrote:Did Nestea put himself on the same side of the bracket with MVP? Does that ensure that they will meet sometime before the finals, should they win their respective matches? If that is the case, he's really gotta stop. 2nd place money is much better than ro8 money, Nestea you dope.  We also would have a good GSL finals too.
If you're talking about the group selection, that's not quite how it works. It's hard to predict where everyone will end up. Also, since Nestea didn't make top 8 last season he didn't get to select his group. MMA thought he was hot shit and picked Nestea for group c. Nestea 2-0'd the group and got placed near MVP and Bomber.
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I don't even play SC2 and I'm dead sick of watching TvT lol
I actually liked the Ganzi v Supernova games today because they were so weird... but once in a while I just want to hear a zealot gargle-scream as he dies. Is that so much to ask? :D
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On October 12 2011 10:50 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 10:40 thepuppyassassin wrote:Did Nestea put himself on the same side of the bracket with MVP? Does that ensure that they will meet sometime before the finals, should they win their respective matches? If that is the case, he's really gotta stop. 2nd place money is much better than ro8 money, Nestea you dope. We also would have a good GSL finals too. If you're talking about the group selection, that's not quite how it works. It's hard to predict where everyone will end up. Also, since Nestea didn't make top 8 last season he didn't get to select his group. MMA thought he was hot shit and picked Nestea for group c. Nestea 2-0'd the group and got placed near MVP and Bomber.
Indeed.
I think now that Nestea made the RO8 again I'm sure he'll want to try and be placed as far away from MVP as possible.
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On October 12 2011 10:13 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 08:53 positron. wrote:On October 12 2011 08:42 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 12 2011 08:29 kiy0 wrote:On October 12 2011 07:40 stangstang wrote:
What? Tastosis is the best english casting duo out there. This is not really a comment. It's a blind and mindless statement deprived of interest and reasoning to support it. For all the reasons I mentioned earlier, Tastosis is not working well. They are two extremely popular and beloved figure in the e-Sports scene, but that alone doesn't make their whole case. Lack of posture and professionalism, though sometimes might give us viewers a couple of laughs, should not be accepted by the production. I myself think Artosis, when completely focused on the game, is a pretty amazing caster. He pretty much tells us what's going to happen in most games before they even happen and why. This is a quality that very, very few known casters possess. Take the first few casts with JP in the MLG Global Invitational. Those worked pretty well. I actually think the best casting duo out there at the moment (and I mean true casting duos that made a name for themselves) is TotalBiscuit and Apollo. I get TotalBiscuit lacks a bit on game knowledge and insight but to be honest he doesn't need to have it. That's exactly why Apollo is there. The chemistry these two have developed works wonders whenever they cast together because of their professional and correct posture towards every potential audience. TB brings the his emotional play-by-play while Apollo explains what is actually going on. This is how 95% of the broadcasts from any sports usually work out. This is not how Tastosis operates at all, for the reasons already noted. Anyway, the reasoning behind this criticism is, again, a most certainly desperate need for more professionalism from the casters so that E-Sports can actually make it out of Korea as a legit and culturally relevant activity worth having their up times on TV. The only way E-Sports can rise to that level is by attracting the attention of NON-Gaming fans/players. We need the dads and moms of this world to look at a couple of professional guys playing a video-game that they can recognize for their skills. We want the hardcore sports fans to think of E-Sports as a life-valuable skill like playing piano, chess, cards or whatever. And since the casters get almost 100% up time during those broadcasts, having a decent posture, imparciality, correction of speech and professionalism is the way to attract them. The expression "NesTea sucks the life out of aliens in asteroids in order to save the Earth" is not something I would like to ear if I was tuning to a cast for the first time, let alone earing the casters talk about ice cream, toothpaste and family pranks. I hear what you're saying except I find Artosis incredibly boring when he casts with JP. And that's the bottom line, the part of your "analysis" that you're completely skipping over. Tastetosis is a fun duo, they are fun YET they are incredibly knowledgable about the game and prove it when they do decide to share it. You can't make everyone happy, some nerds like to be 100% business when they're watching the games, and some nerds like to have some lighthearted commentary during the slow parts of SC games. Tastetosis delivers both. That's why they're the best. Artosis paired with anyone else just isn't as fun to listen to. Funny is money, stop trying to make it so serious that no one wants to watch it anymore.BTW. On this topic of funny. Can someone at Gom please get QXC back casting with Wolf. Those two were hilarious together. Way to misunderstood things. Obviously people are saying they are spending too much time with their, sometimes lame, jokes. The key word is too much. Nobody in the right mind doesn't like a funny caster with knowledge. Everybody knows Artosis has the knowlege. They are only asking for a better balance between analysis and humor. Who even asked for a 100% serious caster? You are arguing against points that were not even made by reasonable posters. Again, everyone's idea of what that perfect balance is is different. I personally have no problem with the balance that Tastetosis is using currently. Am I wrong? No i'm not, because it's an opinion. I don't need a play by play analysis for a 2 rax pressure build. I've seen them about 200 times in the GSL I don't need Artosis to tell me exactly what's going on. If I had to listen to Artosis explain to me what that opening was supposed to do, how it worked and how to properly counter it every game I'd probably mute the stream. They have to cater to guys with my sort of taste as well as guys like you who want more professionalism. They can't make everyone happy. I'm happy though and so are many others.
Considering all of your previous post, you continue to show a perspective from a kind of selfish point of view. Of all reasonable posters in here, the major talk has been about how the casting expertise affects the growth of E-Sports. And for this matter, opinions from the crowd that is already an E-Sports fan are widely irrelevant. We want to attract the "others".
Like you said, you as a SC2 fan don't need to be guided throw a 2 raxx pressure. But a potential newcomer might need a couple of hints. And I'm sure that knowing what were Artosis favorite games on the NES won't be much of a help.
It's only natural for long time viewers to develop a connection with the "faces" of the broadcast. And since your game knowledge is more than elementar, I can understand that people might enjoy a parade of jokes to keep them entertained. But once again, this is was never the point of the discussion.
As many people have pointed out, the "chit-chats" are what Tastosis is nowadays. It's should be a concern for GOM when people purchase a GSL ticket because the casting duo for the english stream consists of a couple of guys that tell amazing stories and are bias towards certain players instead of focusing on actually talking about SC2. A national TV live broadcast about E-Sports is not the proper place to do it, even if people consider it entertaining. This is what "we" mean by being professional.
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I don't know why people are making such a big deal about the growth of e-sports. Part of why I love SC2 is because I can have a few good laughs while watching a tournament. If we need to give up those kind of things to grow then I'm not really sure if I want e-sports to be huge.
Also, nobody seems to notice, but there's always a lot of more people complaining than people defending the casters. Like when code GSTL comes on and some people say "Not doa and moletrap, I really wanted tastosis!", but yet these same people never show up to defend them in topics like this one. I'm not saying tastosis needs to be defended by every fan who's out there, but my point is: while the people who complain are a lot more vocal than the people who don't, I still think you who are complaining are a minority, and oh well, you can't please everyone.
Edit: Just to make myself clear: I don't have any problem with people who think artosis should take it easy with his fanboyism over nestea, I think bias should be kept down to a minimum too.
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I enjoy Wolf casting more than Tastosis nowadays. And while I'm in the minority, I don't think I'm alone.
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On October 12 2011 10:55 kiy0 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 10:13 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 12 2011 08:53 positron. wrote:On October 12 2011 08:42 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 12 2011 08:29 kiy0 wrote:On October 12 2011 07:40 stangstang wrote:
What? Tastosis is the best english casting duo out there. This is not really a comment. It's a blind and mindless statement deprived of interest and reasoning to support it. For all the reasons I mentioned earlier, Tastosis is not working well. They are two extremely popular and beloved figure in the e-Sports scene, but that alone doesn't make their whole case. Lack of posture and professionalism, though sometimes might give us viewers a couple of laughs, should not be accepted by the production. I myself think Artosis, when completely focused on the game, is a pretty amazing caster. He pretty much tells us what's going to happen in most games before they even happen and why. This is a quality that very, very few known casters possess. Take the first few casts with JP in the MLG Global Invitational. Those worked pretty well. I actually think the best casting duo out there at the moment (and I mean true casting duos that made a name for themselves) is TotalBiscuit and Apollo. I get TotalBiscuit lacks a bit on game knowledge and insight but to be honest he doesn't need to have it. That's exactly why Apollo is there. The chemistry these two have developed works wonders whenever they cast together because of their professional and correct posture towards every potential audience. TB brings the his emotional play-by-play while Apollo explains what is actually going on. This is how 95% of the broadcasts from any sports usually work out. This is not how Tastosis operates at all, for the reasons already noted. Anyway, the reasoning behind this criticism is, again, a most certainly desperate need for more professionalism from the casters so that E-Sports can actually make it out of Korea as a legit and culturally relevant activity worth having their up times on TV. The only way E-Sports can rise to that level is by attracting the attention of NON-Gaming fans/players. We need the dads and moms of this world to look at a couple of professional guys playing a video-game that they can recognize for their skills. We want the hardcore sports fans to think of E-Sports as a life-valuable skill like playing piano, chess, cards or whatever. And since the casters get almost 100% up time during those broadcasts, having a decent posture, imparciality, correction of speech and professionalism is the way to attract them. The expression "NesTea sucks the life out of aliens in asteroids in order to save the Earth" is not something I would like to ear if I was tuning to a cast for the first time, let alone earing the casters talk about ice cream, toothpaste and family pranks. I hear what you're saying except I find Artosis incredibly boring when he casts with JP. And that's the bottom line, the part of your "analysis" that you're completely skipping over. Tastetosis is a fun duo, they are fun YET they are incredibly knowledgable about the game and prove it when they do decide to share it. You can't make everyone happy, some nerds like to be 100% business when they're watching the games, and some nerds like to have some lighthearted commentary during the slow parts of SC games. Tastetosis delivers both. That's why they're the best. Artosis paired with anyone else just isn't as fun to listen to. Funny is money, stop trying to make it so serious that no one wants to watch it anymore.BTW. On this topic of funny. Can someone at Gom please get QXC back casting with Wolf. Those two were hilarious together. Way to misunderstood things. Obviously people are saying they are spending too much time with their, sometimes lame, jokes. The key word is too much. Nobody in the right mind doesn't like a funny caster with knowledge. Everybody knows Artosis has the knowlege. They are only asking for a better balance between analysis and humor. Who even asked for a 100% serious caster? You are arguing against points that were not even made by reasonable posters. Again, everyone's idea of what that perfect balance is is different. I personally have no problem with the balance that Tastetosis is using currently. Am I wrong? No i'm not, because it's an opinion. I don't need a play by play analysis for a 2 rax pressure build. I've seen them about 200 times in the GSL I don't need Artosis to tell me exactly what's going on. If I had to listen to Artosis explain to me what that opening was supposed to do, how it worked and how to properly counter it every game I'd probably mute the stream. They have to cater to guys with my sort of taste as well as guys like you who want more professionalism. They can't make everyone happy. I'm happy though and so are many others. Considering all of your previous post, you continue to show a perspective from a kind of selfish point of view. Of all reasonable posters in here, the major talk has been about how the casting expertise affects the growth of E-Sports. And for this matter, opinions from the crowd that is already an E-Sports fan are widely irrelevant. We want to attract the "others". Like you said, you as a SC2 fan don't need to be guided throw a 2 raxx pressure. But a potential newcomer might need a couple of hints. And I'm sure that knowing what were Artosis favorite games on the NES won't be much of a help. It's only natural for long time viewers to develop a connection with the "faces" of the broadcast. And since your game knowledge is more than elementar, I can understand that people might enjoy a parade of jokes to keep them entertained. But once again, this is was never the point of the discussion. As many people have pointed out, the "chit-chats" are what Tastosis is nowadays. It's should be a concern for GOM when people purchase a GSL ticket because the casting duo for the english stream consists of a couple of guys that tell amazing stories and are bias towards certain players instead of focusing on actually talking about SC2. A national TV live broadcast about E-Sports is not the proper place to do it, even if people consider it entertaining. This is what "we" mean by being professional.
I do care about the growth of e-sports but I think one of the easiest ways to discourage newcomers from watching is if we kill the fun of the broadcast with overly serious casters. With Tastetosis it feels like a little party whenever I watch them, if others that aren't as familiar with SC2 are watching they can be unfamiliar with the material yet still grasp the fun factor and enjoy it.
New comers aren't going to care too much about the accuracies of the analysis because they don't know any better. First and foremost someone who's new to e-sports wants to be convinced that they're fun. Tastetosis delivers on that. It's only people who have been playing for as long as I have that care if there's any analysis on the side that's worth remembering. People who don't play the game don't care about the analysis, as long as everyone's understanding at least what's actually happening in the game I think the rest can be humor and we're fine.
My overall point is that whether you're a veteran like me or a newcomer, Tastetosis delivers entertainment first and foremost. Their analysis is solid when it's present but it's not overbearing.
I like their style, and my friends that don't watch much e-sports seem to enjoy them more than other casters but that could just be because I like them.
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On October 12 2011 10:17 blade55555 wrote:
Belshir which is 14-17 favoring zerg so slightly zerg favored (even though NO map is going to be 50/50)
Metalopolis is 30-24 favoring Terran.
Day break 12-18 favoring zerg
Taldarim 42-26 favoring terran
Dual sight 30-27 favoring terran.
Have you seen Dual Sight's stats when you take out DRG's games? Just wanted to point out that bit of amusement.
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Arguing from the extremeties is pretty awesome, huh.
The point about my whining was that with Tastosis, Artosis gets exceedingly annoying with his over-the-top blatant fanboyism towards NesTea that is off-putting to many sensible people. Tasteless on the other hand just agrees with whatever Artosis is saying, practically being the "Yes-man". When NesTea loses, Artosis loses all interest in other games, and it rubs off on Tasteless until they both keep repeating "These games are bad", when the games aren't really bad at all.
And while Artosis is all bitter about NesTea losing, Tasteless tries to cheer him up with random banter, which ends up being 90% of the casts after the NesTea matches because Artosis is just THAT bitter when NesTea loses. When NesTea wins on the other hand, Artosis goes bananas and just keeps talking about him and referencing him in every match right after, much to my disgust.
If Tasteless is just agreeing to everything Artosis says because he doesn't want to piss him off or something, he should stop it. I'd actually like Tasteless to say what's really on his mind, especially when it comes to the actual games.
I'm not saying that Artosis should be 100% focused on the games and be boring, etc. and all that good shit. I'm just saying flat out that Artosis is getting annoying with his extreme NesTea fanboyism, and Tasteless seems to be just nodding at everything Artosis says, from what I see.
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On October 12 2011 11:31 Grayson Carlyle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 10:17 blade55555 wrote:
Belshir which is 14-17 favoring zerg so slightly zerg favored (even though NO map is going to be 50/50)
Metalopolis is 30-24 favoring Terran.
Day break 12-18 favoring zerg
Taldarim 42-26 favoring terran
Dual sight 30-27 favoring terran. Have you seen Dual Sight's stats when you take out DRG's games? Just wanted to point out that bit of amusement.
nope  . but I wish people knew what they were talking about before blindly saying zerg favored maps .
Its like crossfire when people say its so anti zerg yet zerg has a good record on it so its obviously not anti zerg.
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I'm very glad i'm not the only one that recognizes that. The whole IPL I heard "Metal Zerg favored" and .. just furrowed my eyebrows.
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On October 12 2011 12:10 Probe1 wrote:
I'm very glad i'm not the only one that recognizes that. The whole IPL I heard "Metal Zerg favored" and .. just furrowed my eyebrows.
I agree. Those skinny corridors are so good for tanks. Plus with MVP getting a quick third he can well keep up with Nestea's economy.
Sure, BL's are good for taking out a terran gold base, but that's the only thing zerg has going for it on the map.
Metal traditionally was zerg favored, but only because back in the day terrans usually didn't go beyond two base.
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Nestea was incredibly underwhelming.
Decision Making
- Bunker in game 1? .... -_-
- Indecisive attacks, game 4, should have committed to breaking the Terran's natural after investing so much in army without droning or getting a 3rd.
- Game 3, dropped on top of tanks and bunkers when the main was wide open.
- Overall losing roaches and lings to haphazard attacks.
- Botched the last game, didn't have a good ling to baneling ratio and lost everything to siege fire.
- Doesn't flank from all possible angles when he could have, clumped units.
Poor Macro
- Acceptable creep spread, nothing good.
- Missed plenty of injects.
- Poor decisions on when to expand / drone relative to what he should have scouted.
- Awkward tech timings, very late hive in game 4 while doing nothing with his army despite having infestors.
This of course is all relative to other Zergs such as Nestea himself and DRG.
Basically there was nothing impressive or anything close to champion like about his play today and thusly he more than deserved to lose.
The people are cry about hellions being OP and need gas are ....
You have to realize hellions spiral out of control when you've already lost so it seems far worse than it actually is. Had Nestea realized how much damage his first attack did in game 1 and then droned and teched mutas, he would have held off future hellions much more easily. Instead he regrouped for a semi-all in failed and then didn't have the units to stop hellions and then didn't have enough drones for anything other than making more drones to die.
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I don't so much mind that Tastosis gets off topic, but I wish they weren't so perpetually condescending. I know it's supposed to be part of the joke, but I'm getting more and more defensive whenever Tastosis start veering off subject, I dread any time they're going to wander into a topic that interests me, because I know if they don't share my opinion on that topic I can expect to be scorned. I don't really appreciate that I'm paying money to get ridiculed on broadcast. I've been pretty fortunate that usually either my opinions match theirs, or that I just don't care about what they're talking about, but I'm still constantly wary.
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On October 12 2011 11:38 KanoCoke wrote:
Arguing from the extremeties is pretty awesome, huh.
The point about my whining was that with Tastosis, Artosis gets exceedingly annoying with his over-the-top blatant fanboyism towards NesTea that is off-putting to many sensible people. Tasteless on the other hand just agrees with whatever Artosis is saying, practically being the "Yes-man". When NesTea loses, Artosis loses all interest in other games, and it rubs off on Tasteless until they both keep repeating "These games are bad", when the games aren't really bad at all.
And while Artosis is all bitter about NesTea losing, Tasteless tries to cheer him up with random banter, which ends up being 90% of the casts after the NesTea matches because Artosis is just THAT bitter when NesTea loses. When NesTea wins on the other hand, Artosis goes bananas and just keeps talking about him and referencing him in every match right after, much to my disgust.
If Tasteless is just agreeing to everything Artosis says because he doesn't want to piss him off or something, he should stop it. I'd actually like Tasteless to say what's really on his mind, especially when it comes to the actual games.
I'm not saying that Artosis should be 100% focused on the games and be boring, etc. and all that good shit. I'm just saying flat out that Artosis is getting annoying with his extreme NesTea fanboyism, and Tasteless seems to be just nodding at everything Artosis says, from what I see.
After 4 hours of listening to Nestea worship even after he loses, I'm almost at a point where I don't even want to watch his games anymore. I rather listen to random Korean yelling nonsense than to hear how Nestea is god among gods and Ganzi/Supernova games don't even fit to be in code A.
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On October 11 2011 20:20 Highways wrote:
People need to stop whining about TvZ ffs.
The matchup is super even ever since the blue flame hellion patch. I'll even argue that Zerg has the advantage in TvZ.
Dude, you might have to change your sig. Just sayin'. 
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United States7754 Posts
On October 12 2011 11:06 dmnum wrote:
I don't know why people are making such a big deal about the growth of e-sports. Part of why I love SC2 is because I can have a few good laughs while watching a tournament. If we need to give up those kind of things to grow then I'm not really sure if I want e-sports to be huge.
Also, nobody seems to notice, but there's always a lot of more people complaining than people defending the casters. Like when code GSTL comes on and some people say "Not doa and moletrap, I really wanted tastosis!", but yet these same people never show up to defend them in topics like this one. I'm not saying tastosis needs to be defended by every fan who's out there, but my point is: while the people who complain are a lot more vocal than the people who don't, I still think you who are complaining are a minority, and oh well, you can't please everyone.
Edit: Just to make myself clear: I don't have any problem with people who think artosis should take it easy with his fanboyism from nestea, I think bias should be kept down to a minimum too.
That is my ONLY real problem with them, the blatant bias that Artosis always has, is totally unprofessional. I love the jokes, when used at the right time. Some of them I laugh so much my eyes start to water, but the bias of artosis is just incredible, and at least 80-90% of the NesTea/Mvp series was being spent wanking over NesTea, it's ridiculous. Was the same last week as well.
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Flash and Jaedong killers are both in semis. yay.
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On October 12 2011 12:53 anrimayu wrote:
After 4 hours of listening to Nestea worship even after he loses, I'm almost at a point where I don't even want to watch his games anymore. I rather listen to random Korean yelling nonsense than to hear how Nestea is god among gods and Ganzi/Supernova games don't even fit to be in code A.
That "nonsense" is Korean. It's actually a language.. just saying.
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EPT
