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On October 10 2011 12:35 Goshdarnit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 12:27 xAPOCALYPSEx wrote:
Stephano had an impressive showing, but you can't call someone the best foreigner (someone is even calling him the best player) in the world just because he wins 1 offline event. The players he beat weren't exactly top-tier. He beat a few of them in the online qualifiers but that doesn't mean much especially against a T or P where micro matters so much (I personally watched mkp lose to stephano because of his lack of marine splitting timing, most likely due to lag).
He's good, but don't be so damn quick to jump on the bandwagon. He won a single offline tourney by beating, frankly, mediocre players (as far as KR standards) Hmmm, the people he beat were pretty top tier. I'm not saying he IS nestea or some code S champion. But please name a foreigner who is better than him, I would like to know who it is. I know your not dissing him, but your comment is downplaying him a bit much tbh. He is a great player with fantastic potential. Also I saw him play some bad games this tournament, he has among he best zvt AND zvp in the foreigner scene and great zvz comparable to dimaga if not better. I can count the amount of zergs in the world that are as good in any matchup as he is in all three on my hands. Speaking of nestea and losira (well I wasn't but w/e) stephano might have better zvt then them (but that is not proven by anything except that zvt is the IM zergs' worst MU).
Those weren't top tier koreans.
And I'd say Thorzain and MaNa are better foreigners; they may not have recently won a huge tourney but they've shown that they can post results constantly and consitently. Winning 1 tournament doesn't make you the best player; If it did than IdrA would be the best foreigner ever, as his path to the finals in IEM was arguably much tougher than Stephanos. It is consistency that means everything. So I'm not saying that Stephano is at all bad, because he's just showed us that he isn't, but it is too early to tell if he's great.
Again, not taking anything away from Stephano's win; I'm glad to see a foreigner win. I'm just trying to shut all the 'basic math' guys and 'only person even close is MVP' people up ~_~
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On October 10 2011 12:52 TotalBiscuit wrote:
The internet, where a lot of unimportant people try and devalue those better than them.
I wouldn't put it as nicely.
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On October 10 2011 12:51 quancer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 12:45 Azarkon wrote:On October 10 2011 12:43 Grapesludge wrote:On October 10 2011 12:37 Dante08 wrote:
Cmon guys you have to admit Stephano got a relatively easy bracket.
Not taking anything away from his win, I watched the ZvZ finals and he completely outplayed Lucky. His game sense is crazy. The moment you say that you are taking away from his win. He didn't have an easy bracket, people try to find ways to discredit a player if they were not their favorite to win it. Yeah, it's really sad, imo. No, Stephano did not beat - head-to-head - the Korean players who were considered the best coming into the tournament - that would be MMA, MC, Ryung, and Puma - but he beat all the players who beat them. And by beating them, those players showed that they were themselves top-level players. So why take away from Stephano? I think a lot of people feel that Stephano is getting more credit than he's due. From my perspective, this cycle of overhyping one messiah only to abandon him and move onto another is pretty unhealthy. Stephano had a great tournament and is obviously a top player, but him beating mid-tier Koreans, (yes, they are mid-tier, because they have not shown to be consistently top-tier -- this should be an easy concept) in one tournament isn't any kind of proof that he's the greatest European player, or whatever else people are saying. While some are trying to discredit Stephano maliciously, that doesn't mean the points raised by others aren't legitimate.
most players say stephano is the best foreiger for some time now. mid-tier koreans... so the only top-tier koreans are Nestea, mvp, bomber and DRG right?
some ppl...
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On October 10 2011 12:46 Zath.erin wrote:
Jesus, obviously Stephano is good, there isn't a question about that. But winning one major tournament doesn't make you the best player in the world or even best foreigner, especially when the game is as young as it is now. The people touting Stephano as the best player in the world or best foreigner are just as bad as the ones trying to discredit him. He's a really good player and past that we'll have to see what he accomplishes from here on out, but he is putting up pretty amazing results considering he just switched to playing full time a few months ago.
I haven't seen anyone seriously arguing that Stephano is THE best player in the world or anything like that. One could have uttered such out of joy or excitement. It's YOU who makes something out of nothing.
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On October 10 2011 12:49 cyclone25 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 12:43 koolaid1990 wrote:On October 10 2011 12:36 cyclone25 wrote:
Let's do some simple math @ Stephano haters.
Results since September:
1) MMA 2-1 July, MMA 2-0 Nestea, MMA 2-1 Losira
2) Lucky 3-0 MMA
3) Stephano 4-0 Lucky
That means Stephano is worlds ahead of the koreans. Don't even try to argue on this because it's just basic mathematics. ok some more math. Lucifron 2-0 Stephano. DRG owned lucifron 2-0. So DRG is ages ahead of stephano. Stephano loses to Puma 1-2. Puma loses 2-0 to MMA thus MMA > Stephano right? Stephano won 2-0 vs Lucifron 3 days after that loss (so they're 2-2). His loss vs Puma was in August, not September. Try again.
10/10
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On October 10 2011 12:50 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 12:49 cyclone25 wrote:On October 10 2011 12:43 koolaid1990 wrote:On October 10 2011 12:36 cyclone25 wrote:
Let's do some simple math @ Stephano haters.
Results since September:
1) MMA 2-1 July, MMA 2-0 Nestea, MMA 2-1 Losira
2) Lucky 3-0 MMA
3) Stephano 4-0 Lucky
That means Stephano is worlds ahead of the koreans. Don't even try to argue on this because it's just basic mathematics. ok some more math. Lucifron 2-0 Stephano. DRG owned lucifron 2-0. So DRG is ages ahead of stephano. Stephano loses to Puma 1-2. Puma loses 2-0 to MMA thus MMA > Stephano right? Stephano won 2-0 vs Lucifron 3 days after that loss (so they're 2-2). His loss vs Puma was in August, not September. Try again. So you really are serious?
Haha, not really, just giving the Stephano haters something to work with 
I'm done for today, good night :D
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On October 10 2011 12:54 ThisGS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 12:51 quancer wrote:On October 10 2011 12:45 Azarkon wrote:On October 10 2011 12:43 Grapesludge wrote:On October 10 2011 12:37 Dante08 wrote:
Cmon guys you have to admit Stephano got a relatively easy bracket.
Not taking anything away from his win, I watched the ZvZ finals and he completely outplayed Lucky. His game sense is crazy. The moment you say that you are taking away from his win. He didn't have an easy bracket, people try to find ways to discredit a player if they were not their favorite to win it. Yeah, it's really sad, imo. No, Stephano did not beat - head-to-head - the Korean players who were considered the best coming into the tournament - that would be MMA, MC, Ryung, and Puma - but he beat all the players who beat them. And by beating them, those players showed that they were themselves top-level players. So why take away from Stephano? I think a lot of people feel that Stephano is getting more credit than he's due. From my perspective, this cycle of overhyping one messiah only to abandon him and move onto another is pretty unhealthy. Stephano had a great tournament and is obviously a top player, but him beating mid-tier Koreans, (yes, they are mid-tier, because they have not shown to be consistently top-tier -- this should be an easy concept) in one tournament isn't any kind of proof that he's the greatest European player, or whatever else people are saying. While some are trying to discredit Stephano maliciously, that doesn't mean the points raised by others aren't legitimate. most players say stephano is the best foreiger for some time now. mid-tier koreans... so the only top-tier koreans are Nestea, mvp, bomber and DRG right? some ppl...
There were some top-tier players at IPL too, but Stephano didn't have to face them. It's the same reason people value MVP's most recent GSL title over Nestea's undefeated title.
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On October 10 2011 12:51 quancer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 12:45 Azarkon wrote:On October 10 2011 12:43 Grapesludge wrote:On October 10 2011 12:37 Dante08 wrote:
Cmon guys you have to admit Stephano got a relatively easy bracket.
Not taking anything away from his win, I watched the ZvZ finals and he completely outplayed Lucky. His game sense is crazy. The moment you say that you are taking away from his win. He didn't have an easy bracket, people try to find ways to discredit a player if they were not their favorite to win it. Yeah, it's really sad, imo. No, Stephano did not beat - head-to-head - the Korean players who were considered the best coming into the tournament - that would be MMA, MC, Ryung, and Puma - but he beat all the players who beat them. And by beating them, those players showed that they were themselves top-level players. So why take away from Stephano? I think a lot of people feel that Stephano is getting more credit than he's due. From my perspective, this cycle of overhyping one messiah only to abandon him and move onto another is pretty unhealthy. Stephano had a great tournament and is obviously a top player, but him beating mid-tier Koreans, (yes, they are mid-tier, because they have not shown to be consistently top-tier -- this should be an easy concept) in one tournament isn't any kind of proof that he's the greatest European player, or whatever else people are saying. While some are trying to discredit Stephano maliciously, that doesn't mean the points raised by others aren't legitimate.
Fair enough. Nevertheless he seems to have torn up the brackets this weekend.
While perhaps slightly hyped up, you can't blame those who root for him for their excitement. At least, I can't. And stopping either fanboys or haters is pretty much impossible. There's too many of 'm.
All I can say is that this was an awesome performance; congratulations to Stephano.
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United States484 Posts
wow i smell mad rage in dis thread its time to leave
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On October 10 2011 12:44 Tewks44 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 12:42 ThisGS wrote:
IdrA wins IEM china:
"IdrA best foreigner"
Stephano wins IPL3, 10x harder to do, demolishing the player who knocked out IdrA:
"Stephano sux, he just got lucky"
"IdrA's play is clearly better"
and furthermore:
"Stephano is the best player in the world"
why cant ppl just enjoy what just happened. I agree entirely. I feel like in this tournament there are some very extreme views on both ends. I'm not trying to discredit Stephano but I think it's partically due to the fact he was far more unknown than IdrA. Not saying anything about his skill but before this tournament if you grouped Stephano into "best foreign zerg" you would probably be laughed it. With this (fairly unexpected) win there are going to be some pretty big reactions on both sides.
What no people have known he is amazing for months lol.
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On October 10 2011 12:50 usethis2 wrote:
Yeah for real. Huk is definitely code S quality player (please name other code S quality Protoss please) and Stephano beat him. Lucky just qualified for Up and Down for code S. And for the love of god, the gap between code S and code A (heck even many in code B) isn't huge - anyone can take a series off anyone. That's why code S players are so scared of Up and Down matches. (Hello, Inca)
You really can't discredit a foreigner win which even the Koreans applaud. Stephano was downright scary this weekend. Whether his dominating form will continue - who knows? But for now he has every right to be proud.
The one thing Code S means currently is consistency. Getting to Code S and staying there for a good amount of time means you are pretty freaking good. MC while he was in Code S was amazing but the one thing his drop to Code B showed was that he was just not being consistent enough during that fall. Until everyone is gathered and playing in the same league, trying to determine skill without players actually playing each other is foolish.
Stephano undoubtedly put himself on the map with the win at IPL 3. Now all he has to do is go to Korea and prove his consistency by getting into Code S and staying there. He needs to climb that mountain.
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How about everyone who thinks Stephano is bad just waits until GOM's invitational cup thing that he is now in? MVP and Nestea will be in it. That tournament will be fun to watch.
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On October 10 2011 12:52 xAPOCALYPSEx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 12:35 Goshdarnit wrote:On October 10 2011 12:27 xAPOCALYPSEx wrote:
Stephano had an impressive showing, but you can't call someone the best foreigner (someone is even calling him the best player) in the world just because he wins 1 offline event. The players he beat weren't exactly top-tier. He beat a few of them in the online qualifiers but that doesn't mean much especially against a T or P where micro matters so much (I personally watched mkp lose to stephano because of his lack of marine splitting timing, most likely due to lag).
He's good, but don't be so damn quick to jump on the bandwagon. He won a single offline tourney by beating, frankly, mediocre players (as far as KR standards) Hmmm, the people he beat were pretty top tier. I'm not saying he IS nestea or some code S champion. But please name a foreigner who is better than him, I would like to know who it is. I know your not dissing him, but your comment is downplaying him a bit much tbh. He is a great player with fantastic potential. Also I saw him play some bad games this tournament, he has among he best zvt AND zvp in the foreigner scene and great zvz comparable to dimaga if not better. I can count the amount of zergs in the world that are as good in any matchup as he is in all three on my hands. Speaking of nestea and losira (well I wasn't but w/e) stephano might have better zvt then them (but that is not proven by anything except that zvt is the IM zergs' worst MU). Those weren't top tier koreans. And I'd say Thorzain and MaNa are better foreigners; they may not have recently won a huge tourney but they've shown that they can post results constantly and consitently. Winning 1 tournament doesn't make you the best player; If it did than IdrA would be the best foreigner ever, as his path to the finals in IEM was arguably much tougher than Stephanos. It is consistency that means everything. So I'm not saying that Stephano is at all bad, because he's just showed us that he isn't, but it is too early to tell if he's great. Again, not taking anything away from Stephano's win; I'm glad to see a foreigner win. I'm just trying to shut all the 'basic math' guys and 'only person even close is MVP' people up ~_~
I don't think it is too early to tell if he is great, can you honestly say that he isn't a great player after watching the way he play?
Trying to say he would rip EVERYONE (basicly Mvp, Nestea) is just dumb cause we have no idea how that would end up, but at this point he has proven to be a great player.
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On October 10 2011 12:54 usethis2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 12:46 Zath.erin wrote:
Jesus, obviously Stephano is good, there isn't a question about that. But winning one major tournament doesn't make you the best player in the world or even best foreigner, especially when the game is as young as it is now. The people touting Stephano as the best player in the world or best foreigner are just as bad as the ones trying to discredit him. He's a really good player and past that we'll have to see what he accomplishes from here on out, but he is putting up pretty amazing results considering he just switched to playing full time a few months ago. I haven't seen anyone seriously arguing that Stephano is THE best player in the world or anything like that. One could have uttered such out of joy or excitement. It's YOU who makes something out of nothing.
Then you haven't looked hard enough because a few people were claiming it.
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This is why we can't have nice thing. A foreign player wins a tournament with Koreans and we are arguing about some of the dumbest thing to devalue the players achievement.
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Really glad to see a foreigner win. Kiwikaki vs Stephano game two alone made this tournament worth watching.
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On October 10 2011 12:58 GenoZStriker wrote:
This is why we can't have nice thing. A foreign player wins a tournament with Koreans and we are arguing about some of the dumbest thing to devalue the players achievement.
agree 100%. People are just silly.
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Gratz Stephano!!!!!! Keep up the good work. I hope he joins MLG Orlando too.
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On October 10 2011 12:48 wats0n wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 12:42 Dante08 wrote:On October 10 2011 12:39 Resilient wrote:On October 10 2011 12:37 Dante08 wrote:
Cmon guys you have to admit Stephano got a relatively easy bracket.
Not taking anything away from his win, I watched the ZvZ finals and he completely outplayed Lucky. His game sense is crazy. By even mentioning that, you're taking things away from his win. He defeated a lot of great players to qualify for IPL, then defeated a lot more great players to win the tournament. That's all there is to it. Ok I'll rephrase, hes a god dam amazing player and deserves the win 100%. I guess what Im saying is that I would have liked to see him play the better players in this tournament for example, MMA, Ryung Puma etc. Those guys played like shit. You must not have been watching the games. Beating Lucky was a lot harder than it would have been beating those guys (two of which Lucky beat). On top of that ZvT is Stephano's best matchup. Your post is lousy.
Really? So you're saying Stephano would beat the players I mentioned cause he beat Lucky 4-0 and Lucky beat them. I like your theory, it 100% proven.
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On October 10 2011 12:52 xAPOCALYPSEx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 12:35 Goshdarnit wrote:On October 10 2011 12:27 xAPOCALYPSEx wrote:
Stephano had an impressive showing, but you can't call someone the best foreigner (someone is even calling him the best player) in the world just because he wins 1 offline event. The players he beat weren't exactly top-tier. He beat a few of them in the online qualifiers but that doesn't mean much especially against a T or P where micro matters so much (I personally watched mkp lose to stephano because of his lack of marine splitting timing, most likely due to lag).
He's good, but don't be so damn quick to jump on the bandwagon. He won a single offline tourney by beating, frankly, mediocre players (as far as KR standards) Hmmm, the people he beat were pretty top tier. I'm not saying he IS nestea or some code S champion. But please name a foreigner who is better than him, I would like to know who it is. I know your not dissing him, but your comment is downplaying him a bit much tbh. He is a great player with fantastic potential. Also I saw him play some bad games this tournament, he has among he best zvt AND zvp in the foreigner scene and great zvz comparable to dimaga if not better. I can count the amount of zergs in the world that are as good in any matchup as he is in all three on my hands. Speaking of nestea and losira (well I wasn't but w/e) stephano might have better zvt then them (but that is not proven by anything except that zvt is the IM zergs' worst MU). Those weren't top tier koreans. And I'd say Thorzain and MaNa are better foreigners; they may not have recently won a huge tourney but they've shown that they can post results constantly and consitently. Winning 1 tournament doesn't make you the best player; If it did than IdrA would be the best foreigner ever, as his path to the finals in IEM was arguably much tougher than Stephanos. It is consistency that means everything. So I'm not saying that Stephano is at all bad, because he's just showed us that he isn't, but it is too early to tell if he's great. Again, not taking anything away from Stephano's win; I'm glad to see a foreigner win. I'm just trying to shut all the 'basic math' guys and 'only person even close is MVP' people up ~_~
much tougher???? he had puma and revival. PuMa's TvZ isnt too great. well, thats it. Stephano just played 11-2 maps vs HuK, TheStC, Lucky and Violet. Code S, Code B (doing very well at fxokoth), Up&Down CodeA/S, Former CodeS.
why so biased :/
ThorZaiN's TvZ is not good enough to be on par with Stephano who is good in all matchups - you could argue about ZvP, but still he beats huk ezpz whenever they meet. MaNa's PvT is up there, but his PvZ isnt.
Stephano is clearly the best foreiger atm and he was before IPL3 as well. ppl who say "1 tournament doesnt prove anything" simply do not follow the european scene.
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EPT
