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Keep enjoying the games. In advance, if you OP whine, see you in a while. If you post well, hopefully see a lot more of you :D <3 |
I love how people actually get emotionally attached to players like idra and stuff. It's really, really awesome. But at the same time, does an LR thread need to be filled with people whining?
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On October 04 2011 14:27 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:09 Cyrak wrote:
Puma is like the quintessential construct of the Artosis hype machine. He has no significant accomplishments outside his one miracle series vs. MC at NASL. He can still play an abusive TvP in a matchup where T enjoys a 70%+ win rate in Korea, but what he showed here today was not even Code A level play.
Today's match should deflate the hype a bit, but I'm sure it won't. Well said. Puma is a guy who has never ever qualified for even code A, and probably will never play in the GSL ever. At the end of the year, more people will remember Jinro than him. Hell, even Clide will probably be a more familiar name than Puma when we look back on SC2 in the future.
The only reason anyone knows clide is because of the Artosis hype machine, which this comment thread alludes to for Puma. Your point is silly and I disagree and I think the fact that Puma's winning games and placing where he goes is evidence to that. I don't think he's even tried out for Code A in the last 2 quals.
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As a North American Zerg player/sympathizer, I'll be rooting for IdrA. But as a member of Acer, Elfi's got some good Zerg training partners. He's got Nerchio, who has beaten IdrA in the past.
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On October 04 2011 14:34 samd wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:32 InvalidID wrote:On October 04 2011 14:28 MyNameIsAlex wrote:On October 04 2011 14:25 Dawski wrote:On October 04 2011 14:23 samd wrote:
LOL, the term legend gets thrown around a little too easily these days. Elfi was a high level player, but I wouldn't call him a wc3 legend. I would reserve non-Korean legend status for grubby, tod, insomnia, creo, heman, fatc, madfrog, deadman, shortround and maybe a few others. non-korean? i wasnt a wc3 follower outside of grubby/moon matches on youtube but wernt most best wc3 players chinese? nope when wc3 was on its prime the best players were koreans. the only eu player that was on even ground with them was grubby after 06 or so, and from the chinese players there were sky and xiaot. and maybe a couple others but not so dominant. Grubby was a pretty dominate face on the scene long before 06. By 2004 he was already prettymuch in line with the top Koreans, winning wcg 04. I wouldn't say "even ground" for the typical Korean pro at any point in his career post 2003. Prettymuch the only person on even ground with him for consistently winning tournaments was moon. On October 04 2011 14:31 samd wrote:
Also If you want to go reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally old school you can add Bei and CrazyAssassin to the wc3 legends list but their dominance was before the game was played much in tournaments and such. LOL Bei. My favorite part about Bei was when he quit being a pro gamer, and instead focused on FFA games. His old FFA replays were ridiculous, like 5 noobs trying to simultaneously kill him and he would still win. Haha I don't even know if you can call Bei a pro-gamer. He was arguably the best wc3 player during a long stretch of time, but that was back when there were like 0 tournaments outside of Korea. He was the definition of a ladder hero
"Make da goos, chop da wood" if you ever saw the famous interview in like 2002 or so.
But the true wc3 legend no-one ever remembers is Showtime.Werra. He was kind of a one trick pony with his beastmaster hunts, but he defined the game for a good year after TFTs release.
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ooo i might vote idra to be the sick nerd baller of iemchina , he might aswell win something, since he might lose to Elfi.
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On October 04 2011 14:35 Tewks44 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:34 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 04 2011 14:26 blade55555 wrote:On October 04 2011 14:24 Heavenly wrote:On October 04 2011 14:22 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 04 2011 14:17 Jamesbigpig wrote:On October 04 2011 13:57 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 04 2011 13:55 Yamulo wrote:On October 04 2011 13:53 MenSol[ZerO] wrote:
this is not the puma i know Yeah, Bitter is impressed with idra (as you should be), but puma is a big? right now. I don't know. In other news, now I think a protoss can win this! Puma never has been a big terran. Maybe right after his NASL win you could argue that, but he was still pretty untested against koreans at that time. You do realize Darkforce was the only non-Korean in the round of 8 of NASL right? That means Puma had to go through 3 Koreans at least, and I know that he beat both July and MC. He did very well at MLG, playing at the level of all the Koreans there. Add IEM Cologne, to say Puma is not that good compared to Koreans is ridiculous. Ask anyone who knows anything about the Korean scene right now and they will tell you he is code-S level. He also was quite a beast in the GSTL when he was on TSL. The koreans he went through weren't very notable, he never played against July, he played against Squritle barely beating him 2-1 (squirtle hasn't been in code A for like 3 seasons now), he beat MC which was right when Protoss actually began to struggle, then he went to IEM Cologne, lost to Mana 2-0 in group, beat MC with 3 1-1-1's in a row prepatch, and beast in GSTL? He played like one series where he got a 3 kill. Before then he was hardly ever played because he was on the brink of B team. Now getting to MLG, he went 5-0 in group, but he got destroyed by Coca who was known for a bad ZvT, and then he lost to Nada when he was up in the extended series. Code S level is a pretty big phrase for someone who has never qualified for code A once and couldn't make it to top 3 at MLG even if DRG wasn't there to take the spot. Lol there's no point, people will just quote you and call you a hater/korean lover/whatever. I guess people are so tired of watching Koreans win everything that they'll just go crazy whenever a foreigner manages to beat any of the mid-tier ones that he usually loses to in practice anyway. You are right there is no point in arguing with people like you 2 who discredit every foreigner win vs a korean especially one who won IEM china as well and had a good run at MLG losing to Nada 4-3 who koreans consider Nada's tvt to be really really good. I was never discrediting idra's win. I'm not gonna make some excuse that puma threw those games or played awful, just saying that I could name 15 terrans off the top of my head that are better than Puma and that he is not code S caliber. He can take games off code S players if that'll make anyone feel better. But when you have never qualified for GSL and during a period of terran dominance then you are not worthy of being called code S caliber. I would agree that Puma's not one of the top korean Terrans like MVP, Bomber, and the like, but I would put him up in the top 15.
I agree. He isn't the absolute top class, but rather the next one. Anyone who doubts this needs to check his TLPD. He has taken out a good amount of Code S players. Its because he is on EG. If he was TL'Puma, he would be the next great Terran like Hero is the next great Protoss.
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On October 04 2011 14:23 P3rytt wrote:
In other news, I've just vacuumed but my carpet is still so dingy. Wat do ?
Don't have light colored carpet I guess.  My current apartment has like dark greyish blue mottled type carpet its awesome for hiding shit.
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On October 04 2011 14:37 rdj107 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:32 Heavenly wrote:On October 04 2011 14:29 P3rytt wrote:On October 04 2011 14:24 Heavenly wrote:On October 04 2011 14:22 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 04 2011 14:17 Jamesbigpig wrote:On October 04 2011 13:57 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 04 2011 13:55 Yamulo wrote:On October 04 2011 13:53 MenSol[ZerO] wrote:
this is not the puma i know Yeah, Bitter is impressed with idra (as you should be), but puma is a big? right now. I don't know. In other news, now I think a protoss can win this! Puma never has been a big terran. Maybe right after his NASL win you could argue that, but he was still pretty untested against koreans at that time. You do realize Darkforce was the only non-Korean in the round of 8 of NASL right? That means Puma had to go through 3 Koreans at least, and I know that he beat both July and MC. He did very well at MLG, playing at the level of all the Koreans there. Add IEM Cologne, to say Puma is not that good compared to Koreans is ridiculous. Ask anyone who knows anything about the Korean scene right now and they will tell you he is code-S level. He also was quite a beast in the GSTL when he was on TSL. The koreans he went through weren't very notable, he never played against July, he played against Squritle barely beating him 2-1 (squirtle hasn't been in code A for like 3 seasons now), he beat MC which was right when Protoss actually began to struggle, then he went to IEM Cologne, lost to Mana 2-0 in group, beat MC with 3 1-1-1's in a row prepatch, and beast in GSTL? He played like one series where he got a 3 kill. Before then he was hardly ever played because he was on the brink of B team. Now getting to MLG, he went 5-0 in group, but he got destroyed by Coca who was known for a bad ZvT, and then he lost to Nada when he was up in the extended series. Code S level is a pretty big phrase for someone who has never qualified for code A once and couldn't make it to top 3 at MLG even if DRG wasn't there to take the spot. Lol there's no point, people will just quote you and call you a hater/korean lover/whatever. I guess people are so tired of watching Koreans win everything that they'll just go crazy whenever a foreigner manages to beat any of the mid-tier ones that he usually loses to in practice anyway. Good for IdrA though, he's playing about the level you would expect from him. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, I don't think he was slumping bad but if you have a 50% chance of winning a series, sometimes you'll get the bad end more often than expected. What you don't get is that most people are just happy Idra won against the odds versus a very good korean player now if you don't think Puma is good I'm not sure what to tell you but writing a novel about his past 5 tournaments doesn't make you any less of a hater lol just go. Uh, I do get that and I didn't write a novel about his past 5 tournaments. Lmao people like you are hilarious, you just say random insults. Not really random. You're pretty consistently a jerk whenever idra has been mentioned in any lr thread for as long as I've been reading them. Taking out whatever hatred you have for him here seems to just be what you do so it's natural that you occasionally get called on it.
No. Hating fanboys is what all the cool kids do nowadays. Pretty ironic imo.
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On October 04 2011 14:30 Sabu113 wrote:
Puma is greatly overrated. His games at JYP showed some shakiness in games lasting greater than 10minutes when you would start seeing supply blocks etc.
That said I don't know how to feel. I feel pretty happy for Idra as I used to be an idrafan, but what he has said lately and idrafans I'm kinda in the meh camp.
Still this was an awesome achievement for Idra. For a long time it seemed that he was in honesty a loser. Someone without the belief to win. This was a major victory. Caveat as it will, IF idra goes on to do as he should and win the tournament this will be a massive feather in his cap.
I love how we can call someone who wins 3 big tournaments overrated.
I'd like to visit the planet you live on, but I'd hate to live there.
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All I know is I come in on TL after a long day of school. Come and check the results. Puma 3-0's Idra.
seriously? seriously? seriously?
did Idra finally get the eye of the tiger?
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Is Team Acer sponsored by the PC company Acer?
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On October 04 2011 14:27 beamingrobot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:25 ladyumbra wrote:
In regards to the finals themselves I'm hoping for a tough nailbiter series as blowouts are boring as fuck and remind me of the gsl.
Don't worry it's not a mirror match. Or TvT.
That's not entirely reassuring you know, gsl has had two PvZ finals and both of them sucked. Which isn't to say that I don't love the GSL just that it's finals curse seems to be spreading from IEM cologne to MLG raleigh, gsl arena of legends etc. I want finals that show me the players who got there are evenly matched and will push each other to their limits.
I still think Nasl had possibly the best finals I've ever seen in sc 2 but I may be forgetting something.
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On October 04 2011 14:37 rdj107 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:32 Heavenly wrote:On October 04 2011 14:29 P3rytt wrote:On October 04 2011 14:24 Heavenly wrote:On October 04 2011 14:22 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 04 2011 14:17 Jamesbigpig wrote:On October 04 2011 13:57 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 04 2011 13:55 Yamulo wrote:On October 04 2011 13:53 MenSol[ZerO] wrote:
this is not the puma i know Yeah, Bitter is impressed with idra (as you should be), but puma is a big? right now. I don't know. In other news, now I think a protoss can win this! Puma never has been a big terran. Maybe right after his NASL win you could argue that, but he was still pretty untested against koreans at that time. You do realize Darkforce was the only non-Korean in the round of 8 of NASL right? That means Puma had to go through 3 Koreans at least, and I know that he beat both July and MC. He did very well at MLG, playing at the level of all the Koreans there. Add IEM Cologne, to say Puma is not that good compared to Koreans is ridiculous. Ask anyone who knows anything about the Korean scene right now and they will tell you he is code-S level. He also was quite a beast in the GSTL when he was on TSL. The koreans he went through weren't very notable, he never played against July, he played against Squritle barely beating him 2-1 (squirtle hasn't been in code A for like 3 seasons now), he beat MC which was right when Protoss actually began to struggle, then he went to IEM Cologne, lost to Mana 2-0 in group, beat MC with 3 1-1-1's in a row prepatch, and beast in GSTL? He played like one series where he got a 3 kill. Before then he was hardly ever played because he was on the brink of B team. Now getting to MLG, he went 5-0 in group, but he got destroyed by Coca who was known for a bad ZvT, and then he lost to Nada when he was up in the extended series. Code S level is a pretty big phrase for someone who has never qualified for code A once and couldn't make it to top 3 at MLG even if DRG wasn't there to take the spot. Lol there's no point, people will just quote you and call you a hater/korean lover/whatever. I guess people are so tired of watching Koreans win everything that they'll just go crazy whenever a foreigner manages to beat any of the mid-tier ones that he usually loses to in practice anyway. Good for IdrA though, he's playing about the level you would expect from him. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, I don't think he was slumping bad but if you have a 50% chance of winning a series, sometimes you'll get the bad end more often than expected. What you don't get is that most people are just happy Idra won against the odds versus a very good korean player now if you don't think Puma is good I'm not sure what to tell you but writing a novel about his past 5 tournaments doesn't make you any less of a hater lol just go. Uh, I do get that and I didn't write a novel about his past 5 tournaments. Lmao people like you are hilarious, you just say random insults. Not really random. You're pretty consistently a jerk whenever idra has been mentioned in any lr thread for as long as I've been reading them. Taking out whatever hatred you have for him here seems to just be what you do so it's natural that you occasionally get called on it.
Lol what? Last time I can recall being a jerk about IdrA's play in a LR thread was versus MC at MLG when people were overhyping his 2-0. I'm pretty neutral about IdrA, I think he's a funny guy and a decent player.
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On October 04 2011 14:39 iaguz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:30 Sabu113 wrote:
Puma is greatly overrated. His games at JYP showed some shakiness in games lasting greater than 10minutes when you would start seeing supply blocks etc.
That said I don't know how to feel. I feel pretty happy for Idra as I used to be an idrafan, but what he has said lately and idrafans I'm kinda in the meh camp.
Still this was an awesome achievement for Idra. For a long time it seemed that he was in honesty a loser. Someone without the belief to win. This was a major victory. Caveat as it will, IF idra goes on to do as he should and win the tournament this will be a massive feather in his cap. I love how we can call someone who wins 3 big tournaments overrated. I'd like to visit the planet you live on, but I'd hate to live there.
You won't like my qualification about his victories.
edit: also NASL, IEM, what's the third one?
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On October 04 2011 14:40 DisaFear wrote:
Is Team Acer sponsored by the PC company Acer?
I believe so.
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Hey guys the ' CODE B ' argument isnt that valid i mean we all know there are better code B players than some of Code S players. DRG was code B like 2 months ago, now in code S.
This season we have + Show Spoiler + on code A finals, both qualified this season one of em will be code S for sure.
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On October 04 2011 14:34 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:26 blade55555 wrote:On October 04 2011 14:24 Heavenly wrote:On October 04 2011 14:22 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 04 2011 14:17 Jamesbigpig wrote:On October 04 2011 13:57 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 04 2011 13:55 Yamulo wrote:On October 04 2011 13:53 MenSol[ZerO] wrote:
this is not the puma i know Yeah, Bitter is impressed with idra (as you should be), but puma is a big? right now. I don't know. In other news, now I think a protoss can win this! Puma never has been a big terran. Maybe right after his NASL win you could argue that, but he was still pretty untested against koreans at that time. You do realize Darkforce was the only non-Korean in the round of 8 of NASL right? That means Puma had to go through 3 Koreans at least, and I know that he beat both July and MC. He did very well at MLG, playing at the level of all the Koreans there. Add IEM Cologne, to say Puma is not that good compared to Koreans is ridiculous. Ask anyone who knows anything about the Korean scene right now and they will tell you he is code-S level. He also was quite a beast in the GSTL when he was on TSL. The koreans he went through weren't very notable, he never played against July, he played against Squritle barely beating him 2-1 (squirtle hasn't been in code A for like 3 seasons now), he beat MC which was right when Protoss actually began to struggle, then he went to IEM Cologne, lost to Mana 2-0 in group, beat MC with 3 1-1-1's in a row prepatch, and beast in GSTL? He played like one series where he got a 3 kill. Before then he was hardly ever played because he was on the brink of B team. Now getting to MLG, he went 5-0 in group, but he got destroyed by Coca who was known for a bad ZvT, and then he lost to Nada when he was up in the extended series. Code S level is a pretty big phrase for someone who has never qualified for code A once and couldn't make it to top 3 at MLG even if DRG wasn't there to take the spot. Lol there's no point, people will just quote you and call you a hater/korean lover/whatever. I guess people are so tired of watching Koreans win everything that they'll just go crazy whenever a foreigner manages to beat any of the mid-tier ones that he usually loses to in practice anyway. You are right there is no point in arguing with people like you 2 who discredit every foreigner win vs a korean especially one who won IEM china as well and had a good run at MLG losing to Nada 4-3 who koreans consider Nada's tvt to be really really good. I was never discrediting idra's win. I'm not gonna make some excuse that puma threw those games or played awful, just saying that I could name 15 terrans off the top of my head that are better than Puma and that he is not code S caliber. He can take games off code S players if that'll make anyone feel better. But when you have never qualified for GSL and during a period of terran dominance then you are not worthy of being called code S caliber.
So would you say that prior to this GSL DRG was not code S caliber? It's extremely difficult to qualify for the GSL. Puma has won 2/3 tournaments he has attended, and he placed 5th/6th at the other one. He's not just taking games off of code S players, he is beating them consistently. Qualifying for code S should not be a measure of skill, Puma's win percentages are much higher than that of other code S players.
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On October 04 2011 14:30 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:28 MyNameIsAlex wrote:On October 04 2011 14:25 Dawski wrote:On October 04 2011 14:23 samd wrote:
LOL, the term legend gets thrown around a little too easily these days. Elfi was a high level player, but I wouldn't call him a wc3 legend. I would reserve non-Korean legend status for grubby, tod, insomnia, creo, heman, fatc, madfrog, deadman, shortround and maybe a few others. non-korean? i wasnt a wc3 follower outside of grubby/moon matches on youtube but wernt most best wc3 players chinese? nope when wc3 was on its prime the best players were koreans. the only eu player that was on even ground with them was grubby after 06 or so, and from the chinese players there were sky and xiaot. and maybe a couple others but not so dominant. Well you have Creo who was arguably the best player for a very short period of time, ToD was dominant. Obviously Moon and FoV are up there, and Sweet/Check/Susi/Luci/Lyn/Remind (dunno if I'm forgetting anyone), but the disparity was never as big as it is in SC2. Grubby was better than all of those except Moon, and personally I think Sky is the 3rd best player of all-time. Which makes it one Korean (Moon) in the top 3.
Well Lyn was actually more consistant than Grubby for the later few years, Grubby snagged a few titles and won WCG 2008 but Lyn won like 75% of tour's he was in and racked up over 100k in prizemoney which at the time was obsurd, also the most dominant player in the world when on song was FLY, he was such a beast it's not even funny. Never lost orc mirror and made dotts look weak when the rest of the orc community was getting crushed, up 1-0 in Wcg finals vs Infi and held a commanding lead g2 then infi somehow held and kept harassing with invisible summons then FLY fell apart that game and game 3 got crushed ez by playing really sloppy on TM
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On October 04 2011 14:39 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:35 Tewks44 wrote:On October 04 2011 14:34 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 04 2011 14:26 blade55555 wrote:On October 04 2011 14:24 Heavenly wrote:On October 04 2011 14:22 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 04 2011 14:17 Jamesbigpig wrote:On October 04 2011 13:57 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 04 2011 13:55 Yamulo wrote:On October 04 2011 13:53 MenSol[ZerO] wrote:
this is not the puma i know Yeah, Bitter is impressed with idra (as you should be), but puma is a big? right now. I don't know. In other news, now I think a protoss can win this! Puma never has been a big terran. Maybe right after his NASL win you could argue that, but he was still pretty untested against koreans at that time. You do realize Darkforce was the only non-Korean in the round of 8 of NASL right? That means Puma had to go through 3 Koreans at least, and I know that he beat both July and MC. He did very well at MLG, playing at the level of all the Koreans there. Add IEM Cologne, to say Puma is not that good compared to Koreans is ridiculous. Ask anyone who knows anything about the Korean scene right now and they will tell you he is code-S level. He also was quite a beast in the GSTL when he was on TSL. The koreans he went through weren't very notable, he never played against July, he played against Squritle barely beating him 2-1 (squirtle hasn't been in code A for like 3 seasons now), he beat MC which was right when Protoss actually began to struggle, then he went to IEM Cologne, lost to Mana 2-0 in group, beat MC with 3 1-1-1's in a row prepatch, and beast in GSTL? He played like one series where he got a 3 kill. Before then he was hardly ever played because he was on the brink of B team. Now getting to MLG, he went 5-0 in group, but he got destroyed by Coca who was known for a bad ZvT, and then he lost to Nada when he was up in the extended series. Code S level is a pretty big phrase for someone who has never qualified for code A once and couldn't make it to top 3 at MLG even if DRG wasn't there to take the spot. Lol there's no point, people will just quote you and call you a hater/korean lover/whatever. I guess people are so tired of watching Koreans win everything that they'll just go crazy whenever a foreigner manages to beat any of the mid-tier ones that he usually loses to in practice anyway. You are right there is no point in arguing with people like you 2 who discredit every foreigner win vs a korean especially one who won IEM china as well and had a good run at MLG losing to Nada 4-3 who koreans consider Nada's tvt to be really really good. I was never discrediting idra's win. I'm not gonna make some excuse that puma threw those games or played awful, just saying that I could name 15 terrans off the top of my head that are better than Puma and that he is not code S caliber. He can take games off code S players if that'll make anyone feel better. But when you have never qualified for GSL and during a period of terran dominance then you are not worthy of being called code S caliber. I would agree that Puma's not one of the top korean Terrans like MVP, Bomber, and the like, but I would put him up in the top 15. I agree. He isn't the absolute top class, but rather the next one. Anyone who doubts this needs to check his TLPD. He has taken out a good amount of Code S players. Its because he is on EG. If he was TL'Puma, he would be the next great Terran like Hero is the next great Protoss.
Hrm, top 15 let's see.
Mvp, Bomber, Polt, Ryung, Top, Ganzi, Marineking, SC, Nada, Supernova, Clide, MMA, Taeja.
Yep, looks like he eeks into the top 15
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On October 04 2011 14:40 ladyumbra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 14:27 beamingrobot wrote:On October 04 2011 14:25 ladyumbra wrote:
In regards to the finals themselves I'm hoping for a tough nailbiter series as blowouts are boring as fuck and remind me of the gsl.
Don't worry it's not a mirror match. Or TvT. That's not entirely reassuring you know, gsl has had two PvZ finals and both of them sucked. Which isn't to say that I don't love the GSL just that it's finals curse seems to be spreading from IEM cologne to MLG raleigh, gsl arena of legends etc. I want finals that show me the players who got there are evenly matched and will push each other to their limits. I still think Nasl had possibly the best finals I've ever seen in sc 2 but I may be forgetting something.
Well one can always hope
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EPT
