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On September 29 2011 11:53 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 11:48 TT1 wrote:On September 29 2011 11:40 ptbl wrote:
No storms or feedbacks from white-ra. how is he gonna feedback his ghosts when theyre in the middle of t's army? kinda hard to click on ghosts when their all bunched up with marines, also hts vs ghosts micro battles are never cost efficient for the toss because snipe outranges feedback and emp does aoe dmg all demuslim needed was 2 emps, hitting 2 emps x 100 dmg on like 50 toss units reduces 5k hitpoints instantaneously, kinda makes it easy for t's bio to clean up(especially after theyre 3-3) afterwards because of their high dps Watch same replays from HasuObs, he seems to be winning the late game battles vs terrans all the time. Also, lets not forget that Protoss has the warp-in mechanic which helps tremendously late game. Guess Protoss needs to spead out late game and not put all eggs into one basket.
i base my arguments off of perfect execution and gameplay, theoretically if both players are playing perfectly and are at the same skill level the terran will always outmicro the toss in ghost vs hts battles simply because ghosts outrange templars, watch bomber whenever he has ghosts and ull see how cost effective templars are ^.^
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On September 29 2011 12:10 Icekommander wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 11:58 Tewks44 wrote:On September 29 2011 11:56 Redox wrote:On September 29 2011 11:55 Tewks44 wrote:On September 29 2011 11:53 Icekommander wrote:On September 29 2011 11:48 Spectorials wrote:
1/3 vs 3/3
doesn't mean a 100 supply difference at the end of a battle. upgrades don't do that much. it was all the EMPs... It was EMPs plus the upgrade advantage plus medivacs plus the lack of solid AOE DPS coming out from White-Ra. The colossus didn't last long enough against the vikings, and having a upgrade disadvantage and no FFs make gateway units almost completely useless. DeMuslims composition was simply superior in every way. White-Ra had Colossi and Immortals. What AoE did DeMuslim have again (besides EMP)? I guess it's a double standard when it comes to TvP So, EMP is such a bad AoE that you dont even think its necessary to include it in this equation? No, I was just not including EMP because people are saying White-Ra had no AoE when he had more AoE units than DeMuslim. I just think it's odd that people are saying White-Ra needed more AoE to try to explain the incredible lop-sidedness of that battle This is because Protoss is not the same as Terran. Gateway units are much less effective than Terran units at raw DPS (Especially with upgrade disadvantage). However the trade-off for this is that Terran armies are exceedingly compact, thus making them much more vulnerable to AOE attacks. This effect is compounded by the fact that a marine has only 45 hitpoints (post-stim) which makes them far squishier than zealots and stalkers. Also, EMP does a ridiculous amount of damage to Archon based armies. One hundred damage is more than storm does if you stand in it for all four seconds. This is particularly effective versus Archon based armies (which White-Ra's largely was) who can easily rack up shield damage very fast from multiple EMPs
So protoss should have teched to HT with storm storm which is very expensive, still not as effective as EMP (you said it yourself) and just as vulnerable to being negated by EMP as archons?
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did he just destroy the pylon he was warping in on?
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Man cruncher makes some serious blunders.
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On September 29 2011 11:54 luke3920 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 11:53 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 29 2011 11:43 luke3920 wrote:
Yeah I know Demuslim had a +2 upgrade advantage, but srsly, attacking in a choke vs a spread protoss army? it should of been a lot more closer than it was :\ Are you kidding? Demuslims army positioning was a million times better. What army positioning? Chasing Whitera up a choke? Yeah that requires lots of effort...almost as much as clicking EMP twice 
wtf does effort have to do with it? I never said it did. Terran was in a choke, that's GOOD for him when facing melee units. to top it off, whitera trying to spread his army HURT him, it didn't help him, because he took a TON of MM fire while spreading and not closing the gap. Lastly, his archons were in teh very back of his army, whichwas also a huge factor, while his stalkers blocked his zealots. Everything was terrible for whitera.
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On September 29 2011 12:15 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 11:53 Redox wrote:On September 29 2011 11:48 TT1 wrote:On September 29 2011 11:40 ptbl wrote:
No storms or feedbacks from white-ra. how is he gonna feedback his ghosts when theyre in the middle of t's army? kinda hard to click on ghosts when their all bunched up with marines, also hts vs ghosts micro battles are never cost efficient for the toss because snipe outranges feedback and emp does aoe dmg all demuslim needed was 2 emps, hitting 2 emps x 100 dmg on like 50 toss units reduces 5k hitpoints instantaneously, kinda makes it easy for t's bio to clean up(especially after theyre 3-3) afterwards because of their high dps Watch same replays from HasuObs, he seems to be winning the late game battles vs terrans all the time. Also, lets not forget that Protoss has the warp-in mechanic which helps tremendously late game. Guess Protoss needs to spead out late game and not put all eggs into one basket. i base my arguments off of perfect execution and gameplay, theoretically if both players are playing perfectly and are at the same skill level the terran will always outmicro the toss in ghost vs hts battles simply because ghosts outrange templars, watch bomber whenever he has ghosts and ull see how cost effective templars are ^.^
if ghosts couldnt beat templar, what would terran do vs templar?
just make more colossus dood
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On September 29 2011 12:16 Tewks44 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 12:10 Icekommander wrote:On September 29 2011 11:58 Tewks44 wrote:On September 29 2011 11:56 Redox wrote:On September 29 2011 11:55 Tewks44 wrote:On September 29 2011 11:53 Icekommander wrote:On September 29 2011 11:48 Spectorials wrote:
1/3 vs 3/3
doesn't mean a 100 supply difference at the end of a battle. upgrades don't do that much. it was all the EMPs... It was EMPs plus the upgrade advantage plus medivacs plus the lack of solid AOE DPS coming out from White-Ra. The colossus didn't last long enough against the vikings, and having a upgrade disadvantage and no FFs make gateway units almost completely useless. DeMuslims composition was simply superior in every way. White-Ra had Colossi and Immortals. What AoE did DeMuslim have again (besides EMP)? I guess it's a double standard when it comes to TvP So, EMP is such a bad AoE that you dont even think its necessary to include it in this equation? No, I was just not including EMP because people are saying White-Ra had no AoE when he had more AoE units than DeMuslim. I just think it's odd that people are saying White-Ra needed more AoE to try to explain the incredible lop-sidedness of that battle This is because Protoss is not the same as Terran. Gateway units are much less effective than Terran units at raw DPS (Especially with upgrade disadvantage). However the trade-off for this is that Terran armies are exceedingly compact, thus making them much more vulnerable to AOE attacks. This effect is compounded by the fact that a marine has only 45 hitpoints (post-stim) which makes them far squishier than zealots and stalkers. Also, EMP does a ridiculous amount of damage to Archon based armies. One hundred damage is more than storm does if you stand in it for all four seconds. This is particularly effective versus Archon based armies (which White-Ra's largely was) who can easily rack up shield damage very fast from multiple EMPs So protoss should have teched to HT with storm storm which is very expensive, still not as effective as EMP (you said it yourself) and just as vulnerable to being negated by EMP as archons?
Uh what? Whitra had a shitton of resources at one point, and he was on templar tech for a very long time. And I'd argue storm is far better than EMP in those battles, assuming you can get the storm off, which is harder than getting the EMP off. But if you get it off, it's far more in favor of toss.
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Sheth playing so well
Learning to macro from Ret, clearly 
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On September 29 2011 12:21 Holykitty wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 12:15 TT1 wrote:On September 29 2011 11:53 Redox wrote:On September 29 2011 11:48 TT1 wrote:On September 29 2011 11:40 ptbl wrote:
No storms or feedbacks from white-ra. how is he gonna feedback his ghosts when theyre in the middle of t's army? kinda hard to click on ghosts when their all bunched up with marines, also hts vs ghosts micro battles are never cost efficient for the toss because snipe outranges feedback and emp does aoe dmg all demuslim needed was 2 emps, hitting 2 emps x 100 dmg on like 50 toss units reduces 5k hitpoints instantaneously, kinda makes it easy for t's bio to clean up(especially after theyre 3-3) afterwards because of their high dps Watch same replays from HasuObs, he seems to be winning the late game battles vs terrans all the time. Also, lets not forget that Protoss has the warp-in mechanic which helps tremendously late game. Guess Protoss needs to spead out late game and not put all eggs into one basket. i base my arguments off of perfect execution and gameplay, theoretically if both players are playing perfectly and are at the same skill level the terran will always outmicro the toss in ghost vs hts battles simply because ghosts outrange templars, watch bomber whenever he has ghosts and ull see how cost effective templars are ^.^ if ghosts couldnt beat templar, what would terran do vs templar? just make more colossus dood
I guess terran would have to spread out late game and not put all eggs into one basket 
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699 Posts
Poll: Sheth vs Cruncher G2Not worth it.... (8) 53% I like it! (4) 27% If you have time (3) 20% 15 total votes Your vote: Sheth vs Cruncher G2 (Vote): I like it!
(Vote): If you have time
(Vote): Not worth it....
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Alright Sheth! Made Cruncher look like he never had a chance.
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OUUUUUUCH.
"He's so cute he's trying to be HerO"
Can anyone else say BURRRRN?
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Well, 3 pretty easy Liquibet points today
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I enjoyed the casting and the games immensely tonight. Especially seeing Demuslim continue to affirm me for being a dedicated fan.
Lol @ Gretorp as always getting nervous talking to superstars like sheth and not being able to talk properrr porpproerl......properly. <3 u gretorp
As far as the HT vs Ghost discussion. I think Hero is making a believer out of me when I see him play versus any race. Protoss is not meant to bunch up their units. Especially against terrans.
I actually think all the races should take notice of this but I only play toss and watching our Hero play is definitely making me believe that we're not far behind the other races in terms of balance. Maybe terran is a bit stronger but I think with players like Hero and Sage we're about to see some changes.
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On September 29 2011 12:21 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Sheth playing so well Learning to macro from Ret, clearly
To be fair, sheth was always a beast when it came to macro. Maybe not on the level of Ret, but hes got some beastly macro too.
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On September 29 2011 12:35 Probasaur wrote:
I enjoyed the casting and the games immensely tonight. Especially seeing Demuslim continue to affirm me for being a dedicated fan.
Lol @ Gretorp as always getting nervous talking to superstars like sheth and not being able to talk properrr porpproerl......properly. <3 u gretorp
As far as the HT vs Ghost discussion. I think Hero is making a believer out of me when I see him play versus any race. Protoss is not meant to bunch up their units. Especially against terrans.
I actually think all the races should take notice of this but I only play toss and watching our Hero play is definitely making me believe that we're not far behind the other races in terms of balance. Maybe terran is a bit stronger but I think with players like Hero and Sage we're about to see some changes.
Yes I'm sure he makes the race look good when he beats foreigner Zergs like Idra and Lowely. But then watch his games vs Losira and Min, Yugioh, even Thorzain where he got 2-0ed in a pretty silly fashion, and return to a depressing reality.
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On September 29 2011 12:49 Olinim wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 12:35 Probasaur wrote:
I enjoyed the casting and the games immensely tonight. Especially seeing Demuslim continue to affirm me for being a dedicated fan.
Lol @ Gretorp as always getting nervous talking to superstars like sheth and not being able to talk properrr porpproerl......properly. <3 u gretorp
As far as the HT vs Ghost discussion. I think Hero is making a believer out of me when I see him play versus any race. Protoss is not meant to bunch up their units. Especially against terrans.
I actually think all the races should take notice of this but I only play toss and watching our Hero play is definitely making me believe that we're not far behind the other races in terms of balance. Maybe terran is a bit stronger but I think with players like Hero and Sage we're about to see some changes. Yes I'm sure he makes the race look good when he beats foreigner Zergs like Idra and Lowely. But then watch his games vs Losira and Min, Yugioh, even Thorzain where he got 2-0ed in a pretty silly fashion, and return to a depressing reality.
min and yugioh isn't all too fair to gauge the skill level. vs min he did a really bad dt rush and spent 5 minutes running around the map deciding what to do when min blindly put up spores. and vs yugioh the last game he got cheesed on the worst map for protoss by far.
losira, well. yeah losira is a beast, hero isn't at that level yet.
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On September 29 2011 12:15 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 11:53 Redox wrote:On September 29 2011 11:48 TT1 wrote:On September 29 2011 11:40 ptbl wrote:
No storms or feedbacks from white-ra. how is he gonna feedback his ghosts when theyre in the middle of t's army? kinda hard to click on ghosts when their all bunched up with marines, also hts vs ghosts micro battles are never cost efficient for the toss because snipe outranges feedback and emp does aoe dmg all demuslim needed was 2 emps, hitting 2 emps x 100 dmg on like 50 toss units reduces 5k hitpoints instantaneously, kinda makes it easy for t's bio to clean up(especially after theyre 3-3) afterwards because of their high dps Watch same replays from HasuObs, he seems to be winning the late game battles vs terrans all the time. Also, lets not forget that Protoss has the warp-in mechanic which helps tremendously late game. Guess Protoss needs to spead out late game and not put all eggs into one basket. i base my arguments off of perfect execution and gameplay, theoretically if both players are playing perfectly and are at the same skill level the terran will always outmicro the toss in ghost vs hts battles simply because ghosts outrange templars, watch bomber whenever he has ghosts and ull see how cost effective templars are ^.^
It's not super hard to click the ghosts considering they're the only unit you can feedback and ther'es huge purple bars near them. The purple bars show with health, don't they? I just realized I've never noticed...! Maybe I'm wrong. Either way I don't think feedbacks were very feasible in that situation.
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On September 29 2011 12:15 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 11:53 Redox wrote:On September 29 2011 11:48 TT1 wrote:On September 29 2011 11:40 ptbl wrote:
No storms or feedbacks from white-ra. how is he gonna feedback his ghosts when theyre in the middle of t's army? kinda hard to click on ghosts when their all bunched up with marines, also hts vs ghosts micro battles are never cost efficient for the toss because snipe outranges feedback and emp does aoe dmg all demuslim needed was 2 emps, hitting 2 emps x 100 dmg on like 50 toss units reduces 5k hitpoints instantaneously, kinda makes it easy for t's bio to clean up(especially after theyre 3-3) afterwards because of their high dps Watch same replays from HasuObs, he seems to be winning the late game battles vs terrans all the time. Also, lets not forget that Protoss has the warp-in mechanic which helps tremendously late game. Guess Protoss needs to spead out late game and not put all eggs into one basket. i base my arguments off of perfect execution and gameplay, theoretically if both players are playing perfectly and are at the same skill level the terran will always outmicro the toss in ghost vs hts battles simply because ghosts outrange templars, watch bomber whenever he has ghosts and ull see how cost effective templars are ^.^
Uhh, what about warp prisms with speed upgrade? Seriously, consistent use of warp prism has yet to be seen, and they're ridiculously effective when someone actually uses it correctly.
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On September 29 2011 12:49 Olinim wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 12:35 Probasaur wrote:
I enjoyed the casting and the games immensely tonight. Especially seeing Demuslim continue to affirm me for being a dedicated fan.
Lol @ Gretorp as always getting nervous talking to superstars like sheth and not being able to talk properrr porpproerl......properly. <3 u gretorp
As far as the HT vs Ghost discussion. I think Hero is making a believer out of me when I see him play versus any race. Protoss is not meant to bunch up their units. Especially against terrans.
I actually think all the races should take notice of this but I only play toss and watching our Hero play is definitely making me believe that we're not far behind the other races in terms of balance. Maybe terran is a bit stronger but I think with players like Hero and Sage we're about to see some changes. Yes I'm sure he makes the race look good when he beats foreigner Zergs like Idra and Lowely. But then watch his games vs Losira and Min, Yugioh, even Thorzain where he got 2-0ed in a pretty silly fashion, and return to a depressing reality.
Did you not see him play in the WCG??? MKP and Horror got roflstomped
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EPT
