Obligatory public note for all large tournament threads:
The following is a list of behaviors that will get immediate bans:
1. Whining about stream 2. Bashing other games 3. Flaming other users 4. Bashing players 5. Complaining about imbalance.
It is in no way complete. Keep in mind that there's a difference between pointing out that the SC2 and CoD streams were switched and whining about it (same thing on pointing out/asking about stream lag and whining about it, etc.). Also, just because you post something and aren't immediately banned for it doesn't mean you won't get caught. We'll be going through this thread very carefully.
On August 27 2011 14:22 Xxavi wrote: I know that HongUn has been one of the more consistent Protosses in GSL, but I can see why Artosis and others make fun of him. He just feels a gimmicky type of player. Never did I watch him and felt very solid play, abundance of class, if you will.
Kinda what you feel when you watch Nestea, MVP, MC, Bomber etc. It's just not there with HongUn. Mostly, it's all shaky, gimmicky play. It's not a surprise that he is not a real contender for GSL either, for me.
Being criticized by a player 1/1000th their skill is a joke
That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do.
Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt
That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B.
Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot.
Winning a PvP series is great and all but it doesn't make you good. Hongun takes way too many risks to be considered good, and the only reason he's considered good in Korea is that there are so few competitive Protoss there.
Okay let's not pretend that HongUn isn't rank 13 in the GSL. He has won more than just a PvP series.
What does that have to do to refute my statement? You cited his MC series, one of the most volatile matchups against a player that is very good. Winning that series doesn't make Hongun great. The fact that he's 13th ranked in the GSL means very little. Jinro is 16th and Sanzenith is 11th.
Edit: Changed bad sentence structure
If MC isn't a great protoss, who is? I don't see anybody better than him in the race.
Puzzle, Genius, Alicia, Trickster, Tassadar, but he was once upon a time the best.
MC won't even get through up/down if he continues playing as bad as he does lately.
It's really interesting that Puma is player against Wannabecool. Somebody better warn Puma that he is a cheeser. He was probably the only person in the open bracket capable of beating Puma because he could cheese him out.
On August 27 2011 14:22 Xxavi wrote: I know that HongUn has been one of the more consistent Protosses in GSL, but I can see why Artosis and others make fun of him. He just feels a gimmicky type of player. Never did I watch him and felt very solid play, abundance of class, if you will.
Kinda what you feel when you watch Nestea, MVP, MC, Bomber etc. It's just not there with HongUn. Mostly, it's all shaky, gimmicky play. It's not a surprise that he is not a real contender for GSL either, for me.
Being criticized by a player 1/1000th their skill is a joke
That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do.
Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt
That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B.
Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot.
Winning a PvP series is great and all but it doesn't make you good. Hongun takes way too many risks to be considered good, and the only reason he's considered good in Korea is that there are so few competitive Protoss there.
Okay let's not pretend that HongUn isn't rank 13 in the GSL. He has won more than just a PvP series.
What does that have to do to refute my statement? You cited his MC series, one of the most volatile matchups against a player that is very good. Winning that series doesn't make Hongun great. The fact that he's 13th ranked in the GSL means very little. Jinro is 16th and Sanzenith is 11th.
Edit: Changed bad sentence structure
OMG not sure if you're serious. PvP is not volatile MU, it does take skill, otherwise MC wouldn't have that high win ratio in PvP. HongUn played unexpectedly in that series and MC was terrible. Not much to say about it, just like Keen beat Bomber, no surprise at all. Stop discredit him, he's second most consistent Protoss in GSL. He's been in GSL since the first season. He plays gimmicky and all-in sometimes, but it's more fun to watch rather than some boring ass players. No one makes carriers and mothership rush like him. He's the second BEST protoss in GSL right now. Don't even compare Alicia,Tester, Puzzle or anypro with him ok.
The best part about hongun is that half the time he plays he doesn't give a fuck, and still stays in code s more consistently than the big pr0s like MC, and MVP.
On August 27 2011 15:22 Tuba wrote: Not sure where to ask this.. so I'll do it here.. Does anyone have an idea how much bandwidth MLG ultra stream takes up if you watch on and off throughout the day? I can't tell if Comcast is being retarded.. or if I really used 19gigs of bandwidth doing nothing but streaming MLG.
ultra streams at about 1mbps or right around there, if you leave it on 24/7 you'd use 10gb in one day. should be safe, but i'd leave a bandwidth monitor program on just to check in case
On August 27 2011 15:26 LicH. wrote: The best part about hongun is that half the time he plays he doesn't give a fuck, and still stays in code s more consistently than the big pr0s like MC, and MVP.
Hongun is a boss
with how volatile the code S format is, it's no wonder you see some players drop to up and down when they're not expected to. 24/32 players stay now, and as long as you win 1 game of 3 you have a very real chance of staying (hi clide). hongun staying in code S really doesn't mean anything. he's still a gimmicky/all-in ish type of player like his fellow teammate anypro
On August 27 2011 14:25 wats0n wrote: [quote] Being criticized by a player 1/1000th their skill is a joke
That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do.
Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt
That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B.
Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot.
Winning a PvP series is great and all but it doesn't make you good. Hongun takes way too many risks to be considered good, and the only reason he's considered good in Korea is that there are so few competitive Protoss there.
Okay let's not pretend that HongUn isn't rank 13 in the GSL. He has won more than just a PvP series.
What does that have to do to refute my statement? You cited his MC series, one of the most volatile matchups against a player that is very good. Winning that series doesn't make Hongun great. The fact that he's 13th ranked in the GSL means very little. Jinro is 16th and Sanzenith is 11th.
Edit: Changed bad sentence structure
If MC isn't a great protoss, who is? I don't see anybody better than him in the race.
Puzzle, Genius, Alicia, Trickster, Tassadar, but he was once upon a time the best.
MC won't even get through up/down if he continues playing as bad as he does lately.
Hahaha trickster better than MC. Coca is also better than Nestea. they see me trollin...
On August 27 2011 15:26 LicH. wrote: The best part about hongun is that half the time he plays he doesn't give a fuck, and still stays in code s more consistently than the big pr0s like MC, and MVP.
Hongun is a boss
The only reason people like hongun, rain, thebest, all those type of players get insane hate is because of Tastosis. I have nothing against them, I love the guys but when they brand a player bad the sheep follow without forming their own opinion, and the never take back their opinion. They will call these players bad until the end of time. It really sucks because these players could beat any foreigners at any moment.
On August 27 2011 14:25 wats0n wrote: [quote] Being criticized by a player 1/1000th their skill is a joke
That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do.
Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt
That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B.
Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot.
Winning a PvP series is great and all but it doesn't make you good. Hongun takes way too many risks to be considered good, and the only reason he's considered good in Korea is that there are so few competitive Protoss there.
Okay let's not pretend that HongUn isn't rank 13 in the GSL. He has won more than just a PvP series.
What does that have to do to refute my statement? You cited his MC series, one of the most volatile matchups against a player that is very good. Winning that series doesn't make Hongun great. The fact that he's 13th ranked in the GSL means very little. Jinro is 16th and Sanzenith is 11th.
Edit: Changed bad sentence structure
If MC isn't a great protoss, who is? I don't see anybody better than him in the race.
Puzzle, Genius, Alicia, Trickster, Tassadar, but he was once upon a time the best.
MC won't even get through up/down if he continues playing as bad as he does lately.
Actually I don't see anyone there skill wise being better than MC, Puzzle might come close, but he needs more time to prove himself.
On August 27 2011 14:28 GrungyMunchy wrote: [quote] That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do.
Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt
That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B.
Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot.
You really think that your starcraft knowledge is deeper than his?
He's a hipster. He likes to be a contrapuntal just to look cool if his opinions get proven correct later. I don't need to know more than him or less than him to spot his ridiculous criticisms of players. If you ride a guy and then he goes on to make top four in the hardest league in the world and then you still ride him you only lose credibility.
Dude.. oGsInca were a finalist not long ago, and he played HORRIBLY in alot of those games. This game has enough random elements for less than great players to go far. An easy group and a bit of luck and you're all set.
You don't understand. Artosis makes criticisms of players that are PROVEN WRONG and he doesn't budge. I have no problem with him making a prediction or giving his opinion but when he is wrong he is wrong. There's no reason to argue reality.
When HongUn makes top 4 and then makes top 16 and Artosis is still trashing him, literally trashing his ability, then there's no reason to take him serious. Artosis doesn't even have any evidence why he's bad. Just like he doesn't when he calls Polt overrated, San bad, Zenio worse than some players in Code B...
Polt was overrated, extremely. I would suggest he still is. San was bad, very bad, before his run. And he's still in Code B now, so its not like he's been flying high ever since. How can you deny Zenio is worse than some players in Code B? San is in Code B, whom apparently you think is fantastic. There are some very brilliant players in Code B. There are a decent number of players in Code S that are worse than players in Code B. What about Kyrix? People are still moving around in the GSL.
He called San bad before he had a period where he played amazingly well. MMA and DRG were both Code B a month ago. MVP and MKP both fell to Code A. San is actually a really good player. The point is that Artosis called him bad and then we all saw how that turned out.
Polt is not overrated. If anything he is underrated. And he's one of the most successful SC2 players in the game's existence so far.
You didn't hear the context in which he called Zenio worse than players in Code B. He said it while saying that he wouldn't say that about the other people in Zenio's group but it's okay to say it about Zenio. Then Zenio stomps Byun and asd. Good call Artosis!
That's the thing though, Code S is still filled with people that aren't Code S caliber. Zenio and Byun for instance. Throw in Clide, Virus, Hong-un, and Kyrix also. Ensnare, Genius, and Trickster are even walking the line. I'm by no means saying that they're bad, If anything i definitely consider most of them to be solid code A. Looking past tourney results and actually paying attention to each of their games, there is nothing amazing, innovative, or exciting about their play. At least in my eyes, there is a very noticeable difference in the play of these listed players, and everyone else in code S. Someone mentioned it in an earlier post and it rings very true, never have I watched a game and thought that they were outclassing their opponent. There is nothing awe-inspiring about their play. Yes they get results and have maintained their class so far, but it's nothing that makes you think it will last for very much longer.
DRG better beast it up tomorrow! He had a poor showing against trickster, but still has the best zvt in the world. Sotg all predicting bomber to win, but I think drg can beat bomber when bomber is dropping games to machine and doesn't have the best tvz.
On August 27 2011 15:35 Canucklehead wrote: DRG better beast it up tomorrow! He had a poor showing against trickster, but still has the best zvt in the world. Sotg all predicting bomber to win, but I think drg can beat bomber when bomber is dropping games to machine and doesn't have the best tvz.
DRG will probably beat Bomber if/when they meet up.
I just hope DRG takes out Puma first, since Puma's going to be one of the two real competitors for a Code S spot. (Other one is, of course, HerO.) Bomber can get first place since it hurts nobody, but Puma's gotta go. I don't want another Terran in Code S. Sorry, Puma.
Is there any way of knowing which stream a specific bracket match will be on, or what time? I know they start at 11 (10 my time) and am hoping to catch the KawaiiRice / DeMusliM match. Its bracket 2 if that helps. Anyone know if its gonna be on blue or red, or is it yet to be determined? Thanks.
On August 27 2011 15:35 Canucklehead wrote: DRG better beast it up tomorrow! He had a poor showing against trickster, but still has the best zvt in the world. Sotg all predicting bomber to win, but I think drg can beat bomber when bomber is dropping games to machine and doesn't have the best tvz.
DRG will probably beat Bomber if/when they meet up.
I just hope DRG takes out Puma first, since Puma's going to be one of the two real competitors for a Code S spot. (Other one is, of course, HerO.) Bomber can get first place since it hurts nobody, but Puma's gotta go. I don't want another Terran in Code S. Sorry, Puma.
But PuMa still can get Code A right ? Only Koreans that are playing in Korean Teams cant get Code A, rest ofc can ( SelecT, mOonaN, PuMa ... right ? )
On August 27 2011 14:31 windsupernova wrote: [quote]
Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt
That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B.
Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot.
You really think that your starcraft knowledge is deeper than his?
He's a hipster. He likes to be a contrapuntal just to look cool if his opinions get proven correct later. I don't need to know more than him or less than him to spot his ridiculous criticisms of players. If you ride a guy and then he goes on to make top four in the hardest league in the world and then you still ride him you only lose credibility.
Dude.. oGsInca were a finalist not long ago, and he played HORRIBLY in alot of those games. This game has enough random elements for less than great players to go far. An easy group and a bit of luck and you're all set.
You don't understand. Artosis makes criticisms of players that are PROVEN WRONG and he doesn't budge. I have no problem with him making a prediction or giving his opinion but when he is wrong he is wrong. There's no reason to argue reality.
When HongUn makes top 4 and then makes top 16 and Artosis is still trashing him, literally trashing his ability, then there's no reason to take him serious. Artosis doesn't even have any evidence why he's bad. Just like he doesn't when he calls Polt overrated, San bad, Zenio worse than some players in Code B...
Polt was overrated, extremely. I would suggest he still is. San was bad, very bad, before his run. And he's still in Code B now, so its not like he's been flying high ever since. How can you deny Zenio is worse than some players in Code B? San is in Code B, whom apparently you think is fantastic. There are some very brilliant players in Code B. There are a decent number of players in Code S that are worse than players in Code B. What about Kyrix? People are still moving around in the GSL.
He called San bad before he had a period where he played amazingly well. MMA and DRG were both Code B a month ago. MVP and MKP both fell to Code A. San is actually a really good player. The point is that Artosis called him bad and then we all saw how that turned out.
Polt is not overrated. If anything he is underrated. And he's one of the most successful SC2 players in the game's existence so far.
You didn't hear the context in which he called Zenio worse than players in Code B. He said it while saying that he wouldn't say that about the other people in Zenio's group but it's okay to say it about Zenio. Then Zenio stomps Byun and asd. Good call Artosis!
That's the thing though, Code S is still filled with people that aren't Code S caliber. Zenio and Byun for instance. Throw in Clide, Virus, Hong-un, and Kyrix also. Ensnare, Genius, and Trickster are even walking the line. I'm by no means saying that they're bad, If anything i definitely consider most of them to be solid code A. Looking past tourney results and actually paying attention to each of their games, there is nothing amazing, innovative, or exciting about their play. At least in my eyes, there is a very noticeable difference in the play of these listed players, and everyone else in code S. Someone mentioned it in an earlier post and it rings very true, never have I watched a game and thought that they were outclassing their opponent. There is nothing awe-inspiring about their play. Yes they get results and have maintained their class so far, but it's nothing that makes you think it will last for very much longer.
Then tell us who deserved to be in code S anyway? if players like DRG could barely make it into code A, and stop right at R16. Then who else? Buyng was R4 last season, he beat Bomber in TvT. Zenio has been always a good macro Zerg, I'd say he's much much better than cheesy July. Clide is Artosis's crush who never goes further than R16. Kyrix doesn't deserved in Code S. Genius and Tester still very stable in code S.
On August 27 2011 15:45 blahz0r wrote: Can't wait to see some of the open bracket games tomorrow. PuMa vs wbc, HerO vs PainUser, and InKa vs Tyler.
HerO should stomp the ole PUser, but i'm glad to see at least pain has gotten some practice in. Tyler won last time Inka and he played, but Inka is really good and I would not be surprised if he's improved since, Tyler or Inka vs Hero should be a great PvP though my gut tells me hero takes it.
On August 27 2011 15:35 Canucklehead wrote: DRG better beast it up tomorrow! He had a poor showing against trickster, but still has the best zvt in the world. Sotg all predicting bomber to win, but I think drg can beat bomber when bomber is dropping games to machine and doesn't have the best tvz.
DRG will probably beat Bomber if/when they meet up.
I just hope DRG takes out Puma first, since Puma's going to be one of the two real competitors for a Code S spot. (Other one is, of course, HerO.) Bomber can get first place since it hurts nobody, but Puma's gotta go. I don't want another Terran in Code S. Sorry, Puma.
Yup DRG must get code s and puma and hero are his code s threats with the other koreans being code s already.
DRG just doesn't lose to terrans unless they're named mvp or mma and we saw nestea lose to those 2 as well.
His zvp is still suspect though and I haven't seen enough of his zvz to make a judgement either way.
EPT
