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Obligatory public note for all large tournament threads:
The following is a list of behaviors that will get immediate bans:
1. Whining about stream
2. Bashing other games
3. Flaming other users
4. Bashing players
5. Complaining about imbalance.
It is in no way complete. Keep in mind that there's a difference between pointing out that the SC2 and CoD streams were switched and whining about it (same thing on pointing out/asking about stream lag and whining about it, etc.). Also, just because you post something and aren't immediately banned for it doesn't mean you won't get caught. We'll be going through this thread very carefully.
That being said, enjoy today's games!
Time stamp: page 38, 6:23. |
On August 27 2011 14:46 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 14:39 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:35 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:31 windsupernova wrote:On August 27 2011 14:28 GrungyMunchy wrote:On August 27 2011 14:25 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:22 Xxavi wrote:
I know that HongUn has been one of the more consistent Protosses in GSL, but I can see why Artosis and others make fun of him. He just feels a gimmicky type of player. Never did I watch him and felt very solid play, abundance of class, if you will.
Kinda what you feel when you watch Nestea, MVP, MC, Bomber etc. It's just not there with HongUn. Mostly, it's all shaky, gimmicky play. It's not a surprise that he is not a real contender for GSL either, for me. Being criticized by a player 1/1000th their skill is a joke That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do. Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B. Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot. Ice is hot? what are you on? He is an expert whether you like it or not. He knows more about this game than anyone. I don't care what he said during one specific game, and I'm way too tired to go back and watch it again. Artosis has done huge amounts of good calls too. He knows the Korean scene as his own pocket. He's an expert commentator for crying out loud. You really think that your starcraft knowledge is deeper than his?
Calm down, nobody is saying that Artosis doesn't have Starcraft knowledge but he (from my most recent investigations) is actually a human, his opinion is not always right. And people have all the right in the world to disagree with him, especially in cases where the results agree with them
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On August 27 2011 14:49 wats0n wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 14:46 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:39 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:35 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:31 windsupernova wrote:On August 27 2011 14:28 GrungyMunchy wrote:On August 27 2011 14:25 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:22 Xxavi wrote:
I know that HongUn has been one of the more consistent Protosses in GSL, but I can see why Artosis and others make fun of him. He just feels a gimmicky type of player. Never did I watch him and felt very solid play, abundance of class, if you will.
Kinda what you feel when you watch Nestea, MVP, MC, Bomber etc. It's just not there with HongUn. Mostly, it's all shaky, gimmicky play. It's not a surprise that he is not a real contender for GSL either, for me. Being criticized by a player 1/1000th their skill is a joke That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do. Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B. Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot. You really think that your starcraft knowledge is deeper than his? He's a hipster. He likes to be a contrapuntal just to look cool if his opinions get proven correct later. I don't need to know more than him or less than him to spot his ridiculous criticisms of players. If you ride a guy and then he goes on to make top four in the hardest league in the world and then you still ride him you only lose credibility.
Dude.. oGsInca were a finalist not long ago, and he played HORRIBLY in alot of those games.
This game has enough random elements for less than great players to go far. An easy group and a bit of luck and you're all set.
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Didn't get to watch a single minute of the action today but from the looks of it the only way EG is placing anywhere is if PuMa tears through everyone
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On August 27 2011 14:50 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 14:38 hjkim1304 wrote:
In Korea, Hongun is considered as one of the best protosses. And I'm a fan of him too. Remember that he was probably only one of the few that made carriers and succeeded in GSL. Yeah but that was like in season... 3? wasn't it? Wasn't that the same season as when every single terran tugged all of their SCVs off their mineral line to almost 100% victory against zergs, and Rain was a finalist in the GSL? Alot's happened since then. I just don't think Hongun plays a solid style, that's all. He's not bad by any means, but he's far from a great player that will last, unlike Nestea, MVP, NaDa, MC etc.
Please see HongUn's results to discredit anything Artosis says about him. Oh, and HongUn 3-1'd MC as recently as last month.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Prime/Results#GSL
On August 27 2011 14:50 Euronyme wrote:
Dude.. oGsInca were a finalist not long ago, and he played HORRIBLY in alot of those games.
This game has enough random elements for less than great players to go far. An easy group and a bit of luck and you're all set
Edit - Again, check the results. He is one of the most consistent players of the past year (read: since GSL started). It's embarrassing to cite an easy group here or there as the reason for his success.
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On August 27 2011 14:45 wats0n wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 14:42 SimDawg wrote:On August 27 2011 14:39 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:35 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:31 windsupernova wrote:On August 27 2011 14:28 GrungyMunchy wrote:On August 27 2011 14:25 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:22 Xxavi wrote:
I know that HongUn has been one of the more consistent Protosses in GSL, but I can see why Artosis and others make fun of him. He just feels a gimmicky type of player. Never did I watch him and felt very solid play, abundance of class, if you will.
Kinda what you feel when you watch Nestea, MVP, MC, Bomber etc. It's just not there with HongUn. Mostly, it's all shaky, gimmicky play. It's not a surprise that he is not a real contender for GSL either, for me. Being criticized by a player 1/1000th their skill is a joke That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do. Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B. Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot. Winning a PvP series is great and all but it doesn't make you good. Hongun takes way too many risks to be considered good, and the only reason he's considered good in Korea is that there are so few competitive Protoss there. Okay let's not pretend that HongUn isn't rank 13 in the GSL. He has won more than just a PvP series.
What does that have to do to refute my statement? You cited his MC series, one of the most volatile matchups against a player that is very good. Winning that series doesn't make Hongun great. The fact that he's 13th ranked in the GSL means very little. Jinro is 16th and Sanzenith is 11th.
Edit: Changed bad sentence structure
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On August 27 2011 14:52 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 14:49 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:46 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:39 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:35 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:31 windsupernova wrote:On August 27 2011 14:28 GrungyMunchy wrote:On August 27 2011 14:25 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:22 Xxavi wrote:
I know that HongUn has been one of the more consistent Protosses in GSL, but I can see why Artosis and others make fun of him. He just feels a gimmicky type of player. Never did I watch him and felt very solid play, abundance of class, if you will.
Kinda what you feel when you watch Nestea, MVP, MC, Bomber etc. It's just not there with HongUn. Mostly, it's all shaky, gimmicky play. It's not a surprise that he is not a real contender for GSL either, for me. Being criticized by a player 1/1000th their skill is a joke That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do. Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B. Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot. You really think that your starcraft knowledge is deeper than his? He's a hipster. He likes to be a contrapuntal just to look cool if his opinions get proven correct later. I don't need to know more than him or less than him to spot his ridiculous criticisms of players. If you ride a guy and then he goes on to make top four in the hardest league in the world and then you still ride him you only lose credibility. Dude.. oGsInca were a finalist not long ago, and he played HORRIBLY in alot of those games. This game has enough random elements for less than great players to go far. An easy group and a bit of luck and you're all set.
You don't understand. Artosis makes criticisms of players that are PROVEN WRONG and he doesn't budge. I have no problem with him making a prediction or giving his opinion but when he is wrong he is wrong. There's no reason to argue reality.
When HongUn makes top 4 and then makes top 16 and Artosis is still trashing him, literally trashing his ability, then there's no reason to take him serious. Artosis doesn't even have any evidence why he's bad. Just like he doesn't when he calls Polt overrated, San bad, Zenio worse than some players in Code B...
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To be fair, Artosis stopped calling San bad a while ago when he actually started playing well and showing his improvement.
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On August 27 2011 14:54 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 14:45 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:42 SimDawg wrote:On August 27 2011 14:39 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:35 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:31 windsupernova wrote:On August 27 2011 14:28 GrungyMunchy wrote:On August 27 2011 14:25 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:22 Xxavi wrote:
I know that HongUn has been one of the more consistent Protosses in GSL, but I can see why Artosis and others make fun of him. He just feels a gimmicky type of player. Never did I watch him and felt very solid play, abundance of class, if you will.
Kinda what you feel when you watch Nestea, MVP, MC, Bomber etc. It's just not there with HongUn. Mostly, it's all shaky, gimmicky play. It's not a surprise that he is not a real contender for GSL either, for me. Being criticized by a player 1/1000th their skill is a joke That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do. Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B. Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot. Winning a PvP series is great and all but it doesn't make you good. Hongun takes way too many risks to be considered good, and the only reason he's considered good in Korea is that there are so few competitive Protoss there. Okay let's not pretend that HongUn isn't rank 13 in the GSL. He has won more than just a PvP series. What does that have to do to refute my statement? You cited his MC series, one of the most volatile matchups against a player that is very good, but not great. The fact that he's 13th ranked in the GSL means very little. Jinro is 16th and Sanzenith is 11th.
Did you just call MC "not great" or did i misconstrue your post?
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On August 27 2011 14:57 wats0n wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 14:52 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:49 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:46 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:39 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:35 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:31 windsupernova wrote:On August 27 2011 14:28 GrungyMunchy wrote:On August 27 2011 14:25 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:22 Xxavi wrote:
I know that HongUn has been one of the more consistent Protosses in GSL, but I can see why Artosis and others make fun of him. He just feels a gimmicky type of player. Never did I watch him and felt very solid play, abundance of class, if you will.
Kinda what you feel when you watch Nestea, MVP, MC, Bomber etc. It's just not there with HongUn. Mostly, it's all shaky, gimmicky play. It's not a surprise that he is not a real contender for GSL either, for me. Being criticized by a player 1/1000th their skill is a joke That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do. Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B. Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot. You really think that your starcraft knowledge is deeper than his? He's a hipster. He likes to be a contrapuntal just to look cool if his opinions get proven correct later. I don't need to know more than him or less than him to spot his ridiculous criticisms of players. If you ride a guy and then he goes on to make top four in the hardest league in the world and then you still ride him you only lose credibility. Dude.. oGsInca were a finalist not long ago, and he played HORRIBLY in alot of those games. This game has enough random elements for less than great players to go far. An easy group and a bit of luck and you're all set. You don't understand. Artosis makes criticisms of players that are PROVEN WRONG and he doesn't budge. I have no problem with him making a prediction or giving his opinion but when he is wrong he is wrong. There's no reason to argue reality. When HongUn makes top 4 and then makes top 16 and Artosis is still trashing him, literally trashing his ability, then there's no reason to take him serious. Artosis doesn't even have any evidence why he's bad. Just like he doesn't when he calls Polt overrated, San bad, Zenio worse than some players in Code B...
Because he plays a style that isn't solid. It's not fitted for everything. For christ sakes he's the guy who invented zealot / collosus.. That works great unless your enemy terran makes vikings.. which the enemy terran didn't so he won. I'd trash that too.
I'm not going to argue with a fanboi, but I'd say both HuK and Naniwa are way way way better protoss players than Hongon overall.
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On August 27 2011 14:54 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 14:45 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:42 SimDawg wrote:On August 27 2011 14:39 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:35 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:31 windsupernova wrote:On August 27 2011 14:28 GrungyMunchy wrote:On August 27 2011 14:25 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:22 Xxavi wrote:
I know that HongUn has been one of the more consistent Protosses in GSL, but I can see why Artosis and others make fun of him. He just feels a gimmicky type of player. Never did I watch him and felt very solid play, abundance of class, if you will.
Kinda what you feel when you watch Nestea, MVP, MC, Bomber etc. It's just not there with HongUn. Mostly, it's all shaky, gimmicky play. It's not a surprise that he is not a real contender for GSL either, for me. Being criticized by a player 1/1000th their skill is a joke That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do. Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B. Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot. Winning a PvP series is great and all but it doesn't make you good. Hongun takes way too many risks to be considered good, and the only reason he's considered good in Korea is that there are so few competitive Protoss there. Okay let's not pretend that HongUn isn't rank 13 in the GSL. He has won more than just a PvP series. What does that have to do to refute my statement? You cited his MC series, one of the most volatile matchups against a player that is very good, but that doesn't make Hongun great. The fact that he's 13th ranked in the GSL means very little. Jinro is 16th and Sanzenith is 11th. Edit: Changed bad sentence structure
MC isn't great? Which starleagues have YOU won recently? MC isn't great. Gtfo.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 27 2011 15:02 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 14:57 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:52 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:49 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:46 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:39 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:35 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:31 windsupernova wrote:On August 27 2011 14:28 GrungyMunchy wrote:On August 27 2011 14:25 wats0n wrote:
[quote]
Being criticized by a player 1/1000th their skill is a joke That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do. Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B. Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot. You really think that your starcraft knowledge is deeper than his? He's a hipster. He likes to be a contrapuntal just to look cool if his opinions get proven correct later. I don't need to know more than him or less than him to spot his ridiculous criticisms of players. If you ride a guy and then he goes on to make top four in the hardest league in the world and then you still ride him you only lose credibility. Dude.. oGsInca were a finalist not long ago, and he played HORRIBLY in alot of those games. This game has enough random elements for less than great players to go far. An easy group and a bit of luck and you're all set. You don't understand. Artosis makes criticisms of players that are PROVEN WRONG and he doesn't budge. I have no problem with him making a prediction or giving his opinion but when he is wrong he is wrong. There's no reason to argue reality. When HongUn makes top 4 and then makes top 16 and Artosis is still trashing him, literally trashing his ability, then there's no reason to take him serious. Artosis doesn't even have any evidence why he's bad. Just like he doesn't when he calls Polt overrated, San bad, Zenio worse than some players in Code B... Because he plays a style that isn't solid. It's not fitted for everything. For christ sakes he's the guy who invented zealot / collosus.. That works great unless your enemy terran makes vikings.. which the enemy terran didn't so he won. I'd trash that too. I'm not going to argue with a fanboi, but I'd say both HuK and Naniwa are way way way better protoss players than Hongon overall.
ehh they have similar winrates and they both have moments where they play like absolute crap. I'd say hongun and huk are kinda equal.
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On August 27 2011 15:02 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 14:57 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:52 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:49 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:46 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:39 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:35 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:31 windsupernova wrote:On August 27 2011 14:28 GrungyMunchy wrote:On August 27 2011 14:25 wats0n wrote:
[quote]
Being criticized by a player 1/1000th their skill is a joke That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do. Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B. Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot. You really think that your starcraft knowledge is deeper than his? He's a hipster. He likes to be a contrapuntal just to look cool if his opinions get proven correct later. I don't need to know more than him or less than him to spot his ridiculous criticisms of players. If you ride a guy and then he goes on to make top four in the hardest league in the world and then you still ride him you only lose credibility. Dude.. oGsInca were a finalist not long ago, and he played HORRIBLY in alot of those games. This game has enough random elements for less than great players to go far. An easy group and a bit of luck and you're all set. You don't understand. Artosis makes criticisms of players that are PROVEN WRONG and he doesn't budge. I have no problem with him making a prediction or giving his opinion but when he is wrong he is wrong. There's no reason to argue reality. When HongUn makes top 4 and then makes top 16 and Artosis is still trashing him, literally trashing his ability, then there's no reason to take him serious. Artosis doesn't even have any evidence why he's bad. Just like he doesn't when he calls Polt overrated, San bad, Zenio worse than some players in Code B... Because he plays a style that isn't solid. It's not fitted for everything. For christ sakes he's the guy who invented zealot / collosus.. That works great unless your enemy terran makes vikings.. which the enemy terran didn't so he won. I'd trash that too. I'm not going to argue with a fanboi, but I'd say both HuK and Naniwa are way way way better protoss players than Hongon overall.
How typical when somebody has nothing left they fall back on the "fanboy" remark. I'm not a fanboy. I'm just immune to Artosis's bullshit. He makes 20 dumb predictions and statements just on the off chance that he will hit on one and look like a genius. That's textbook egomania. Wake me up when Sage, Clide, or Alicia prove Artosis right.
Don't put Naniwa in the same breath as a top 13 GSL player. Let him start beating Koreans first.
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On August 27 2011 14:57 wats0n wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 14:52 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:49 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:46 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:39 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:35 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:31 windsupernova wrote:On August 27 2011 14:28 GrungyMunchy wrote:On August 27 2011 14:25 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:22 Xxavi wrote:
I know that HongUn has been one of the more consistent Protosses in GSL, but I can see why Artosis and others make fun of him. He just feels a gimmicky type of player. Never did I watch him and felt very solid play, abundance of class, if you will.
Kinda what you feel when you watch Nestea, MVP, MC, Bomber etc. It's just not there with HongUn. Mostly, it's all shaky, gimmicky play. It's not a surprise that he is not a real contender for GSL either, for me. Being criticized by a player 1/1000th their skill is a joke That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do. Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B. Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot. You really think that your starcraft knowledge is deeper than his? He's a hipster. He likes to be a contrapuntal just to look cool if his opinions get proven correct later. I don't need to know more than him or less than him to spot his ridiculous criticisms of players. If you ride a guy and then he goes on to make top four in the hardest league in the world and then you still ride him you only lose credibility. Dude.. oGsInca were a finalist not long ago, and he played HORRIBLY in alot of those games. This game has enough random elements for less than great players to go far. An easy group and a bit of luck and you're all set. You don't understand. Artosis makes criticisms of players that are PROVEN WRONG and he doesn't budge. I have no problem with him making a prediction or giving his opinion but when he is wrong he is wrong. There's no reason to argue reality. When HongUn makes top 4 and then makes top 16 and Artosis is still trashing him, literally trashing his ability, then there's no reason to take him serious. Artosis doesn't even have any evidence why he's bad. Just like he doesn't when he calls Polt overrated, San bad, Zenio worse than some players in Code B...
Polt was overrated, extremely. I would suggest he still is. San was bad, very bad, before his run. And he's still in Code B now, so its not like he's been flying high ever since. How can you deny Zenio is worse than some players in Code B? San is in Code B, whom apparently you think is fantastic. There are some very brilliant players in Code B. There are a decent number of players in Code S that are worse than players in Code B. What about Kyrix? People are still moving around in the GSL.
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On August 27 2011 15:05 Jinivus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 15:02 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:57 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:52 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:49 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:46 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:39 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:35 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:31 windsupernova wrote:On August 27 2011 14:28 GrungyMunchy wrote:
[quote]
That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do. Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B. Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot. You really think that your starcraft knowledge is deeper than his? He's a hipster. He likes to be a contrapuntal just to look cool if his opinions get proven correct later. I don't need to know more than him or less than him to spot his ridiculous criticisms of players. If you ride a guy and then he goes on to make top four in the hardest league in the world and then you still ride him you only lose credibility. Dude.. oGsInca were a finalist not long ago, and he played HORRIBLY in alot of those games. This game has enough random elements for less than great players to go far. An easy group and a bit of luck and you're all set. You don't understand. Artosis makes criticisms of players that are PROVEN WRONG and he doesn't budge. I have no problem with him making a prediction or giving his opinion but when he is wrong he is wrong. There's no reason to argue reality. When HongUn makes top 4 and then makes top 16 and Artosis is still trashing him, literally trashing his ability, then there's no reason to take him serious. Artosis doesn't even have any evidence why he's bad. Just like he doesn't when he calls Polt overrated, San bad, Zenio worse than some players in Code B... Because he plays a style that isn't solid. It's not fitted for everything. For christ sakes he's the guy who invented zealot / collosus.. That works great unless your enemy terran makes vikings.. which the enemy terran didn't so he won. I'd trash that too. I'm not going to argue with a fanboi, but I'd say both HuK and Naniwa are way way way better protoss players than Hongon overall. ehh they have similar winrates and they both have moments where they play like absolute crap. I'd say hongun and huk are kinda equal.
Zealot collosus dude.. Fucking zealot collosus PvT.
Imo judging a players skill is more than win rates. As I said, there's a bitbybit effect. I might be wrong, and Hongun is actually good, but man he sure does a good job hiding it.
Last from me, I promise.
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Guys any recommended games? I haven't caught it live TT
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On August 27 2011 15:06 wats0n wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 15:02 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:57 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:52 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:49 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:46 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:39 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:35 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:31 windsupernova wrote:On August 27 2011 14:28 GrungyMunchy wrote:
[quote]
That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do. Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B. Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot. You really think that your starcraft knowledge is deeper than his? He's a hipster. He likes to be a contrapuntal just to look cool if his opinions get proven correct later. I don't need to know more than him or less than him to spot his ridiculous criticisms of players. If you ride a guy and then he goes on to make top four in the hardest league in the world and then you still ride him you only lose credibility. Dude.. oGsInca were a finalist not long ago, and he played HORRIBLY in alot of those games. This game has enough random elements for less than great players to go far. An easy group and a bit of luck and you're all set. You don't understand. Artosis makes criticisms of players that are PROVEN WRONG and he doesn't budge. I have no problem with him making a prediction or giving his opinion but when he is wrong he is wrong. There's no reason to argue reality. When HongUn makes top 4 and then makes top 16 and Artosis is still trashing him, literally trashing his ability, then there's no reason to take him serious. Artosis doesn't even have any evidence why he's bad. Just like he doesn't when he calls Polt overrated, San bad, Zenio worse than some players in Code B... Because he plays a style that isn't solid. It's not fitted for everything. For christ sakes he's the guy who invented zealot / collosus.. That works great unless your enemy terran makes vikings.. which the enemy terran didn't so he won. I'd trash that too. I'm not going to argue with a fanboi, but I'd say both HuK and Naniwa are way way way better protoss players than Hongon overall. How typical when somebody has nothing left they fall back on the "fanboy" remark. I'm not a fanboy. I'm just immune to Artosis's bullshit. He makes 20 dumb predictions and statements just on the off chance that he will hit on one and look like a genius. That's textbook egomania. Wake me up when Sage, Clide, or Alicia prove Artosis right. Don't put Naniwa in the same breath as a top 13 GSL player. Let him start beating Koreans first.
Dude most of his stuff is entirely of the humorous variety. He knows himself that Clide isn't the next next next GSL champion. its just for fun. The guy isn't perfect but he definitely knows his SC2.
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On August 27 2011 15:08 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 14:57 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:52 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:49 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:46 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:39 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:35 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:31 windsupernova wrote:On August 27 2011 14:28 GrungyMunchy wrote:On August 27 2011 14:25 wats0n wrote:
[quote]
Being criticized by a player 1/1000th their skill is a joke That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do. Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B. Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot. You really think that your starcraft knowledge is deeper than his? He's a hipster. He likes to be a contrapuntal just to look cool if his opinions get proven correct later. I don't need to know more than him or less than him to spot his ridiculous criticisms of players. If you ride a guy and then he goes on to make top four in the hardest league in the world and then you still ride him you only lose credibility. Dude.. oGsInca were a finalist not long ago, and he played HORRIBLY in alot of those games. This game has enough random elements for less than great players to go far. An easy group and a bit of luck and you're all set. You don't understand. Artosis makes criticisms of players that are PROVEN WRONG and he doesn't budge. I have no problem with him making a prediction or giving his opinion but when he is wrong he is wrong. There's no reason to argue reality. When HongUn makes top 4 and then makes top 16 and Artosis is still trashing him, literally trashing his ability, then there's no reason to take him serious. Artosis doesn't even have any evidence why he's bad. Just like he doesn't when he calls Polt overrated, San bad, Zenio worse than some players in Code B... Polt was overrated, extremely. I would suggest he still is. San was bad, very bad, before his run. And he's still in Code B now, so its not like he's been flying high ever since. How can you deny Zenio is worse than some players in Code B? San is in Code B, whom apparently you think is fantastic. There are some very brilliant players in Code B. There are a decent number of players in Code S that are worse than players in Code B. What about Kyrix? People are still moving around in the GSL.
He called San bad before he had a period where he played amazingly well. MMA and DRG were both Code B a month ago. MVP and MKP both fell to Code A. San is actually a really good player. The point is that Artosis called him bad and then we all saw how that turned out.
Polt is not overrated. If anything he is underrated. And he's one of the most successful SC2 players in the game's existence so far.
You didn't hear the context in which he called Zenio worse than players in Code B. He said it while saying that he wouldn't say that about the other people in Zenio's group but it's okay to say it about Zenio. Then Zenio stomps Byun and asd. Good call Artosis!
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On August 27 2011 14:54 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 14:45 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:42 SimDawg wrote:On August 27 2011 14:39 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:35 Euronyme wrote:On August 27 2011 14:31 windsupernova wrote:On August 27 2011 14:28 GrungyMunchy wrote:On August 27 2011 14:25 wats0n wrote:On August 27 2011 14:22 Xxavi wrote:
I know that HongUn has been one of the more consistent Protosses in GSL, but I can see why Artosis and others make fun of him. He just feels a gimmicky type of player. Never did I watch him and felt very solid play, abundance of class, if you will.
Kinda what you feel when you watch Nestea, MVP, MC, Bomber etc. It's just not there with HongUn. Mostly, it's all shaky, gimmicky play. It's not a surprise that he is not a real contender for GSL either, for me. Being criticized by a player 1/1000th their skill is a joke That was never a good point to be made, I have no idea why people keep saying stuff like this. You can criticize something you yourself can't do, that's what art/music/movie critics do. Yeah but Lets be honest Artosis has made so many wrong calls that people should really take him with a grain of salt That's not about him 'calling' something. It's about Hongun not playing solid. Artosis is an expert commentator who watches everything starcraft for a living. If he says someone isn't playing solid, He ain't playing solid. He might still do well though (bitbybit-effect) but it's not going to last unless he seriously switches up his play. The game is still young, and there are still people high up who don't deserve to be there in comparison to many in code B. Except that he may as well be arguing that ice is hot in some of those HongUn series and that destroys his credibility on the subject. Hardly makes him an expert if he's going to say something that is completely wrong and untrue. Go back and watch HongUn vs. MC. Look for Artosis's comments. You can't take him serious on the issue and if you do then you probably would agree that ice is hot. Winning a PvP series is great and all but it doesn't make you good. Hongun takes way too many risks to be considered good, and the only reason he's considered good in Korea is that there are so few competitive Protoss there. Okay let's not pretend that HongUn isn't rank 13 in the GSL. He has won more than just a PvP series. What does that have to do to refute my statement? You cited his MC series, one of the most volatile matchups against a player that is very good. Winning that series doesn't make Hongun great. The fact that he's 13th ranked in the GSL means very little. Jinro is 16th and Sanzenith is 11th. Edit: Changed bad sentence structure
If MC isn't a great protoss, who is? I don't see anybody better than him in the race.
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Not sure where to ask this.. so I'll do it here.. Does anyone have an idea how much bandwidth MLG ultra stream takes up if you watch on and off throughout the day? I can't tell if Comcast is being retarded.. or if I really used 19gigs of bandwidth doing nothing but streaming MLG.
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Actually I'd say that Hongun is pretty underrated considering how pretty much every one labels him as 'crap' - while he does play quite gimmicky in a lot of his games, but at the same time you are being biased against him if you don't acknowledge that he has some pretty sick skills at certain things, especially when it comes to phoenix usage in PvT. Watch the GSL game against Clide on Belshir Beach, he did massive damage with just 4~5 phoenixes the entire game while doing a very solid job on the macro.
Seriously, very very few protosses can do such good phoenix control while keeping up macro wise, its extremely difficult to do, and he's doing it with near-retirement bad wrists, so people should cut him a bit of slack considering that imo~
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EPT
