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On August 08 2011 16:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 16:25 Zinthar wrote:On August 08 2011 16:18 AxionSteel wrote:
LOL @ the troll saying he just amoved marines. If any faction needs uber micro, it's terran. Terran is obviously extremely strong in the right hands, but it's very micro intensive, perhaps that is why it's so strong as it has a high skill ceiling.
Great play from Jjakji! Such Dynamic games. Gotta agree with this completely -- for the vast majority of players, probably up to and including the best foreigners (with maybe a few exceptions), the game is quite balanced. Some of these god tier Koreans, however, have marine micro that's so incredible that they're able to extract just that little extra DPS that seems to make a big difference? So perhaps at that level the terran ceiling is just a little bit higher. What's the answer? God tier zergling/baneling micro? Hard to say because the zerglings/banes lack range, but can close the space quickly if the engagement numbers and spacing are right... NesTea, show us the light! Zergs can take away the micro with flanking or infestors and then finishing the marines off with banelings. Luvsic played well but he definitely didn't play on the same level as jjakji
Right, I was alluding to that, but summarizing what one should do is completely different from seeing it well-executed in a match between top-level Koreans. The best example that sticks out in my mind is NesTea vs. MVP in Game 1 of the January Code S semis on Xel'Naga Caverns.
But that was a long time ago...
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Lol Ganzi got through in the way everyone expected.
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i've become a fan of ogsluvsic's play i sincerely hope he re-qualifies soon!
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Man... we are going to enter the second era of "OMG TERRAN OP WTF LOLOL NERF" aren't we? It's frustrating. I mean, I like to see more than one race dominate, but I also like to see the metagame evolve naturally. I also think zerg is a good race even if they don't have the versatility of terran. I will admit protoss seems to have some fundamental issues in general... at the same time, I really loathe whining. I'll straight up admit that my opinions on balance aren't worth shit. I wish other people realized this.
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I think those saying Jjakji didn't have good splits were all watching the free stream occasionally while doing something else.
In all big engagements Jjakji split his marines before he went to engage and then kept doing it under the medivacs and mutas. I'm sure that was difficult to see for you all with shit resolution and a passing interest.
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On August 08 2011 16:30 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 16:28 Cream wrote:On August 08 2011 16:20 DoomsVille wrote:On August 08 2011 16:16 Hammer442 wrote:On August 08 2011 16:15 Cream wrote:On August 08 2011 16:13 Taf the Ghost wrote:On August 08 2011 16:12 ShootingStars wrote:On August 08 2011 16:12 Sc2Null wrote:
sighs..why can't we get really good zergs in code A....floating 1kmins and being supply blocked for about 45 secs isn't good. He was out of larvae... couldnt get the extra base up. It's normal. He ever make a macro hatch? Macro hatches shouldn't be necessary, he had no larva because he only has lings for defense early game which take up so much larva. Look how many he had to throw away vs the bunkers at the start. Roaches man. Tell that to all the top zergs who frequently make a macro hatch before a third these days. Losira, DRG and IdrA to name a few who always macro hatches Yea... macro hatch is pretty much a necessity in ZvT if you're going muta/ling/bling. You absolutely need a third hatch around the time your spire is finishing because without it you wouldn't have enough larva to spend your minerals (mutas so gas heavy). And you can't place that at an expansion because that generally spreads you out too much (need the mutas for map control). So your only option is a macro hatch. This is why I'm saying macro hatches shouldn't be necessary if you play safe by at least building a roach warren so you have the option of using less larva to defend if you think you can get away with using roaches (they cost 25 gas, they absolutely will not delay mutas THAT much). Too many times Zs go muta/ling/bane with absolutely no backup plan then they get massacred by mass marine/tank/medivac. With roaches you can also put pressure early game/even force the T to go marauders because you can hit them before siege tanks are out. Sorry if I seem really adamant about roaches early game, trying to figure out how to safely block BFH/marine pressure early game. And a roach warren takes 150 minerals, it wouldn't be too hard to incorporate it into their BOs In a Muta/Ling/Bling style, you use less Minerals, at full saturation on 2 bases, than you can spend, relative to Gas & Larve. That's why you build a Macro Hatch. Plus, it gives you the ability to store up a lot of extra Larve and flood Zerglings if you need to.
I know how muta/ling/banes work in terms of economy  The point I'm trying to make is that there's a difference in getting a macro hatch because you can afford it due to having a nice economy and it complements your unit comp well/larva storage and getting it every time because you feel like you absolutely need it to defend pushes or whatever. I think if as Z you play it safe while increasing your economy (read: not hatch first drone drone) you will have the economy to back up the macro hatch to the point where you can get your third beforehand, and not have enough economy to go for the macro hatch right off the bat. It leaves you too weak vT because of siege tanks and mass marines
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On August 08 2011 16:28 Cream wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 16:20 DoomsVille wrote:On August 08 2011 16:16 Hammer442 wrote:On August 08 2011 16:15 Cream wrote:On August 08 2011 16:13 Taf the Ghost wrote:On August 08 2011 16:12 ShootingStars wrote:On August 08 2011 16:12 Sc2Null wrote:
sighs..why can't we get really good zergs in code A....floating 1kmins and being supply blocked for about 45 secs isn't good. He was out of larvae... couldnt get the extra base up. It's normal. He ever make a macro hatch? Macro hatches shouldn't be necessary, he had no larva because he only has lings for defense early game which take up so much larva. Look how many he had to throw away vs the bunkers at the start. Roaches man. Tell that to all the top zergs who frequently make a macro hatch before a third these days. Losira, DRG and IdrA to name a few who always macro hatches Yea... macro hatch is pretty much a necessity in ZvT if you're going muta/ling/bling. You absolutely need a third hatch around the time your spire is finishing because without it you wouldn't have enough larva to spend your minerals (mutas so gas heavy). And you can't place that at an expansion because that generally spreads you out too much (need the mutas for map control). So your only option is a macro hatch. This is why I'm saying macro hatches shouldn't be necessary if you play safe by at least building a roach warren so you have the option of using less larva to defend if you think you can get away with using roaches (they cost 25 gas, they absolutely will not delay mutas THAT much). Too many times Zs go muta/ling/bane with absolutely no backup plan then they get massacred by mass marine/tank/medivac. With roaches you can also put pressure early game/even force the T to go marauders because you can hit them before siege tanks are out. Sorry if I seem really adamant about roaches early game, trying to figure out how to safely block BFH/marine pressure early game. And a roach warren takes 150 minerals, it wouldn't be too hard to incorporate it into their BOs
The problem with roaches are they are worthless in the early game (except for defense). They can't get aggressive because they are so slow. How often do you see roaches causing substantial damage in the early game? Yea it happens... but it's rare.
Lings atleast give you map control.
Zerg's get greedy and try to avoid roaches as much as possible because they don't do anything but take gas, waste supply (they're extremely supply inefficient) and delay tech. And blings/spines can do really well holding off BFH/marines with proper control (although roaches are the easier solution).
But anyways, I was just talking about macro hatches in general. If you don't need to make defensive roaches then you absolutely need a macro hatch.
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On August 08 2011 02:20 MrCon wrote:
Will Fruitdealer and MKP disappear forever ? /
On August 08 2011 16:18 MrCon wrote:
jjakji = mkp when he was good (nowadays mkp doesn't even do mkp splits anymore)
dude!  sounds like you givin' up on marineking why you say such things! YOU MUST BELIEVE!
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VODs already being uploaded.
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On August 08 2011 16:30 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 16:28 Cream wrote:On August 08 2011 16:20 DoomsVille wrote:On August 08 2011 16:16 Hammer442 wrote:On August 08 2011 16:15 Cream wrote:On August 08 2011 16:13 Taf the Ghost wrote:On August 08 2011 16:12 ShootingStars wrote:On August 08 2011 16:12 Sc2Null wrote:
sighs..why can't we get really good zergs in code A....floating 1kmins and being supply blocked for about 45 secs isn't good. He was out of larvae... couldnt get the extra base up. It's normal. He ever make a macro hatch? Macro hatches shouldn't be necessary, he had no larva because he only has lings for defense early game which take up so much larva. Look how many he had to throw away vs the bunkers at the start. Roaches man. Tell that to all the top zergs who frequently make a macro hatch before a third these days. Losira, DRG and IdrA to name a few who always macro hatches Yea... macro hatch is pretty much a necessity in ZvT if you're going muta/ling/bling. You absolutely need a third hatch around the time your spire is finishing because without it you wouldn't have enough larva to spend your minerals (mutas so gas heavy). And you can't place that at an expansion because that generally spreads you out too much (need the mutas for map control). So your only option is a macro hatch. This is why I'm saying macro hatches shouldn't be necessary if you play safe by at least building a roach warren so you have the option of using less larva to defend if you think you can get away with using roaches (they cost 25 gas, they absolutely will not delay mutas THAT much). Too many times Zs go muta/ling/bane with absolutely no backup plan then they get massacred by mass marine/tank/medivac. With roaches you can also put pressure early game/even force the T to go marauders because you can hit them before siege tanks are out. Sorry if I seem really adamant about roaches early game, trying to figure out how to safely block BFH/marine pressure early game. And a roach warren takes 150 minerals, it wouldn't be too hard to incorporate it into their BOs Regardless of larva or not, he spent a lot less minerals/gas defending with lings than he would have with roaches. He defended perfectly and he could afford the macro hatch. Roaches really aren't that great for pressuring unless you invest a lot in them early on, and what you really want for map control are mutas, not slow roaches.
Map control doesn't really mean anything if they have the forces to crush you because your economy can't produce a force to rival it, you saw how jjakji had turrets up and everything available to nullify luvsic's muta/ling/bane play. Obviously jjakji outclassed luvsic in that series but I can't help but wonder how incorporating roach play could change the matchup. You can clearly see the early BFH/marine composition should beat mass speedling/spines, and I really think you use up too much larva in that situation going pure lings even if you have spines to help defend
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On August 08 2011 16:40 Giriath wrote:
VODs already being uploaded.
Wow, they're moving fast today.
I'm still in a state of shock about FD not dropping to Code B. It is a pleasant feeling to have, though, not gonna lie.
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On August 08 2011 16:35 Sideburn wrote:
Man... we are going to enter the second era of "OMG TERRAN OP WTF LOLOL NERF" aren't we? It's frustrating. I mean, I like to see more than one race dominate, but I also like to see the metagame evolve naturally. I also think zerg is a good race even if they don't have the versatility of terran. I will admit protoss seems to have some fundamental issues in general... at the same time, I really loathe whining. I'll straight up admit that my opinions on balance aren't worth shit. I wish other people realized this.
Its kinda funny this whole Terran OP is coming back when the most recent Code A final was a PvP and the most recent Code S final was a ZvZ.
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
Jjakji's a fucking boss, anyone got a quick summary for me of the 2 games because he's the only player I really cared about seeing advance?
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On August 08 2011 16:43 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 16:35 Sideburn wrote:
Man... we are going to enter the second era of "OMG TERRAN OP WTF LOLOL NERF" aren't we? It's frustrating. I mean, I like to see more than one race dominate, but I also like to see the metagame evolve naturally. I also think zerg is a good race even if they don't have the versatility of terran. I will admit protoss seems to have some fundamental issues in general... at the same time, I really loathe whining. I'll straight up admit that my opinions on balance aren't worth shit. I wish other people realized this. Its kinda funny this whole Terran OP is coming back when the most recent Code A final was a PvP and the most recent Code S final was a ZvZ.
Not to mention that zergs won 2 major foreign events recently. The only event which Terran has outright dominated is when MLG decided that bringing over 4 Korean top level Terrans was a good idea.
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United States97276 Posts
On August 08 2011 16:16 fant0m wrote:
That was just crazy. Jjakji so good.
3/4 on LB.... stupid Maru I blindly antibet on FD without watching any of Maru's games.
Do we really have to wait hours now? -_-
I did the same thing as you I figured after getting owned last season and losing to all terrans in the up and downs FD had no chance
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Just started watching the vods now.
DREAM THEATER in the GSL!
bestest esports on the planet :D
I hope FD and DRG make it.
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3/4 - I bet on Luvsic 'cause I love oGs and wanted to see a better racial balance in the next round.
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Jjakji and MKP could and probably will meet each other in the Ro8. UNGGGGHHHH.
Too bad Jjakji will dominate MKP.
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On August 08 2011 16:10 RPR_Tempest wrote:
4/4 liquibet and bracket contest :D
you sure you posted the right gracket? I'm 100% on it too
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On August 08 2011 16:48 skrzmark wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 16:10 RPR_Tempest wrote:
4/4 liquibet and bracket contest :D you sure you posted the right gracket? I'm 100% on it too
I see what you did there.
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EPT
