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Alright, its truly time to stop whining. Stop caster bashing also. Be warned. |
White-ra ... just doesn't lose ...
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On July 31 2011 17:30 DizzyDrone wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 17:15 Hierarch wrote:On July 31 2011 17:11 DizzyDrone wrote:
I disagree. Let me use White-Ra as an example. In order to qualify for pool play in MLG Raleigh he has to place at least 6th, and even then he's not guaranteed a spot. To end up top 6, at least one of the Korean players will have to drop a series. If White-Ra doesn't end up at least 6th he will once again have to go through the stacked open bracket in Raleigh.
I can understand that they want to reward people who frequently take part in MLG tournaments, but
at the moment it's just too hard to place high enough to even earn rank points while the players seeded in the pools earn points even if they lose every match they play. If someone makes it through code A and then doesn't pass his up/down group he has to go through the stacked code A tournament again. Also the qualifiers to get into code A are even more brutal, they're not even double elimination like MLG is. It's not a perfect system by any means, but it's not as bad as everyone seems to make it out to be. If you lose every match in code S you won't be there next season. If you win every match in code A you are assured a spot in the up/down matches and have a good chance at getting into code S. Imagine BitByBit still being in code S because he placed relatively high a few seasons ago. Imagine MVP being stuck in code A because his second place finish wasn't enough. That's essentially what's happening now.
That's not true, if you lose every game in code s but win your up and down match you're still in code s. Also if MVP got 2nd at an MLG he would have earned enough points to be seeded into the championship bracket.
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This pretty much sums up the day for me. Can't wait for day 3.
![[image loading]](http://i51.tinypic.com/t043ue.jpg)
I think day9 likes nukes.
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did Huk play any games in day 2?
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On July 31 2011 17:51 dbddbddb wrote:
did Huk play any games in day 2?
Haypro and Tyler
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On July 31 2011 17:35 Maghetti wrote:
The story line of this MLG feels like a battle between DRG and the SlayerS terrans. Both are in Code B and are Code S level players wanting that spot. DRG said he was training mostly for the top korean terrans for this tournament, and the SlayerS terrans have come with this new style almost certainly built to beat DRG. It is a radically different style, so it will be hard to find the optimal way to combat it in such a short amount of time.
its just so funny how DRG has yet to play one of the slayers guys -_-
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On July 31 2011 17:15 CellTech wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 17:14 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 31 2011 17:11 DizzyDrone wrote:On July 31 2011 17:01 Hierarch wrote:On July 31 2011 16:54 Mordiford wrote:On July 31 2011 16:52 Hierarch wrote:On July 31 2011 16:49 Mordiford wrote:On July 31 2011 16:46 Namkung wrote:On July 31 2011 16:39 Serpico wrote:On July 31 2011 16:38 toadyy wrote:
EGs bootcamp was time well spent... Are you saying someone should produce noticeable results after a few weeks of practice against top tier players? That's nonsensical. Who are you even refering to when you say "top" players? lol At this point, I wouldn't even consider idra to be a top player when compared to the Koreans and no one else in EG really is even close to being considered a top player As much as I may not like him, I still think IdrA is a "top" player, he manages to remain competitive at a high level. But yeah, no one else on EG is a top player to be honest, if the other EG guys dropped out, I think it'd be quite unlikely for any of them to pull a Tyler and make it back in. DeMusliM is quite good, he's shown very good TvT and TvP I was talking more about the ones currently in pool play, Machine and inControl, but even DeMuslim has had a pretty hard time in the open bracket, it's really rough and I think it's sad that the format is unfair to them when many of them could probably take out the weak links of the pools. GSL's Code S took a very long time to get the weak players cycled out, like check, thebest, hyperdub, rainbow etc... It just takes time, the final tournament will be the most high quality due to the amount of time and weeding of players occur before it. I disagree. Let me use White-Ra as an example. In order to qualify for pool play in MLG Raleigh he has to place at least 6th, and even then he's not guaranteed a spot. To end up top 6, at least one of the Korean players will have to drop a series. If White-Ra doesn't make it to top 6 he will once again have to go through the stacked open bracket in Raleigh. I can understand that they want to reward people who frequently take part in MLG tournaments, but at the moment it's just too hard to place high enough to even earn rank points while the players seeded in the pools earn points even if they lose every match they play. The real problem with the Rank Points system right now is that they're importing 4 Koreans each LAN that are pretty much assured a Top 16 finish. That's really eating up (and preventing knocking off) the weaker players in the Pools. That's clearly not the REAL problem. As an above poster said, if you are seeded from a previous tourney, you can lose EVERY game and still get points from the epic fail of a weekend.
If the rank points from last years events decayed it wouldn't be a problem at all. Some of the players like Huk are benefiting from a strong showing last year since he hasn't attended all of the events, but others are riding the fact that they have earned points at every event so they have more points than better players even though they haven't had a good showing since Raleigh or DC last year. They keep getting points because it's almost automatic to earn points if you're already seeded. A few of the players have dropped down this event though so maybe the cleansing will continue and weed everyone out before providence.
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On July 31 2011 17:17 Scribble wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 17:11 CellTech wrote:
PvP doesn't count.
mother of all coin flips
TvT and ZvZ for the most part, reward the better player.
That's a terrible argument. If PvP was a coinflip then all high level protoss would have roughly a 50% win-rate in PvP. Either your argument is absurd or MC (among others) is playing with some really weird coins.
I think it's generally accepted that of the 6 matchups, PvP is the most coinflip.
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Kinda funny that all four groups have the results
1. 5:0
2. 4:1
3. 3.2
4. 2.3
5. 1.4
6. 0.5
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On July 31 2011 18:00 CellTech wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 17:17 Scribble wrote:On July 31 2011 17:11 CellTech wrote:
PvP doesn't count.
mother of all coin flips
TvT and ZvZ for the most part, reward the better player.
That's a terrible argument. If PvP was a coinflip then all high level protoss would have roughly a 50% win-rate in PvP. Either your argument is absurd or MC (among others) is playing with some really weird coins. I think it's generally accepted that of the 6 matchups, PvP is the most coinflip.
Oh, ok. So it's not that players like MC are generally better at the match-up. He just has better coins.
That totally makes more sense than people calling it a coin flip because it is punishes them for inferior execution.
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I think it's funnier that the home of Starcraft [2] seems to be migrating to the West, but you have to go east, to win in the West. irony :D
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On July 31 2011 18:09 CellTech wrote:
I think it's funnier that the home of Starcraft [2] seems to be migrating to the West, but you have to go east, to win in the West. irony :D
The home is moving to the West, the players from the East are going to keep winning everything easily. So far, every tourney Koreans went to was won by them, even low-level Koreans.
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On July 31 2011 17:48 Hierarch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 17:30 DizzyDrone wrote:On July 31 2011 17:15 Hierarch wrote:On July 31 2011 17:11 DizzyDrone wrote:
I disagree. Let me use White-Ra as an example. In order to qualify for pool play in MLG Raleigh he has to place at least 6th, and even then he's not guaranteed a spot. To end up top 6, at least one of the Korean players will have to drop a series. If White-Ra doesn't end up at least 6th he will once again have to go through the stacked open bracket in Raleigh.
I can understand that they want to reward people who frequently take part in MLG tournaments, but
at the moment it's just too hard to place high enough to even earn rank points while the players seeded in the pools earn points even if they lose every match they play. If someone makes it through code A and then doesn't pass his up/down group he has to go through the stacked code A tournament again. Also the qualifiers to get into code A are even more brutal, they're not even double elimination like MLG is. It's not a perfect system by any means, but it's not as bad as everyone seems to make it out to be. If you lose every match in code S you won't be there next season. If you win every match in code A you are assured a spot in the up/down matches and have a good chance at getting into code S. Imagine BitByBit still being in code S because he placed relatively high a few seasons ago. Imagine MVP being stuck in code A because his second place finish wasn't enough. That's essentially what's happening now. That's not true, if you lose every game in code s but win your up and down match you're still in code s. Also if MVP got 2nd at an MLG he would have earned enough points to be seeded into the championship bracket.
Even after 3 events in and 3 Koreans not returning, a 7th place would seed you into a Pool next time. So, like I said earlier, it's really the fact that 4 Koreans that placed highly last time didn't come back (include July in that too).
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On July 31 2011 18:14 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 17:48 Hierarch wrote:On July 31 2011 17:30 DizzyDrone wrote:On July 31 2011 17:15 Hierarch wrote:On July 31 2011 17:11 DizzyDrone wrote:
I disagree. Let me use White-Ra as an example. In order to qualify for pool play in MLG Raleigh he has to place at least 6th, and even then he's not guaranteed a spot. To end up top 6, at least one of the Korean players will have to drop a series. If White-Ra doesn't end up at least 6th he will once again have to go through the stacked open bracket in Raleigh.
I can understand that they want to reward people who frequently take part in MLG tournaments, but
at the moment it's just too hard to place high enough to even earn rank points while the players seeded in the pools earn points even if they lose every match they play. If someone makes it through code A and then doesn't pass his up/down group he has to go through the stacked code A tournament again. Also the qualifiers to get into code A are even more brutal, they're not even double elimination like MLG is. It's not a perfect system by any means, but it's not as bad as everyone seems to make it out to be. If you lose every match in code S you won't be there next season. If you win every match in code A you are assured a spot in the up/down matches and have a good chance at getting into code S. Imagine BitByBit still being in code S because he placed relatively high a few seasons ago. Imagine MVP being stuck in code A because his second place finish wasn't enough. That's essentially what's happening now. That's not true, if you lose every game in code s but win your up and down match you're still in code s. Also if MVP got 2nd at an MLG he would have earned enough points to be seeded into the championship bracket. Even after 3 events in and 3 Koreans not returning, a 7th place would seed you into a Pool next time. So, like I said earlier, it's really the fact that 4 Koreans that placed highly last time didn't come back (include July in that too).
I agree with this, shuffling Koreans in and out messes up the point system because of how well they do.
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On July 31 2011 18:13 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 18:09 CellTech wrote:
I think it's funnier that the home of Starcraft [2] seems to be migrating to the West, but you have to go east, to win in the West. irony :D The home is moving to the West, the players from the East are going to keep winning everything easily. So far, every tourney Koreans went to was won by them, even low-level Koreans.
Dreamhack and Homestory Cup. Not that your general point that Koreans > white dudes for the most isn't right, but your argument is a bit off.
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On July 31 2011 18:07 Scribble wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 18:00 CellTech wrote:On July 31 2011 17:17 Scribble wrote:On July 31 2011 17:11 CellTech wrote:
PvP doesn't count.
mother of all coin flips
TvT and ZvZ for the most part, reward the better player.
That's a terrible argument. If PvP was a coinflip then all high level protoss would have roughly a 50% win-rate in PvP. Either your argument is absurd or MC (among others) is playing with some really weird coins. I think it's generally accepted that of the 6 matchups, PvP is the most coinflip. Oh, ok. So it's not that players like MC are generally better at the match-up. He just has better coins. That totally makes more sense than people calling it a coin flip because it is punishes them for inferior execution.
So your argument is "PvP is not coinflippy! Look at :: insert best Protoss players name :: !" ?
strong argument.
You are just taking an anomaly (gosu MC) and using him as your main argument.
And who are these 'players like MC' you keep mentioning? Afaik, MC is the only Protoss to win a GSL (twice)
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On July 31 2011 18:15 Hierarch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 18:14 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 31 2011 17:48 Hierarch wrote:On July 31 2011 17:30 DizzyDrone wrote:On July 31 2011 17:15 Hierarch wrote:On July 31 2011 17:11 DizzyDrone wrote:
I disagree. Let me use White-Ra as an example. In order to qualify for pool play in MLG Raleigh he has to place at least 6th, and even then he's not guaranteed a spot. To end up top 6, at least one of the Korean players will have to drop a series. If White-Ra doesn't end up at least 6th he will once again have to go through the stacked open bracket in Raleigh.
I can understand that they want to reward people who frequently take part in MLG tournaments, but
at the moment it's just too hard to place high enough to even earn rank points while the players seeded in the pools earn points even if they lose every match they play. If someone makes it through code A and then doesn't pass his up/down group he has to go through the stacked code A tournament again. Also the qualifiers to get into code A are even more brutal, they're not even double elimination like MLG is. It's not a perfect system by any means, but it's not as bad as everyone seems to make it out to be. If you lose every match in code S you won't be there next season. If you win every match in code A you are assured a spot in the up/down matches and have a good chance at getting into code S. Imagine BitByBit still being in code S because he placed relatively high a few seasons ago. Imagine MVP being stuck in code A because his second place finish wasn't enough. That's essentially what's happening now. That's not true, if you lose every game in code s but win your up and down match you're still in code s. Also if MVP got 2nd at an MLG he would have earned enough points to be seeded into the championship bracket. Even after 3 events in and 3 Koreans not returning, a 7th place would seed you into a Pool next time. So, like I said earlier, it's really the fact that 4 Koreans that placed highly last time didn't come back (include July in that too). I agree with this, shuffling Koreans in and out messes up the point system because of how well they do.
And while they're technically only assured a 32nd finish, since they aren't sending scrubs, it's a bit higher than that.
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I'm also pretty happy that MVP is playing well. He really hadn't been showing really well lately, and it's nice to see him playing a good chunk better. Maybe he's more meant for LANs than time-delayed tournaments. Or something was really wrong with his wrists and he's better now.
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On July 31 2011 17:09 NuclearJudas wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 17:07 blooblooblahblah wrote:On July 31 2011 16:57 Benga wrote:I dont get why  iNcontroL is seeded. Have a look at his TLPD he's a horrible player and hasnt won a match at anehaim. I dont think he's even embarassed about his results. You could always see him saying in interviews that the opponent was so good since BW why shouldnt he shape up So beating Choya dosen't count as winning a match? Tyler was the one that beat Choya. Also, I just noticed that Rain is 5 - 0. Kid must have improved immensely after leaving GSL.
Nah, Koreans don't need to improve to beat most foreigners. DRG said in the interview before MLG that he only looking forward to play Koreans in champion bracket since he will win his Pool play no problem.
Rain is actually godly if you compare him to foreigners, he only looks gimmicky or inferior when versus code S Koreans.
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On July 31 2011 18:17 Scribble wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 18:13 hmunkey wrote:On July 31 2011 18:09 CellTech wrote:
I think it's funnier that the home of Starcraft [2] seems to be migrating to the West, but you have to go east, to win in the West. irony :D The home is moving to the West, the players from the East are going to keep winning everything easily. So far, every tourney Koreans went to was won by them, even low-level Koreans. Dreamhack and Homestory Cup. Not that your general point that Koreans > white dudes for the most isn't right, but your argument is a bit off.
DH Top4, 3 koreans and 1 guy who lives & pracs in Korea.
Homestory: 1 Korean participant: MC, 3rd place (eliminated by HuK who he later crushed in GSL)
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EPT
