EPTSHOUTcraft Invitational 2 - Electric Banelinggoo - Page 17
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Jonneh
United Kingdom67 Posts
On July 20 2011 00:15 nam nam wrote: It's common knowledge that a player hasn't been invited to a tournament that hasn't announced half of it's players yet? Do you know he would even accept? Idra's got plenty of invitations anyway, I don't see why you have to make a fool out of yourself in this thread for such a non issue. Uh yes, its common knowledge he's not been invited. http://twitter.com/#!/Totalbiscuit/status/80794871815864320 Again, it may be a non-issue for you but it really isn't for me and I'm sure others. Its an irritating side show to the sport I enjoy watching. | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
Instead of IdrA we're going to see eight players who are equally or more deserving in TB's eyes fight it out and it's gonna be awesome. | ||
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Jonneh
United Kingdom67 Posts
On July 20 2011 00:28 StarVe wrote: You're trying to make it sound like it's a big thing that needs to be "resolved", an "issue" that needs to be "confronted" while everyone else agrees that it's not. I'm sorry to say, but whether or not you think that the exclusion of IdrA diminishes the event is not particular relevant. Instead of IdrA we're going to see eight players who are equally or more deserving in TB's eyes fight it out and it's gonna be awesome. "Everyone else" is a big claim for you to make. If I am the only person in the whole community to care about this, then I do apologise. Even if true though, it doesn't really prevent me from shining a light on the issue. I'm sure all the other players are great. Idra is one of the best non-koreans though, as I'm sure you could agree his results at tournaments show with the possible exception of the most recent. Again, if I am the only person in the whole community who'd like to see him playing then I apologise, but I really don't think I am. | ||
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Jonneh
United Kingdom67 Posts
On July 20 2011 00:19 Nifel wrote: Thank you for the elaborate response. Though, I must say that I find it slightly surprising that you've chosen to stay out of the community and the discussions during your many years here on TL.net. Especially considering there are several individuals who, over the years, have stirred up equal if not greater drama! I can imagine a person with interests and opinions such as yours must have been tempted to partake in the discussions. I guess you've got especially strong opinions about TotalBiscuit and his work. Anyway, now when you're a posting member of the community, let me take this chance to welcome you to TL.net! Also, I must say I'm really happy with TB's choice of co-caster. dApollo is an excellent choice and complements TB very well. While he was great already back at the i42 (or was it the i41?) I feel he's improved a lot since then. Thank you for the welcome. What can I say, I felt the need to find a voice recently?  I do enjoy dApollo's casting. Dreamhack with him and Day9 was a great viewing experience. | ||
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OrderlyChaos
United States1115 Posts
On July 20 2011 00:34 Jonneh wrote: "Everyone else" is a big claim for you to make. If I am the only person in the whole community to care about this, then I do apologise. Even if true though, it doesn't really prevent me from shining a light on the issue. I'm sure all the other players are great. Idra is one of the best non-koreans though, as I'm sure you could agree his results at tournaments show with the possible exception of the most recent. Again, if I am the only person in the whole community who'd like to see him playing then I apologise, but I really don't think I am. You can see Idra play in many other events, if that's truly all you care about. This is TB's invitational, and if he doesn't care to give Idra a free $100 (at least), then it's his prerogative. He's invited many players in both this tournament and the previous tournament who are skilled and have also shown strong tournament results, along with players that are skilled, but not as heavily e-famous (I would consider Stephano, Nerchio, etc as part of this group). He is under no obligation to have the players that you believe are the best in his tournament, and I don't know if he'd be that bothered by losing some viewers because of it. | ||
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Jonneh
United Kingdom67 Posts
On July 20 2011 00:38 OrderlyChaos wrote: You can see Idra play in many other events, if that's truly all you care about. This is TB's invitational, and if he doesn't care to give Idra a free $100 (at least), then it's his prerogative. He's invited many players in both this tournament and the previous tournament who are skilled and have also shown strong tournament results, along with players that are skilled, but not as heavily e-famous (I would consider Stephano, Nerchio, etc as part of this group). He is under no obligation to have the players that you believe are the best in his tournament, and I don't know if he'd be that bothered by losing some viewers because of it. I don't doubt that you're correct on every point there. My only rebuttal being that I find the reasons for his absolute exclusion to be childish and beneath the standard to which we should all hope to aspire. If you read my first post in this thread, you'd probably find I am just as critical of idra for this situation. It takes two to tango, as they say. | ||
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foen
Netherlands111 Posts
On July 20 2011 00:34 Jonneh wrote: "Everyone else" is a big claim for you to make. If I am the only person in the whole community to care about this, then I do apologise. Even if true though, it doesn't really prevent me from shining a light on the issue. I'm sure all the other players are great. Idra is one of the best non-koreans though, as I'm sure you could agree his results at tournaments show with the possible exception of the most recent. Again, if I am the only person in the whole community who'd like to see him playing then I apologise, but I really don't think I am. Noone is stopping you from putting up $2600 and inviting who you want. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
Both of the Zerg I've invited so far are more interesting in my opinion than IdrA at this point. They are posting consistently good results, they are placing similarly to him. IdrA is out of practice and will probably remain in decline until this EG Teamhouse gets going, he's not as interesting as either Nerchio or Sheth and I'd rather have them in my tournament than him. That'd be the case even if he hadn't insulted me. You wanna know what the great thing about sponsoring your own invitational is? You get to invite who you like and nobody has any right to criticise you for it. When it comes to picking players for this tournament I pick a mix that I think will create an interesting tournament. SHOUTcraft Invitational was started as a way to provide a very positive, fun tournament for everyone where people would discuss the matchs, not the drama. Bringing IdrA into it adds nothing, hell I'd expect him to lose, ragequit, BM one of the players who most likely did not deserve it and then the LR thread degenerates into arguments about him, completely overshadowing the tournament. It's a genius marketing ploy on his part and those love-to-hate personalities work, but y'know what? I don't want them in my tournament. And once again, that's assuming I needed to justify my reasons for not inviting him beyond "he was a dick to me on public forums on more than one occasion and I don't tend to give my money to people who flame me". There is no reason to believe that any critic in this thread would act any differently. | ||
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Jonneh
United Kingdom67 Posts
On July 20 2011 00:44 Sated wrote: This assumes that IdrA should 100% be in with these 8 players and that his exclusion is against some sort of natural order. Not the case. Stop being daft. I'm sorry I don't understand this point. We know he isn't included because of the public comments and arguments made. If he was simply not invited for incidental reasons, or indeed he himself declined because he couldn't spare the time and so on I should say things would be quite different. | ||
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SgtCoDFish
United Kingdom1520 Posts
On July 20 2011 00:57 Jonneh wrote: I'm sorry I don't understand this point. We know he isn't included because of the public comments and arguments made. If he was simply not invited for incidental reasons, or indeed he himself declined because he couldn't spare the time and so on I should say things would be quite different. Would you give $100 randomly to someone who called you terrible at your job? Think about it. Even if a player loses in the first round they're guaranteed money. That means by inviting him, TotalBiscuit would be promising to give IdrA $100. Why the hell would he do that? If people really want an invitational with IdrA in, then make one yourself with your own money and get out of this thread. This is a man GIVING AWAY his money to entertain people. If you can't be entertained without IdrA, then that's your choice and you can choose to not watch. On topic: great looking tourney so far, TB. Will tune in like my life depends on it if my internet can handle it :D | ||
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sztanpet
Hungary44 Posts
I am looking forward to this great event, and wish TB the best of luck with things (as we all know, something always goes bad, so heres to hoping nothing major will). | ||
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wklbishop
United States1286 Posts
On July 20 2011 00:41 Jonneh wrote: I don't doubt that you're correct on every point there. My only rebuttal being that I find the reasons for his absolute exclusion to be childish and beneath the standard to which we should all hope to aspire. If you read my first post in this thread, you'd probably find I am just as critical of idra for this situation. It takes two to tango, as they say. If you find TB childish then don't watch his tournament and boycott it. He's being childish? So what? You have no right to tell him what to do with his money. You yourself have every right to blow $2600 on a tournament for a community that happens to criticize/flame you every step of the way. And at the end of the day, you have to give props to TB because there wouldn't be a tournament in the first place without him. At the very least say thank you to the guy. Heck, you just keep on saying it's childish but you acknowledge that he has every right to do what he does. So what's your point, say it's childish and not watch it and just move on. You can criticize him all you want, but he doesn't have to do anything you say nor respond nor should he. | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
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OrderlyChaos
United States1115 Posts
On July 20 2011 01:13 Telcontar wrote: Sheth is a very nice addition. Looking forward to seeing more terrans on the list! My bet is on Kas, Demuslim and maybe Tarson. I would say you're wrong on merit of lack of the starting letter 'S,' but I think he might be running out of S players to invite except for perhaps Sjow. I'd like to see if Demuslim has managed to return his game to where it was, but that'd be an invite more on potential than result. I'd like to see Kas or Tarson though. | ||
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Jonneh
United Kingdom67 Posts
On July 20 2011 00:53 TotalBiscuit wrote: It's very easy for critics who contribute so little to come along and claim that they would "bury the hatchet" with someone who has gone out of his way, along with his teammate, to attack their character and would happily give money out of their own pocket to that person. They will never be in a position where they have to put their money where their mouth is, so they can claim this imaginary moral highground. Both of the Zerg I've invited so far are more interesting in my opinion than IdrA at this point. They are posting consistently good results, they are placing similarly to him. IdrA is out of practice and will probably remain in decline until this EG Teamhouse gets going, he's not as interesting as either Nerchio or Sheth and I'd rather have them in my tournament than him. That'd be the case even if he hadn't insulted me. You wanna know what the great thing about sponsoring your own invitational is? You get to invite who you like and nobody has any right to criticise you for it. When it comes to picking players for this tournament I pick a mix that I think will create an interesting tournament. SHOUTcraft Invitational was started as a way to provide a very positive, fun tournament for everyone where people would discuss the matchs, not the drama. Bringing IdrA into it adds nothing, hell I'd expect him to lose, ragequit, BM one of the players who most likely did not deserve it and then the LR thread degenerates into arguments about him, completely overshadowing the tournament. It's a genius marketing ploy on his part and those love-to-hate personalities work, but y'know what? I don't want them in my tournament. And once again, that's assuming I needed to justify my reasons for not inviting him beyond "he was a dick to me on public forums on more than one occasion and I don't tend to give my money to people who flame me". There is no reason to believe that any critic in this thread would act any differently. I thank you for the eventual response, but wish to highlight a few issues I have. For one, saying I or anyone else has "no right to criticize" is completely incorrect. I can criticize you both for acting this way. You've both said things about each other which have no real place in a public forum. You make a big point in your tweets and videos saying that trolling and trolls are reprehensible. What would you call two esports personalities having at each other, saying how terrible at casting each other are, and so forth? Seems like you were trolling each other very effectively there. You also make a big point of calling people a hypocrite when you believe them to be acting so. (earlier in this very thread, in fact) Is it not fair to say that its pretty hypocritical of you to act like that in a public way with a player of the esport you support? What did that argument bring to anything except drama? I'm not really asking you to justify your reasons. We all know your reasons, it was made quite public what they are. What I am saying is that I find it to be childish that two adults put their own pride and ego ahead of the game. I would welcome attempts by either party to resolve the matter so that we don't have to discuss it, and so it is not an issue for future events. | ||
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Jonneh
United Kingdom67 Posts
On July 20 2011 01:21 Sated wrote: Complaining about IdrA not being included assumes he has some sort of right to be there. It assumes that excluding him goes against some sort of natural order. It doesn't. The reason he's not being invited doesn't matter one bit because it's pointless complaining about players not being in an invitational, there are so many good players that losing one of them isn't going to make the tournament any worse. Stop being daft. Personally I find this attitude to be simply burying the matter. I'm sure if that is how you feel about it I can respect that. I'd just much rather discuss it and prompt change so that we might see idra as well as many more of the others to which you allude. | ||
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