Okay we're going to start cracking down on people bashing players for no reason. You don't have to like every player, but at least show some respect. (as of page 402)
On June 05 2011 11:21 Crumpet wrote: I personally don't think a legitimate argument can be made that Koreans are overall ahead in the starcraft 2 scene. However, it is a far cry from the dominance they held in Brood War. The matches between top tier foreigners and top tier Koreans are extremely competitive, and I believe the gap will only continue to narrow as esports grows in the west. Throwing up the series results of the koreans is a bit misleading, as many of them were extremly close series that, in my opinion, could have gone the other way a good 50% of the time.
Koreans are still far above most of the world except for a few, but it isn't like BW.
In BW, if any foreign player even took a game off someone like Bisu at an international event, it would create an uproar. Here, if someone like MC drops a series to Idra, it's not the same thing.
SC2 isn't mechanical enough for there to be such a gap.
jw but has there been a uproar caused by a foreigner taking a game off someone like Bisu/Flash/Jaedong or some BW pro?
On June 05 2011 11:02 ffadicted wrote: So at the end of championship pool play, final tally on Korea vs. The World (I've been keeping track since the start)
Moon: 3 - 2 MMA: 5 - 0 July: 4 - 0 (his loss was to a korean) MC: 4 - 1 Losira: 5 - 0
Koreans: 21 - 3
If you take into account that Moon isn't even good enough for Code A, and that MC said he was extremely jet lagged against grack, I think we can end the argument here. The gap IS huge.
Korea FIGHTIN!! ^^;
ok annoying me now. I like how people are only counting the GSL invited koreans. Moonan went 0-5 and Select went 0-5.
Neither of those play in the Korean scene. They're North American players.
So by that logic TLO is now swedish, QXC is now spanish, Huk is now Korean and Demuslim is now German amoung others.
Your stupidity is painful...
lol don't talk to him. i tried to explain but he seems pretty fixed on what he believes.
Yea thanks I understand GSL koreans are the best but thats like saying that David Beckham because he no longer plays in a top English football league is no longer English.
No, it's more like saying that if Arsenal won the Champions League, an English team won even if most of their team are not made up of english players. That's because the team is a team that plays in the English Premiere league. It's not about nationality.
On June 05 2011 11:02 ffadicted wrote: So at the end of championship pool play, final tally on Korea vs. The World (I've been keeping track since the start)
Moon: 3 - 2 MMA: 5 - 0 July: 4 - 0 (his loss was to a korean) MC: 4 - 1 Losira: 5 - 0
Koreans: 21 - 3
If you take into account that Moon isn't even good enough for Code A, and that MC said he was extremely jet lagged against grack, I think we can end the argument here. The gap IS huge.
Korea FIGHTIN!! ^^;
ok annoying me now. I like how people are only counting the GSL invited koreans. Moonan went 0-5 and Select went 0-5.
Neither of them play in Korea. This isn't a race/nationality thing, it's about the competitiveness of each scene.
Then how come when ever someone brings up good NA players, they discount Select because he is Korean?
not true, whenever day9 and djwheat talk about select they always talk about him as being one of the best terrans in the "NORTH AMERICAN" scene, never do they say he is one of the best "KOREAN" terrans, just watch any of the vid from the past two days where they talk about select
On June 05 2011 11:21 Crumpet wrote: I personally don't think a legitimate argument can be made that Koreans are overall ahead in the starcraft 2 scene. However, it is a far cry from the dominance they held in Brood War. The matches between top tier foreigners and top tier Koreans are extremely competitive, and I believe the gap will only continue to narrow as esports grows in the west. Throwing up the series results of the koreans is a bit misleading, as many of them were extremly close series that, in my opinion, could have gone the other way a good 50% of the time.
Koreans are still far above most of the world except for a few, but it isn't like BW.
In BW, if any foreign player even took a game off someone like Bisu at an international event, it would create an uproar. Here, if someone like MC drops a series to Idra, it's not the same thing.
SC2 isn't mechanical enough for there to be such a gap.
SC2 is very mechanical, but has streamlined a lot of the mechanics associated with BW. The mechanics needed now are not identical to Brood War, they are there, but they are different.
I am feeling sorry for those fighting at the open bracket losers bracket, they win like 9-10 bo3 and still got eliminate by 1 loss, and some of those seeded in pools. Compare theirs level! even continue the event with 4-5 losses
On June 05 2011 11:02 ffadicted wrote: So at the end of championship pool play, final tally on Korea vs. The World (I've been keeping track since the start)
Moon: 3 - 2 MMA: 5 - 0 July: 4 - 0 (his loss was to a korean) MC: 4 - 1 Losira: 5 - 0
Koreans: 21 - 3
If you take into account that Moon isn't even good enough for Code A, and that MC said he was extremely jet lagged against grack, I think we can end the argument here. The gap IS huge.
Korea FIGHTIN!! ^^;
Well Moon is an average korean and he lost a bit. And the other 4 are without a doubt 4 of the very best players in Korea. If these guys were only playing 4 of the top top top foreigners e.g. IdrA, Thorzain, Nani and Whitera, I'm sure the results would be fairly balanced. The koreans are playing people who are not on their level and not the best the foreign scene have to offer. Ofcourse all of these code s calibre players are pwning random foreigners, but the best of the best are still fairly equal in my opinion.
Uh, no. The foreigners you mentioned are the best of the best foreigners. The Koreans sent to MLG are 2nd tier (-MC) compared to the likes of MVP and especially Nestea.
Nice try though...
MMA, Losira and July are not second tier.
top teir being MC Nestea and MVP then yes they are.
So Korea has 3 top tier players?
the whole point of having a top tier is to make it exclusive, if you have a bunch of people as top tier then its not really the top tier, why go to the vip section of a club if it is filled with half the hoodrats in the club
then why the hell is it fair to compare the non "1st tier" foreigners to the koreans? this whole thing is stupid lol
great club analogy tho lol, WTF haha
Well if he wants to use that logic then the top tier foreigners are 1-1 vs the top tier koreans since if the top tier is only the best at each race the only top tier foreigners we have are idra and thorzain (maybe naniwa) and one beat the top korean protoss and one didnt. So using your logic the gap is minimal the current top tier foreigners are perfectly capable of keeping up with top tier koreans.
On June 05 2011 11:02 ffadicted wrote: So at the end of championship pool play, final tally on Korea vs. The World (I've been keeping track since the start)
Moon: 3 - 2 MMA: 5 - 0 July: 4 - 0 (his loss was to a korean) MC: 4 - 1 Losira: 5 - 0
Koreans: 21 - 3
If you take into account that Moon isn't even good enough for Code A, and that MC said he was extremely jet lagged against grack, I think we can end the argument here. The gap IS huge.
Korea FIGHTIN!! ^^;
ok annoying me now. I like how people are only counting the GSL invited koreans. Moonan went 0-5 and Select went 0-5.
Neither of those play in the Korean scene. They're North American players.
So by that logic TLO is now swedish, QXC is now spanish, Huk is now Korean and Demuslim is now German amoung others.
Your stupidity is painful...
lol don't talk to him. i tried to explain but he seems pretty fixed on what he believes.
Yea thanks I understand GSL koreans are the best but thats like saying that David Beckham because he no longer plays in a top English football league is no longer English.
what you're implying is pretty racist TBH. By your logic, if a black plays in MLG, he should be considered African and not american... also that means most of the NBA players are Africans. So Michael Jordan is the best African player of all times, not American. That pisses me off. I'm Korean, but from America. I wouldn't classify myself the same korean as the "GSL-invited korean category" ESPECIALLY since Korean implies "korean players playing in korea"
On June 05 2011 11:02 ffadicted wrote: So at the end of championship pool play, final tally on Korea vs. The World (I've been keeping track since the start)
Moon: 3 - 2 MMA: 5 - 0 July: 4 - 0 (his loss was to a korean) MC: 4 - 1 Losira: 5 - 0
Koreans: 21 - 3
If you take into account that Moon isn't even good enough for Code A, and that MC said he was extremely jet lagged against grack, I think we can end the argument here. The gap IS huge.
Korea FIGHTIN!! ^^;
Quit making excuses for Koreans. Freaking hate this. First its the server lags from cross country, then MLG decides to fly Koreans over for LAN, BUT NOOOOO That's not good enough for you. Now they have jet lag. Freaking deal with it. Top foreigners can easily take out Koreans, they aren't fucking Gods.
Excuses? Koreans have destroyed foreigners so far.
Yeah, you're including the wins of the tier 2 Foreigners, maybe if Gomtv sent over tier 2 koreans, we can start talking about wins and shit.
But as far as I'm concerned the Top top foreigners are doing REALLY REALLY well against the Top foreigners, stop trying to feign Korean dominance when there isn't any.
Who are the top top foreigners? The pool of top top foreigners seems to change everytime a Korean crushes one of them. Literally the only victory a top foreigner has over a Korean (minus the substandard Moon) is MC/Idra. Compare that with Losira over Incontrol, July over Sjow, MMA over Sjow, MC over Tyler, MC over Select, MC over Thorzain, Losira over TLO, MMA over Kiwikaka, July over Kiwikaki and I really fail to see how 'top foreigners' have competed well at all.
This is the part where you pretend players like Select and Kiwikaki are not top foreigners so go ahead.
I think most people agree top foreigners are like Thorzain, Naniwa, IdrA, Morrow, White-Ra, Dimaga, Huk, and couple other players.
Select and Kiwikaki have had way more success than Morrow and Dimaga. Sjow has one of the largest earnings outside Korea, those three are clearly top foreigners as is Ret who won Assembly.
Select isn't in the top 50 earning outside of Korea. I'm not saying he's not good, but come on. If you're going to back up Sjow with that you have to be consistent. Dimaga's earned more than Kiwi. So has Morrow.
On June 05 2011 11:02 ffadicted wrote: So at the end of championship pool play, final tally on Korea vs. The World (I've been keeping track since the start)
Moon: 3 - 2 MMA: 5 - 0 July: 4 - 0 (his loss was to a korean) MC: 4 - 1 Losira: 5 - 0
Koreans: 21 - 3
If you take into account that Moon isn't even good enough for Code A, and that MC said he was extremely jet lagged against grack, I think we can end the argument here. The gap IS huge.
Korea FIGHTIN!! ^^;
ok annoying me now. I like how people are only counting the GSL invited koreans. Moonan went 0-5 and Select went 0-5.
Neither of those play in the Korean scene. They're North American players.
So by that logic TLO is now swedish, QXC is now spanish, Huk is now Korean and Demuslim is now German amoung others.
Your stupidity is painful...
lol don't talk to him. i tried to explain but he seems pretty fixed on what he believes.
Yea thanks I understand GSL koreans are the best but thats like saying that David Beckham because he no longer plays in a top English football league is no longer English.
lmao stop you are digging your own grave. beckham came from the strict English league system and THEN he left. Moonan and Select NEVER had the influence of a strict Korean Pro Gaming system. Think before you spew nonsense.
On June 05 2011 11:02 mjnbowlgod wrote: gretorp has not won a series in 2 straight mlgs.
That's ok he will still be seeded next MLG!!!
Thank god for this format.
This can't be true. Seriously?
If gretorp can win at least 1 series in the championship rounds, yes he will STILL be seeded.
..... Well that is pretty stupid.
Actually, I think he needs to win 2 series to survive. Not 100% sure, someone correct me please.
Still... 2 wins in two MLG's and you get seeded? Pathetic format. Doesn't iNcontroL have less than 45% win rate in every matchup and is seeded 4th?
He came in 4th place last MLG ...
I'm well aware.
So what's your point then? He's seeded 4th cos he got 4th. He was seeded top 16 before that because he was top 16 in points. Complain about the format all you like but iNcontroL is not a player who has been kept in the seedings despite bad results unlike Gretorp.
EPT
