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[GSL] Code S r16 Day 1 - Page 82

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Samhax
Profile Joined August 2010
1054 Posts
April 28 2011 12:35 GMT
#1621
If you wanna survive to this build you have to wall off with one forge and one gate at your natural, to make it very choky or with 2 other gates. But the the follow up is to add at least 2 gates because you can't hold it just with 3 gates i think, warp some zealots when you see the lings attack and after that warp some stalkers.
Ezekyle
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia607 Posts
April 28 2011 12:35 GMT
#1622
On April 28 2011 21:31 Fenrisulf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2011 21:27 Alpina wrote:
On April 28 2011 21:23 Fenrisulf wrote:
Things are looking good for Nestea to win another GSL.
Sad about Alicia though , Killer pretty much only chance for protoss now, and I don't think hes good enough to win against TOP/Nada.
Funny how zergs praise this roach speedling push as ingenious but 6 gate pushes are all-in. 2 pushes with low tier units, momentarily cutting workers after getting on 2 base, meant to punish/kill other FE builds. Not saying anything about balance, but funny double standards...


What? Cutting workers after 2 base? He was droning super greedy until about 6:30 and then started roach/ling production. And just before attack he throws 3rd hatch, so how is that all-in?


Who said it was? I don't consider it an all-in. And he does stop producing workers after the initial heavy droning. Just like you stop making probes after chronoing a bunch out for the 6 gate sentry push. I think neither build is all-in. The point I was making was that theres hundreds of pages of QQ about protoss players only knowing how to all-in when they 6 gate, but the same people will be saying how ingenious LosirA is for coming up with this zerg version of the push.

Back in GSL3 everyone was hugely impressed with MC's amazing 6gate PvT pushes that just annihilated the big nasty Terrans and allowed the underdog Protoss players to rip apart their opponents. Over time this strategy, and others like it, became so powerful and so often used that people became tired of them, just like the BitByBit attacks that are so universally despised now. Whenever any Zerg baneling busts the LR thread is full of 'allin omg l2p macro game n00b'. There's no double standard, the only reason people are giving Losira credit for this build is because it's new and exciting. If it becomes a dominant strategy like the 6gate it'll get hated on too.
epoc
Profile Joined December 2010
Finland1190 Posts
April 28 2011 12:35 GMT
#1623
On April 28 2011 21:21 Goibon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2011 21:20 Vipsanius wrote:
LosirA wanted to go home early. He doesn't have time to bother with colossi.

Having trouble with Colossi?

Don't let them get them.



Yes that's exactly how you balance the game. Good luck attacking the protoss base full of sentries and cannons.
mikyaJ
Profile Joined April 2011
1834 Posts
April 28 2011 12:36 GMT
#1624
On April 28 2011 21:33 Yaotzin wrote:
Protoss have never been dominant in SC2. It's a complete myth. Terran has been the race getting the most results since forever.

except you know, when they were the most dominant race.
MKP||TSL
izgodlee
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada133 Posts
April 28 2011 12:36 GMT
#1625
On April 28 2011 21:29 Ezekyle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2011 21:17 Dfgj wrote:
On April 28 2011 21:16 Ezekyle wrote:
On April 28 2011 21:14 Mios wrote:
how is that possible to beat?
seems like you have to 4 gate or 3 gate pressure or the zerg econ gets way too far ahead

Bahahahahahaha. And people say that Zergs are QQers...

Moron, he's asking what would be good to do against it, not calling it broken.

"how do you beat this" in strategy forums = what is good against this build?
"how is it possible to beat this build, nothing can work against it" in LR thread = this build is impossible to beat, nothing can work against it.

At least that's how I read it. If I'm wrong, then my apologies.


"how do you beat this" and "how is it possible to beat this build" is basically the same thing, and you just added "nothing can work against it" for some reason when it isnt anywhere in his post. In conclusion i think you're just bias as fuck.
Bergys
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden337 Posts
April 28 2011 12:36 GMT
#1626
On April 28 2011 21:33 Yaotzin wrote:
Protoss have never been dominant in SC2. It's a complete myth. Terran has been the race getting the most results since forever.



User was warned for this post
DarkRise
Profile Joined November 2010
1644 Posts
April 28 2011 12:37 GMT
#1627
On April 28 2011 21:28 Poopi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2011 21:25 awesomoecalypse wrote:
As a Protoss, I have to say I'm glad the Protoss are losing, since recent Toss dominance in tournaments was the primary reason people called us OP. Glad to see Pros showing that Protoss are very, very beatable if you actually think, the way Losira did, or just plain outplay them the way Nada did.

I'm sure that the HT nerf HELPED a lot in TvP, and I don't know the PvZ match-up.


it does helped a lot in PVZ too, Broodlords become so good late game since you can't just warp in storm the land army. Ever seen San's PvZ
Namu
Profile Joined February 2011
United States826 Posts
April 28 2011 12:38 GMT
#1628
On April 28 2011 21:33 Yaotzin wrote:
Protoss have never been dominant in SC2. It's a complete myth. Terran has been the race getting the most results since forever.


I think last season of GSL was pretty clear protoss domination, 3/4 of the RO4 was Protoss.
However, overall, I agree that Terran has gotten the better end of it.
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
April 28 2011 12:38 GMT
#1629
To be fair, I feel like Toss got a small period of domination during the last GSL, when we had 3 Toss in the semifinals along with MC completely dismantling July, and Naniwa going on a total tear though MLG soon after. It seems like that period is at its end, though.
Bergys
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden337 Posts
April 28 2011 12:38 GMT
#1630
On April 28 2011 21:36 mikyaJ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2011 21:33 Yaotzin wrote:
Protoss have never been dominant in SC2. It's a complete myth. Terran has been the race getting the most results since forever.

except you know, when they were the most dominant race.


When would this be?
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
April 28 2011 12:38 GMT
#1631
On April 28 2011 21:36 mikyaJ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2011 21:33 Yaotzin wrote:
Protoss have never been dominant in SC2. It's a complete myth. Terran has been the race getting the most results since forever.

except you know, when they were the most dominant race.

Which has been never. Look at actual tournament results. A few wins from MC and Naniwa doesn't make Protoss dominant. There are still FAR more Terran players in GSL, and they still win most of the small weekly type tournaments.
kheldorin
Profile Joined April 2010
Singapore539 Posts
April 28 2011 12:39 GMT
#1632
On April 28 2011 21:33 realstarcrafter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2011 21:26 Orpheusz wrote:
On April 28 2011 21:22 Yaotzin wrote:
On April 28 2011 21:20 babysimba wrote:
The reason why Alicia lost to that aggression so easily is because he did not build a wall in front of his natural. It might be a mindfk maneuver (cancel nexus 4wg), but losira just went ahead with the aggression anyway.

No it was because he went early stargate. 3gate sentry expand into stargate has massive trouble with roach/ling attacks, especially if you don't scout it and go phoenix (as Alicia did). Not surprisingly really, that build just has a serious lack of units to do actual DPS - until the voids/stalkers are online.


He went into robo in the first game which I think was cross position terminus and still lost pretty handily.

He lost the first game because he tried to snipe Losira's 3rd base at the cost of his whole army.


That was Losira's 4th base (3rd expo), He's dead regardless of what he does at that point of the game.
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
April 28 2011 12:40 GMT
#1633
On April 28 2011 21:39 kheldorin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2011 21:33 realstarcrafter wrote:
On April 28 2011 21:26 Orpheusz wrote:
On April 28 2011 21:22 Yaotzin wrote:
On April 28 2011 21:20 babysimba wrote:
The reason why Alicia lost to that aggression so easily is because he did not build a wall in front of his natural. It might be a mindfk maneuver (cancel nexus 4wg), but losira just went ahead with the aggression anyway.

No it was because he went early stargate. 3gate sentry expand into stargate has massive trouble with roach/ling attacks, especially if you don't scout it and go phoenix (as Alicia did). Not surprisingly really, that build just has a serious lack of units to do actual DPS - until the voids/stalkers are online.


He went into robo in the first game which I think was cross position terminus and still lost pretty handily.

He lost the first game because he tried to snipe Losira's 3rd base at the cost of his whole army.


That was Losira's 4th base (3rd expo), He's dead regardless of what he does at that point of the game.


If I recall correctly, LosirA was up by almost 60 supply if not more at that point, so it was natural for Alicia to feel the need to go out and deny an expansion when he was that far behind.
dubRa
Profile Joined December 2008
2165 Posts
April 28 2011 12:40 GMT
#1634
On April 28 2011 21:33 Yaotzin wrote:
Protoss have never been dominant in SC2. It's a complete myth. Terran has been the race getting the most results since forever.


I agree. If you look at recent big events it is understandable why people believe P is dominating.
MLG- 1. Naniwa 2. Kiwikaki
Dreamhack- 1. MC 2. White-Ra
CG- 1. MC 2. Kas
usethis2
Profile Joined December 2010
2164 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-28 12:46:30
April 28 2011 12:40 GMT
#1635
You guys are all confused of this ling-roach rush build. It was popular ZvP strat since the beginning (ling-roach all-in, though obviously it becomes non all-in if you inflict enough damage), and got even more popular after the roach range buff. Zerg dominated toss for 3 weeks with this build then died down as toss figured out couter builds.

I'm kind of at a loss how Alicia performed tonight. It's really beyond my comprehension how his PvT is so good yet he can't handle the basic ling-roach attack. (TWICE)

Slayers need some decent Z players so that Alicia can practice with. It's no surprise that Alicia's PvT is good and only getting better in that team. But you can't let his talent slip by not having vZ practice partners.
Bergys
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden337 Posts
April 28 2011 12:41 GMT
#1636
On April 28 2011 21:40 HolyArrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2011 21:39 kheldorin wrote:
On April 28 2011 21:33 realstarcrafter wrote:
On April 28 2011 21:26 Orpheusz wrote:
On April 28 2011 21:22 Yaotzin wrote:
On April 28 2011 21:20 babysimba wrote:
The reason why Alicia lost to that aggression so easily is because he did not build a wall in front of his natural. It might be a mindfk maneuver (cancel nexus 4wg), but losira just went ahead with the aggression anyway.

No it was because he went early stargate. 3gate sentry expand into stargate has massive trouble with roach/ling attacks, especially if you don't scout it and go phoenix (as Alicia did). Not surprisingly really, that build just has a serious lack of units to do actual DPS - until the voids/stalkers are online.


He went into robo in the first game which I think was cross position terminus and still lost pretty handily.

He lost the first game because he tried to snipe Losira's 3rd base at the cost of his whole army.


That was Losira's 4th base (3rd expo), He's dead regardless of what he does at that point of the game.


If I recall correctly, LosirA was up by almost 60 supply if not more at that point, so it was natural for Alicia to feel the need to go out and deny an expansion when he was that far behind.


Natural or not, it was still a really stupid decision. Personally I think the game was already lost but that move-out was the nail in the coffin.
labbe
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1456 Posts
April 28 2011 12:41 GMT
#1637
I wish people who doesn't know what the term "QQ" means, would stop using it.
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
April 28 2011 12:41 GMT
#1638
Lol so first time toss lost and now every toss player gonna talk about how toss isn't strong at all.. :D
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
Orpheusz
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia210 Posts
April 28 2011 12:41 GMT
#1639
On April 28 2011 21:35 Samhax wrote:
If you wanna survive to this build you have to wall off with one forge and one gate at your natural, to make it very choky or with 2 other gates. But the the follow up is to add at least 2 gates because you can't hold it just with 3 gates i think, warp some zealots when you see the lings attack and after that warp some stalkers.


That helps but some maps have a giant distance from nat to main and that becomes a lot less effective (xelnaga, typhon etc..)
Roggay
Profile Joined April 2010
Switzerland6320 Posts
April 28 2011 12:42 GMT
#1640
On April 28 2011 21:29 HolyArrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2011 21:26 Roggay wrote:
On April 28 2011 21:23 HolyArrow wrote:
On April 28 2011 21:19 Roggay wrote:
On April 28 2011 21:17 HolyArrow wrote:
On April 28 2011 21:16 Ezekyle wrote:
On April 28 2011 21:14 Mios wrote:
how is that possible to beat?
seems like you have to 4 gate or 3 gate pressure or the zerg econ gets way too far ahead

Bahahahahahaha. And people say that Zergs are QQers...


Psh. There are only a few people QQing here. Compare this to when a Zerg player loses to a Toss player in any LR thread and there's a pretty big difference. Don't fool yourself.


You are fooling yourself too, the amount of zerg QQing here is very low, and it is always the sames, please don't generalize.


Me generalize? Hardly. There's truth behind the stereotype of Zerg players QQing the most, just as there is some truth behind any sort of stereotype.

Yes and maybe the truth is that zerg had the most trouble at the time, and it generated a lot of QQ. The other races had less reasons to QQ. So now, could people stop with this ridiculous claim that every zerg whines everytime they see one damn comment about it.


The most trouble at the time? What is your definition of "at the time"? It's been going on for as long as I can remember, ever since FD won the first GSL. Like I said, there's a reason the stereotype exists, and it's not just because of the last GSL season.

It is a fact that zerg players have had trouble getting good tournament results, you can't deny that (Yes I know, FD and Nestea) and with things like 4gate, 2rax etc... a lot of people were frustrated, leading to a lot of QQ.
We are all starcraft players, playing zerg will not make you another person (more of a whiner), it is just stupid to think that.

I hate whiners, but what I hate most are peoples who whines about whiners (martyrs), and now it seems like there are more of the second type on this forum.
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