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On January 09 2011 15:51 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
The argument that viewers are the reason that there is prize money in this tournament is obviously completely ridiculous; as the tournament organizers couldn't even get a proper stream running themselves.
Without any desire to drag this on, I'll say I agree with everything else you said, but strongly disagree with this part. In general, viewers are the one single reason that there is prize money, and we all know that, because this is how any professional sport (or other spectator entertainment) works.
In this specific case, the organization did fail big time, but it's in players' own best (long term) interest to "save the face" of the sponsors and organizers of the tournament especially if it's a fairly large live event.
For all the lag and PC issues they experienced on-site, the tournament wouldn't have been that much of a failure if it went well from a spectators' point of view. If they already endured it for the entire day, Sjow should have made an effort to endure it a little bit more. Or forfeit if he thought the organization was that bad and playing conditions were horrible, there's no shame in that and it's actually within his rights.
If the incident in the grand finals didn't happen, people would now be talking about the final game and congratulating TLO, which would be good publicity overall for everyone despite the on-site problems players had. Instead people are talking about organization and Sjow, which is bad publicity for everyone involved. The whole event has a negative backlash now, so I see no reason for Sjow to be absolved from a small dose of community backlash for what he did as well as he directly caused the tournament to be even more of a failure than just an organizational / technical one.
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the only ones fault for anything that goes wrong is the orgas of the event. dont blame sjow for getting angry any player would. if your players get angry in your tournament your probably doing something very wrong -.-
if casters lag, then next time hire dapollo who can come to the actual event and do awesome casting without lag
why do ppl keep hatin on the players when its the tournaments that are failing
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Yeah it was super awesome that their was a stream but I think the quality was way to high for decent streaming. If I put the gfx settings for the game that high my computer would melt in 2 seconds.
+ The live coverage on the website was not that good since the site could barely handle that many visitors. So maybe do the coverage in cooperation with a bigger website.
anyway nice event !
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Okay, i give up. :D
Maybe my english is to bad or you guys just read every word alone or whatever.
i painted a picture with the referee... can't i do that in english xD i don't know.
my points:
-audience makes professional gaming possible.
-the setup beforehand should remind this fact!! organization to have the best possible publication of a tournament.
-people should always treat each other with respect
-when a game starts, there should be 3 things interacting with the game result: 2 players and 1 referee
done
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I've never seen so much cries over missing 1 game, and it's honestly ruining what a great event this was.
I'm sure smile will upload the replays soon and you can all be happy.
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On January 09 2011 20:56 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 20:45 razkuth wrote:On January 09 2011 20:28 Longshank wrote:
Fact of the matter is that progamers need the audience way more than the audience needs progamers. As long as there's an audience there will always be pros, something other sports have realized. Every other athlete knows his place in the hierarchy, if you so are the savior of football, lost child of Pelé and Beckenbauer - you play when and where the sponsors/organizers tells you to, be it in snow, wind, rain and hail - or all four. Only in extreme situations are matches cancelled, and then at the order of the organizers, not the players. And yeah, there is money on the line, more than any of us can imagine.
In this case admins should have stepped up and made a decission, but just the fact that players somehow feel entitled to decide(not only on this occasion, been same way with HuK and Morrow in the past) shows that they don't understand the business they're in. And why they're allowed to be in it. True. Audience makes the "professional" possible. Without an audience, there is no money, so there can't be "pros". But imagine this: the caster lags in the moment, when the terran wants to split his marines because fourty banelings roll in. that would be a game deciding factor. its comparable with a referee in soccer who stands on the goal line and prevents a golden goal. If this happens then it's very unfortunate, but as everyone know, a part of the game - no goal. You don't go ahead and play the game without refs because of it.
That would have been true if the referee hadn't been standing on the goal line all day
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Actually it's quite common for the referee to accidentally interfere with play in football, even leading to some bizarre situations and preventing possible goal actions. But if you shout at him, you still get sent off.
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On January 09 2011 21:05 MorroW wrote:
the only ones fault for anything that goes wrong is the orgas of the event. dont blame sjow for getting angry any player would. if your players get angry in your tournament your probably doing something very wrong -.-
if casters lag, then next time hire dapollo who can come to the actual event and do awesome casting without lag
why do ppl keep hatin on the players when its the tournaments that are failing
I guess this time it was a combination of not knowing that (and how) SjoW lost first game, if they knew there could have been more sympathy for the situation he was in. Also the unnecessary threat towards the caster i think was a problem, the audience isn't used to that kind of behaviour in this community.
I agree that SjoW did nothing wrong, and RageQuit was awesome for "saving" the sponsors when their arranged caster didn't show up (again, bad PR for this community). The solution next time would perhaps be to not rush so much, pause in lobby for a minute, sort things out. Understand the player's aswell as the community's needs. This guy casted for many hours without much trouble.
All-in-all, it was an awesome event nonetheless, very entertaining to follow.
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On January 09 2011 21:05 MorroW wrote:
the only ones fault for anything that goes wrong is the orgas of the event. dont blame sjow for getting angry any player would. if your players get angry in your tournament your probably doing something very wrong -.-
if casters lag, then next time hire dapollo who can come to the actual event and do awesome casting without lag
why do ppl keep hatin on the players when its the tournaments that are failing
They're hating, because the issue was fixed, but Sjow being a total douche threatening the caster (who was casting on drools account so he didn't want to cause any trouble for him) without giving any chance to explain. Not having one minute time and therefore have 5000 ppl after hours of casting missing the final
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On January 09 2011 19:34 Eurekastreet wrote:
Agreed with most of the post, it's self-contradictory at times - but who isn't- or I just misunderstood it all (one paragraph you say you " have not seen the manner in which Sjow etc", the next " if anyone in Liquid handled this the way Sjow did at all and I would definitely yell at them for behaving like this" and you conclude with " Sjow did something wrong but nothing that deserves to be flamed." ) but if one tries to rationalize the whole mess objectively, it's probably the only way to go as there's so many things that went wrong one doesn't know who to start blaming. I, for one, blame the invisible admin (and the cloaked organizers), the player "threatening" the caster (and de-friending him from the game so no communication was possible at all after game 2 - we just stared at a fixed screen hoping for game 3....) and I wanna put a tiny tiny blame on the caster for not rebooting his whole setup just for the sake of it and trying to join again (though Sjow probably might not have accepted) but something tells me I shouldn't blame the caster at all, it's like shouting at a guy who finishes a marathon because he don't run fast enough. Aaaah self contradiction.
What I don't agree with (not that you have to care for it, just my 2 cents) is the " and people saying in this topic that this is a spectator sport need to stfu". To me it ain't only a spectator sport (yes, players need to be taken care of and play in the best conditions etc), but passed the fact that being a spectator and chatting with other spectators (casters and sometimes players) is a huge part of the fun watching those tournaments for my little person, the fact that if there's a whole 5000+ people waiting a whole saturday evening to watch a couple of games and just get given the finger by one diva player for some lag issues (I might be wrong but I only saw the caster lag once or twice before sjow jumped on him, all the previous problems were caused by other spectators) needs a little bit more consideration than a well-placed "stfu" - especially from the admin of a community website.
If you ain't gonna "blame" anyone, then no one's responsible for the situation, then it'll happen again but it's ok, who cares, specs just need to "stfu" and eat what they're fed. Maybe that's not what you meant, and it was more of an analysis of the position of the spectator in the e-sport business, maybe those tourneys don't even need live specs at all and so on (I guess they'll need specs at some point if they want some money), but to me that's another discussion, I, as a spec, value my time as much as the next guy, if I get served warm beer, I quickly change bar.
PS : as for the too much rain/too much snow thing : i think (at least that's what seems logical) it's the referee who decides how much is too much, not the players, and he does it both for the players AND the audience, not because the players look tired or might get their fancy little shorts wet but because he wants everyone to get a decent show.
I didn't mean to say whoever thinks it's a spectator sport needs to stfu. I believe SC2 is a spectator sport. I meant to say whoever believes that the fact that it is a spectator sport means players should be forced to play in bad conditions needs to stfu. A spectator sport would be nowhere without its spectators, but where would it be without its players? It's give an take, as it is with everything. In this case spectators need to give a little and give up a live stream to ensure that players can function in a good environment. Players give up a lot for the spectators, in fact they dedicate their lives to entertaining you. All spectators need to do is enjoy the games and occasionally accept it when a player can't play due to bad conditions. It seems to me a lot of spectators in this thread prefer to take a lot and give very little.
Spectators don't just need to eat what they're fed but they should definitely develop a better understanding of all sides if they think players just need to do whatever to entertain them.
On January 09 2011 19:49 Wuffey wrote:
I think you are wrong there. Football matches get canceled when it's completly impossible to play (=Batllenet offline). But they will not be canceled when it's raining or snowing, making it harder for the players to play but not impossible (=Lag).
Rain that makes football harder is not at all comparable to lag. You are taking the comparison way out of context. Lag in Esports is much worse than rain in football. I would even go as far as to say that (some) rain is a part of football until it becomes too much. Lag is not a part of esports, at all. The only comparison you can make is that other sports stop if the playing conditions aren't sufficient anymore. Which should be the case for SC2 as well.
On January 09 2011 21:02 Talin wrote:
Without any desire to drag this on, I'll say I agree with everything else you said, but strongly disagree with this part. In general, viewers are the one single reason that there is prize money, and we all know that, because this is how any professional sport (or other spectator entertainment) works.
In this specific case, the organization did fail big time, but it's in players' own best (long term) interest to "save the face" of the sponsors and organizers of the tournament especially if it's a fairly large live event.
For all the lag and PC issues they experienced on-site, the tournament wouldn't have been that much of a failure if it went well from a spectators' point of view. If they already endured it for the entire day, Sjow should have made an effort to endure it a little bit more. Or forfeit if he thought the organization was that bad and playing conditions were horrible, there's no shame in that and it's actually within his rights.
If the incident in the grand finals didn't happen, people would now be talking about the final game and congratulating TLO, which would be good publicity overall for everyone despite the on-site problems players had. Instead people are talking about organization and Sjow, which is bad publicity for everyone involved. The whole event has a negative backlash now, so I see no reason for Sjow to be absolved from a small dose of community backlash for what he did as well as he directly caused the tournament to be even more of a failure than just an organizational / technical one.
Yea that's completely true, I suppose the argument that the organization couldn't fix their stream isn't an argument to disregard viewers regarding prize money. The sponsor still has good intentions and if they see 5000 viewers through private initiative they will still be impressed with esports. So if the organization fails and has no stream then players should still bear some responsibility towards the sponsors of the event. Though it's hard to look that deep into things when you are facing a big mess right in front of you for 12 hours straight.
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On January 09 2011 21:05 MorroW wrote:
the only ones fault for anything that goes wrong is the orgas of the event. dont blame sjow for getting angry any player would. if your players get angry in your tournament your probably doing something very wrong -.-
if casters lag, then next time hire dapollo who can come to the actual event and do awesome casting without lag
why do ppl keep hatin on the players when its the tournaments that are failing
Don't agree with that entirely. I have nothing against Sjow (I seem to have noticed there's show fanboys in here, and sjow haters, I'm none of them at this point, last night I was just looking for good games), but if has a "right" to get angry, any spec has the same.
Organisation was bad, that's for sure but even if it had been good, even in the best of tournaments I guess, any caster can start lagging at any time, and then it shouldn't be up the players to play the admin/referees AND if they have no other choice - like yesterday night - then, do it taking your audience into account - which no one (except for the caster - which pbbly got pissed at the situation too but managed not to show it too much - would be interesting to get his p.o.v.) seemed to do last night.
If you invite 5000 people to a party, even if the party sucks, people wanna get inside instead of waiting outside in the cold. And if you're the guy who shuts the door in front of those 5000 peepz, don't expect them to cover you with compliments, crowds get over-enthousiastic, that's what they do - and it's part of the fun of any sport. The initial problems weren't Sjow's fault but from a spec point of view, what he did made the situation even worse.
When a player wins a tournament that's gone great from an organization point of view, the player gets all kind of praises on top of the money and players don't complain that everybody forgets about all the organization behind the event. If something goes bad, you're free to do anything since all the blame should go the organization ? It's a bit caricatural of course but my point is, as e-sport are getting bigger (and I wish it keeps on going that way), I guess pros will have to decide if they wanna take care of their audience or not and how, but whatever you do, there'll be reactions that's for sure. Price of success ? Maybe. What was the quote again? "All in the game dawg"
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On January 09 2011 21:46 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
It seems to me a lot of spectators in this thread prefer to take a lot and give very little.
Spectators don't just need to eat what they're fed but they should definitely develop a better understanding of all sides if they think players just need to do whatever to entertain them.
This is so true. It often feels like people only take into consideration their own perspective and rarely the perspective of the players. I personally just get really pissed off when a casters lags, even if its just once for a few seconds, it really throws you off your game...
Thanks for the posts Nazgul, i hope some people who are organizing events will read them..
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Resuming: Big fail from the admins and really bad manners from Sjow.
Now, I'd like to suggest that some altruist soul did a Tournament's guide. It could seem strange but a lot of people don't really know how to do it.
I have no idea about the topic, but thinks like from quarter finals to finals, one referee in each matchup, a game can't start until the referee says so and thinks like that. It could be really helpful.
I saw a lot of tournaments were some rules weren't clear and so the admins/players didn't know what to do.
It could greatly improve the community.
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It all comes to a situation where players ask viewers to get in their shoes, and dont understand themselves that viewers are actually customers in this world, because they are putting up with the pub/sponsors, in order so there is money in the line for said players to be dragged into a tournament.
The way in wich this was handled was very far from reasonable, I was watching live and I felt like an idiot seeing how the players (in this case Sjow in special) didnt want to take a mere 4-5 minutes break to see if the caster could fix problems, let alone, not even 1 minute to let him explain, instead spamming the lobby chat. I hope whoever rules in Team Dignitas tells him to post a public apology, bucause this is serious, probably not from a pro player perspective, but it is from an spectator point of view.
Ultimately, in this "without players there would be no tournaments either" believe me, other people would step up, there is hundreds of people playing craft cups all the time, while the money there is close to nothing, and there are still nice games.
Players really really really need to understand that they can make a living in what they love, ONLY because there are thousands of people willing to watch those tournaments.
And as someone posted, this matter should really make for a discussion Blog and some kind of basic rules that tournaments could use. I cant wait to see this become a true profesional scene, where things like this dont happen. Because to some people it looks, like espectators just want to rage, no, spectators are raging because they dont want things like this to happen again.
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On January 09 2011 22:05 Usagi wrote:
It all comes to a situation where players ask viewers to get in their shoes, and dont understand themselves that viewers are actually customers in this world, because they are putting up with the pub/sponsors, in order so there is money in the line for said players to be dragged into a tournament.
The way in wich this was handled was very far from reasonable, I was watching live and I felt like an idiot seeing how the players (in this case Sjow in special) didnt want to take a mere 4-5 minutes break to see if the caster could fix problems, let alone, not even 1 minute to let him explain, instead spamming the lobby chat. I hope whoever rules in Team Dignitas tells him to post a public apology, bucause this is serious, probably not from a pro player perspective, but it is from an spectator point of view.
Ultimately, in this "without players there would be no tournaments either" believe me, other people would step up, there is hundreds of people playing craft cups all the time, while the money there is close to nothing, and there are still nice games.
Players really really really need to understand that they can make a living in what they love, ONLY because there are thousands of people willing to watch those tournaments.
And as someone posted, this matter should really make for a discussion Blog and some kind of basic rules that tournaments could use. I cant wait to see this become a true profesional scene, where things like this dont happen. Because to some people it looks, like espectators just want to rage, no, spectators are raging because they dont want things like this to happen again.
This argument makes no sense as it can be used the other way around just as well. Without you viewing there will still be enough viewers to watch. It's one of those statements that are just meaningless to the discussion. Bottom line is this one-sided stuff needs to stop. Players need to understand they need to be thankful for the viewers and viewers need to be thankful for the players. Why does every group always try to make themselves more important than they are? This includes players btw.
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On January 09 2011 21:46 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 09 2011 19:34 Eurekastreet wrote:
Agreed with most of the post, it's self-contradictory at times - but who isn't- or I just misunderstood it all (one paragraph you say you " have not seen the manner in which Sjow etc", the next " if anyone in Liquid handled this the way Sjow did at all and I would definitely yell at them for behaving like this" and you conclude with " Sjow did something wrong but nothing that deserves to be flamed." ) but if one tries to rationalize the whole mess objectively, it's probably the only way to go as there's so many things that went wrong one doesn't know who to start blaming. I, for one, blame the invisible admin (and the cloaked organizers), the player "threatening" the caster (and de-friending him from the game so no communication was possible at all after game 2 - we just stared at a fixed screen hoping for game 3....) and I wanna put a tiny tiny blame on the caster for not rebooting his whole setup just for the sake of it and trying to join again (though Sjow probably might not have accepted) but something tells me I shouldn't blame the caster at all, it's like shouting at a guy who finishes a marathon because he don't run fast enough. Aaaah self contradiction.
What I don't agree with (not that you have to care for it, just my 2 cents) is the " and people saying in this topic that this is a spectator sport need to stfu". To me it ain't only a spectator sport (yes, players need to be taken care of and play in the best conditions etc), but passed the fact that being a spectator and chatting with other spectators (casters and sometimes players) is a huge part of the fun watching those tournaments for my little person, the fact that if there's a whole 5000+ people waiting a whole saturday evening to watch a couple of games and just get given the finger by one diva player for some lag issues (I might be wrong but I only saw the caster lag once or twice before sjow jumped on him, all the previous problems were caused by other spectators) needs a little bit more consideration than a well-placed "stfu" - especially from the admin of a community website.
If you ain't gonna "blame" anyone, then no one's responsible for the situation, then it'll happen again but it's ok, who cares, specs just need to "stfu" and eat what they're fed. Maybe that's not what you meant, and it was more of an analysis of the position of the spectator in the e-sport business, maybe those tourneys don't even need live specs at all and so on (I guess they'll need specs at some point if they want some money), but to me that's another discussion, I, as a spec, value my time as much as the next guy, if I get served warm beer, I quickly change bar.
PS : as for the too much rain/too much snow thing : i think (at least that's what seems logical) it's the referee who decides how much is too much, not the players, and he does it both for the players AND the audience, not because the players look tired or might get their fancy little shorts wet but because he wants everyone to get a decent show. I didn't mean to say whoever thinks it's a spectator sport needs to stfu. I believe SC2 is a spectator sport. I meant to say whoever believes that the fact that it is a spectator sport means players should be forced to play in bad conditions needs to stfu. A spectator sport would be nowhere without its spectators, but where would it be without its players? It's give an take, as it is with everything. In this case spectators need to give a little and give up a live stream to ensure that players can function in a good environment. Players give up a lot for the spectators, in fact they dedicate their lives to entertaining you. All spectators need to do is enjoy the games and occasionally accept it when a player can't play due to bad conditions. It seems to me a lot of spectators in this thread prefer to take a lot and give very little. Spectators don't just need to eat what they're fed but they should definitely develop a better understanding of all sides if they think players just need to do whatever to entertain them. On January 09 2011 19:49 Wuffey wrote:
I think you are wrong there. Football matches get canceled when it's completly impossible to play (=Batllenet offline). But they will not be canceled when it's raining or snowing, making it harder for the players to play but not impossible (=Lag).
Rain that makes football harder is not at all comparable to lag. You are taking the comparison way out of context. Lag in Esports is much worse than rain in football. I would even go as far as to say that (some) rain is a part of football until it becomes too much. Lag is not a part of esports, at all. The only comparison you can make is that other sports stop if the playing conditions aren't sufficient anymore. Which should be the case for SC2 as well. On January 09 2011 21:02 Talin wrote:
Without any desire to drag this on, I'll say I agree with everything else you said, but strongly disagree with this part. In general, viewers are the one single reason that there is prize money, and we all know that, because this is how any professional sport (or other spectator entertainment) works.
In this specific case, the organization did fail big time, but it's in players' own best (long term) interest to "save the face" of the sponsors and organizers of the tournament especially if it's a fairly large live event.
For all the lag and PC issues they experienced on-site, the tournament wouldn't have been that much of a failure if it went well from a spectators' point of view. If they already endured it for the entire day, Sjow should have made an effort to endure it a little bit more. Or forfeit if he thought the organization was that bad and playing conditions were horrible, there's no shame in that and it's actually within his rights.
If the incident in the grand finals didn't happen, people would now be talking about the final game and congratulating TLO, which would be good publicity overall for everyone despite the on-site problems players had. Instead people are talking about organization and Sjow, which is bad publicity for everyone involved. The whole event has a negative backlash now, so I see no reason for Sjow to be absolved from a small dose of community backlash for what he did as well as he directly caused the tournament to be even more of a failure than just an organizational / technical one. Yea that's completely true, I suppose the argument that the organization couldn't fix their stream isn't an argument to disregard viewers regarding prize money. The sponsor still has good intentions and if they see 5000 viewers through private initiative they will still be impressed with esports. So if the organization fails and has no stream then players should still bear some responsibility towards the sponsors of the event. Though it's hard to look that deep into things when you are facing a big mess right in front of you for 12 hours straight.
Well I think most people agree with you and understand that lag is a horrible if not unacceptable situation for players, people complain about how Sjow handled the situation, i mean TLO was pissed too, but nobody's hating him cuz he didn't act like a total douche making all spectators miss the finals ( the issue was solved, but caster didn't get the chance to explain and on top of that he just went off or deleted the caster from is fl (not sure there) spoilering the result to everyone watching)
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On January 09 2011 22:10 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Bottom line is this one-sided stuff needs to stop. Players need to understand they need to be thankful for the viewers and viewers need to be thankful for the players. Why does every group always try to make themselves more important than they are? This includes players btw.
Completely agree.
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On January 09 2011 22:10 noaki wrote:
Well I think most people agree with you and understand that lag is a horrible if not unacceptable situation for players, people complain about how Sjow handled the situation, i mean TLO was pissed too, but nobody's hating him cuz he didn't act like a total douche making all spectators miss the finals ( the issue was solved, but caster didn't get the chance to explain and on top of that he just went off or deleted the caster from is fl (not sure there) spoilering the result to everyone watching)
While I do think that everyone thinks he handled it poorly, myself included, there are a lot of opinions that are flat out hateful with no understanding of the situation, and others that think admins should make a player play in lag in order to entertain. Those opinions are the ones that need to educate themselves a bit more. Anyone who says Sjow handled it poorly is right of course. A player should abide the rules of a tournament he signs up for. Sjow deserves a bit of hate. But to me it's painful to see that Sjow is pretty much being crucified when it was really the organizational problems that caused all this to begin with.
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Hello hello
I'm the tournament organiser from the event yesterday and I just thought i'd put a few points across and make apologies where necessary.
Firstly, we had a really fun day on site, the event ran really smooth once we got through the troubles caused from the website hosting crashing pretty severely - we didn't even know that would happen with that much traffic  - so there was about an hour whilst we waited for late players and to generate the bracket, I apologise for this - we couldn't have anticipated it would have happened.
Apart from that, we didn't really experience any lag issues from the players except the usual spikes here and there, and I didn't receive any complaints at all from games being dropped due to lag in the building, which was a massive relief!
However... due to our caster not coming down to the event, I had a livestream account i'm not really familiar with, and between organising the tournament and trying to get that up and running - we tried our best to get our in house stream working, after the first match realising that the bandwidth on the line was being throttled pretty hard for no reason as I was on a dedicated 20/1 ADSL line, I still don't know why it was so bad, but it's central London and the BT offices experienced a fire in the building last week so that potentially had something to do with it - again, nothing much I could about this on the day, so continued to cast on our stream, and actually having a lot of fun casting myself which was totally new to me ^_^ - Many thanks to those who tuned in and listened
And of course many thanks to Drool and ragequit.tv who came in to cast most of the larger games throughout the day, it's awesome how the community came together for that and the stream was really high quality - you guys are awesome!
So to explain what happened towards the end of the event can only be described as perculiar. All of our streaming accounts started to lag out really bad. The in house stream kept disconnecting from battlenet for no reason so I pulled mine entirely to save lagging the game, some people think I was spectating the finals - I was not. Drools stream had a few disconnects towards the end, which could be expected considering he was in the US and we're in EU - but also when Total Biscuit tried to get in, he was lagging the game and disconnecting... so strange - no explanation and I'm not really sure what we could have done.. in my opinion, the players gameplay is the priority over streaming - but even more of a priority which not many people knew about was that we had to get the event wrapped up, as our venue was closing at midnight, Sjow admitted GG at 11:57! it was too close for comfort... With the initial delay due to the website, and for SarenS grabbing a burger without warning (McDonalds is to blame for all of the problems ^_^ ) - we were a couple of hours out of our schedule, which again we apologise for.
All in all - we learned more lessons for how to do this - we honestly didn't expect >this< amount of interest, over 5.5 thousand on the ragequit.tv stream, and I think my stream spiked at about 1700 at one point, with over 4000 users browsing our website and 47 pages on this thread! We couldn't have known... we will for next time and we really look forward to bolstering our servers, installing some really nice 100/10 lines and working our stream to be really special.
We will have the demos from the finals to upload for those that want to see them, and a good selection of other matches from the event, i'll post the link on here for you, if anyone would like to recast them on youtube perhaps lemme know
Many congrats to the winners, you were all so excellent to hang around with all day - myself and ray (boo) had a blast Also thanks to Nigel from PokerIdol.com who stayed the entire day and was really enthusiastic about meeting the players and of course for the cash prize pool! He really enjoyed it, so theres no worries about the sponsors, we'll be back with bigger events hehe
I just got back from London myself, so I have only read a few of the pages on this thread, I wish I could explain how sorry we are to the eager community trying to spectate the games and sometimes it breaking, especially the final, we all saw what happened at MLG and sometimes theres just external factors out of our control, if you knew the staff here you would know we tried our absolute hardest to deliver the best event we could and keep you updated with photos/live updates etc. so any positive feedback would be so very much appreciated, it breaks our hearts to see so much rage. 
I'll get busy trying to sort the replays and remaing photos out, and let you know asap
<3
Many thanks from the team for the Pokeridol.com tournament!
Chris aka smile
Ray aka BoO
www.gamerbase.com
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On January 09 2011 22:00 DarKFoRcE wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 21:46 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
It seems to me a lot of spectators in this thread prefer to take a lot and give very little.
Spectators don't just need to eat what they're fed but they should definitely develop a better understanding of all sides if they think players just need to do whatever to entertain them.
This is so true. It often feels like people only take into consideration their own perspective and rarely the perspective of the players. I personally just get really pissed off when a casters lags, even if its just once for a few seconds, it really throws you off your game... Thanks for the posts Nazgul, i hope some people who are organizing events will read them..
To tell you the truth, posts like this dont really help the situation.
As i have seen many "player streams" (streaming ladder games) i know what you are talking about.
Obviously if there are ~2000-10000 viewers on a stream, you will always find those 5-10 douchebags spamming and trolling ingame.
But the vast majority of viewers does take the players perspective into consideration and is very thankfull for the time they invest.
In that regard its just really disappointing to see that players in a grand final dont seem to take the viewers perspective into consideration. Because its not entirely like Nazgul said:
Pros dont live for the entertainment of the viewers. They play the game because they love it, just like the viewers do. They play as pros because they have the ability to win money with playing a game they love. The have the opportunity to win money, because the game has such a widespread fanbase which is interesting for sponsors. Ofc they entertain the viewers in the process, but do you really think the pros would play if there were no money on the line? Just for the entertainment of the viewers? I guess thats quite naive.
All this anger is based upon this double-standard. viewers DO TAKE the players perspective into consideration, at least the vast majority does, otherwise there would be no way that most of the people, even the "haters" would say that sjows actions are "understandable".
But the disappointing part is, that NOT ONE player (or "not-viewer" in general) has said, that the viewers reactions are "understandable".
So even though there are some people in the 10000 viewers that do not take the players perspective into consideration that should not mean that it is ok for the ~32 players to ignore the viewers. You cant just always expect us to do that and not even do it yourself, thats just bogus.
Greetz
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EPT
