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On October 23 2010 12:53 fatvirgin90 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2010 12:47 dukethegold wrote:
Boxer is awesome. He definitely came closer to defeating Fruitdealer than any other Terran in the GSL.
I think this will be an educational experience for him. Top? Top would have one easily if the Ultra bug fix had been implemented,
No, Top would have won if the ultra nerf (patch 1.1.2) was implemented. That discussion was concluded a long time ago.
Also this is not imbalanced, terran just needs to find a way to harass expos now. Think about starcraft BW, Zerg has lurkers, nydus canal, defilers and scourge to defend expos, and yet Flash still can pick off expos. Calm down.
Also seriously, all you terrans complaining, your race was imbalanced for a long time, let zerg have some fun you pricks =P
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Day9, Tasteless, & Artosis had the best casting in this series I have ever heard. Wow those 3 were fantastic together.
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On October 23 2010 12:53 fatvirgin90 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2010 12:47 dukethegold wrote:
Boxer is awesome. He definitely came closer to defeating Fruitdealer than any other Terran in the GSL.
I think this will be an educational experience for him. Top? Top would have one easily if the Ultra bug fix had been implemented,
Yes because the prepatch ultras wouldn't have done the exact same thing to Top's thors.
Oh wait.
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On October 23 2010 12:54 imJealous wrote:
You can Rewind the stream! the green bar along the bottom of the screen is a bar you can click on to rewind to any point in the day's casting. I'm rewatching the series now. I downloaded the "rayv player" thing if that matters, don't know if the rewind function works on the lite flash version
Sadly, when I look at either the Lite Flash or the RayV player, all I get is this:
![[image loading]](http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e399/MrSexington/blizzardfail2.png)
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carefoot is restreaming the second game between Boxer and Fruitdealer right now.
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On October 23 2010 12:56 fatvirgin90 wrote:
Anyone else think Boxer was just rubbing into noobdealer's face that he's better at the end when he killed every drone?
Boxer knows he will stomp this kid 2-0 when he actually tries in the GSL.
fatvirgin90
QED
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On October 23 2010 12:57 OreoBoi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2010 12:53 fatvirgin90 wrote:On October 23 2010 12:47 dukethegold wrote:
Boxer is awesome. He definitely came closer to defeating Fruitdealer than any other Terran in the GSL.
I think this will be an educational experience for him. Top? Top would have one easily if the Ultra bug fix had been implemented, No, Top would have won if the ultra nerf (patch 1.1.2) was implemented. That discussion was concluded a long time ago. Also this is not imbalanced, terran just needs to find a way to harass expos now. Think about starcraft BW, Zerg has lurkers, nydus canal, defilers and scourge to defend expos, and yet Flash still can pick off expos. Calm down. Also seriously, all you terrans complaining, your race was imbalanced for a long time, let zerg have some fun you pricks =P
flash is the best player in the world.
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It's not like boxer is a top-of-the-line player at Brood War at the moment, either. The current best Starcraft 2 player outplays an old pro who recently switched, and suddenly zerg becomes imba.
Cool is on a totally different level than boxer.
Cool has played the game a lot longer.
Cool is younger.
Cool outmacroed, outmicroed, and straight up outplayed boxer in both games.
Boxer made some grave errors, and while they didn't cause him to lose, they did hurt the rest of his game.
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Imbalance is something to consider when both players are playing near flawlessly, but one can't quite kill the other, while the other can. Thought I'd just contribute that idea to this thread that has derailed into a discussion about balance.
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*Leaves thread due to imba discussion*
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On October 23 2010 12:57 pieisamazing wrote:
It's not like boxer is a top-of-the-line player at Brood War at the moment, either. The current best Starcraft 2 player outplays an old pro who recently switched, and suddenly zerg becomes imba.
Cool is on a totally different level than boxer.
Cool has played the game a lot longer.
Cool is younger.
Cool outmacroed, outmicroed, and straight up outplayed boxer in both games.
Boxer made some grave errors, and while they didn't cause him to lose, they did hurt the rest of his game.
I stopped reading at outmicroed.
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On October 23 2010 12:56 kojinshugi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2010 12:54 formthehead wrote:
thank god blizzard doesn't listen to forum complaints or evaluate a matchup from one single game when they try and balance the game for competitive play
isn't raging about imba while completely ignoring player decisions in a live report thread a bannable offense? Who's raging about imba? I see more posts complaining about balance whining than I see actual balance whining. It's not unreasonable to talk about matchups if it's constructive and not outright whining. After an epic ZvT it's natural that people will talk about how lategame ZvT works.
It's interesting that you would call that lategame because Cool never made a single ultralisk or broodlord the entire series. Did he ever tech to hive?
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On October 23 2010 12:58 MrMotionPicture wrote:
*Leaves thread due to imba discussion*
Sadly, I'm going to as well.
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its ok to nerdgasm about boxer and his skill and so on guys but.. he is really a limited player nowadays, his macro isnt good enough to compete at midlate game vs some of the new generation pros
and no, his macro was never better than now, probably even worse at some points in his career (see him having trouble beating protoss in his heyday, a matchup based on economy and army size, not so much strategy or positioning as tvz or tvt)
what would the sc2 community in tl.net say if flash and jaedong decided to switch over for a little while i wonder ;P the skillgap is still huge
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On October 23 2010 12:54 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2010 12:52 kojinshugi wrote:On October 23 2010 12:48 teamsolid wrote:
These Terran trolls are so annoying, are you gonna complain that PvT is horribly imbalanced too if Boxer loses to his P opponent in Ro32? Hardly anyone's really frothing at the mouth about it. If you want to seriously argue the fact that Zerg will win any macro war against the other two races in late game, go right ahead. I think the solution to defeating Zerg will be from denying expos throughout the game, because it's inherently impossible to outmacro them if you just try to split the map. Guess what, ZvP works the same way. Zerg will inevitably outmacro the P if you just let them freely expand all over the map, that's just inherently how the Z race works. But you know... P deals with this through carefully thought out timing pushes at various stages of the game. Terrans just haven't adapted yet, and would rather whine about it.
Why are you being so hostile? I said "the other two races". I'm not saying Z is too strong. I'm saying Z macro is stronger, so people should probably try deny the macro from ramping up instead of trading armies. Boxer would have probably done better if he'd denied those expos with timely scouting and a single medivac.
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On October 23 2010 12:52 mav451 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2010 12:50 Jehct wrote:
As a Z player ZvT was my fav matchup pre-patch - though it felt very punishing to learn as your timings needed to be really crisp and tight, it was overall pretty balanced; I really feel like the supply before barracks change and reaper speed change are whats making the difference now and turning it Z favoured. ZvP feels really nice now but ZvT seems and feels Z favoured; Fruitdealer got away with being so greedy in those games, seems like zerg just has a touch too much room now for the matchup to be fair.
Of course, it could simply be the readjustment as people like Fruitdealer got REALLY good at ZvT prepatch and now it's just downright easier - might be asking too much for Boxer to be able to compete at that level already, though he was definitely really really close. Time will tell if zergs OP or terran strategy development/execution behind I guess. Awesome games all the same. Agreed. Someone already touched on this. Zerg too fragile early, a bit too strong in macro later. How the heck is Blizzard going to find a happy medium? They nerfed Toss and Terran early rush openings to death now, so now what do they do?
They don't allow larvas to stockpile at more than the normal amount + queen inject bonus, problem solved. If they really want 1 billion larvas they would have to build hatcheries at least, cause right now it's retarded, you're not punished for missing production cycle, larvas are just being stockpiled. When you forget to macro up as terran (or even as protoss) it's effective units lost, not delayed.
Boxer was actually really surprisingly good, but cool is just too good for now, he'll catch up later
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On October 23 2010 12:58 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2010 12:56 kojinshugi wrote:On October 23 2010 12:54 formthehead wrote:
thank god blizzard doesn't listen to forum complaints or evaluate a matchup from one single game when they try and balance the game for competitive play
isn't raging about imba while completely ignoring player decisions in a live report thread a bannable offense? Who's raging about imba? I see more posts complaining about balance whining than I see actual balance whining. It's not unreasonable to talk about matchups if it's constructive and not outright whining. After an epic ZvT it's natural that people will talk about how lategame ZvT works. It's interesting that you would call that lategame because Cool never made a single ultralisk or broodlord the entire series. Did he ever tech to hive?
Lategame - your natural is mined out. Teching is a silly measure of game progress.
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On October 23 2010 12:56 JoshK wrote:
I've tried both players, even rewinding and I still get that stupid red block sigh...
same : (
up until the error the matches were freakin amazing though.
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EPT
