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On August 21 2010 00:25 shlomo wrote:
Jinro: read the post above yours.
But seriously, are we going to argue over the skill it takes to pull of reaper, hellion, banshee harass vs the skill it takes to cover your ass against all of it with zerglings/queen/crawler while taking an expo and still not come out crippled? Rofl. Must be why Zerg is all over the ladder amirite bro?
actually the problem is that you can't micro zerg units not that theyre hard to micro.
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which tournaments? how many? how many times have they played each other in the tournaments?
u realize that "king of the hill" thing isn't actually a tournament right? It's just the winner playing random challengers...
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how about WTA takedown?
In fact, HDH2 will show whos the best, no need to discuss that here.
Cant wait for the Nada game.
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On August 21 2010 02:03 Philosophy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 02:02 travis wrote:On August 21 2010 01:58 Philosophy wrote:On August 21 2010 01:42 kagemucha wrote:
Idra beat Tester in the finals (it even had to go to ace), but also got swept in the group stage of KOTB. So it wasn't that much of a difference. Plus, that was over a month ago, I think Tester could take Idra now. Koreans are just way too good. Ensnare and TheStc are better than Tester (some might argue its race related tho). and you know this how give me a break, people Recent tournaments?
Tester says Terran is too strong currently.
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So you have concluded that ensnare and thestc are better than tester based upon one tournament.
Was tester even in that tournament??
dude, you don't find out "who is best" from one tournament or even a few tournaments. finding out who is on top is a long and rigorous process, because there is plenty of luck in sc.
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On August 21 2010 02:12 travis wrote:
So you have concluded that ensnare and thestc are better than tester based upon one tournament.
Was tester even in that tournament??
dude, you don't find out "who is best" from one tournament or even a few tournaments. finding out who is on top is a long and rigorous process, because there is plenty of luck in sc.
For the record, there was also another garimnto WTA tourney in mid-July with these players:
TheStC, Hannibal, Check, HyperDub, Ensnare, Cool, Junwi, Genius, Zenio, Evah
TheStC won it over Cool. (the games were ugly)
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On August 21 2010 02:09 Philosophy wrote:
how about WTA takedown?
In fact, HDH2 will show whos the best, no need to discuss that here.
Cant wait for the Nada game.
Please stop making claims based on limited information. King of the Hill is a 2nd rate show in Korea it is meaningless. Tester and Cool are winning a lot of the big stuff on GOM.
The information from Korea that gets through to be posted in our forums in a coherent manner is pretty limited. To start making assumption based on meaningless shows is the worst thing we can do.
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On August 21 2010 01:49 thesighter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 01:44 Brad wrote:On August 21 2010 01:42 kagemucha wrote:
Idra beat Tester in the finals (it even had to go to ace), but also got swept in the group stage of KOTB. So it wasn't that much of a difference. Plus, that was over a month ago, I think Tester could take Idra now. Koreans are just way too good. That's an argument based on no facts. 'Plus, that was over a month ago' That's saying IdrA hasn't gotten better in the past month. at this point, i think that idra is even with or slightly better than the top ogs guys (tester, thestc, itr, cool). maybe like 60-40, it's still a coin flip, not huge difference in skill level.
Based on what?
Idra has a losing record against Tester.
In the only tournament he and Cool competed in (the SC2 World Cup, which had just about every top player in Europe and Asia), Idra went 1-2 in his group and was eliminated, while Cool won the whole thing.
ThesTc has won the last 3 tournaments he's entered, beating the likes of Ensnare, Check and Cool on the way, whereas the last 3 tournaments Idra entered (before IEM) he was eliminated by guys like Silver and Zelniq.
Idra's record against the top Asian players really isn't that great, so to crown him the best in the world for his achievements against US and European players (and 1 win against Tester, after multiple losses) seems a little premature.
For what it's worth I think Idra is probably the best foreigner (though I guess that will be decided this weekend) but he's yet to prove himself better than the top Koreans.
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maybe i missed something, but i see 0 protosses in the bracket... umm what?
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When will you people understand... a white guy being better than Koreans, at Starcraft?!
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I don't think the Protoss pro players have developed very strong strategies to counter the more effective T and Z play coming out of the woodworks.
Give it some time, I'm sure those guys are cooking something up to handle the early T aggression and the heavy Z macro.
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On August 21 2010 02:53 Rkie wrote:
maybe i missed something, but i see 0 protosses in the bracket... umm what?
It was HuK's first event, he didn't play to his level. White-Ra lost in some weird games. HasuObs and NaNi just lost to better players.
HuK and White-Ra are the most likely disappointments.
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On August 21 2010 02:03 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 00:25 shlomo wrote:
Jinro: read the post above yours.
But seriously, are we going to argue over the skill it takes to pull of reaper, hellion, banshee harass vs the skill it takes to cover your ass against all of it with zerglings/queen/crawler while taking an expo and still not come out crippled? Rofl. Must be why Zerg is all over the ladder amirite bro? actually the problem is that you can't micro zerg units not that theyre hard to micro.
You can't micro zerg units? Did you see Idra's insane roach mass micro in game 5 vs sarens? The way he achieved such a perfect concave with so many units was remarkable.
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On August 21 2010 02:17 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 02:09 Philosophy wrote:
how about WTA takedown?
In fact, HDH2 will show whos the best, no need to discuss that here.
Cant wait for the Nada game. Please stop making claims based on limited information. King of the Hill is a 2nd rate show in Korea it is meaningless. Tester and Cool are winning a lot of the big stuff on GOM. The information from Korea that gets through to be posted in our forums in a coherent manner is pretty limited. To start making assumption based on meaningless shows is the worst thing we can do.
So because TheStc won recent tournaments and dominated in the "second rate" King of the Hill, one shouldnt assume that hes at the very top now?
I dunno, like I said, HDH2 will eventually show.
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On August 21 2010 02:57 Brad wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 02:53 Rkie wrote:
maybe i missed something, but i see 0 protosses in the bracket... umm what? It was HuK's first event, he didn't play to his level. White-Ra lost in some weird games. HasuObs and NaNi just lost to better players. HuK and White-Ra are the most likely disappointments.
Watching HuK play that FE build vs. Artosis was painful. While I don't disagree with the motive, the execution was all wrong. I think the biggest problem with playing the aggresive FE is the fact that you put yourself behind in tech and that opens the door for a Zerg player to counter with all sorts of effective harass.
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God, why can't you all enjoy the games and just stfu ? Seriously those arguments reminds me of the constant imba comments from war3 to justify their loses...
I'm by no means saying this mu is balanced or not but there's one thing that pisses me off so much : the need for players to say "imba" instead of GG just because they don't see their race winning in any tournaments. Seriously ? Just stfu and grow up. I'm getting sick of it.
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Feeding the fire with more trash talk isn't going to solve your problem, FYI.
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On August 21 2010 02:58 kar1181 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 02:03 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 21 2010 00:25 shlomo wrote:
Jinro: read the post above yours.
But seriously, are we going to argue over the skill it takes to pull of reaper, hellion, banshee harass vs the skill it takes to cover your ass against all of it with zerglings/queen/crawler while taking an expo and still not come out crippled? Rofl. Must be why Zerg is all over the ladder amirite bro? actually the problem is that you can't micro zerg units not that theyre hard to micro. You can't micro zerg units? Did you see Idra's insane roach mass micro in game 5 vs sarens? The way he achieved such a perfect concave with so many units was remarkable.
JEEBUZ
Did u read the post i quoted?
We're talking early game.
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On August 21 2010 00:29 Gunman_csz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 00:17 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 23:43 shlomo wrote:On August 20 2010 23:31 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 22:28 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 20 2010 22:16 Gleen wrote:
Dimaga and Idra.
ZvZ Finals to put an end in the Terran OP concern cause one tourney zerg wins magically makes all the tourneys terran won go away. When it's the biggest tournament to date, yes? And Terran has never won a big event. Ever. World Cup? Zerg. Kaspersky Cup? Zerg. King of the beta? Zerg. Maybe because sticking to the weak early game race which always has to defend all this early cheese / allins makes you a more solid player overall, whereas playing the cheesemaster race (aka Terran) will get you used to sloppy play and relying on bullshit crutches rather than actual skill? The top Zergs like IdrA and Dimaga are clearly better players and by a significant margin atm, it's only fair if they win. Doesn't mean T isn't the cheesemaster/easymode race or that ZvT isn't an uphill battle. I think I remember watching a game on Kulas of you vs Lalush I think? (Or maybe not, I forget who the zerg was). And as good as you are, it's incredible how sloppy and generally passive a Terran is allowed to be, and how many mistakes he can make and still take the game, vs how brutally unforgiving Zerg is, and how constantly hyperactive they have to be to stay competitive. So yeah, top players who stick with Zerg end up being straightforwardly better. Surprise? Not really. LOL You realize you just used the "X race players are just better" argument, the very same argument that people have been using to justify good results of terrans? How the hell are players like Demuslim, Bratok, TLO etc on a lower level than IdrA/Dimaga? It's just ridiculous to claim this. On August 20 2010 23:59 aznhockeyboy16 wrote:On August 20 2010 23:55 Hjertify wrote:On August 20 2010 23:50 Kurumi wrote:On August 20 2010 23:45 aznhockeyboy16 wrote:
dude... MadFrog isn't nearly on the same level mechanically that Idra is. TLO was favoured vs Morrow.. And he lost. Tarson never was favoured and.. won. Expect unexpected my friend! The less games are predictable,the better they are! :D but thats becouse people favoured players they liked mroe then in skill term. Most people knew that morrows TvT is betetr then TLO's and that Madfrogs macro/gamesense is still not good enougth for this tournament.. there's also the fact that we haven't heard much about Morrow in SC2, and I had never heard of Tarson. but yeah... this. MorroW has been the best swedish Terran throughout the entire beta pretty much... There was a brief period where he was kinda slumping hard but not long. Also, you should take a look at Tarson's beta profile - he tore shit up at the end of the beta. You do realize that QQing is the reason why you will always be in the shadow of TLO and other Europeans. Bravo my friend, keep spamming on these forums instead of training, Now I know why you didn't get invited (Not like you could have passed the group stage anyways). Jinro have you ever wondered why every freaking Terran out their will suggest TvZ is their best Match-up and Every Zerg will say ZvT is their worst?
And who are you? How can you even get away with saying stuff like that?
Jinro, stop getting trolled by 1 liners. It's sad to witness. If the mods actually banned these idiots, maybe every SC2 forum thread wouldn't turn into a balance whine debate.
Oh look, it's happened again.
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I don't know, it's interesting to hear a top player's thoughts about balance, so go ahead and bait Jinro I'd say.
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EPT
