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On August 17 2010 02:19 backache wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 02:15 Fayth wrote:On August 17 2010 01:42 backache wrote:On August 17 2010 01:15 kajeus wrote:On August 17 2010 01:04 Klive5ive wrote:On August 16 2010 23:46 kajeus wrote:
lol, this attitude in this community gets so old so fast.
We're all "nerds," fine. If by that you mean we really like Starcraft.
But Jesus, most of us are probably pretty cool people. I know I'm not socially awkward or gross. I like Starcraft, yeah, but I still have a cool job, cool skills, cute girlfriends, nice fashion sense, and a pretty awesome demeanor. I've burned so much time on this forum this summer because I'm translating from home until I fly out to my job abroad in... 7 days. Lol insecure much? You felt the need to justify your life in 1 sentence, congratulations..... but you still watch Starcraft. So yeah you'd be considered a "nerd" by many and expect you don't watch HDStarcraft in front of you're girlfriend, I know I don't. But ultimately you can't deny that lots of people who play/watch this game are socially awkward. That doesn't mean they ALL are. Personally I don't think there's any problem with that. :-/ Whatever, man. Ask Tasteless what it's like to be a nerd, I guess. Honestly, I have watched Starcraft around girlfriends. Not the biggest deal in the world. I mean, it's not like I'm watching BDSM porn. I make fun of myself for watching pewpew aliens and show them Bisu or Jaedong and make fun of how APM is so hot. But it's not like it takes over my life, so they don't care. Amen to "there's no problem with that." Cheers. You're a joke, have an internet high-five for having a girlfriend! If you're so cool get off this board and do some "cool" things. Go somewhere else and tell people how awesome you are. I love all these 19yr olds with opinions such as "idra is bad for the game.." blah blah... All this drama is good for the game and good for idra. He's creating an image, name recognition, which turns into more views and more dollars for advertising/sponsors. He's a smart dude, and maybe he's doing it intentionally - but it doesn't matter. Everyone who types up a response here is taking time out of their day to think about idra. He stays on your mind. His bm is the reason I watch him. Good for him. I don't like all this "manners" bullshit anyway. I'd prefer to see the teams and players shit talking eachother, it adds to the joy of watching. But above all he is an amazing player. And to the casual sc2 viewer, a tournament isn't a tournament without idra. ESL should know this. People who make these sports analogies don't have any idea what they are talking about. Just because you don't hear about it on ESPN doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If players were mic'd up during games middle-america would lose their shit - just like people are losing it here. HE'S NOT doing it intentionally, he's a genuine angry nerd, really wether it's good for publicity or not The intent doesn't matter. If it isn't intentional, then it's genuine, and even better. People making posts using "nerd" and "angry nerd" as a pejorative crack me up. You're posting on a forum dedicated to a video game. When you aren't playing the game, you're reading about it. Ease up on the "nerd" business. We're all nerds here.
yeah you're right, being an oversensitive little crybaby is so good lol...
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On August 17 2010 02:17 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 02:15 ValorS wrote:Well, those were from a week ago. I'm pretty sure he means he got it from the events that occurred yesterday. Yea, I completely understand, I'm just trying to show there's a history here. In fact, I think there's a history of all Starcraft commentators being resistant to and offended by criticism in general... Not sure why that is :O!
most men defines themselves by their ability to do something, so clearly a man who is attacked in this manner is gonna show some resistance
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On August 17 2010 02:19 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 01:45 Slow Motion wrote:
You can't just expect players to be automatically professionals. Professionalism has to be developed and forced by the organization. Look at any sport. They have to deal with some of the most immature, stupid, spoiled jocks in the world. They can still get them in line though with an established system of rewards and punishments. Their rules are, for the most part, clear and unequivocal.
Why do you think Idra would never ever do any of the shit he does in the foreign scene in Korea? He knows exactly what would happen if he did x or y. In the foreign scene, we have no idea what would happen in case of x or y, and decisions are often reversed and made on the spot. Now I actually like some allowance of BM and casualness in the foreign scene, but if you're trying to develop a professional sport then you're better off following the Korean model.
Basic behaviorism people. Human beings behave like savages until you show them the carrot and the stick, and show that you can apply either one consistently in any given situation. Idra is only human, it's up to the organization to set up and apply an effective system if they want to control his behavior. The organizers here have not done that. shudn't it be a given at this point that any professional who has been professional for say.. more than a year, acts like a professional? T_t
Just look at this thread and every other one regarding Idra to see all of the positive reinforcement he gets from his behavior in the foreign scene. Hell even I reinforce his behavior because I find it amusing and makes me care more about his matches (in that I want to see him lose against a random and rage).
If you take a professional out of an environment of professionalism, of course it's not gonna last.
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I define myself by how big of a T I am in relation to other Ts
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On August 17 2010 02:21 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 02:19 backache wrote:On August 17 2010 02:15 Fayth wrote:On August 17 2010 01:42 backache wrote:On August 17 2010 01:15 kajeus wrote:On August 17 2010 01:04 Klive5ive wrote:On August 16 2010 23:46 kajeus wrote:
lol, this attitude in this community gets so old so fast.
We're all "nerds," fine. If by that you mean we really like Starcraft.
But Jesus, most of us are probably pretty cool people. I know I'm not socially awkward or gross. I like Starcraft, yeah, but I still have a cool job, cool skills, cute girlfriends, nice fashion sense, and a pretty awesome demeanor. I've burned so much time on this forum this summer because I'm translating from home until I fly out to my job abroad in... 7 days. Lol insecure much? You felt the need to justify your life in 1 sentence, congratulations..... but you still watch Starcraft. So yeah you'd be considered a "nerd" by many and expect you don't watch HDStarcraft in front of you're girlfriend, I know I don't. But ultimately you can't deny that lots of people who play/watch this game are socially awkward. That doesn't mean they ALL are. Personally I don't think there's any problem with that. :-/ Whatever, man. Ask Tasteless what it's like to be a nerd, I guess. Honestly, I have watched Starcraft around girlfriends. Not the biggest deal in the world. I mean, it's not like I'm watching BDSM porn. I make fun of myself for watching pewpew aliens and show them Bisu or Jaedong and make fun of how APM is so hot. But it's not like it takes over my life, so they don't care. Amen to "there's no problem with that." Cheers. You're a joke, have an internet high-five for having a girlfriend! If you're so cool get off this board and do some "cool" things. Go somewhere else and tell people how awesome you are. I love all these 19yr olds with opinions such as "idra is bad for the game.." blah blah... All this drama is good for the game and good for idra. He's creating an image, name recognition, which turns into more views and more dollars for advertising/sponsors. He's a smart dude, and maybe he's doing it intentionally - but it doesn't matter. Everyone who types up a response here is taking time out of their day to think about idra. He stays on your mind. His bm is the reason I watch him. Good for him. I don't like all this "manners" bullshit anyway. I'd prefer to see the teams and players shit talking eachother, it adds to the joy of watching. But above all he is an amazing player. And to the casual sc2 viewer, a tournament isn't a tournament without idra. ESL should know this. People who make these sports analogies don't have any idea what they are talking about. Just because you don't hear about it on ESPN doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If players were mic'd up during games middle-america would lose their shit - just like people are losing it here. HE'S NOT doing it intentionally, he's a genuine angry nerd, really wether it's good for publicity or not The intent doesn't matter. If it isn't intentional, then it's genuine, and even better. People making posts using "nerd" and "angry nerd" as a pejorative crack me up. You're posting on a forum dedicated to a video game. When you aren't playing the game, you're reading about it. Ease up on the "nerd" business. We're all nerds here. yeah you're right, being an oversensitive little crybaby is so good lol...
Love him or hate him, you're talking about him. You care one way or the other. This thread/story is like the tabloid press of starcraft2. And it is good for sc2 and tournies in general. Just like tabloid magazines get people into movie theaters. Same game, different arena.
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On August 17 2010 02:28 Slow Motion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 02:19 Fayth wrote:On August 17 2010 01:45 Slow Motion wrote:
You can't just expect players to be automatically professionals. Professionalism has to be developed and forced by the organization. Look at any sport. They have to deal with some of the most immature, stupid, spoiled jocks in the world. They can still get them in line though with an established system of rewards and punishments. Their rules are, for the most part, clear and unequivocal.
Why do you think Idra would never ever do any of the shit he does in the foreign scene in Korea? He knows exactly what would happen if he did x or y. In the foreign scene, we have no idea what would happen in case of x or y, and decisions are often reversed and made on the spot. Now I actually like some allowance of BM and casualness in the foreign scene, but if you're trying to develop a professional sport then you're better off following the Korean model.
Basic behaviorism people. Human beings behave like savages until you show them the carrot and the stick, and show that you can apply either one consistently in any given situation. Idra is only human, it's up to the organization to set up and apply an effective system if they want to control his behavior. The organizers here have not done that. shudn't it be a given at this point that any professional who has been professional for say.. more than a year, acts like a professional? T_t Just look at this thread and every other one regarding Idra to see all of the positive reinforcement he gets from his behavior in the foreign scene. Hell even I reinforce his behavior because I find it amusing and makes me care more about his matches (in that I want to see him lose against a random and rage). If you take a professional out of an environment of professionalism, of course it's not gonna last.
of course it's entertaining to see him rage, but MOST people really only wants to see him lose to see that lol, people don't cheer for him, they wanna see him lose his mind over a lost game which is sad considering he's our only foreigner in korea for the moment... I'd rather see him being friendly and mannered so we could truly cheer for him... =(
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Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On August 17 2010 00:34 robertdinh wrote:
No one said esl should get away with not paying players, i've openly ragged on them for it before. Doesn't mean idra should act the way he does.
You don't like how he acts, fine, this is your personal opinion. But why do you think you can tell people how they should act?
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On August 17 2010 02:34 Random() wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 00:34 robertdinh wrote:
No one said esl should get away with not paying players, i've openly ragged on them for it before. Doesn't mean idra should act the way he does. You don't like how he acts, fine, this is your personal opinion. But why do you think you can tell people how they should act?
cuz there are actually some guidelines to live in society, you don't go around killing random people for a reason
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On August 17 2010 02:35 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 02:34 Random() wrote:On August 17 2010 00:34 robertdinh wrote:
No one said esl should get away with not paying players, i've openly ragged on them for it before. Doesn't mean idra should act the way he does. You don't like how he acts, fine, this is your personal opinion. But why do you think you can tell people how they should act? cuz there are actually some guidelines to live in society, you don't go around killing random people for a reason
...that's a bit far fetched.
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imo the reason E-sports doesnt make it well here in america is simply beceause its video games. the general society of America doesnt take video games seriously and never will no matter how competitive it gets. at the end of the day in Americas eyes we will all just be "children that play video games". this is why it wont get much success. the sponsors for the tournaments we do have like razer are only using us to sell there SC2 razer products cuz they think it wont sell other wise.
just my 2 cents about it tho. but i honestly dont think we will get any real serious and top sponsors and SCBW nor SC2 certainly will never be as big as it is over in korea. to me its just a hopeless dream cuz i just dont see it happening. after all there are other big games out there more popular then SC2 yet still isnt made into a big deal. infact i dont think many ppl outside of the RTS community even know what starcraft is.
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On August 17 2010 02:31 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 02:28 Slow Motion wrote:On August 17 2010 02:19 Fayth wrote:On August 17 2010 01:45 Slow Motion wrote:
You can't just expect players to be automatically professionals. Professionalism has to be developed and forced by the organization. Look at any sport. They have to deal with some of the most immature, stupid, spoiled jocks in the world. They can still get them in line though with an established system of rewards and punishments. Their rules are, for the most part, clear and unequivocal.
Why do you think Idra would never ever do any of the shit he does in the foreign scene in Korea? He knows exactly what would happen if he did x or y. In the foreign scene, we have no idea what would happen in case of x or y, and decisions are often reversed and made on the spot. Now I actually like some allowance of BM and casualness in the foreign scene, but if you're trying to develop a professional sport then you're better off following the Korean model.
Basic behaviorism people. Human beings behave like savages until you show them the carrot and the stick, and show that you can apply either one consistently in any given situation. Idra is only human, it's up to the organization to set up and apply an effective system if they want to control his behavior. The organizers here have not done that. shudn't it be a given at this point that any professional who has been professional for say.. more than a year, acts like a professional? T_t Just look at this thread and every other one regarding Idra to see all of the positive reinforcement he gets from his behavior in the foreign scene. Hell even I reinforce his behavior because I find it amusing and makes me care more about his matches (in that I want to see him lose against a random and rage). If you take a professional out of an environment of professionalism, of course it's not gonna last. of course it's entertaining to see him rage, but MOST people really only wants to see him lose to see that lol, people don't cheer for him, they wanna see him lose his mind over a lost game which is sad considering he's our only foreigner in korea for the moment... I'd rather see him being friendly and mannered so we could truly cheer for him... =(
You're missing the point. The point is people watch. The point is it's a storyline, there is a story outside of the game, a theme. It doesn't matter if he's infamous or some people love to hate him. View counts matter, an audience matters how they get there is irrelevant, but it's threads like these that get people there, and that word-of-mouth (good or bad) advertising is invaluable.
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On August 17 2010 01:39 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 01:33 Kishkumen wrote:
I appreciate what the two are doing for the community by bringing awareness to people like me, but I also wanted to say that not all TL noobs are blind HD and Husky worshippers. You'd be surprised how many people are. I can't count how many times I've heard "well the only casters i know about are HD and Husky, and they are obviously the best"...
That shocks me. I stumbled across HD's casts first and loved them at the time, but I came to teamliquid for the elitism.. I can survive being called an idiot (especially when I'm being one) and in my opinion the thing that makes teamliquid so great is the elitism itself; the appreciation and value given to pro players on this site is exactly as it should be.
The sentiment among some of TL that only pro players should cast is unnecessary imo (if people want to watch "entertaining" casts, let them..) but I also think people complaining about criticisms of these casters (ie, when HD misnames units or chill doing a cast of a cast) are fucking whiney bitches. seriously, you can cast whatever you want, but by the same token people can say anything about your casting that they want.
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On August 17 2010 02:36 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 02:35 Fayth wrote:On August 17 2010 02:34 Random() wrote:On August 17 2010 00:34 robertdinh wrote:
No one said esl should get away with not paying players, i've openly ragged on them for it before. Doesn't mean idra should act the way he does. You don't like how he acts, fine, this is your personal opinion. But why do you think you can tell people how they should act? cuz there are actually some guidelines to live in society, you don't go around killing random people for a reason ...that's a bit far fetched.
yeah this exemple is quite extreme but it's just to show there are actually ways to behave in public
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On August 17 2010 02:35 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 02:34 Random() wrote:On August 17 2010 00:34 robertdinh wrote:
No one said esl should get away with not paying players, i've openly ragged on them for it before. Doesn't mean idra should act the way he does. You don't like how he acts, fine, this is your personal opinion. But why do you think you can tell people how they should act? cuz there are actually some guidelines to live in society, you don't go around killing random people for a reason
It's not against the law to have bad manners... also, bad manners alone is not responsible for murdering people. People can behave how they want to behave, and lots of them will accept the consequences
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On August 17 2010 02:36 Ballistixz wrote:
just my 2 cents about it tho. but i honestly dont think we will get any real serious and top sponsors and SCBW nor SC2 certainly will never be as big as it is over in korea. to me its just a hopeless dream cuz i just dont see it happening. after all there are other big games out there more popular then SC2 yet still isnt made into a big deal. infact i dont think many ppl outside of the RTS community even know what starcraft is.
dude...
do u know how many copies sc2 sold.. ?
have u seen how many views hdh and husky vids get?
and im pretty sure there actually aren't any games out there more popular than sc2 lol
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On August 17 2010 02:38 backache wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 02:31 Fayth wrote:On August 17 2010 02:28 Slow Motion wrote:On August 17 2010 02:19 Fayth wrote:On August 17 2010 01:45 Slow Motion wrote:
You can't just expect players to be automatically professionals. Professionalism has to be developed and forced by the organization. Look at any sport. They have to deal with some of the most immature, stupid, spoiled jocks in the world. They can still get them in line though with an established system of rewards and punishments. Their rules are, for the most part, clear and unequivocal.
Why do you think Idra would never ever do any of the shit he does in the foreign scene in Korea? He knows exactly what would happen if he did x or y. In the foreign scene, we have no idea what would happen in case of x or y, and decisions are often reversed and made on the spot. Now I actually like some allowance of BM and casualness in the foreign scene, but if you're trying to develop a professional sport then you're better off following the Korean model.
Basic behaviorism people. Human beings behave like savages until you show them the carrot and the stick, and show that you can apply either one consistently in any given situation. Idra is only human, it's up to the organization to set up and apply an effective system if they want to control his behavior. The organizers here have not done that. shudn't it be a given at this point that any professional who has been professional for say.. more than a year, acts like a professional? T_t Just look at this thread and every other one regarding Idra to see all of the positive reinforcement he gets from his behavior in the foreign scene. Hell even I reinforce his behavior because I find it amusing and makes me care more about his matches (in that I want to see him lose against a random and rage). If you take a professional out of an environment of professionalism, of course it's not gonna last. of course it's entertaining to see him rage, but MOST people really only wants to see him lose to see that lol, people don't cheer for him, they wanna see him lose his mind over a lost game which is sad considering he's our only foreigner in korea for the moment... I'd rather see him being friendly and mannered so we could truly cheer for him... =( You're missing the point. The point is people watch. The point is it's a storyline, there is a story outside of the game, a theme. It doesn't matter if he's infamous or some people love to hate him. View counts matter, an audience matters how they get there is irrelevant, but it's threads like these that get people there, and that word-of-mouth (good or bad) advertising is invaluable.
Unless you're one of the company owner that's going to sponsor idra I have no idea why you would support this, you're not gonna make any money from this, some people will, spectators won't
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Calgary25998 Posts
I just want to throw it out there that I've never had any problems with IdrA when things goes smoothly. I feel like he never acts first, he just takes it from a 0 to 10 when he's wronged, no matter the severity.
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Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On August 17 2010 02:35 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 02:34 Random() wrote:On August 17 2010 00:34 robertdinh wrote:
No one said esl should get away with not paying players, i've openly ragged on them for it before. Doesn't mean idra should act the way he does. You don't like how he acts, fine, this is your personal opinion. But why do you think you can tell people how they should act? cuz there are actually some guidelines to live in society, you don't go around killing random people for a reason
Yes, guidelines, but not law. Murder is a crime punishable by law.
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Oh well I guess that's his problem, he puts himself at risk by acting like this
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The point I'm trying to make is that if you want professionalism you can't just expect people to choose to act like professionals. You have to have the right rules and system set up. We have nothing like that right now in the foreign scene.
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EPT
