On April 22 2016 10:36 JohnnyDavids13 wrote: Very nice build, and guide. Won a few games trying this out
On April 21 2016 15:50 sc2chronic wrote: nice guide. as someone currently still trying to figure the best strat out for zvt, this looks very viable and... well researched/tried and tested many times. i will be trying this out on ladder.
Thank you guys! If you have any questions feel free to ask them
I havnt logged into TL in awhile, but i did just to tell you i have tried this build and it has worked with GREAT success, infact i have yet to lose a game with it. I would HIGHLY recommend this to any Zerg player, currently sitting top diamond and taking down mid / low masters players with ease and amazingly this works well in zvz as the roaches come out in time to block the ramp holding any early pool aggression and FORCING a roach ravager centric zvz game as oppose to mutas.
I also subbed to your youtube channel and look forward to future builds / guides, particularily interested in this prominant ling hydra bane timing for zvp
this is really, really great! tried it a few times and it was always successful - ok, in gold league most of the time the terran was already done after the mutas hit!
Edit: I just subscribed your channel - nice to see a swiss SC2-channel!
On April 25 2016 22:44 Digitalz1 wrote: I havnt logged into TL in awhile, but i did just to tell you i have tried this build and it has worked with GREAT success, infact i have yet to lose a game with it. I would HIGHLY recommend this to any Zerg player, currently sitting top diamond and taking down mid / low masters players with ease and amazingly this works well in zvz as the roaches come out in time to block the ramp holding any early pool aggression and FORCING a roach ravager centric zvz game as oppose to mutas.
I also subbed to your youtube channel and look forward to future builds / guides, particularily interested in this prominant ling hydra bane timing for zvp
Thanks for the feedback!
The build originally started out as a ZvZ build for me where I just blocked my ramp with 3 roaches and went straight muta! So for me it forced a muta centric ZvZ
I will try to make a guide on the ling hydra baneling ZvP style! Thanks for subbing
Why is everyone talking about banes and not lurkers ? I feel like they're more reliable especially at low levels because of many players that don't put the banes on a separate hotkey. It's even worse when they play against sentries and now they have to wait for for the drops for better use.
I know it's off topic but still I'm really curious. I just don't understand why they finally decided to add some banes on a zerg's composition against protoss all of a sudden.
So I have a question for you Railgan- I've been doing this as like my standard zvt regardless. Vs Fast Expand it works great but every now and then I run into an old school T who opens up with some sort of 2 rax opening or a cheese/ all in. If your roaches don't really do any damage and you scout some heavy all in or tier 1 pressure, is it better to keep going with the roach production? Or should you drop a bane nest and go more ling bane until you have the 1-1 ups on roach? I'm talking like pre-spire, early game all in or heavy pressure.
On April 28 2016 01:27 WeenMalkov wrote: So I have a question for you Railgan- I've been doing this as like my standard zvt regardless. Vs Fast Expand it works great but every now and then I run into an old school T who opens up with some sort of 2 rax opening or a cheese/ all in. If your roaches don't really do any damage and you scout some heavy all in or tier 1 pressure, is it better to keep going with the roach production? Or should you drop a bane nest and go more ling bane until you have the 1-1 ups on roach? I'm talking like pre-spire, early game all in or heavy pressure.
If they go 3 rax allin, which you can scout by seeing no factory and multiple rax, you should go for a roach ling or ling baneling composition as it is a very allinny build.
If they go for a standard tank marine push you can easily hold it with additionally queens until your mutas are out at which point his marines should be clearable with mutalisks.
What are you doing vs mech at the moment railgan? Seems like suiciding hellions is super strong in master league so I want to open gasless roaches because zergling speed is utterly useless vs. mech but if I don't blind prepare I feel like the hellions can just do whatever they want (including suicide themselves to kill an entire drone line) but if I blind prepare and they just take more planetaries I fall behind.
Also, Banshees denying outlying bases, that hurts, they are really really fast, I didn't even know they had a speed upgrade until I realized my Mutalisks could barely keep up.
On April 28 2016 01:27 WeenMalkov wrote: So I have a question for you Railgan- I've been doing this as like my standard zvt regardless. Vs Fast Expand it works great but every now and then I run into an old school T who opens up with some sort of 2 rax opening or a cheese/ all in. If your roaches don't really do any damage and you scout some heavy all in or tier 1 pressure, is it better to keep going with the roach production? Or should you drop a bane nest and go more ling bane until you have the 1-1 ups on roach? I'm talking like pre-spire, early game all in or heavy pressure.
If they go 3 rax allin, which you can scout by seeing no factory and multiple rax, you should go for a roach ling or ling baneling composition as it is a very allinny build.
If they go for a standard tank marine push you can easily hold it with additionally queens until your mutas are out at which point his marines should be clearable with mutalisks.
Thanks. What is your recommended transition late game if they make it past the first timing attack? I've had some issues with mass MM widow mine with 3-3 ups
On April 28 2016 01:27 WeenMalkov wrote: So I have a question for you Railgan- I've been doing this as like my standard zvt regardless. Vs Fast Expand it works great but every now and then I run into an old school T who opens up with some sort of 2 rax opening or a cheese/ all in. If your roaches don't really do any damage and you scout some heavy all in or tier 1 pressure, is it better to keep going with the roach production? Or should you drop a bane nest and go more ling bane until you have the 1-1 ups on roach? I'm talking like pre-spire, early game all in or heavy pressure.
If they go 3 rax allin, which you can scout by seeing no factory and multiple rax, you should go for a roach ling or ling baneling composition as it is a very allinny build.
If they go for a standard tank marine push you can easily hold it with additionally queens until your mutas are out at which point his marines should be clearable with mutalisks.
Thanks. What is your recommended transition late game if they make it past the first timing attack? I've had some issues with mass MM widow mine with 3-3 ups
Depends on the map. I usually go roach ravager -> infestor -> broodlord. It's a hard question to answer as it doesn't really have anything to do with the opener but the way you play the matchup generally. If the terran stays MMMM you should go infestor. If he goes Tanks you get broodlords if he goes liberators I stay Roach Ravager.
On April 28 2016 02:46 Beelzebub1 wrote: What are you doing vs mech at the moment railgan? Seems like suiciding hellions is super strong in master league so I want to open gasless roaches because zergling speed is utterly useless vs. mech but if I don't blind prepare I feel like the hellions can just do whatever they want (including suicide themselves to kill an entire drone line) but if I blind prepare and they just take more planetaries I fall behind.
Also, Banshees denying outlying bases, that hurts, they are really really fast, I didn't even know they had a speed upgrade until I realized my Mutalisks could barely keep up.
vs Air
vs Ground
This is how I play versus Mech. Basically pure Roach Ravager -> add corruptors / hydras to deal with banshees -> get Infestors to make sure you can fungal his liberators / banshees so they can't simply fly over your army and kill you. Eventually get a Broodlord / Ultra / Queen / Ravager / Viper / Infestor army.
On May 21 2016 01:01 isrtor2 wrote: hi railgun nice post, i feel like if terran goes reaper expand, scouts your roach warren, and builds a bunker in his natural he will be safe against the 3 roaches and all they did was force a bunker = 100 minerals into the terran build. Roaches are obviously more expensive.
1 bunker with 4 marines is not enough. You can simply walk past the bunker and attack his scvs. Eventually he will have a tank to clean up your Roaches but you will be able to delay his mining for some time. Alternativly you can keep your Roaches at home to deal with his drops / attacks.
The goal of the 3 roachs is to allow a save Mutalisk transition, not to kill the Terran
Thank you for the build, I use it a lot with great results. My ZvT was strong, but it even got stronger (I'm a plat and I got to beat a masters with it).
It seems that lately the terrans started adjusting to the possibility of lings coming by, followed by roaches. For example, I just played a game where my opponent scv scouted, saw my early pool, and didn't make the CC that early (also used a bunker to secure his natural).
I skipped the muta harras and went for a roach ravager baneling attack (he had a lot of marines) with the roach, bane speeed and +1 carapace which was probably a bad idea as it didn't work out that good.
How do you react if the build is scouted early on, or you don't get to do the harass you planned?
It still denies him mining time, which make the early pool pay for itself, but in those cases they are quite prepared for the roach ravager push (sieged tanks, liberators, ect). I tried the muta harras several times at these cases, but either I didn't use them correctly, or may be I should have just taken my third and get to even higher tech units. What are your suggestions?
Thank you for the build, I use it a lot with great results. My ZvT was strong, but it even got stronger (I'm a plat and I got to beat a masters with it).
It seems that lately the terrans started adjusting to the possibility of lings coming by, followed by roaches. For example, I just played a game where my opponent scv scouted, saw my early pool, and didn't make the CC that early (also used a bunker to secure his natural).
I skipped the muta harras and went for a roach ravager baneling attack (he had a lot of marines) with the roach, bane speeed and +1 carapace which was probably a bad idea as it didn't work out that good.
How do you react if the build is scouted early on, or you don't get to do the harass you planned?
It still denies him mining time, which make the early pool pay for itself, but in those cases they are quite prepared for the roach ravager push (sieged tanks, liberators, ect). I tried the muta harras several times at these cases, but either I didn't use them correctly, or may be I should have just taken my third and get to even higher tech units. What are your suggestions?
If a Terran knows my build I sometimes go for Lingspeed -> 8 Roaches and just kill him with it.
Basically this with only 1 queen and without pulling the Queens.
That is just 1 form of mixup that the build offers. You can also skip the roaches and go straight muta, drop Queens and Roaches, go Straight Nydus and many other things. However, I think going for the 3 roaches into mutas is the safest play and it's what I usually do. Mutalisks are great at dealing with all forms of terran threat and you should always build them to get your 3rd economy safely.
As for the Roach Ravager follow up you can also mix up that one. Sometimes I go Swarmhost example here sometimes I go Roach Hydra sometimes I go Ling Bane Lurker Corruptor. You are free to play as you like
Been trying it out in zvz, sending the first three roaches knowing they aren't coming back but forcing a positive trade against lings using mineral patches and denying mining time, meanwhile I can get real greedy behind it and set up for either +1/+1 roach speed attack or muta transition. So far it's been working out. I wonder why you abandoned this build in zvz?
On June 04 2016 20:20 IcemanAsi wrote: Been trying it out in zvz, sending the first three roaches knowing they aren't coming back but forcing a positive trade against lings using mineral patches and denying mining time, meanwhile I can get real greedy behind it and set up for either +1/+1 roach speed attack or muta transition. So far it's been working out. I wonder why you abandoned this build in zvz?
I can't quite remember. I think I usually got overwhelmed by ling / ling bane attacks and just gave it up
EPT
most of the time the terran was already done after the mutas hit! 
