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[G] ZvT 3 Roach Opener

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1510 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-15 14:57:08
April 09 2016 16:10 GMT
#1
Hello fellow Zergs! I am a GM Zerg on EU / NA and made my own opener called the 3 Roach Opener.

In order to showcase my build I made 4 Videos for you to give you an indepth look at the build.

Videos
+ Show Spoiler +
The Playlist
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrBGHcsfCrAgoA33gD78Bavm45P29iFV3

The Basic Buildorder


The Advanced Buildorder with more details.



A GM Game where I play this Build



Another GM ZvT



Roach Hydra Followup


3 Roach Game Casted by FalconPaladin!



I would be happy if you guys would check out the Videos and gave me some Feedback!

The Buildorder:
+ Show Spoiler +

17 Pool
18 Hatch
17 Gas
2 More Drones directly to the gas -> don't fill up gas
18 Roach Warren -> Use 1 drone from the Gas
17/22 2 Lings -> use them to harrass your oppoent
18/22 1 Queen --> use it to defend against the reaper
20/22 2 more drones straight to the gas
@First Queen done -> Start another Queen in the Main
@Roachwarren done 2 Roaches in the Main, 1 Roach in the Natural
@Natural done build a queen at the natural
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Use the 3 Roaches to harrass your opponent. If you scout mass Reaper or proxy Rax keep them at home otherwise push across the map and try to do damage.
@100 Gas / 3:05 start Lair + 1 Gas
@Lair Spire + 2 more gas
@4:10 Spores if needed / 2 More Queens if needed / 3rd base
@Spire 8 mutas / 2 evo chamber for +1 ranged / armor
@Evo chambers Roach Speed + (Optional) Hydra Den
Drone up 3 bases and kill the Terran!
Feel free to add Ravagers, Corruptors, Hydras as you need them



The Goal
+ Show Spoiler +

The build is save versus Early Aggression, allows a comfortable Mutalisk transition and pressures the Terran in the early mid game.

The Early Queen deals with the Reaper at home.

The 2 Lings try to delay the CC.

The 3 Roaches try to delay mining at the Natural for as long as possible.

The Mutalisks deal with Drop / Tank / Liberator / Banshee Harrass

The Roach Ravager (Corruptor Hydra) transition closes out the game.



I will gladly answer all your questions!
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
Beelzebub1
Profile Joined May 2015
1005 Posts
April 09 2016 18:33 GMT
#2
First off you are an amazing player and I watch every game on Falcon Paladin, awesome to see you post here.

Second, I am struggling big time with ZvP even though it's the match where Zerg supposedly can roll over any PRotoss player who isn't twice a good as his opponent.

How do you combat the heavy Immortal Adept Phoenix compositions? I'm utterly lost regarding how to engage it, what benchmarks I should be hitting with my tech/production/expansions, and the Zerg help thread hasn't been updated since release.
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1510 Posts
April 09 2016 18:45 GMT
#3
On April 10 2016 03:33 Beelzebub1 wrote:
First off you are an amazing player and I watch every game on Falcon Paladin, awesome to see you post here.

Second, I am struggling big time with ZvP even though it's the match where Zerg supposedly can roll over any PRotoss player who isn't twice a good as his opponent.

How do you combat the heavy Immortal Adept Phoenix compositions? I'm utterly lost regarding how to engage it, what benchmarks I should be hitting with my tech/production/expansions, and the Zerg help thread hasn't been updated since release.

Kinda offtopic but I think you should watch Solar vs Stats and Dark vs Stats from SSL they play Ling Hydra Bane and / or Ling Bane Broodlord.

Those two compositions work best for me. I'll do a Guide on them once I feel more comfortable with them.


Also thanks for the feedback
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
Beelzebub1
Profile Joined May 2015
1005 Posts
April 09 2016 20:41 GMT
#4
On April 10 2016 03:45 Railgan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2016 03:33 Beelzebub1 wrote:
First off you are an amazing player and I watch every game on Falcon Paladin, awesome to see you post here.

Second, I am struggling big time with ZvP even though it's the match where Zerg supposedly can roll over any PRotoss player who isn't twice a good as his opponent.

How do you combat the heavy Immortal Adept Phoenix compositions? I'm utterly lost regarding how to engage it, what benchmarks I should be hitting with my tech/production/expansions, and the Zerg help thread hasn't been updated since release.

Kinda offtopic but I think you should watch Solar vs Stats and Dark vs Stats from SSL they play Ling Hydra Bane and / or Ling Bane Broodlord.

Those two compositions work best for me. I'll do a Guide on them once I feel more comfortable with them.


Also thanks for the feedback


Definitely off topic, but I was literally going to click on the Zerg help thread when I saw this post and was stoked to see it was you of all players posting :D

The ZvT build on the topic looks fantastic, definitely going to be incorporating this into my play. I feel like putting some type of aggression on the Terran in LOTV is the right thing to do in the current meta and I've been playing a very passive and defensive style leading to...less then stellar results.
bbqs
Profile Joined December 2015
17 Posts
April 09 2016 21:13 GMT
#5
How do you counter it as terran?
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1510 Posts
April 09 2016 21:45 GMT
#6
On April 10 2016 06:13 bbqs wrote:
How do you counter it as terran?

Instant reactor no Reaper mass marine or a Marauder + Bunker shit it down completly.
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
A_Scarecrow
Profile Joined March 2013
Australia721 Posts
April 10 2016 03:51 GMT
#7
looks similar to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/499397-zvt-3-ravager-pressure-opener-luppasc2
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1510 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-10 11:20:29
April 10 2016 11:16 GMT
#8
On April 10 2016 12:51 A_Scarecrow wrote:
looks similar to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/499397-zvt-3-ravager-pressure-opener-luppasc2

It is similar but the follow up is a macro game and not an all in.

The goal of that build is to go gas first and hit a heavy timing to bust the terran and finish the game.

The goal of my build is to have a macro orientated opener that pressures the terran and makes him guess what to do.
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
April 10 2016 11:44 GMT
#9
I like the build and presentation, but isn't it incredibly reliant on the Terran not scouting?
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1510 Posts
April 10 2016 12:30 GMT
#10
On April 10 2016 20:44 KeksX wrote:
I like the build and presentation, but isn't it incredibly reliant on the Terran not scouting?

If you watch the games the terran did scout and it still works.

A Huge amoung of the reaction is open to interpretation.
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
April 10 2016 12:43 GMT
#11
True, I just watched the games. Really scrappy ones too showing how it plays out when things go wrong.

Will try it out! Thanks for the guide!
tomahawk077
Profile Joined July 2013
20 Posts
April 10 2016 14:23 GMT
#12
I think it's a strong build all zerg should have in their pocket to do once in a bo3 Isn't easy to punish, neither to scout and react without delaying your build (as terran). Counters all early aggressive builds from Ts (4 rax proxy, 3 rax reaper, ...) so it's great!
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-10 16:48:57
April 10 2016 16:47 GMT
#13
Now that I've tried this build a few times myself, this is something I will definitely do every once in a while. I'm just low masters, but it already works like a charm. I like to play aggressively and the fact that you have a follow up ready when the counter attack comes makes this really safe.

All games went me killing/damaging the SCV, killing marines with roaches, causing a liftoff, getting a spire up, having mutas ready when tankivac arrives. One guy tried one liberator but that got shut down as well. And then standard macro game with me being massively ahead.
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1510 Posts
April 10 2016 17:54 GMT
#14
On April 11 2016 01:47 KeksX wrote:
Now that I've tried this build a few times myself, this is something I will definitely do every once in a while. I'm just low masters, but it already works like a charm. I like to play aggressively and the fact that you have a follow up ready when the counter attack comes makes this really safe.

All games went me killing/damaging the SCV, killing marines with roaches, causing a liftoff, getting a spire up, having mutas ready when tankivac arrives. One guy tried one liberator but that got shut down as well. And then standard macro game with me being massively ahead.

glad you like it
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
sOcKs_
Profile Joined April 2016
1 Post
April 18 2016 00:21 GMT
#15
Thanks for the guide, this play style really fits my game well. I have tried this build in the Diamond leagues and had great success with it so far (even against Protoss and Zerg). One build that is currently wrecking me however, is a bio push that hits me around the 6:00 mark. The push usually includes either combat shield OR stim and 1 tank. I have not been scouting around the 3:45 mark as I usually would since I noticed you did not in your games. The last game I lost for example, the guy threw down 4 rax and addons pretty early so obviously the overwhelming numbers caught me by surprise. My handful of roaches + 8 mutalisk were no match. Should I be building more roaches before saturating my 3rd? Thanks in advance!
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1510 Posts
April 19 2016 19:17 GMT
#16
On April 18 2016 09:21 sOcKs_ wrote:
Thanks for the guide, this play style really fits my game well. I have tried this build in the Diamond leagues and had great success with it so far (even against Protoss and Zerg). One build that is currently wrecking me however, is a bio push that hits me around the 6:00 mark. The push usually includes either combat shield OR stim and 1 tank. I have not been scouting around the 3:45 mark as I usually would since I noticed you did not in your games. The last game I lost for example, the guy threw down 4 rax and addons pretty early so obviously the overwhelming numbers caught me by surprise. My handful of roaches + 8 mutalisk were no match. Should I be building more roaches before saturating my 3rd? Thanks in advance!


If you scout 3 Barracks you should not go for the Build and instead switch to a Standard Roach Ling or +1/+1 Roach style instead of Mutalisks.

I found out the hardway that pure bio without any tech does pretty well against Mutalisks!
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24239 Posts
April 19 2016 23:33 GMT
#17
Awesome and creative ! Watched the game vs Aqueron the build looks very convincing, it's not just a gimmick.

May I ask how you came up with it ? I'm just awful at crafting my own builds and I usually just mindlessly copy what koreans pros seem to be doing so I'm curious to know how you can have such out of the box ideas
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1510 Posts
April 20 2016 21:54 GMT
#18
On April 20 2016 08:33 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Awesome and creative ! Watched the game vs Aqueron the build looks very convincing, it's not just a gimmick.

May I ask how you came up with it ? I'm just awful at crafting my own builds and I usually just mindlessly copy what koreans pros seem to be doing so I'm curious to know how you can have such out of the box ideas

There was a similar build in HotS.

I played ~60 ZvT's against a friend over a week and tried out different build and styles. He enjoyed opening Reapers and I realised that a fast queen defends against Reapers well. Next I tried adding roaches to deal counter damage as he had only reaper / marines for defense. I then also added early lings to try and delay a bunker / cc.

Once I had the opener I had to come up with a follow up this took me a long time. I have multiple follow ups that I did not disclose in this thread / replays but the easiest is the mutalisk follow up. The reason for that is that I often had trouble dealing with Liberators / Banshees / Drops but fast Mutalisks means he has to invest in antiair, turrets and has to play more defensive.

Once I had the Mutalisks down I had to come up with a follow up to that. I tried ling bane muta but it's a hard composition to play. Instead I used my already existing Roach Warren and tried to make use of it and came up with the follow up attacks as you can see in the Replay.


Hope that clears things up
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
sc2chronic
Profile Joined May 2012
United States777 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-21 06:54:41
April 21 2016 06:50 GMT
#19
nice guide. as someone currently still trying to figure the best strat out for zvt, this looks very viable and... well researched/tried and tested many times. i will be trying this out on ladder.
terrible, terrible, damage
JohnnyDavids13
Profile Joined April 2016
4 Posts
April 22 2016 01:36 GMT
#20
Very nice build, and guide. Won a few games trying this out
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