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AusProbe
Australia235 Posts
After that I get a warp prism and have continuous immortal production and just power gateway units + immortals. Using a flank with the warp prism is also very effective. Of course you can also open stargate (grabbing a void ray really helps), but I am liking disruptor drop at the moment so I had to learn how to beat it with robo. http://lotv.spawningtool.com/10477/ Replay from dreamhack of me doing it for the first time (so it isn't the best but meh haha) | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
On February 03 2016 01:15 DinoMight wrote: They're definitely walling in early, because I get there and they're dropping the 2nd supply depot but they don't need it. It's to hide what they're doing. On the maps with the "free" back expansions you can't tell if they've taken gas or if they've expanded. Gas is a safe assumption but expanded is not... so I guess that's where my trouble is. If I do open Stargate I'm pretty good at defending it, but my trouble is with the fact that because you can't scout it you HAVE to open Stargate to avoid dying to it... Also whenever I open Stargate and they're not all-inning I get my shit pushed in. Delays Blink and Storm too much. Will have to keep experimenting I guess. Maybe I can scout with MsC, but some of these maps are huuuuuuge. Yeah, I run into the same thing. I've even seen them drop a second supply depot before barracks. I could understand that before when adepts actually did something, but now that they basically trade 1 for 1 in lower numbers, terran having defenders advantage should shut that down really easily. Though admittedly it is a pretty safe option. A complete wall off should protect them from all early game harass as they're the only one with a unit that can get around walls. Plus against protoss it shuts out any early game scouting, so they can scout with reaper even if we lock ourselves in our base, and toss out a scan. Realistically the second supply depot seems like a good option to stop all early game harass and scouting, which is huge. While having harass and scouting that can't be prevented. Though as a quick note, I just saw the new patch notes, we may have had PO nerfed into the dirt, and Adept made worthless in PvT, but they heard us, and buffed Colossus! That's right, our units might not be as strong, but at least we got a new skin for them! | ||
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
depending on your opener, make beefy - low tech units. Void rays, chargelot, adept, immortals, stalkers - all can be good. Cut probes so you have only a few in your natural, and warp in units constantly. Maybe add in one or two from time to time if the push doesnt come, or you feel safe. Try to keep a unit in front of his base to see the push or an expansion. Try to scout his army as you can to see the composition Pre position your units for a flank from 2 sides if possible, use photon o. When his army is commited to an attack. Backstabbing as he moves out with a prism Can also remove the reinforcements ( 4 zealots can potentially deny all reinforcements, force mistakes or buy you a lot of time) Remember, on one base he will lose as the game goes on. You have to only defend. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
On February 04 2016 04:29 Shield wrote: How do you confirm 2 base aggression from terran and how do you respond to it, especially if it's all-in? No third base, adding 4th and 5th rax. Don't take gasses at the third and possibly don't fully saturate it, although I usually do. | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
On February 04 2016 07:35 -HuShang- wrote: No third base, adding 4th and 5th rax. Don't take gasses at the third and possibly don't fully saturate it, although I usually do. I could be wrong but I took that to mean how to scout if it's a 2 base before you get T2 for observer/oracle to scout. Like it they open with a fast wall off with a pocket expanse. How to tell if he's going a one base all in, one base banshee play, 2 base all in... If you can't poke into his base. | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
On February 04 2016 08:16 Hyper1 wrote: I could be wrong but I took that to mean how to scout if it's a 2 base before you get T2 for observer/oracle to scout. Like it they open with a fast wall off with a pocket expanse. How to tell if he's going a one base all in, one base banshee play, 2 base all in... If you can't poke into his base. If he walls off super quickly before you can probe scout off of a 16 gateway. Pretty likely its one base. You can poke with your first units to check or just leave a probe out on the map to see if he moves out with hellions/marine cyclone. If this happens you know he is 1 base. If he doesn't do this and is still 1 base, it doesn't matter because if you play efficiently you will defend whatever he does anyways. For example, if you open stargate and he opens banshee, you can just scout with your first phoenix and kill it with your second etc... and get a robo once you find out. Basically, the tells are really subtle...  | ||
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
On February 04 2016 08:52 Hyper1 wrote: Ok, so I know we talked about this before, but I still can't seem to beat cannon rush. Which is literally every single protoss I've played against today. Well that or proxy DT. I know to pull probes to kill them, but if they just kite constantly with their probes, and drop multiple pylons at a time, even pulling every single probe can't kill them all. Then once one is up, they start dropping photon cannons to. They can drop more photon cannons and pylons than I can pump out units to stop it. -2-3 probes following every probe in your base -if a pylon wall gets up (meaning pylons that prevent a cannon from being attacked by probes) you lose, so dont let this -happen -chrono a zealot as soon as gate is done -pre-emptively block cannons from going down in good spots that are hard to kill with probes -once cannon rush is defended, get cyber and gasses but maintain scouting around your base. If he continues, dont pull probes. At this point you need to use msc + stalkers to dps down cannons. Make some pylons to use PO as well. | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
On February 04 2016 10:37 -HuShang- wrote: If he walls off super quickly before you can probe scout off of a 16 gateway. Pretty likely its one base. You can poke with your first units to check or just leave a probe out on the map to see if he moves out with hellions/marine cyclone. If this happens you know he is 1 base. If he doesn't do this and is still 1 base, it doesn't matter because if you play efficiently you will defend whatever he does anyways. For example, if you open stargate and he opens banshee, you can just scout with your first phoenix and kill it with your second etc... and get a robo once you find out. Basically, the tells are really subtle... Pretty much every terran I face opens depot, barracks, depot to prevent scouting or adepts. I get luck sometimes and can see their buildings, but never enough to see a pocket expansion. | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6451408 | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On February 04 2016 14:37 Hyper1 wrote: How do you counter proxy 3 rax? Even when I scouted his base and knew it was coming, I couldn't do anything to stop it. http://ggtracker.com/matches/6451408 Don't make Adepts, they can't hit Marines without taking damage themself, but Stalkers can. 2 Gate Stalker + having 2-3 Pylons at the ramp and stalling with Overcharge should give you enough time to have a decent Stalker count. You have to be more careful because of the Overcharge nerf, which is why you should have 2-3 Pylons at your ramp and try to Overcharge as late as you have to in order to stop them killing the last Pylon or just running through. | ||
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Sweetness.751
United States225 Posts
On February 03 2016 00:35 Lordish wrote: I am defending it about 20% of the time and that is only if they don't wait for second tank to come out, i open stargate skip the oracle and make phoenix. Any advice will be welcome You can try going your own 1/1/1. It was proven successful vs the old Terran 1/1/1 when they made Banshees instead of Liberators. Except it would be more like a 3/1/1. 3 gates, 1 Robo, 1 Stargate. Zealots, Immortals, Phoenix. Obviously you would need to know they are not getting an expo, otherwise your units come out a little late. And having a pylon outside of your natural away from the sieged up ramp is very helpful in creating a good surround with the Zealots. The Phoenix can also stop reinforcements. Which is very useful. But the proxy pylon allows you to harass or trade units away from the siege tank.. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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PPN
France248 Posts
I have tried double robo to get lots of collossus or disruptors but they seem to be somewhat outranged by lurkers (I can't seem to attack without taking a few hard hits) and it's hard to hit anything when obs are constantly sniped (is there a trick to keep them alive?) I have tried high templars storm, but hts are definitely too slow and same range issue as disruptor. Is it viable? I am not sure about stargate. Tempests seem like the obvious choice for range, but I'm not confident how fast I am supposed to do them since I probably need another tech to protect them, and army is so slow I'll probably have to deal with some ling runbys (do you keep your MSC at home or take it with you?). Any advice on playing stargate opener when zergs goes hydra and possibly lurkers? Which tech to transition to and timing would help. Also I get often contained by this kind of composition. Am I supposed to go out on the map to try to deal with it before it gets to me? And if yes typically how to approach it? Does it work like siege tanks where I need to poke to force burrow and wait unburrow to attack? Not sure how fast lurkers burrow. Last remark is it me or lurkers actually move faster than most Protoss units? It feels like I'm having a hard time killing them even when they run away. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
http://replays.sc/728/download | ||
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AusProbe
Australia235 Posts
On February 05 2016 08:55 PPN wrote: While I definitely think Zerg is totally imba currently (https://twitter.com/the_ppn/status/693293066325721089), there is no going around playing against Zerg while waiting for a better map pool or a patch. So the most pressing issue for me is how to deal with lurkers covered by an army, I mostly see tons of hydras and some overseer to snipe obs. I'll be asking for some specific aspects but really any general advice would help too. Thanks. I have tried double robo to get lots of collossus or disruptors but they seem to be somewhat outranged by lurkers (I can't seem to attack without taking a few hard hits) and it's hard to hit anything when obs are constantly sniped (is there a trick to keep them alive?) I have tried high templars storm, but hts are definitely too slow and same range issue as disruptor. Is it viable? I am not sure about stargate. Tempests seem like the obvious choice for range, but I'm not confident how fast I am supposed to do them since I probably need another tech to protect them, and army is so slow I'll probably have to deal with some ling runbys (do you keep your MSC at home or take it with you?). Any advice on playing stargate opener when zergs goes hydra and possibly lurkers? Which tech to transition to and timing would help. Also I get often contained by this kind of composition. Am I supposed to go out on the map to try to deal with it before it gets to me? And if yes typically how to approach it? Does it work like siege tanks where I need to poke to force burrow and wait unburrow to attack? Not sure how fast lurkers burrow. Last remark is it me or lurkers actually move faster than most Protoss units? It feels like I'm having a hard time killing them even when they run away. Chargelot immortal phoenix composistions are your friend  No zerg is not imba, but yes they are strong. However I think Protoss is pretty even in the matchup, even on the latest patch. The idea of modern PvZ is to open phoenix to scout, kill drones and to deter a muta switch, and then tech into mass immortal archon chargelot. Phoenix are also used to lift up the lurkers if necessary. You will be surprised how immortals do against lurkers, and in fact every zerg unit. In general, in the midgame you want to get up to double robo and just pump immortals. You probably also want 2 obs minimum, one following your army, and one in your control group. You can also add disruptors or ht to this composition to deal with roach hydra lurker even better. In terms of map movement with this style, you want to be pretty active with your army and a warp prism. This is so that they don't get in the contain positions you talk about. Also remember you don't have to actually engage the zerg army. Try and pull the army back to the main/natural with a warp prism chargelot warp in, and then try and go deny a base or creep etc. | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xpNrZcH.png) | ||
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iMrising
United States1099 Posts
that won't be the only time people call you a noob though. plenty of people higher up rage just as much | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
On February 05 2016 16:28 iMrising wrote: grats hyper1! that won't be the only time people call you a noob though. plenty of people higher up rage just as much | ||
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