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EJK
United States1302 Posts
On May 29 2016 03:59 Elentos wrote: But Snipe is so easy to cancel ._. Does anyone else find themselves not making enough marauders? How many techlabs do you people usually have on your barracks in TvP & TvZ? it has enough range so that its not as hard to learn to use as you might think | ||
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Elentos
55593 Posts
On May 29 2016 04:47 EJK wrote: it has enough range so that its not as hard to learn to use as you might think I'm not saying it's hard to use, I'm saying it has a lot of easier counter play. | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1162 Posts
http://lotv.spawningtool.com/18403/ my opponent plays a very aggressive muta/roach style. I make some obvious mistakes. for example, I narrowly miss the wall-off vs early roach, forgot upgrades after 1-2, miss production cycles, and don't always kite my cyclones perfectly... but I think in the hands of a pro, this style could be lethal. I'll share with you my thoughts on ground mech in LotV: - in general, you can't stage tank-based timing pushes anymore (e.g. 2/2, before hive). vipers are a hard counter and there's nothing you can do about it. the one exception is when zerg transitions from roach/hydra/viper into lurker/viper. lurkers are usually a desperation move when zerg can't afford to switch tech. for example, the mech player denies the 5th/6th bases with drops/multi-pronged attacks. in this scenario, tank/viking can be used to beat lurkers. - tanks are still excellent for defense. behind a planetary, behind turrets, on high ground, sieged in range of chokes, rally points and factories. I think 5-6 tanks is the ideal number (with the exception of banelings). - hellion/cyclone/widow mine has incredible synergy. It's cheap, fast, quick to produce and can beat any zerg composition except for lurkers/brood lords. It can outrun all zerg units except for lings and mutalisks, which get shredded by blue flame and widow mine splash. the only way hellion/cyclone can get "swarmed" is if zerg tries to baneling bust you all game long. I haven't had enough practice against it, but I think heavier tank defense would deal with this. the downside to cyclone/widow mine is that you max out very fast, so you want to be trading often. the upside is the great synergy. overseers drop dead to cyclone lock-on. zerg constantly has to remake overseers if he wants to engage favorably. when you can force zerg to engage without detection, widow mines pay for themselves several times over. hellions are great cannon-fodder and act as body-guards for cyclones. I keep hellions in hellion mode most of the time. I only really transform them to hellbats when I know for sure I'm going to lose them (e.g. defending a push, killing workers, sniping buildings, or trading for a hatchery). - my general strategy is to let zerg be zerg until I have 4 bases. by that time, zerg is heavily relying on 5th and 6th bases. these bases are harder to defend and vulnerable to multi-pronged attacks. this is the time where cyclone/hellion/mine really excels. you can split your army in two to snipe hatcheries, and quickly regroup if zerg launches a full frontal attack. - because hellion/cyclone/widow mine is so cheap, you can afford 8 factories (5 tech-lab, 3 reactor) on 3 fully mining bases. this amount of production allows you to compete with zerg insta-remax in the late-game. the only difference is that your entire army won't get shredded by one ultra cleave like those poor bio players  | ||
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Bobrovsky
9 Posts
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1386 Posts
On May 29 2016 10:40 SHODAN wrote: this is the ground mech style that I've been working on: http://lotv.spawningtool.com/18403/ my opponent plays a very aggressive muta/roach style. I make some obvious mistakes. for example, I narrowly miss the wall-off vs early roach, forgot upgrades after 1-2, miss production cycles, and don't always kite my cyclones perfectly... but I think in the hands of a pro, this style could be lethal. I'll share with you my thoughts on ground mech in LotV: Thanks, will give it a try, looks fun to me | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
On May 29 2016 10:40 SHODAN wrote: this is the ground mech style that I've been working on: http://lotv.spawningtool.com/18403/ my opponent plays a very aggressive muta/roach style. I make some obvious mistakes. for example, I narrowly miss the wall-off vs early roach, forgot upgrades after 1-2, miss production cycles, and don't always kite my cyclones perfectly... but I think in the hands of a pro, this style could be lethal. I'll share with you my thoughts on ground mech in LotV: - in general, you can't stage tank-based timing pushes anymore (e.g. 2/2, before hive). vipers are a hard counter and there's nothing you can do about it. the one exception is when zerg transitions from roach/hydra/viper into lurker/viper. lurkers are usually a desperation move when zerg can't afford to switch tech. for example, the mech player denies the 5th/6th bases with drops/multi-pronged attacks. in this scenario, tank/viking can be used to beat lurkers. - tanks are still excellent for defense. behind a planetary, behind turrets, on high ground, sieged in range of chokes, rally points and factories. I think 5-6 tanks is the ideal number (with the exception of banelings). - hellion/cyclone/widow mine has incredible synergy. It's cheap, fast, quick to produce and can beat any zerg composition except for lurkers/brood lords. It can outrun all zerg units except for lings and mutalisks, which get shredded by blue flame and widow mine splash. the only way hellion/cyclone can get "swarmed" is if zerg tries to baneling bust you all game long. I haven't had enough practice against it, but I think heavier tank defense would deal with this. the downside to cyclone/widow mine is that you max out very fast, so you want to be trading often. the upside is the great synergy. overseers drop dead to cyclone lock-on. zerg constantly has to remake overseers if he wants to engage favorably. when you can force zerg to engage without detection, widow mines pay for themselves several times over. hellions are great cannon-fodder and act as body-guards for cyclones. I keep hellions in hellion mode most of the time. I only really transform them to hellbats when I know for sure I'm going to lose them (e.g. defending a push, killing workers, sniping buildings, or trading for a hatchery). - my general strategy is to let zerg be zerg until I have 4 bases. by that time, zerg is heavily relying on 5th and 6th bases. these bases are harder to defend and vulnerable to multi-pronged attacks. this is the time where cyclone/hellion/mine really excels. you can split your army in two to snipe hatcheries, and quickly regroup if zerg launches a full frontal attack. - because hellion/cyclone/widow mine is so cheap, you can afford 8 factories (5 tech-lab, 3 reactor) on 3 fully mining bases. this amount of production allows you to compete with zerg insta-remax in the late-game. the only difference is that your entire army won't get shredded by one ultra cleave like those poor bio players Intresting mech style. How does this stand up to roach/ravagers pushes? At my level (Diamond) lots of players do roach/ravager pushers soon after Terran takes their third. They are incredibly hard to hold even with mass tanks so I imagine it would not really work with cyclones? Or do you have the cyclones out on the map and kite the whole way back to your base? Also, do you manually use the lockon ability on the cyclones or do you let them lockon themselves? | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1162 Posts
On May 31 2016 23:54 MockHamill wrote: Intresting mech style. How does this stand up to roach/ravagers pushes? At my level (Diamond) lots of players do roach/ravager pushers soon after Terran takes their third. They are incredibly hard to hold even with mass tanks so I imagine it would not really work with cyclones? Or do you have the cyclones out on the map and kite the whole way back to your base? Also, do you manually use the lockon ability on the cyclones or do you let them lockon themselves? I think you hit the nail on the head. you need to slow down roach/ravager and keep zerg pinned back for as long as possible. If you open hellion/banshee, here are the options: - continue banshee production until you see a spire or hydralisk den. banshees can avoid ravager shots and kite a roach/ravager army the whole way across the map. banshees can delay a full-on attack until zerg has mutas, corruptors or hydras. - keep your banshees alive. there is a time and a place to lose your banshees. It is always good to pick off a queen or a few drones, but not if you lose a banshee for it. banshees have incredible utility. for example, killing creep tumors, spotting zerg's tech buildings, denying a fourth base and kiting across the map. - keep an scv with your hellion/cyclone squad while you are out on the map so you can do spot repairs. - factory tech lab upgrades in order of importance vs. roach/ravager are mag-field accelerator, tunneling claws, blue flame. It is better to delay tunneling claws and blue flame in favor of faster 6th-8th factories. - armor upgrades take priority over weapons upgrades. It is better to get one super fast armory than wait for two. cyclones and widow mines do spell damage, so weapons upgrades are less important. we are only using hellions/hellbats to tank, so weapons are less important for them too. armor also really helps when kiting across the map. I usually get my 2nd armory once +2 armor is near completion. I drop the first armory while my 1st banshee is building. again, this cuts a corner so you can get the 6th-8th factories faster. - I keep lock-on set to auto-cast the entire game. the only units I want to focus down are overseers and brood lords. in that case, I move my cyclones on move command and manually cast lock-on before auto-cast can assign a target. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8255 Posts
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On June 01 2016 04:50 geokilla wrote: Been watching a lot of Polt but for regulars like us, how are we supposed to deal with Ultras? Simply put, every TvZ I play it just becomes Ultras into win no matter how many engagements I've won prior to the Zerg reaching Ultralisks. As soon as they get Ultralisks, my chance of winning becomes 0. I know Polt likes to use Ghosts but Snipe takes a long time to cast and mine just dies before I can get a shot off. I have two main ways of dealing with Ultras; first is a small sky transition after 8 gas (3 port 2 reactor 1 tech lab), which is maybe not as powerful with the lib nerf? I typically had / have a mix of viking + liberator + a couple Ravens but not too much of any of it, you want your main M4 army to be pretty big still. Lately I've just been going yolo BioMine and wrecking even ultralisks with it though. In one of my more recent games where I didn't limit my opponent's economy as well as I normally do I actually went up to 3 fact (2 reactor 1 tech lab) and just had so many mines I was able to tear through ultralisks. Each mine shot is about equal to a snipe from a ghost, but you can play a much more multitasking oriented style withuot Ghosts which kinda require your whole army to be together. It's important to have good defense at home with either style though. Even playing pure BioMine I typically get 2-4 libs just for base defense and keep a plantary or two in defensive locations depending on the map. I also almost always have an economy / supply advantage by the time Ultralisks are out so that probably helps too. | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
I played a TvZ today, a rly scrappy one, where i went for a failed stim timing (no medics, only marines and WMs due to messed up BO XD) vs a Roach Queen Nydus play. It turned out that i then were playing Bio/Banshee with some WMs and a few medics, vs Roach Ravager Ling Bling. I was wondering if there is a way to that Bio/Banshee is a viable strategie in master and GM? Problems i see here is the different tech, as well as that you lack quite some things. Banshees are awesome, as they are good vs Ling, Banes, Roaches and Ravager. But spores and queens can handle those quite easily, as well as Muta and corruptor as long as no speed was researched. So instead of having a huge bio ball, you have some bio forces to kite, some banshees to harass the army and maybe some libs for positional play. So basically what i was doing is, wear the enemy down, piece by piece, lots of small engagements and retreats to the libs. The nice part was in my game Zerg wasnt really able to kill the libs because of the banshees. But as i said, it was a rly scrappy game... What do you think? | ||
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geokilla
Canada8255 Posts
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
On June 01 2016 04:50 geokilla wrote: Been watching a lot of Polt but for regulars like us, how are we supposed to deal with Ultras? Simply put, every TvZ I play it just becomes Ultras into win no matter how many engagements I've won prior to the Zerg reaching Ultralisks. As soon as they get Ultralisks, my chance of winning becomes 0. I know Polt likes to use Ghosts but Snipe takes a long time to cast and mine just dies before I can get a shot off. First of all, even if ghost are hard to use, don't let this prevent you from trying cause they are a good unit you need to learn. Second, you only need them vs ultra as a last solution imho, because the transition is not easy and you probably want to have liberators before ghost in most case. Last, the Ultra = auto win whatever happened before is a wrong way to see the issue cause all what happened before ultra really matters (how good is your economy compared to his? where are the upgrades at? armies sizes and comp? and so on). For instance what happened during the ultra transition is key, cause it's a very weak timing of zerg and ideally you want to put a huge pressure on him at this moment, to prevent him to get ultras for free. If you manage to pressure him during that phase, his ultra switch will be much less powerful and liberators should be enough to win, if your marauder count is high enough. Check Cure vs Curious on Lerilak in GSL ro32 to see how it's done. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8255 Posts
On May 29 2016 01:54 geokilla wrote: Where do I go for builds? Haven't played in half a year and I'm getting crushed cus I don't know the opening builds. Been trying to learn from Polt's stream right now. Anyone? I'm still trying to learn some builds. My builds are half the reason why I'm stuck in diamond and haven't improved since HOTS. | ||
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Toudeleski
United States66 Posts
This tournament just happened with two great Terran players and replays provided. | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6674674 | ||
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NexT_SC2
United States117 Posts
how do I defend cannon rush? I was told to make bunkers; marines in bunkers outrange cannons by 1. Idk if this is the best response though. Does anyone have general benchmarks/ mid game guidelines for macro terran play. I like to play defensive 3cc builds like ty does. For example: 3rd cc should come down after rax/ factory, when should stim start, 8 rax for 3 bases (is this the case in lotv?), when should liberators start? I've recently transitioned from hots to lotv so I don't know the timings very well. | ||
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EatingBomber
1017 Posts
On June 06 2016 02:13 NexT_SC2 wrote: I was told to make bunkers; marines in bunkers outrange cannons by 1. Idk if this is the best response though. Does anyone have general benchmarks/ mid game guidelines for macro terran play. I like to play defensive 3cc builds like ty does. For example: 3rd cc should come down after rax/ factory, when should stim start, 8 rax for 3 bases (is this the case in lotv?), when should liberators start? I've recently transitioned from hots to lotv so I don't know the timings very well. Marines in Bunkers have the same range as Cannons: 6. Marines in the open only have 5. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16087 Posts
On June 06 2016 03:15 EatingBomber wrote: Marines in Bunkers have the same range as Cannons: 6. Marines in the open only have 5. cannons have 7 range | ||
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oGoZenob
France1503 Posts
same as photon overcharge btw | ||
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NexT_SC2
United States117 Posts
cannons have 7 range oh...so how do you deal with cannon rush? I haven't played one in so long... | ||
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