EPT[D] Overlord/Queen creep harass - Page 4
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
Incognoto
France10239 Posts
| ||
|
ArcDawn
United States78 Posts
On February 02 2014 04:06 velvex wrote: Just go on the ladder and try this yourself, ArcDawn. Don't expect to convince masters-level players here to pick it up—strategies spread when other people win with them, not because they're backed up with lengthy argumentation. Even if you presented the winning strategies of tomorrow here, people would still be skeptical. Once you play more ZvTs, I think you will be tempted to cut the drop upgrade for more units. But the general idea is good as several people already said. It's just that the drop upgrade cost isn't as insignificant as you make it to be. Yes I do plan to try this on ladder more. However, it wouldn't be harmful to have some higher level players try it and to get some insight. I understand people can be skeptical about it but we all got to try something new sometime right? I'll try my best to get some more replays and vods out, but I'm really shooting for people to give this a shot! (That's what unranked's for  ) | ||
|
ArcDawn
United States78 Posts
On February 02 2014 05:56 Incognoto wrote: It's a cute tactic but I don't know if you can base an entire strategy around it.  we are in the process of discovery | ||
|
velvex
Germany226 Posts
I'm currently in diamond league, so terrible macro and engagements are included. It wasn't a very close game overall, but at least you can see the nice effect where creep stays even without overlords or tumours as long as it is surrounded by creep generators. http://drop.sc/372943 | ||
|
ArcDawn
United States78 Posts
On February 02 2014 07:12 velvex wrote: I just played a ZvT for you where I put a lot of creep at the Terran's fourth, preventing him from taking it. I didn't feel I needed the drop upgrade in any way. I'm currently in diamond league, so terrible macro and engagements are included. It wasn't a very close game overall, but at least you can see the nice effect where creep stays even without overlords or tumours as long as it is surrounded by creep generators. http://drop.sc/372943 Thank you, I will check it soon | ||
|
ArcDawn
United States78 Posts
| ||
|
ArcDawn
United States78 Posts
On February 02 2014 07:12 velvex wrote: I just played a ZvT for you where I put a lot of creep at the Terran's fourth, preventing him from taking it. I didn't feel I needed the drop upgrade in any way. I'm currently in diamond league, so terrible macro and engagements are included. It wasn't a very close game overall, but at least you can see the nice effect where creep stays even without overlords or tumours as long as it is surrounded by creep generators. http://drop.sc/372943 Sorry for the late reply, I had things I had to do. Nice! i feel like you could've even expanded more aggressively. (Pretty much take every single base) For drops tho, I guess it's really a stylistic choice as well. You could probably use dropship ovies to drop banes or do some ultralisk harass in the main. Since he was stuck on 2-3 base, you were able to take a huge lead as well as know where he is. Somethings I'm not sure about is, is T's third late or not? I feel like it would've been possible to actually creep it up before he lands and force scans or something. | ||
|
BootyCatcher
1 Post
| ||
|
velvex
Germany226 Posts
On February 18 2014 03:59 ArcDawn wrote: Somethings I'm not sure about is, is T's third late or not? I feel like it would've been possible to actually creep it up before he lands and force scans or something. The Terran did a bio push before making a third CC. So, yes, the CC was late. It might be possible to annoy him with a creep tumour or two at his third, but then again, that queen would probably be more useful pushing for more creep at home. | ||
|
Doc Brawler
United States260 Posts
| ||
|
KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
Unfortunately for me I'm not sure I have the APM to be doing this whilst keeping up my macro, scouting and mutalisk play. How do you compare this to getting the burrow upgrade and just using OL creep spread with a burrowed ling to deny the expansion? It also gives vision, furthermore burrow is probably more useful throughout the game. | ||
|
ArcDawn
United States78 Posts
On February 19 2014 15:00 KelsierSC wrote: This is a really cool midgame tactic, Unfortunately for me I'm not sure I have the APM to be doing this whilst keeping up my macro, scouting and mutalisk play. How do you compare this to getting the burrow upgrade and just using OL creep spread with a burrowed ling to deny the expansion? It also gives vision, furthermore burrow is probably more useful throughout the game. I dislike using overlord creep spread for bridging purposes on 2 player maps simply because they can be easily picked off. Burrow ling is also cool and can lead to burrow roach attacks. I guess you could do something like 4ling scout into burrow tech to make full use of the early lings. Compared to drop tech, it gives your ground units more mobility. imagine say there's a choke which is really easy to defend as the opponent. You could use drops to bypass or attack elsewhere. Also overlords cost 100 minerals and you can make infinity overlords. Applications in the mid/late game are reasonable. (IE roach/bane drops in the main while split pushing. Or, you know those annoying protoss attacks where they go into the main and ff the ramp? You could drop up to defend or something. Yeah it's a stylistic thing really. Both are great tech pathes imo. | ||
|
ArcDawn
United States78 Posts
On February 19 2014 02:55 Doc Brawler wrote: My girlfriend actually thought of this when I first showed her how to play the game. I'm still convinced she is a SC genius waiting to be unlocked. If you are a player that likes to get ovi speed for scouting this seems like a completely reasonable thing to do once lair is done. She will be in GM soon enough | ||
|
MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On February 18 2014 14:02 BootyCatcher wrote: At first I didn't like the investment, as others have said. However, I started using the Ovies for roach drops. Even if they aren't successful, at least your drop tech gets some more utility. I feel like drops are something more Zergs should try to use in the mid-late game, but that's just me It's not a good reason to get drop in itself, but If you have a reason to get ventral sacs like for roach drops I can't think of a reason you shouldn't do this. | ||
|
ArcDawn
United States78 Posts
On February 21 2014 02:24 MstrJinbo wrote: It's not a good reason to get drop in itself, but If you have a reason to get ventral sacs like for roach drops I can't think of a reason you shouldn't do this. It's very stylistic imo because of the difference in the way classic zerg is played. With this style of playing, it's almost a mix of terran and zerg with the drop harass and you're getting way more mobility and more bases/denying bases as a result. A creeped up base can be delayed for up to 2 minutes! that's significant. And with the vision and mobility, you are able to mass expand. Also, overlords are pretty bulky and don't cost supply. I feel like people should probably try it out and innovate a little bit to see if there's any improvements/adjustments. Try not to think too linearly (like oh if you do this then you can't do this or if this happens then y happens) SC2 is a dynamic game, so in terms of thinking of a strategy, one should consider all possibilities and come up with arguments/counterarguments. This is how we get creative/fun to watch plays | ||
|
MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On February 21 2014 06:46 ArcDawn wrote: It's very stylistic imo because of the difference in the way classic zerg is played. With this style of playing, it's almost a mix of terran and zerg with the drop harass and you're getting way more mobility and more bases/denying bases as a result. A creeped up base can be delayed for up to 2 minutes! that's significant. And with the vision and mobility, you are able to mass expand. Also, overlords are pretty bulky and don't cost supply. I feel like people should probably try it out and innovate a little bit to see if there's any improvements/adjustments. Try not to think too linearly (like oh if you do this then you can't do this or if this happens then y happens) SC2 is a dynamic game, so in terms of thinking of a strategy, one should consider all possibilities and come up with arguments/counterarguments. This is how we get creative/fun to watch plays I think you are misunderstanding my point. You go for drop, it's ready around 10-11 min. You know what else happens at that time? Terrans and Protosses like to attack at 10-11 minutes. So you are investing 300/300 on something not designed to keep you from dying but to gunk up a 4th they might or might not be taking. If you walk a queen to the fourth and have a overlord poop creep you can do the same thing quicker and the queen can walk back and rejoin your army. If you want to incorporate drop then you need to find other purposes to justify the expense. | ||
|
ArcDawn
United States78 Posts
On February 21 2014 08:54 MstrJinbo wrote: I think you are misunderstanding my point. You go for drop, it's ready around 10-11 min. You know what else happens at that time? Terrans and Protosses like to attack at 10-11 minutes. So you are investing 300/300 on something not designed to keep you from dying but to gunk up a 4th they might or might not be taking. If you walk a queen to the fourth and have a overlord poop creep you can do the same thing quicker and the queen can walk back and rejoin your army. If you want to incorporate drop then you need to find other purposes to justify the expense. Your point is made but tactics revolving around overdrops can be used too for defense ofc. Example: the baneling drop. A more cost effective way to use your banes during an attack. (Due to the ability to not get blocked by lings.) Provide a flank from two sides (the proper way to engage) and drop them on the bio. Also, vs protoss, having drop tech specifically isn't a 100% counter to their plans. However, you are weighing the investment cost wayy too high. 300/300 isn't as much as it seems for a tech that lasts for the rest of the game. (Think if you only had to spend 300/300 + 100x for infinite dropships.) You will, 100% guarentee, have enough money to make units to defend any 10 minute attack I assure you. especially with the adjustments to the build I made. Also getting a surround is usually a good idea so you could use drops to drop roaches to surround or something akin to that. (w/ ground army support to help confuse his army) Overdrops can be used offensively and defensively. The queen can't simply walk back, there isn't enough time. Think about it for a sec, if you play on a 2 player map and your queen is all the way over on the other side, there is terrain hindering the return as well as easy pathes to get sniped off. Also, the bigger the map, the further you have to walk your queen through ungodly long long long terrain. ALSO big note, you have to consistantly creep that whole length of train of overlords or else walking back will not make it. If you get found out, your queens and your overlords pretty much die. | ||
| ||
