hmm ok I suppose. as of late ive been struggling against early helions from kr diamond players. try and get surrounds and ect but their control is always good enough to get the better engagement. maybe just work on my micro again.

THAmarx

65 Posts

November 27 2013 14:15 GMT

#224

do you still get a roach warren defensivly ? To be honest i only make it reactionary when spotting hellbats/blueflame or when i want to do a roach bane all in. I feel like a baneling nest can deal with the rest of the agression terran put up with.
It's only hard to deal with banshee hellion marine agression. But some extra queens fill the gap untill mutas come out and chase it away.

blade55555

United States17423 Posts

November 29 2013 20:04 GMT

#225

On November 27 2013 23:15 THAmarx wrote:
do you still get a roach warren defensivly ? To be honest i only make it reactionary when spotting hellbats/blueflame or when i want to do a roach bane all in. I feel like a baneling nest can deal with the rest of the agression terran put up with.
It's only hard to deal with banshee hellion marine agression. But some extra queens fill the gap untill mutas come out and chase it away.

Yeah I do get it defensively. Is it a must? No, it all goes down to preference and I just prefer it unless I see my opponent is not doing hellions or something.

Solanek

Romania7 Posts

December 04 2013 10:58 GMT

#226

Blade can you pls addj to this guide OL PLACEMENT for this sesons maps? Some photo with marks on them for Ol

THAmarx

65 Posts

December 04 2013 11:53 GMT

#227

On November 30 2013 05:04 blade55555 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yeah I do get it defensively. Is it a must? No, it all goes down to preference and I just prefer it unless I see my opponent is not doing hellions or something.

me with my big mouth... after i posted this i got hellbat pushed 3 times in a row. Roach warren would been helpfull ^^

TAMinator

Australia2706 Posts

December 04 2013 13:22 GMT

#228

On December 04 2013 19:58 Solanek wrote:
Blade can you pls addj to this guide OL PLACEMENT for this sesons maps? Some photo with marks on them for Ol

I like this diea. Also, when each OL should be there for 2 player maps

SC2Toastie

Netherlands5725 Posts

December 04 2013 15:58 GMT

#229

It does depend a lot on variables....
Do you drone scout? How afraid are you of vikings/phoenix, what do you want the overlord to do, what is the general playstyle of your opponent, locations on the map, opponents opening, opportunity costs of having overlords in scouting position as opposed to defensive, etc.

Furthermore, any kind of dead space on the map OR unaccessible/hard to get vision of high-ground is a suitable location.

Deleted User 261926

960 Posts

December 04 2013 18:12 GMT

#230

Hey Blade, great guide there.
I am a bit lost in ZvZ now (EU mid master) and the match up is holding me back a lot. Which of the styles you mentioned do you think will work out the most in ladder? I just need a style to focus on in order to improve with that and general ZvZ mechanics.

blade55555

United States17423 Posts

December 07 2013 18:13 GMT

#231

On December 05 2013 03:12 Karpfen wrote:
Hey Blade, great guide there.
I am a bit lost in ZvZ now (EU mid master) and the match up is holding me back a lot. Which of the styles you mentioned do you think will work out the most in ladder? I just need a style to focus on in order to improve with that and general ZvZ mechanics.

Right now mutalisks are the most common on the ladder for sure. Most of my zvz's are muta wars.

THAmarx

65 Posts

December 11 2013 12:49 GMT

#232

hey blade,
I am watching a lot of gm streams.
I noticed a lot of gm open muta in tvz. They go instead of fast upgrades for a spire and make around 10 mutas.
Getting map control over the hellion reaper / sometimes banshee. And then getting upgrades more bases and stuff.
Is this a style you would recommend?

edit: when i asked the gm when he would do this he replied, only if they opened reaper.

blade55555

United States17423 Posts

December 11 2013 13:30 GMT

#233

On December 11 2013 21:49 THAmarx wrote:
hey blade,
I am watching a lot of gm streams.
I noticed a lot of gm open muta in tvz. They go instead of fast upgrades for a spire and make around 10 mutas.
Getting map control over the hellion reaper / sometimes banshee. And then getting upgrades more bases and stuff.
Is this a style you would recommend?

edit: when i asked the gm when he would do this he replied, only if they opened reaper.

Um like fast 2 base muta? Opening muta is very common zvt but if it's 2 base muta it can be risky doing it but it can also be very good as well.

THAmarx

65 Posts

December 11 2013 14:39 GMT

#234

On December 11 2013 22:30 blade55555 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Um like fast 2 base muta? Opening muta is very common zvt but if it's 2 base muta it can be risky doing it but it can also be very good as well.

i would like to do the standard opener version. I like to have mapcontrol vs the reaper hellion and doing some presure forcing them to invest in missleturrets. My only problem is i dont know the optimal timings.

zerge

Germany162 Posts

December 11 2013 17:54 GMT

#235

Standard opener is a 3rd around 6 minutes but you will have to make speedlings to defend against hellion reaper with that. If you want to push back the terran with mutas only you have to stay on 2 base. In any case you should start your lair at 100 gas and add 3 more gases imidiatly, you will have enaugh gas for 10 mutas when the spire finishes. For 2 base muta the earliest lair can start at 5:00 before that you hurt your mineral income too much. It is up to you how greedy you are going to be (skipping ling speed, late spine crawler, no 3rd queen). I personally dont like the risk/reward of 2 base muta but i'm just a low master scrub who likey theorycrafting so feel free to coppy the pros, i have seen scarlett do it and she is very good.
If you want to go for the more standard 3 base opener and just skip the upgrades get your lair at 6:30. You will need speedlings to defend the early harass but you will have mutas earlier than most terrans expect it.

blade55555

United States17423 Posts

December 12 2013 01:30 GMT

#236

On December 11 2013 23:39 THAmarx wrote:

Show nested quote +

the OP has a standard zvt muta build that I still do today and most zergs do some sort of variation of it.

straycat

230 Posts

December 13 2013 13:07 GMT

#237

ZvT vs reaper into cc. When do I take gas 3,4,5,6?
I'm so gas starved always TT

weikor

Austria580 Posts

December 13 2013 13:59 GMT

#238

A really cool guide giving players a solid base to reach the next league. i especially like the gameshow feeling at the end.

Ding Ding Ding
the guide is finished - but wait theres more,
whats that? a BONUS ALL in vs protoss?? order one solid game plan vs Aiur get one free!

blade55555

United States17423 Posts

December 14 2013 01:19 GMT

#239

On December 13 2013 22:07 straycat wrote:
ZvT vs reaper into cc. When do I take gas 3,4,5,6?
I'm so gas starved always TT

Hm a good timing is when you have 2 bases to start gas 3/4 (or when you start lair), I get my 5th/6th gas as my 3rd is about to be saturated.

roym899

Germany426 Posts

December 14 2013 14:17 GMT

#240

I have a question regarding ZvZ. I actually kinda like the matchup when muta/ling vs muta/ling. But I'm a bit lost currently now that there are a lot more players going for some kind of 2 base roach timing where they get +1/+1 quite early and can push out vs my mutas which won't arrive in time to defend. Is it even possible to defend these timings going muta? Or should I get a roach warren myself once I scout very early double evolution chambers?