• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:29
CEST 08:29
KST 15:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash8[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy13ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple5Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research6Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool49Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win4
StarCraft 2
General
Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 519 Inner Power The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Build Order Practice Maps [ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pros React To: SoulKey vs Ample
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group E [ASL21] Ro24 Group F 🌍 Weekly Foreign Showmatches [ASL21] Ro24 Group B
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3804 users

A Second Overview of HotS Zerg - Page 11

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
281 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 15 Next All
Solanek
Profile Joined September 2013
Romania7 Posts
November 19 2013 11:15 GMT
#201
HB BLADE!!!
Me life for AIUR!
THAmarx
Profile Joined December 2010
65 Posts
November 20 2013 12:37 GMT
#202
happy birthday blade,

Ik have a question for zvt..
what usually happens is that terran is going for a reaper opening into hellion. Then the common options are =>
-fast cc with rax into bio mine push
-fast starport with cloaked banshee harras
-fast starport and raxs for a fast double drop with stimmed marines.
depending on this i will have to react differently... so i have to know this.
Can is send my first overlord that checked the nat into his main to have this information and get out... or how are you getting this information? Or maby don't you need it and you see it a different way.

thx in advance
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
November 20 2013 13:34 GMT
#203
On November 20 2013 21:37 THAmarx wrote:
happy birthday blade,

Ik have a question for zvt..
what usually happens is that terran is going for a reaper opening into hellion. Then the common options are =>
-fast cc with rax into bio mine push
-fast starport with cloaked banshee harras
-fast starport and raxs for a fast double drop with stimmed marines.
depending on this i will have to react differently... so i have to know this.
Can is send my first overlord that checked the nat into his main to have this information and get out... or how are you getting this information? Or maby don't you need it and you see it a different way.

thx in advance


I sacrifice an overlord at 6-6:15 through the main (and have the natural overlord take a little peak in natural). If I don't see anything I pay attention to his hellion timing and how many. His hellion count can give away if he's going into banshee/hellion or not. Also with how popular it is seeing if he 3 CC's is another thing to look out for.

If you don't see anything at all I am throwing down 1 spore at least and if I see a banshee throw down another 2, 1 at each base.
When I think of something else, something will go here
blarkh
Profile Joined December 2011
Austria72 Posts
November 20 2013 13:57 GMT
#204
Happy birthday!

Do you have any thoughts yet on tanks in zvt? I don't know whether they have become a LOT stronger, but people are certainly doing tank marine a lot more often and I had trouble with that in WoL already, without the Infestor nerf. So what do you do against that?
Lobotomist
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1541 Posts
November 20 2013 20:21 GMT
#205
Blade, what are your thoughts on muta/corruptor in zvp? I watched the day 9 daily you linked in the OP, which made the style seem very strong. However, the build it was used against is very specific (1 Phoenix into voidray with fast 3rd into 2 more stargates into templar). Soulkey skipped the hydra den entirely (and the roach warren I believe) which you couldn't do unless you had a very good read on his gateway count. Also, its not uncommon (from what I've seen) for toss to build 4+ Phoenix instead of transitioning directly into voidray, at which point you probably don't want to go directly for muta. How viable are muta/corruptor compositions in the mid game when faced with situations other than the one the OP shows?
Teching to hive too quickly isn't just a risk: it's an ultrarisk
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
November 22 2013 01:08 GMT
#206
On November 20 2013 22:57 blarkh wrote:
Happy birthday!

Do you have any thoughts yet on tanks in zvt? I don't know whether they have become a LOT stronger, but people are certainly doing tank marine a lot more often and I had trouble with that in WoL already, without the Infestor nerf. So what do you do against that?


Not sure I rarely faced tanks before in hots so I never knew how weak/good they are in general. I know people say they were bad, not sure though since I never played it hehe. But I would do ling/bane/muta with flanking and it works well against tanks. Also engaging when they aren't sieged is a plus if possible.

On November 21 2013 05:21 Lobotomist wrote:
Blade, what are your thoughts on muta/corruptor in zvp? I watched the day 9 daily you linked in the OP, which made the style seem very strong. However, the build it was used against is very specific (1 Phoenix into voidray with fast 3rd into 2 more stargates into templar). Soulkey skipped the hydra den entirely (and the roach warren I believe) which you couldn't do unless you had a very good read on his gateway count. Also, its not uncommon (from what I've seen) for toss to build 4+ Phoenix instead of transitioning directly into voidray, at which point you probably don't want to go directly for muta. How viable are muta/corruptor compositions in the mid game when faced with situations other than the one the OP shows?


It's a strong style, I would never do it versus a player going heavy air though (3 stargates constantly pumping for example). I would do it against a phoenix if they only make 4-5 and I can kill some of them (or all of them).

It's a very viable strategy, but does require control and all that fun stuff.
When I think of something else, something will go here
blarkh
Profile Joined December 2011
Austria72 Posts
November 22 2013 13:45 GMT
#207
Fair enough. What about mech with the tank buff though? I feel like SH are pretty useless against 5 or more tanks now.
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
November 22 2013 13:51 GMT
#208
On November 22 2013 22:45 blarkh wrote:
Fair enough. What about mech with the tank buff though? I feel like SH are pretty useless against 5 or more tanks now.

"now" ahah. Pretty no relevant change.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
November 22 2013 17:02 GMT
#209
On November 22 2013 22:45 blarkh wrote:
Fair enough. What about mech with the tank buff though? I feel like SH are pretty useless against 5 or more tanks now.


Um it's always been that way with sh vs tank, the tank buff didn't change anything with it. SH is still the best way to play vs mech and getting vipers hydra/roach/ling, muta switch or bl/corr if you want are all strong versus mech. Vipers are what make mech not so broken, if it weren't for vipers zvt mech would probably be terran favored.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Marcinko
Profile Joined May 2013
South Africa1014 Posts
November 22 2013 18:12 GMT
#210
Hey Blade.
I finally got around to reading your guide and I say thank you. A 5 game losing streak made me decide I need help

On your ZvZ section you made a small typo


• Roach speed ASAP<
• +2 as soon as +1 is done; add tech of choice at the same time (infestors/hydralisks are most common)/ul>

Cheers.
....
RaiZ
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
2813 Posts
November 22 2013 19:22 GMT
#211
On November 23 2013 02:02 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 22:45 blarkh wrote:
Fair enough. What about mech with the tank buff though? I feel like SH are pretty useless against 5 or more tanks now.


Um it's always been that way with sh vs tank, the tank buff didn't change anything with it. SH is still the best way to play vs mech and getting vipers hydra/roach/ling, muta switch or bl/corr if you want are all strong versus mech. Vipers are what make mech not so broken, if it weren't for vipers zvt mech would probably be terran favored.

I'd even dare to say that Viper are actually Imbalanced vs mech... >_<
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Oscar Wilde
Slapsticks
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada21 Posts
November 22 2013 22:37 GMT
#212
Little bit confused about the Zergling/Baneling/Mutalisk/Swarm Host Build.

If I decide to build a 15 hatch, when do I build my pool? Likewise, if I go for a 15 pool, when should my hatch go down?
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
November 23 2013 03:32 GMT
#213
On November 23 2013 07:37 Slapsticks wrote:
Little bit confused about the Zergling/Baneling/Mutalisk/Swarm Host Build.

If I decide to build a 15 hatch, when do I build my pool? Likewise, if I go for a 15 pool, when should my hatch go down?


Should be in the builds but same time, 15 hatch 16 pool (or 3 hatch before pool). Imo you should never 15 pool versus terran, but if you ever 15 pool either 15 hatch or 16 hatch.
When I think of something else, something will go here
CutTheEnemy
Profile Joined November 2013
Canada373 Posts
November 25 2013 08:52 GMT
#214
Any chance of updated replays since the patch? It takes forever to watch old replays every time they friggin patch the game...
Can we help spread the word and create pressure to get Rob Pardo to replace Browder as head of Sc2? Pardo led the team for broodwar, frozen throne, and wow/BC. We need to make this a thing before LotV development starts. Think about it.
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
November 25 2013 11:38 GMT
#215
On November 25 2013 17:52 CutTheEnemy wrote:
Any chance of updated replays since the patch? It takes forever to watch old replays every time they friggin patch the game...


Would love this too But I think as Blade already said, focusing on a few players (Jaedong for ZvP for example) is a good idea as well!
Moonsalt
Profile Joined May 2011
267 Posts
November 25 2013 14:18 GMT
#216
this guide is simply just awesome

PS: I love the build orders and explanations
seupac
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada148 Posts
November 26 2013 22:11 GMT
#217
excellent guide as usual, good to brush up on my "standard" lair and gas timings for each matchup to get some refined builds going - its amazing what a difference the smallest adjustments can make in your play. my gas timings were a tiny bit off for the standard muta macro zvz and my winrate was awful, but that one small adjustment made the matchup my second strongest.

one thing i notice in the muta zvz build is that you take +1 air for it - is that under the assumption that your opponent isnt going muta? i just ran 10 mutas with +1 air versus 10 mutas with +1 carapace in the unit tester to be sure and carapace upgrades seem to scale extremely well especially at low numbers. should we be taking +1 carapace if we scout spire?
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
November 26 2013 22:59 GMT
#218
Yes carapace first in muta wars.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Calarague
Profile Joined November 2013
France33 Posts
November 27 2013 08:41 GMT
#219
Thank you very much for your investment and the replays. Extremely useful.
**** MKP TLO ♥
A_Scarecrow
Profile Joined March 2013
Australia721 Posts
November 27 2013 11:24 GMT
#220
should you build roach warren earlier if terran goes for fast helions/blueflame all in?
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 15 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 31m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5657
Horang2 1849
Zeus 643
Tasteless 199
Dewaltoss 131
Backho 112
sSak 32
Noble 25
ToSsGirL 18
Shinee 17
[ Show more ]
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
soO 11
Icarus 9
Terrorterran 8
Dota 2
monkeys_forever675
XcaliburYe7
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K706
oskar19
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0293
Other Games
summit1g9525
WinterStarcraft385
PiGStarcraft183
RuFF_SC273
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick660
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1436
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 31m
Afreeca Starleague
3h 31m
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
Kung Fu Cup
4h 31m
Replay Cast
17h 31m
The PondCast
1d 3h
OSC
1d 17h
RSL Revival
2 days
TriGGeR vs Cure
ByuN vs Rogue
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Maru vs MaxPax
BSL
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
WardiTV Winter 2026
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W1
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.