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On June 08 2013 03:53 Mefaso wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 14:17 TheRabidDeer wrote:
What is a general response for late game ZvT? It feels like everything Zerg has right now is oriented towards winning in the midgame because once you get to late game you have 0 mobility with ultras or broods and just die to drop play, especially since the 4th/5th bases are usually exposed so that they can drop away from spores. Late game composition: Ling/bane/ultra/infestor Drop play: static defense, in the really late game 1 spore 3 spine and position your army so that you can defend your bases, and put a thought into where you expand.
Yea and spread creep and overlords everywhere so u can fungal overtop of spores, or kill drops with mutas, or have some lings under the drop when it arrives.
Since we know drop play is so powerful as terran gets 2/2 and 3/3, we must prepare for it with lots of static D and awareness of where drops can be.
Im pretty aggro with my army so I overmake static D like 8 spines at 4th and 5th type of stuff.
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On June 07 2013 14:17 TheRabidDeer wrote:
What is a general response for late game ZvT? It feels like everything Zerg has right now is oriented towards winning in the midgame because once you get to late game you have 0 mobility with ultras or broods and just die to drop play, especially since the 4th/5th bases are usually exposed so that they can drop away from spores.
Infestors - any comp worth its salt has infestors in it late game.
Corruptors and a greater spire for the option to morph broods - Don't morph them until he's stuck back in his base and you want to kill him but you don't want to sacrifice all your ultras trying to do it. Or if he has to many mines. Corruptors kill medivacs.
Ultras - They kill stuff. Try not to lose them. Don't let them tank for you. Ya they have a lot of health but it's better if you're losing zerglings.
Zerglings - They tank for you. If he's not attacking your zerglings or all your zerglings are dead you should probably retreat.
Banelings - They kill marines. Don't let marines tank your ultras. Ultras trying to kill spread out marines with marauders behind them don't live long.
If he's massing marauder/mine and you can't make broodlords for whatever reason hydras can work too.
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What is the build order for? --- zvt 1 1 speed roach timing. No banes. don't know if its on 2 or 3 bases.
Also what is an OP thread?
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http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/50317
Hi! I was wondering if ya'll could help me with how to fix what I did wrong.
I initially scouted two rax from T and thought it'd be quick cleanup when it hit. It turned out that it wasn't and I wasted a bunch of larva. I tried to tech up and take an expansion since I didn't think he'd hit again for a while, but when he did, I was totally unprepared. My worker count was at 60, but I don't understand why I couldn't dedicate more resources to units. After that, I took a VERY bad engagement at his natural ramp and then lost.
My losses aren't exactly like this in TvZ directly, but I have trouble being able to stably make units or works and reconcile my tech path. I'll end up with drones and mutas or ling/bling muta, but no drones or early game, when I use roaches, I'll have enough for the initial 5 or 6 to defend hellions, but for 9/10 minute timings, I generally don't have nearly enough.
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ive gotten to where i feel that muta isnt nearly as viable in zvz.
but whenever i try to go roach, the muta always pins me in my base and i lose all mapcontrol. how can i combat this? what is the common way to transition to roach in the early game?
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Having a bit of a hard time in zvz. High master, and at something like 42% winrate - with 65% and 62% zvp and zvt respectively.
I always open with 15P 16H 16G, then go into 1/1 lings into mutas.
However I've been getting rolled by things like mass ling bling all ins, which are terribly hard to deal with when you barely have any gas due to upgrades. Also - what's the meta like, with roaches nowadays? I've seen a lot of pro players go roaches again. I know it sounds weird coming from a high master, but could anyone explain the meta nowadays? I've been going mass or upgrades lings in mass muta for so long, or into quick ultra if he's going roach-hydra, I don't even know what to do anymore.
Thanks a lot!
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How do you fight a terran that constantly pressures with mines and MM? I can clean up the first few waves with lings/banelings and some mutas but if I slip up once I'm dead.
The most common point of defeat is when the terran forgets a few mines in an area where a previous fight took place. I mean it's really freaking hard to register every single spot the terran dropped the mines, and it's even harder vs a "bad" opponent who randomly deploys mines and forgets about them.
How do you deal with mines in a way that is even remotely close to the (extremely low) level required to use them?
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you can see where mines are burrowed. that area is a little darker and pretty easy to spot offcreep.
never take fights without 2-3 overseers so you can kill the mines afterwards! mines absolutely need to die or they'll just get too cost efficient and if they have a large enough mine count it gets pretty stupid.
also: if they have a lot of mines burrowed close together banelings are really good at dealing with them.
takes 3 blings to kill a mine.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
Is there a way to remove that crazy custom gunfire animation the marines have. It is a real pain , gives me a headache and I can't see anything in the battle.
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Anyone has some tips against against raven/viking/bc? Should I just stop building ground units and mass corruptors?
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It seems that the initial roaches that are made to stop hellions help a great deal against potential hellbat drops, early all-ins and even mid-game engagements. Do you think having 10-14 for buffer could tip the scales in the midgame to late before ultras are out? Meat shields efficient before max army when their supply cost doesn't justify them being out anymore.
Terrans can afford to drop in multiple places at once because their engagements and units are cost efficient. Maybe if roaches help make the terran trades less cost efficient, the amount of drops would be lowered too.
Dealing with drops would still be fast as the main army is still ling/bling/muta.
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What timing should the ZvT hatchery tech roach bling hit with 3th base and how much stuff should you have?
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Anyone here uses banelings regularly vs protoss? Any tips?
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On June 09 2013 20:17 SacredCoconut wrote:
What timing should the ZvT hatchery tech roach bling hit with 3th base and how much stuff should you have?
about 10-11 minutes is a good timing cause then his production is just starting to kick off and he doesn't have too much.
you should get like 15-20 roaches (1 production cycle as many as you can afford mineralwise) and then follow up with pure lings after. gather your stuff outside his nat and morph as many blings as you can afford. then go in and try to kill him. don't miss injects, make pure lings at home.
how much stuff differs from game to game but you should have somewhere between 150-170 or so supply usually. the important thing is to kill him just as his production starts going.
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On June 09 2013 11:36 hearters wrote:
Anyone has some tips against against raven/viking/bc? Should I just stop building ground units and mass corruptors?
don't let him get there. you don't stand much of a chance if he gets that army up.
your best chance if he does is probably to keep denying bases with lings and 1-2 ultra, have LOTS of spores corruptors and viper infestor (fungal ravens, try to neural HSM/yamato, IT don't get effected by PDD) and try to somehow kill enough of his stuff to be able to kill him off with a corruptor remax maybe.
try to micro corruptors that are targeted by HSM into his army.
but it's on him to mess up honestly.
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What does everyone do in zvz nowadays? Im in plat and it seems that everyone just goes speedling all-in and then games over -_- I was thinking of getting baneling nest first before speed but thatll eventually mean I have no lings to defend anymore once the banes are dead since I already morphed my initial lings into banes.
And it's so hard to tell if someone is going to all-in you since they can hide their lings anywhere and then iust attack out of no where. I've resorted to speedling allins too and everyone I've encountered goes this route -_-
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(Mid Masters, ZvT Bio)
Lately I've been playing going roach & starting melee upgrades around 7:00-7:30. I'll transition into ultras. It's been going really well, but my only problem is the games seem to go on forever. I know it's partly because my build is to stretch the game out to the end & catch them off guard, but my question is there a simpler way to deal with drops than muta/corruptor? I don't want to go that as I've had them switch to thor in some games.
Would just spines/spores be fine or is that too big of an investment? What time should I be putting down a decent amount? What time? I don't want to do it too early. I play greedy to get to 3/3 ultra as fast as possible.
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Hey I was facing a Void Ray army out in the open. I decided to a-move my army consisting of Queens, Ultras, Lings and Overseers. The Queens would stay and fight the Void Rays while the rest of the army marched towards the opponents expansion. However when I transfused my Queens the rest of the army would move back to join them in the fight against the Void Rays, even though there were nothing the anti-ground army could do there. Why does this happen?
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On June 10 2013 19:45 Durmaz21 wrote:
Hey I was facing a Void Ray army out in the open. I decided to a-move my army consisting of Queens, Ultras, Lings and Overseers. The Queens would stay and fight the Void Rays while the rest of the army marched towards the opponents expansion. However when I transfused my Queens the rest of the army would move back to join them in the fight against the Void Rays, even though there were nothing the anti-ground army could do there. Why does this happen?
Not sure why. Next time, when transfusing, have only your queens selected
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On June 10 2013 07:44 learning88 wrote:
What does everyone do in zvz nowadays? Im in plat and it seems that everyone just goes speedling all-in and then games over -_- I was thinking of getting baneling nest first before speed but thatll eventually mean I have no lings to defend anymore once the banes are dead since I already morphed my initial lings into banes.
And it's so hard to tell if someone is going to all-in you since they can hide their lings anywhere and then iust attack out of no where. I've resorted to speedling allins too and everyone I've encountered goes this route -_-
Vs Zerg, there are 3 key structures in the dead early game openers. They are: gas geyser, hatch and pool. I like going 15 pool 16 gas and 15 hatch, but there are so many variants. I'm not sure when this exactly is, but you should get you geyser go you get 150 gas (bane nest) around 5:00-5:10. When it finishes, make a few defensive banelings and, if they keep attacking, add on spines, get more banelings and if they NEVER stop ling baneling, making a ton of mutas into roaches or a flood of roaches can save your day.
On June 09 2013 01:05 Henk wrote:
Having a bit of a hard time in zvz. High master, and at something like 42% winrate - with 65% and 62% zvp and zvt respectively.
I always open with 15P 16H 16G, then go into 1/1 lings into mutas.
However I've been getting rolled by things like mass ling bling all ins, which are terribly hard to deal with when you barely have any gas due to upgrades. Also - what's the meta like, with roaches nowadays? I've seen a lot of pro players go roaches again. I know it sounds weird coming from a high master, but could anyone explain the meta nowadays? I've been going mass or upgrades lings in mass muta for so long, or into quick ultra if he's going roach-hydra, I don't even know what to do anymore.
Thanks a lot!
1/1 gets countered by early ling/bane Aggresion. Don't do this much anymore; it's mainly good vs mass muta, and that fell out of favor. Try not going 1/1; once you can hold off all ins without this lack of resources from the upgrades, go back to doing it.
A roach flood to transition from ling bane into roaches is always different. I usually do it when I'm taking my third, up against a 1/1 long attack etc etc.
You need to feel and learn when to roach transition.
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EPT
