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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
On December 15 2014 17:08 Moosegills wrote: Just the broodlord change (they can't be pulled). "mass broodlord" will beat "mass sh" ah, yes, I know this one, but I don't want to go "mass sh", just enough to hold various pushes and then transition into broodlords I thought it'd be safer this way, I'm guessing I was wrong? | ||
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Moosegills
United States558 Posts
On December 15 2014 17:13 Alchemik wrote: ah, yes, I know this one, but I don't want to go "mass sh", just enough to hold various pushes and then transition into broodlords I thought it'd be safer this way, I'm guessing I was wrong? You can get baneling speed to be safe from roach/hydra pushes otherwise you will have broodlords in time for roach/hydra/infestor pushes | ||
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BrutalPotato
6 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
I'm not talking about a timing, like GGzerG assumed. There's a mid-lategame style in ZvZ where you add baneling speed and a good number of banelings to have an advantage in the maxed vs maxed army (Banelings are very supply efficient and deal extremely high burst damage). It's usually used vs Roaches, but as Banelings 2-shot Locust, the banelings can be used to essentially remove a wave of Locust, leaving one Zerg without about 20 supply of Banelings, but the other with a TON of useless Swarmhost for a 50 second window. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On December 15 2014 18:54 BrutalPotato wrote: How do you tell if a Protoss is going forge fast expand or nex first? I always see the pylon at the nat but then I don't really know which he's going to build after that. You keep your drone or overlord over his natural. He cannot do anything without you seeing it. If the Forge isn't down when he is at 13 supply, you can get the hatch first off. If he goes Nexus first, add the third hatch. If he adds a forge, add a Spawning pool. If he delays the forge too long, you can easily get away with the hatchery first. His cannon rush will be too late and you'll have plenty of time to defeat it, as you are aware the second the forge goes down. At least, that is how I usually solve this. I don't know if there are better Zerg around that'll prove me wrong. In lower masters, this works  | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On December 15 2014 19:22 SC2Toastie wrote: You keep your drone or overlord over his natural. He cannot do anything without you seeing it. If the Forge isn't down when he is at 13 supply, you can get the hatch first off. If he goes Nexus first, add the third hatch. If he adds a forge, add a Spawning pool. If he delays the forge too long, you can easily get away with the hatchery first. His cannon rush will be too late and you'll have plenty of time to defeat it, as you are aware the second the forge goes down. At least, that is how I usually solve this. I don't know if there are better Zerg around that'll prove me wrong. In lower masters, this works This works just fine bro. I have played around with Pool vs Hatch first a lot. You can hit the same bench marks going pool first. This is because you will be limited by larve production. So I just goo pool first every game vs protoss now. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On December 15 2014 02:11 minze wrote: Hey guys, I know this has asked before but it's a common problem. How do you correctly approach a turtling mech terran? Everytime I play vs a mech terran I lose. Every Single Time. He get's 3-4 bases and very strong units and it feels like there is nothing I can do about it. A bio terran I can can harrass with lings or banes or mutas. A mech player I can't harrass. I can't do anything to slow him down. When he finally moves out, my roach hydra, viper army always get's crushed. I'm not even close the majority of the times. Blinding cloud does something, but it's so damn hard to micro the expensive vipers and keep them alive. It has to be an easier way? Some tricks? What is the right army composition to deal with thors, tanks and hellbats? What is the right army composition when he transitions to air? What can I do to slow the terran down? It feels so hopeless not having the slightest clue how to beat mech terran. It's such a physically and mentally exhausting style to play against, and I never have the reward of winning. It's so different from all the other match ups and styles, which I do enjoy. I like doing a 1 1 speed roach timing, with burrow, to delay the terran's third. Maybe even kill them if they were greedy. This will also counter the Banshee hell bat timing, assuming you grab all of your queens, and make an overseer asap. Then I will transition into muta ling bling roach. Which will force them to stay on 3 bases for a long time. I will use muta to find holes in their defense. Forcing them to spend money on static defences. Meanwhile, your whole goal is to prevent the terran from getting a 4th base. Only fully engage them if they try to do a 2-3 base timing vs you, OR if they try to take a 4th. Also, I like to delay my hive tech a bit. Instead, I will take Every base on the map, while banking my money/maxing. Then Ill tech to hive, and just wait. Vs mech, it is all about starving the terran out. You can not force the terran to enage with you, like bio. Get some popcorn, and a drink, and relax. After you trade with the terran. with your roach, muta ling bane army. You have several choices when remaxing. stay with the same comp. Go BL roach ling bling. BL infestor ling bling. BL viper, ultra tech. You need to see what the terran is making, and make their counters. At this stage, Terran is usually not full air yet. They will have some Vikings, maybe a raven or 2. Unless you are playing avilo or ruff. I like to go BL into ultra. and keep switching | ||
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Wildbuddha
37 Posts
On December 13 2014 04:33 fethers wrote: Gold Zerg, and I always do a gassless opening 15p 15h, 4 queens, dbl gas at 5 minute, get 1/1 and get roaches. This used to work really well until the season. I'm losing a lot to ling floods that hit before I have a wall up. Is is the map pool? Has the meta passed me by? The mappool is bad for this build, because on most maps, the nat is hard to wall off. I still do it though. I go for the usual build and make are partial wall off. on most maps, you can build a wall between the hatch and the ramp, forcing lings to run around. 1 or 2 spines and 2 queens (on the ramp and on hold!) plus a few lings hold off most early pushes. The key is scouting. does his nat go down? how much later than yours? does he drone it up? Have OVs in every path he could take from his base, so you see it coming. A defensive bane nest is never a bad idea, I throw it down, when I see, he is not droning up his nat. I used to do this with my first 2 gas on the nat, but I changed it up, I get them at the main now because the nat it is often under pressure. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On December 15 2014 21:58 Wildbuddha wrote: The mappool is bad for this build, because on most maps, the nat is hard to wall off. I still do it though. I go for the usual build and make are partial wall off. on most maps, you can build a wall between the hatch and the ramp, forcing lings to run around. 1 or 2 spines and 2 queens (on the ramp and on hold!) plus a few lings hold off most early pushes. The key is scouting. does his nat go down? how much later than yours? does he drone it up? Have OVs in every path he could take from his base, so you see it coming. A defensive bane nest is never a bad idea, I throw it down, when I see, he is not droning up his nat. I used to do this with my first 2 gas on the nat, but I changed it up, I get them at the main now because the nat it is often under pressure. Not quite. . . You can do gasless 4 queen on any map, besides xel naga. Akalon, and metal are a bit tougher, but do-able | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On December 15 2014 18:54 BrutalPotato wrote: How do you tell if a Protoss is going forge fast expand or nex first? I always see the pylon at the nat but then I don't really know which he's going to build after that. The protoss will choice to do one or the other depending on what they scout on your side. Their opening allows them to do either. | ||
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
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Thefan
France20 Posts
I might have some replays of mutas plays, if top diamond is "ressembling a high level" to you ! Just ask for it ! | ||
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Moosegills
United States558 Posts
On December 17 2014 03:27 Lobotomist wrote: Are muta openers viable in zvz? Judging by the last couple pages of conversation I'd say yes, but i haven't seen one at anything resembling a high level for a long time. Anyone got a good high level muta zvz game video? In my opinion they are not very good, with that being said in a roach/muta scenario it can be quite difficult to establish your third safely vs mutas and in general is "harder" than being the muta player in this scenario. If you are evidence of high level players going muta g2 features both scarlett and violet going mutas. Scarlett is a player in particular that always loves going mutas in zvz so if you are interested in playing a style like that keep on eye on her zvz games | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On December 17 2014 11:26 Moosegills wrote: In my opinion they are not very good, with that being said in a roach/muta scenario it can be quite difficult to establish your third safely vs mutas and in general is "harder" than being the muta player in this scenario. If you are evidence of high level players going muta https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=altuUMlqRUY g2 features both scarlett and violet going mutas. Scarlett is a player in particular that always loves going mutas in zvz so if you are interested in playing a style like that keep on eye on her zvz games Just don't watch her ZvZ games again you  | ||
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Moosegills
United States558 Posts
On December 17 2014 14:02 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Just don't watch her ZvZ games again you Don't??? You mean do!!! | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
haha, she just does her own thing in zvz and zvp. Its like trying to copy MC. only MC can do mc | ||
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Psychonian
United States2322 Posts
edit: of course, i forgot to include the replay http://drop.sc/390409 | ||
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velvex
Germany226 Posts
On December 18 2014 12:34 Psychonian wrote: So I just played a game against this protoss that went for an army of voidrays supported with GW units. While I'm aware that I played like shit, I want to know how exactly I butchered this last engagement so very badly. If someone could take a look that would be much appreciated edit: of course, i forgot to include the replay http://drop.sc/390409 If we really only look at that final engagement, it comes down to your units not attacking during the battle (you ordered a move command that allowed the void rays to shoot down your hydras) and to the lack of a concave (your units beelined into the battle). | ||
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Defenestrator
400 Posts
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Psychonian
United States2322 Posts
On December 19 2014 01:26 velvex wrote: If we really only look at that final engagement, it comes down to your units not attacking during the battle (you ordered a move command that allowed the void rays to shoot down your hydras) and to the lack of a concave (your units beelined into the battle). Thanks for the advice. I was trying to get my hydras and roaches in dso that I could getmore units firing but I guess that didn't work out well. | ||
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