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repaj
4 Posts
On December 09 2014 05:24 Fecalfeast wrote: I haven't watched the replay but I can guarantee the advice will be "work on your injects and creep spread, find a build order and practice it until you get it perfect against an easy AI, keep your money low" Ok - thanks | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
Hi - I've been having trouble getting out of gold league especially against protoss - here is my replay: http://drop.sc/390076Please tell me how I can improve as a zerg player. You need to work on the most basic fundamentals of the game. You have a late natural, late pool, late 1st Queen, late 1st inject, no 2nd and 3rd Queens forever, later injects after that. You get a second gas when you only have 12 workers on minerals in your main and no workers/very few works at your other bases. At 6:30-6:40 in the game you only have 20 workers, etc etc. I'd suggest working on a very specific b/o to just master and ensure you hit all the benchmarks with that build. Even if you open with gas (as you did), you should never have less than around 35 drones by around 7:00 (even that is on the lower end of things). Some basic Zerg benchmarks when opening up with 3 Hatch (which you did) is 42-44 supply at 6:00, 52-58 at 7:00, and 70+ (low end) at 8:00. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On December 09 2014 06:05 11B wrote: You need to work on the most basic fundamentals of the game. You have a late natural, late pool, late 1st Queen, late 1st inject, no 2nd and 3rd Queens forever, later injects after that. You get a second gas when you only have 12 workers on minerals in your main and no workers/very few works at your other bases. At 6:30-6:40 in the game you only have 20 workers, etc etc. I'd suggest working on a very specific b/o to just master and ensure you hit all the benchmarks with that build. Even if you open with gas (as you did), you should never have less than around 35 drones by around 7:00 (even that is on the lower end of things). Some basic Zerg benchmarks when opening up with 3 Hatch (which you did) is 42-44 supply at 6:00, 52-58 at 7:00, and 70+ (low end) at 8:00. Man, if those are the benchmarks I though be hitting, I'm seriously undermacroing... and I thought I was overdoing it a lot. | ||
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Ghaleon109
United States15 Posts
IE:
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capcomist
14 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
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capcomist
14 Posts
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Defenestrator
400 Posts
11B hit it mostly, it seems you don't have a basic build order. I should note that 70 supply at 8:00 is, as far as I know, a gasless benchmark. I think it's a lot harder to hit this benchmark if you go speed-first (which, IMO, is the proper response to cyber before nexus). As far as early macro goes, if you go speed-first, PULL OFF DRONES at 100 gas and mine minerals. you need them. I don't have a good timing on when to go back on gas and add a second geyser, but don't do this before 6:30. You build a second geyser and don't use it for awhile, which is a loss of minerals and more imporatantly, a mining drone. Couple of additional notes: you stop at 52 drones (very bad, you want like 70), you never scout (you have no idea he's going colossus and you go roach/hydra; the game was basically over at the 11-12 min. mark), and your army comp is not very good - roach hydra corruptor was abandoned a looong time ago because it's just not as good as other comps. Roach/hydra/viper works, mutas can work, swarm hosts work (as Snute says, "build units that can actually kill the protoss army"), even ultras can work... but yea stay away from the roach/hydra/corruptor style. | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On December 09 2014 12:14 Defenestrator wrote: 11B hit it mostly, it seems you don't have a basic build order. I should note that 70 supply at 8:00 is, as far as I know, a gasless benchmark. I think it's a lot harder to hit this benchmark if you go speed-first (which, IMO, is the proper response to cyber before nexus). As far as early macro goes, if you go speed-first, PULL OFF DRONES at 100 gas and mine minerals. you need them. I don't have a good timing on when to go back on gas and add a second geyser, but don't do this before 6:30. You build a second geyser and don't use it for awhile, which is a loss of minerals and more imporatantly, a mining drone. Couple of additional notes: you stop at 52 drones (very bad, you want like 70), you never scout (you have no idea he's going colossus and you go roach/hydra; the game was basically over at the 11-12 min. mark), and your army comp is not very good - roach hydra corruptor was abandoned a looong time ago because it's just not as good as other comps. Roach/hydra/viper works, mutas can work, swarm hosts work (as Snute says, "build units that can actually kill the protoss army"), even ultras can work... but yea stay away from the roach/hydra/corruptor style. A good timing can be 5:30. You put back on gas and start an extractor. That's what I do when I do a hydra-ling pressure with safety roach warren. | ||
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KtJ
United States3514 Posts
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repaj
4 Posts
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Frankie Teardrop
United States74 Posts
On December 10 2014 04:33 repaj wrote: I can't seem to get to that many drones by 8mins - i can do 55 drones/64 food by 8:30 but that's the fastest im achieving Then you need to practice your build orders vs very easy AI until you can hit those benchmarks. If you can't get more than 54 drones out by 8:30 when protoss doesn't pressure you at all, then the Protoss isn't even beating you; You are beating yourself. | ||
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Defenestrator
400 Posts
On December 10 2014 05:06 Frankie Teardrop wrote: Then you need to practice your build orders vs very easy AI until you can hit those benchmarks. If you can't get more than 54 drones out by 8:30 when protoss doesn't pressure you at all, then the Protoss isn't even beating you; You are beating yourself. Sorry but I don't agree with this at all. There are plenty of diamond players who do not hit 70 supply by 8 minutes (unharassed), and we are talking to a gold-leaguer here. Repaj your decision-making, lack of scouting, and choice to not make drones past 52 is what killed you in that game. If you improve those aspects, you will be in much better shape in ZvP. However, if you build roach/hydra vs stalker/colossus, you will probably still lose, even if you hit 70 supply at 8 minutes. I'm not saying macro isn't important, but it's a LOT easier to improve things like building the right units instead of sitting there figuring out how to get to 70 supply at 8 minutes with perfect injects against an easy AI (not to mention more fun). | ||
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repaj
4 Posts
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capcomist
14 Posts
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Deckard.666
152 Posts
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11B
United States188 Posts
Then you need to practice your build orders vs very easy AI until you can hit those benchmarks. If you can't get more than 54 drones out by 8:30 when protoss doesn't pressure you at all, then the Protoss isn't even beating you; You are beating yourself. Agreed 100%. I mean, you don't need to have High APM to reach these benchmarks but you DO need to acquire at least some fundamental concepts and mechanics. It's actually VERY important ^^.I can't seem to get to that many drones by 8mins - i can do 55 drones/64 food by 8:30 but that's the fastest im achieving I've made a very basic 2 base opener with speed into your 3rd for you to work on. You don't need crazy APM to do the build. 50-60+ should be fine. You'll see I easily hit all the basic benchmarks I suggested in a few post above. When opening gasless the numbers get even better (unharrassed 86 supply). Replay: http://ggtracker.com/matches/5653504 | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On December 10 2014 06:34 capcomist wrote: Is there any difference between a CC-first and some cheese (probably a 2rax) when scouting a Terran base? I find myself peeking in with a 10-scout, seeing nothing but a depot and not knowing if I should tell what he's doing. On December 10 2014 06:52 Deckard.666 wrote: The amount of workers should tell you whether he's all-in or not i don't agree with sending your drone scout all the way to terran's base unless you're looking to respond to CC first with 3hatch. if you're just scared of proxies then you can send your 10scout along a path to the most logical proxy location(s) and waypoint it back to your natural to build your 15 hatch. the timing works pretty nicely on some maps, for example on catallena you can send it to the exact center and it will get back to your natural at ~300 mins. it's also really not hard to guess where terran will proxy. i strongly recommend practicing a 2rax build as terran against an easy AI just so you can send your SCVs out and see how far they are from your base when you get to 150 minerals. proxy locations are a no-brainer when you've done the build yourself if the drone scout misses the proxy, by then you should have rallied your 2nd overlord to the area in front of your natural because there's no such thing as a 2rax without a bunker in your natural. as long as you have vision of that area you should never be caught completely off-guard by a 2rax. a safety pre-reaper SCV scout comes at a specific time and from a specific angle so normally you should be able to intuit fairly easily whether it's an aggressive SCV or not. make sure that you're watching the minimap vigilantly but yes, the worker count will do it if you insist upon scouting his base. 2nd supply depot at the main ramp with no barracks is also a 100% giveaway | ||
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capcomist
14 Posts
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On December 10 2014 04:33 repaj wrote: I can't seem to get to that many drones by 8mins - i can do 55 drones/64 food by 8:30 but that's the fastest im achieving The best way to train is taking a pro replay/VOD (sc2 cast is a good website to find some vod), look at the production tab. When the pro make the ovie, when he makes drones etc... And try to reproduce vs IA. Take care of what you take, if the Pro make a 3 hatch before pool, he obviously will have more drone, but it's not really safe to do this on ladder, try to take something you will be comfortable to play on ladder. | ||
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