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I'm having a lot of troubles in ZvZ recently, especially against zergs that play muta into swarmhost compositions. How do you counter that going into roaches? If you have a strong +1 RoachSpeed timing attack nlt 9:30 (Lair/Evo @ 6:00) you'll be able to kill their 3rd base very easily while simultaneously forcing them to spine up 4-5 strong at their natural. Start your Hydra Den as you're attacking, saturate your 3rd, and then make non stop Hydra's till you have about 12-15 and attack again (note..they'll have a very low SH count at this point, i.e. less than 3 or 4). As you're moving out start your IP and if the games not finished follow up with Roach/Hydra/Infestor.
If you killed their 3rd early the game is pretty much yours to lose. If you didn't kill their 3rd I'd suggest NOT getting SH yourself. They'll already have a larger number quicker not to mention you'll have to defend against 2 strong mid tier units (Muta/SH). Also, I don't think it's a great idea to transition into Muta either.....reason being when they scout this they'll be able to get a higher muta count and they'll be on better upgrades too.
Imo the best choice at this point would be stay on Roach/Hydra and 3-4 Infestors (counter banes most important). Do keep your Hydra count lower than normal (save gas) and go really heavy on Queens while teching to Hive and then make a decision; Ultra or BL. Ultras and transfuse tank tons of damage while you clean up with the rest of your Ranged Army. Likewise, BL's and transfuse are deadly too, not to mention the Queens will counter Muta/Corruptor, especially if you have a few fungals hit.
You could always stay strictly on Roach/Hydra/Infestor but IMO this is more of a crap shoot. I've seen 140 army supplies of SH/Bane/Muta/Ling with a great engagement ROLL over a 180 Roach/Hydra/Infestor. Although to be fair, on the flip side, when fungals own things up I've seen the exact opposite happen.
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Thanks! Will try that 
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This is not specifically a Zerg question, but where do I find pro replays from recent tournaments?
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Hi,
Quick one about dealing with drops/multi pronged harass as Zerg, whenever I order a unit to be produced I hotkey it at that point, Roaches are 2 Infestors 3 for example, the whole army is generally 1. When you are facing drops in multiple locations this system really struggles. Are there any useful tips for dealing with this or is it just a case of syphoning off the right amount of your main force with mouse and good pre positioning where possible? If I then have to deal with a fight on the main front for example my hotkeys end up working against me as it calls the guys I sent back, back to the front.
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On December 04 2014 03:06 Immersion_ wrote:
Hi,
Quick one about dealing with drops/multi pronged harass as Zerg, whenever I order a unit to be produced I hotkey it at that point, Roaches are 2 Infestors 3 for example, the whole army is generally 1. When you are facing drops in multiple locations this system really struggles. Are there any useful tips for dealing with this or is it just a case of syphoning off the right amount of your main force with mouse and good pre positioning where possible? If I then have to deal with a fight on the main front for example my hotkeys end up working against me as it calls the guys I sent back, back to the front.
I'd say you can just click your entire army in one spot, delete desired amount of units from the control group, and then click back with the rest of your units
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What is the optimal amount of Drones on each base?
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16 in minerals and 3 in each geyser
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On December 04 2014 09:04 KtJ wrote:
What is the optimal amount of Drones on each base?
3/3 on gas, 16 on minerals.
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On December 04 2014 09:04 KtJ wrote:
What is the optimal amount of Drones on each base?
the short answer is 16 minerals 6 gas but as you gain experience typically you will find little shortcuts and ways to overdrone "efficiently". for example in the early midgame i almost always overdrone my main to 17 or 18 because i know i'm going to build tech. if you're going to saturate gases at a base soon you can add 8 drones preemptively for double extractor/6 gas miners. when you take 4th+ bases often you will send two early drones to build gas and then six more shortly after. or just before the point in your build where you're about to add evos you can have two extra on the natural etc
but mathematically you gain the most income from the first two drones per mineral patch, so for all races the typical saturation is 16-18. in certain situations i will drone a base to 24 while waiting for an expo to finish but this is almost always after the game goes weird early in and builds go out the window
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On December 04 2014 11:06 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2014 09:04 KtJ wrote:
What is the optimal amount of Drones on each base? the short answer is 16 minerals 6 gas but as you gain experience typically you will find little shortcuts and ways to overdrone "efficiently". for example in the early midgame i almost always overdrone my main to 17 or 18 because i know i'm going to build tech. if you're going to saturate gases at a base soon you can add 8 drones preemptively for double extractor/6 gas miners. when you take 4th+ bases often you will send two early drones to build gas and then six more shortly after. or just before the point in your build where you're about to add evos you can have two extra on the natural etc but mathematically you gain the most income from the first two drones per mineral patch, so for all races the typical saturation is 16-18. in certain situations i will drone a base to 24 while waiting for an expo to finish but this is almost always after the game goes weird early in and builds go out the window
Thanks.
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United States741 Posts
On December 04 2014 03:06 Immersion_ wrote:
Hi,
Quick one about dealing with drops/multi pronged harass as Zerg, whenever I order a unit to be produced I hotkey it at that point, Roaches are 2 Infestors 3 for example, the whole army is generally 1. When you are facing drops in multiple locations this system really struggles. Are there any useful tips for dealing with this or is it just a case of syphoning off the right amount of your main force with mouse and good pre positioning where possible? If I then have to deal with a fight on the main front for example my hotkeys end up working against me as it calls the guys I sent back, back to the front.
I hit f2 select all, and send my whole army to the front. Then ill manually select part of my army to the harass points. Normally my hatch/larve rally is sent to the usual drop points, when on defense.
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On December 04 2014 22:15 EndOfLineTv wrote:
I hit f2 select all, and send my whole army to the front. Then ill manually select part of my army to the harass points. Normally my hatch/larve rally is sent to the usual drop points, when on defense.
I try and avoid the "select all army" key since that pulls Lings from watchtowers and other key scouting locations. I usually have the bulk of my army on one hotkey anyway, and use shift-click to deselect enough units for one location, ctrl+hotkey to remove them from the group, then send the group elsewhere as needed.
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On December 05 2014 00:33 Asgorath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2014 22:15 EndOfLineTv wrote:
I hit f2 select all, and send my whole army to the front. Then ill manually select part of my army to the harass points. Normally my hatch/larve rally is sent to the usual drop points, when on defense. I try and avoid the "select all army" key since that pulls Lings from watchtowers and other key scouting locations. I usually have the bulk of my army on one hotkey anyway, and use shift-click to deselect enough units for one location, ctrl+hotkey to remove them from the group, then send the group elsewhere as needed.
I saw JD once using a seperate hotkey with a group of lings and 2-4 banes in his main base for drop defense. I starting doing it, it is extremely efffective. As soon as you are thinking about getting offensive, make a 'defense group' of around 12 lings and 2-4 banes. I bind it to 5 (hatches on 4) and then have easy defense for the main. If they do multi drops it makes it that much easier because you only have to worry about the extras.
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On December 01 2014 03:23 EndOfLineTv wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2014 12:47 SorrowSCII wrote:On November 29 2014 08:29 zerge wrote:On November 29 2014 02:51 SorrowSCII wrote:
If he's doing 4-Gate pressure into 7-Gate Robo (very popular at the moment), you should be working on the rocks until about 5:50 or so. It'll be close enough that you can leave one or two lings behind to finish them off. About 6:00, make 10-12 more lings to deny proxy Pylons and get map control. It'll slow his pressure down a little. This build is very, very tricky to hold though, so it takes a lot of practice. Just remember that it'll usually hit about 6:30, or 6:15 if it's the Sangate version.
Making lings at 6 minutes seems a bit late when you want to deny the Pylon, the 12 gate Version can warp in zealots as early as 5:50. I think 5:30 after you put down your 3rd would be a more reasonable timing if you want to stop the push straight away. It really depends on the timing variation. The really early ones, as you say, can hit even earlier, but it depends a lot. The ones that aren't as all-in will hit a bit later generally. Scouting is quite important regardless so you can tell when you need to prepare. Perhaps I shouldn't have given quite so much of a generalization, though. Nobody has any ZvZ help? Sniff? I ended last season at rank 84 gm. For my play style I choose gasless. It is the most consistant for me. This is the build order when you face gas players 15pool 15hatch 14ov 2 queen scouting lings (2-4) 24ov 28 2 Queens 34ov (if you see fast speed all in, (gas, pool, hatch) one spine, bring all 4 queens together by bottom of ramp, and make slow lings) 42 RW + 3 gas + ov(most important) (If you see speed ling all in now (hatch gas pool), pull all 4 queens at bottom of ramp, make slow lings, and then roaches with rw is done) If you see ling bane timing (6:30 - 7 min) Full wall off with evos, pull all 4 queens, make roaches and slow lings) 52 ov, evo, lair, 55 ov, +1 range, and 4th gas. Third when you can take it.
Thanks very much for the post! I'll try this out.
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for all people struggling against mech, i have just found the hardcounter against this style:
step 1: go swarmhost mutalisk while taking the entire map and containing the terran.
step 2: build like 10 vipers and 10 infestors
step 3: abduct an scv from the newest mining base of the terran and pull it behind your swarmhost line
step 4: neural parasite the scv and build a CC
step 5: mass raven
step 6: win
haven't tried it yet but it looks like it could be very succesful against mech.
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On December 09 2014 02:56 Charoisaur wrote:
for all people struggling against mech, i have just found the hardcounter against this style:
step 1: go swarmhost mutalisk while taking the entire map and containing the terran.
step 2: build like 10 vipers and 10 infestors
step 3: abduct an scv from the newest mining base of the terran and pull it behind your swarmhost line
step 4: neural parasite the scv and build a CC
step 5: mass raven
step 6: win
haven't tried it yet but it looks like it could be very succesful against mech.
I see absolutely no flaws at all in this strategy. It's literally perfect
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On December 09 2014 03:00 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2014 02:56 Charoisaur wrote:
for all people struggling against mech, i have just found the hardcounter against this style:
step 1: go swarmhost mutalisk while taking the entire map and containing the terran.
step 2: build like 10 vipers and 10 infestors
step 3: abduct an scv from the newest mining base of the terran and pull it behind your swarmhost line
step 4: neural parasite the scv and build a CC
step 5: mass raven
step 6: win
haven't tried it yet but it looks like it could be very succesful against mech. I see absolutely no flaws at all in this strategy. It's literally perfect
yeah i know. will probably be used in the next GSL if somebody tries mech.
if that happens just congratulate me as the innovator of that style.
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Hi - I've been having trouble getting out of gold league especially against protoss - here is my replay: http://drop.sc/390076
Please tell me how I can improve as a zerg player.
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Canada11355 Posts
On December 09 2014 05:13 repaj wrote:Hi - I've been having trouble getting out of gold league especially against protoss - here is my replay: http://drop.sc/390076Please tell me how I can improve as a zerg player.
I haven't watched the replay but I can guarantee the advice will be "work on your injects and creep spread, find a build order and practice it until you get it perfect against an easy AI, keep your money low"
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EPT
