EPTThe HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 226
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hypnotoad.410
Germany29 Posts
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On December 10 2014 21:24 hypnotoad.410 wrote: how do i react to a ebay block at the natural? You mean when you go hatch first? | ||
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Defenestrator
400 Posts
On December 10 2014 21:24 hypnotoad.410 wrote: how do i react to a ebay block at the natural? Go something like: 15p 16g 16OL once pool pops, queen + 4 lings, secure natural and expand. 2nd queen once first finishes. As far as I know, this doesn't really set you back since he's investing 125 early minerals to block your expo+ an scv not mining, play out the game normally from there. You also get the advantage of slightly quicker speed from the faster pool/gas. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On December 10 2014 21:24 hypnotoad.410 wrote: how do i react to a ebay block at the natural? Hatch first should have an ebay up before the SCV arrives. If he cuts economy, tech and all he has to get an ebay block down, just 16 pool, kill the scv, expand when you can. Or take your third as a natural and your natural a couple of minutes later. I'm not sure what the perfect response is, ebay blcoking a hatch first is sooo terrible... | ||
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fethers
United States19 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On December 13 2014 04:33 fethers wrote: Gold Zerg, and I always do a gassless opening 15p 15h, 4 queens, dbl gas at 5 minute, get 1/1 and get roaches. This used to work really well until the season. I'm losing a lot to ling floods that hit before I have a wall up. Is is the map pool? Has the meta passed me by? Almost certainly the map pool. Also, I might steel that build. | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
Gold Zerg, and I always do a gassless opening 15p 15h, 4 queens, dbl gas at 5 minute, get 1/1 and get roaches. This used to work really well until the season. I'm losing a lot to ling floods that hit before I have a wall up. Is is the map pool? Has the meta passed me by? The map pool doesn't help but the build you've been using, at least imo, is only "safe" on maps you can quickly wall or vs a 1 base all in. Versus a 1 base all in you can just delay your gas and stop drones around 18-20 and just keep massing queens/spines.Anyways, safety vs greed is a fine line in Z vs Z. If you keep dying to ling floods I'd suggest a standard 1st 100g into speed followed by baneling nest and a spine (sim city at expand). Alternatively you can flip Bling nest and speed around. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On December 13 2014 04:33 fethers wrote: Gold Zerg, and I always do a gassless opening 15p 15h, 4 queens, dbl gas at 5 minute, get 1/1 and get roaches. This used to work really well until the season. I'm losing a lot to ling floods that hit before I have a wall up. Is is the map pool? Has the meta passed me by? Vs speed all ins before 6 min. (before wall usually) You much bring down all 4 queens so they are together at the base of your ramp, AND make slow lings to protect them. You will have way more drones then the all-inner. So you will be ahead after the attack, Just counter with the slow lings after to prevent him from droning behind his all in, AND resume your strat. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On December 13 2014 08:12 11B wrote: The map pool doesn't help but the build you've been using, at least imo, is only "safe" on maps you can quickly wall or vs a 1 base all in. Versus a 1 base all in you can just delay your gas and stop drones around 18-20 and just keep massing queens/spines. Anyways, safety vs greed is a fine line in Z vs Z. If you keep dying to ling floods I'd suggest a standard 1st 100g into speed followed by baneling nest and a spine (sim city at expand). Alternatively you can flip Bling nest and speed around. This is also true. You can skip Ling speed, make defensive bane nest - and then pretend you are "gasless" to do the 1 1 roach timing. Works well even at top lvls | ||
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minze
1 Post
Everytime I play vs a mech terran I lose. Every Single Time. He get's 3-4 bases and very strong units and it feels like there is nothing I can do about it. A bio terran I can can harrass with lings or banes or mutas. A mech player I can't harrass. I can't do anything to slow him down. When he finally moves out, my roach hydra, viper army always get's crushed. I'm not even close the majority of the times. Blinding cloud does something, but it's so damn hard to micro the expensive vipers and keep them alive. It has to be an easier way? Some tricks? What is the right army composition to deal with thors, tanks and hellbats? What is the right army composition when he transitions to air? What can I do to slow the terran down? It feels so hopeless not having the slightest clue how to beat mech terran. It's such a physically and mentally exhausting style to play against, and I never have the reward of winning. It's so different from all the other match ups and styles, which I do enjoy. | ||
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Mephtral
Sweden60 Posts
On December 15 2014 02:11 minze wrote: Hey guys, I know this has asked before but it's a common problem. How do you correctly approach a turtling mech terran? Everytime I play vs a mech terran I lose. Every Single Time. He get's 3-4 bases and very strong units and it feels like there is nothing I can do about it. A bio terran I can can harrass with lings or banes or mutas. A mech player I can't harrass. I can't do anything to slow him down. When he finally moves out, my roach hydra, viper army always get's crushed. I'm not even close the majority of the times. Blinding cloud does something, but it's so damn hard to micro the expensive vipers and keep them alive. It has to be an easier way? Some tricks? What is the right army composition to deal with thors, tanks and hellbats? What is the right army composition when he transitions to air? What can I do to slow the terran down? It feels so hopeless not having the slightest clue how to beat mech terran. It's such a physically and mentally exhausting style to play against, and I never have the reward of winning. It's so different from all the other match ups and styles, which I do enjoy. If you cant make roach hydra viper timings work, just go for swarmhosts The answer to thors tanks and hellbats: Swarmhosts The answer to a mech player transitioning to air: Swarmhosts + spores + vipers with some hydras(Or corruptors) How to slow down a meching terran: Swarmhosts It's boring as hell imo.. but it's best answer to mech, just make a ton of swarmhosts, and then you can either keep going swarmhost until he runs out of money, or double spire upgrades and do a huge muta switch if he doesn't make enough turrets/anti air. | ||
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
but just go into broodlords right after you have those 15 swarm hosts? it seems decent on paper and I've been having quite a lot of success with it, but I'm just diamond and was wondering if it's also okay later on | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On December 15 2014 02:58 Alchemik wrote: hm, was wondering - is it still "okay" to do the SH build from Blade's overview (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Blade%27s_Overview_of_HotS_ZvZ first one here) but just go into broodlords right after you have those 15 swarm hosts? it seems decent on paper and I've been having quite a lot of success with it, but I'm just diamond and was wondering if it's also okay later on I think the recently popular Baneling Roach push hits straight through the build nowadays, on the other hand, I've seen plenty of players still do it. It's up for grabs, I suppose! | ||
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
On December 15 2014 04:08 SC2Toastie wrote: I think the recently popular Baneling Roach push hits straight through the build nowadays, on the other hand, I've seen plenty of players still do it. It's up for grabs, I suppose! hm? what is that baneling/roach push? | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On December 15 2014 02:32 Mephtral wrote: If you cant make roach hydra viper timings work, just go for swarmhosts The answer to thors tanks and hellbats: Swarmhosts The answer to a mech player transitioning to air: Swarmhosts + spores + vipers with some hydras(Or corruptors) How to slow down a meching terran: Swarmhosts It's boring as hell imo.. but it's best answer to mech, just make a ton of swarmhosts, and then you can either keep going swarmhost until he runs out of money, or double spire upgrades and do a huge muta switch if he doesn't make enough turrets/anti air. i would add to this that infestors are very good if terran successfully stalemates into a mass air army. it depends on your control, but if used correctly fungals and infested terrans can both be great tools for threatening his ravens and not allowing him to just fly over you with 4000 PDD forcing you into an impossible engagement the two conditions for infestors being any good are basically 1) opponent has large air army and 2) late enough in game that you can spend gas on them without dying to a push | ||
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TelecoM
United States10673 Posts
On December 15 2014 04:08 SC2Toastie wrote: I think the recently popular Baneling Roach push hits straight through the build nowadays, on the other hand, I've seen plenty of players still do it. It's up for grabs, I suppose! lol, why do people post things like this when it isn't even valid advice or input? There is no recent popular roach / bling timing at the moment, if you can hit a roach / baneling timing, your opponent either A) Has terrible macro, B) playing at a level where build orders don't matter. C) All of the above and some. If your opponent goes mutalisks, then what, you just curl up in a ball and click surrender? | ||
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Moosegills
United States558 Posts
On December 15 2014 02:58 Alchemik wrote: hm, was wondering - is it still "okay" to do the SH build from Blade's overview (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Blade%27s_Overview_of_HotS_ZvZ first one here) but just go into broodlords right after you have those 15 swarm hosts? it seems decent on paper and I've been having quite a lot of success with it, but I'm just diamond and was wondering if it's also okay later on Swarm hosts can still work rarely given the right situation and proper use, but generally I would say on most standard maps its not very good. If you like opening muta and it is muta vs roach I recommend going into quick brood lords instead | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
There is no recent popular roach / bling timing at the moment, if you can hit a roach / baneling timing, your opponent either A) Has terrible macro, B) playing at a level where build orders don't matter. C) All of the above and some. Disagree here. I wasn't the person who said a single word about Roach/Bling......and to be honest, I don't know if "timing" is the right word to be fair. I watch a lot of SC2 and I see players like Snute, TLO, Nerchio, Kane, Patrino, and I'm pretty sure I remember Sacsri too..........all transitioning into a large Roach/Bane unit comp. Now this obviously isn't done "every" game but I've seen it literally dozens of times in the past 1-6 months by a wide variety of players. I have no idea how or if this is even applicable to the question it was in response too (Z vs Z sh usage) but nonetheless, I've seen it pretty frequently (transition into that composition for most of their units....with some hydra and viper usually added later too). | ||
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
On December 15 2014 14:54 Moosegills wrote: Swarm hosts can still work rarely given the right situation and proper use, but generally I would say on most standard maps its not very good. If you like opening muta and it is muta vs roach I recommend going into quick brood lords instead alright... thanks! and what are the things that this Swarm Host style dies to now? multi-pronged harassment? big pushes before sufficient number of SH? | ||
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Moosegills
United States558 Posts
On December 15 2014 16:07 Alchemik wrote: alright... thanks! and what are the things that this Swarm Host style dies to now? multi-pronged harassment? big pushes before sufficient number of SH? Just the broodlord change (they can't be pulled). "mass broodlord" will beat "mass sh" | ||
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