EPTThe HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 216
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
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SorrowShine
698 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On November 03 2014 09:59 SorrowShine wrote: Plat Zerg here. If I block Toss natural with Hatchery with a 9 Scout Drone what should be the follow up: 15H15P or 14P16H? Depends on what the Protoss is doing. If he is FFE, you risk getting counter cannoned if you go hatch first, so pool first into queen/lings to secure the natural is a lot safer. If he is doing a gate expand, the hatch first will work just fine; you just have to look out for the inevitable 3ish zealot/MSC poke that usually comes after clearing the proxy hatch. | ||
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SorrowShine
698 Posts
On November 03 2014 10:09 SC2John wrote: Depends on what the Protoss is doing. If he is FFE, you risk getting counter cannoned if you go hatch first, so pool first into queen/lings to secure the natural is a lot safer. If he is doing a gate expand, the hatch first will work just fine; you just have to look out for the inevitable 3ish zealot/MSC poke that usually comes after clearing the proxy hatch. There are 3 variations: 1. Toss was going for Nexus first. After the block i feel like i still can go for Hatch first 2. Toss FFE. Still blocking and then i would go for Pool first 3. if Gateway expand - no block at all. 3 hatches before pool at home does it sound about right?? | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On November 03 2014 10:23 SorrowShine wrote: There are 3 variations: 1. Toss was going for Nexus first. After the block i feel like i still can go for Hatch first 2. Toss FFE. Still blocking and then i would go for Pool first 3. if Gateway expand - no block at all. 3 hatches before pool at home does it sound about right?? Yeah, it sounds like you've already got it all figured out. Don't know why you're asking questions about it, might as well be answering someone else with that comment :p. Though.......I don't think it's a great idea to go hatch first versus nexus first unless the Protoss literally doesn't see it until 17 supply somehow. If they see it early and react immediately, they still get a normally timed forge. So, just gotta be careful of that. | ||
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KtJ
United States3514 Posts
in all matchups if its different | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
When should i get my lair? Standards hover in the range below (at least for me ^): - 7:00-30 vs Protoss. Allows Roach speed to finish, or access to Hydra or SH vs 10:30-11:00 pushes or denying 3rds. You'll need this Lair timing for access to Viper, Muta, and Corruptor timings too. - 7:50 - 8:20 vs Terran. This gets you Bling Speed/Muta available before +1/1 timing push. Only time I ever feel the need to start my Lair earlier in this MU is versus aggressive Banshee play for a quicker Muta/Oversser transition. - Versus Zerg it's all over the place depending on you and your opponents aggression/greed. | ||
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KtJ
United States3514 Posts
On November 04 2014 03:13 11B wrote: Standards hover in the range below (at least for me ^): - 7:00-30 vs Protoss. Allows Roach speed to finish, or access to Hydra or SH vs 10:30-11:00 pushes or denying 3rds. You'll need this Lair timing for access to Viper, Muta, and Corruptor timings too. - 7:50 - 8:20 vs Terran. This gets you Bling Speed/Muta available before +1/1 timing push. Only time I ever feel the need to start my Lair earlier in this MU is versus aggressive Banshee play for a quicker Muta/Oversser transition. - Versus Zerg it's all over the place depending on you and your opponents aggression/greed. very helpful thanks! | ||
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KtJ
United States3514 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On November 04 2014 03:23 KtJ wrote: What are the standard compositons for all match-ups? Usually ZvZ is either roach roach roach or some kind of roach/hydra/(infestor) army. ZvT is based around ling/bane/muta, although some players are experimenting with different styles nowadays (Snute's $H style), so look here or here if you want to play a roach-based style of play. ZvP is either aggressive Roach/Hydra/Viper styles (but that kinda sucks) or styles like that, or if you want to play late-game you either have to play muta/corruptor or one of the numerous variations of $H style of ZvP that exists. edit : also for ZvP have a look at this, it doesn't answer your question but it's fucking useful | ||
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KtJ
United States3514 Posts
On November 04 2014 03:37 OtherWorld wrote: Usually ZvZ is either roach roach roach or some kind of roach/hydra/(infestor) army. ZvT is based around ling/bane/muta, although some players are experimenting with different styles nowadays (Snute's $H style), so look here or here if you want to play a roach-based style of play. ZvP is either aggressive Roach/Hydra/Viper styles (but that kinda sucks) or styles like that, or if you want to play late-game you either have to play muta/corruptor or one of the numerous variations of $H style of ZvP that exists. edit : also for ZvP have a look at this, it doesn't answer your question but it's fucking useful thanks | ||
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
when it comes to ZvT, I'd also recommend this guide: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/15007261155 | ||
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KtJ
United States3514 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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11B
United States188 Posts
Post a replay please. And Imo Corruptors and Vipers are both fine choices. Also, Colossus take forever to build while you're only limitation as Zerg will be income. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
http://drop.sc/388624 Oh ya, and I attack just before my +2 ups finish like an idiot | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On November 04 2014 14:04 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Alright guys, my mentality is slightly more stable again. I just have one question. When I'm going roach/hydra against protoss, what's the optimal way to deal with colossus. This is a basic question I know but whenever a protoss gets colossus against me no matter what I seem to try I lose. corruptors are trash, vipers don't work, and im just not good enough to flank them... so I'm kind of boned as soon as he gets any Agreed, a replay would do a world of good. In general, vipers > corruptors. Corruptors are more of a timing/emergency defense type of unit, whereas vipers tend to give you smoother transitions to the late game. If you're having trouble with colossus, I highly recommend the roach/hydra/viper timing, which Blade lays out pretty well in his older guide (Second Overview of HotS Zerg). In general, as long as you're keeping up on upgrades and you can get a nice concave, roach/hydra/viper can easily take on a blink/colossus army. And it's not hard to execute, that part is in your head. EDIT: I see you just posted one. I'll get to it in the morning, it's pretty late here. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On November 04 2014 14:52 SC2John wrote: Agreed, a replay would do a world of good. In general, vipers > corruptors. Corruptors are more of a timing/emergency defense type of unit, whereas vipers tend to give you smoother transitions to the late game. If you're having trouble with colossus, I highly recommend the roach/hydra/viper timing, which Blade lays out pretty well in his older guide (Second Overview of HotS Zerg). In general, as long as you're keeping up on upgrades and you can get a nice concave, roach/hydra/viper can easily take on a blink/colossus army. And it's not hard to execute, that part is in your head. EDIT: I see you just posted one. I'll get to it in the morning, it's pretty late here. Ya, I still have a complete distaste for builds and it is completely in my head. I have this weird aversion to actually thinking... sounds crazy but I'm beginning to realize I have a horrible problem of trying to use as little brainpower as possible. It's fits in with my horrible laziness | ||
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Tzyx
Northern Ireland281 Posts
On November 04 2014 15:01 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Ya, I still have a complete distaste for builds and it is completely in my head. I have this weird aversion to actually thinking... sounds crazy but I'm beginning to realize I have a horrible problem of trying to use as little brainpower as possible. It's fits in with my horrible laziness I have massive problems with collosus. I tried all the things to fix it. But so far, the most productive has been to write ADD VIPERS on a sticky note along the top of my monitor. I add them every time i expect/see collosus, and although i lose horribly mostly still, i feel like just having them in my army every game is helping me practice with them. I started out thinking urgh I'm terrible with these (and i still am) but at least now i can drag the odd collosus in. I think it's just one of those things that you need to keep doing until you got the hang of it. Feels like a moral victory every time i kill one of those god damn tripods lol. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On November 04 2014 15:01 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Ya, I still have a complete distaste for builds and it is completely in my head. I have this weird aversion to actually thinking... sounds crazy but I'm beginning to realize I have a horrible problem of trying to use as little brainpower as possible. It's fits in with my horrible laziness thats how the majority of semicasual/amateur players at mid levels of play feel, dude. we all watch pro games and compare ourselves to an impossible standard where we expect to be executing things above our own heads. one of the reasons you might not "want to think" is because you're too focused on doing everything fastfastfast, spamming move commands etc. while not really knowing what your strategy is. it's fine to slow down your game for the sake of actually making decisions, in fact in most cases for most player it's probably much better to play that way its tough to try to imitate builds, but you can take it one step at a time and make little connections that help you remember things, like taking your gas at the natural when you have exactly x drones mining there or timing things as associations with each other like lair->baneling nest->start baneling speed when lair finishes for example. you dont have to connect the whole jigsaw all at once. one thing that helped me a LOT when i was a ~plat zerg was forcing myself to look at my gas all the time, gas income, gas bank, tech, tech plans, etc. if you have gas, what is it for? which first, 2/2 upgrades or spire? etc e tc etc (i know im giving zvt examples but im just speaking generally). setting aside workers and production, a "build" is really just a sequence of gas investments | ||
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