EPTThe HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 168
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hunterxx
United States15 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
What would you do against a Terran who opens with hellbat drops and then expands with a PF at his natural? On Waystation. Seems to me the natural answer would be to play greedy and just defend with spore/spine/queen at the mineral lines. Then deny 3rds. Thoughts? | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On May 16 2014 00:34 DinoMight wrote: Hey all, What would you do against a Terran who opens with hellbat drops and then expands with a PF at his natural? On Waystation. Seems to me the natural answer would be to play greedy and just defend with spore/spine/queen at the mineral lines. Then deny 3rds. Thoughts? I think you might be joking but sorry if you are not.. Defend with roaches/static or both if it's very heavy. go for a 1-1 roach timing to prevent the third from being taken and from there expand like a madman (you do this timing off 3 bases) and go for either roach hydra viper or SH muta with a small group of roaches (if he mechs). | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On May 16 2014 00:42 Karpfen wrote: I think you might be joking but sorry if you are not.. Defend with roaches/static or both if it's very heavy. go for a 1-1 roach timing to prevent the third from being taken and from there expand like a madman (you do this timing off 3 bases) and go for either roach hydra viper or SH muta with a small group of roaches (if he mechs). Lol I am not joking. Just preparing for a team league type game where I know the kid opens like this... you'd be amazed what you find in Diamond  TY. | ||
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6xFPCs
United States412 Posts
On May 16 2014 00:34 DinoMight wrote: Hey all, What would you do against a Terran who opens with hellbat drops and then expands with a PF at his natural? On Waystation. Seems to me the natural answer would be to play greedy and just defend with spore/spine/queen at the mineral lines. Then deny 3rds. Thoughts? Hellbat drops means you will likely want a few roaches, or at least a roach warren built, just in case he goes heavy on hellbats, though of course fewer roaches is better. If he's always using hellbat drops (i.e., he's probably good at hellbat drop micro), I would grab a few roaches; there's nothing worse than sustained hellbat harass that keeps roasting lings and denying mining because he drops between mineral patches, etc. I would also suggest a spore in each mineral line to put a timer on him. Just bear in mind that the hellbats will auto-target the spore, which can be a problem for nearby drones (this is in contrast to an injecting queen on the far side of the hatch, whose attacks will naturally draw the hellbats' attention and require the terran to manually target drones, e.g., by hold position). PF at natural automatically means you should be greedy because it's very hard to break. The PF means he loses a lot of econ and delays his tech (no mules + 150 gas). This will delay stim/upgrades/tanks/mines/etc. Waystation close spawns might be problematic like this, but close spawns are always terran-favored so just be careful about how greedy you are. | ||
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xxjcdentonxx
Canada163 Posts
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On May 17 2014 08:05 xxjcdentonxx wrote: Are there any recent premier tournament matches featuring ZvT Mech? Check out last nights GSL. Supernova meched many of his zvt's | ||
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LyleGately
United States14 Posts
http://ggtracker.com/matches/5050173 I tried switching to roaches in this game and it failed pretty horribly. 8800 resources lost to get the one PF. Other things also went horribly wrong in this game, but it's not the first time I've lost to this. Should I have gone to swarm hosts and then deal with drops with muta/ling? Somewhat related, if I see Terran going heavy marauder/mine, should I stick with muta/ling/bling or is there a better comp? | ||
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Waise
3165 Posts
On May 19 2014 09:01 LyleGately wrote: I feel silly asking this, but what is the best way to respond to a Terran that PFs/turrets every base but his main? http://ggtracker.com/matches/5050173 I tried switching to roaches in this game and it failed pretty horribly. 8800 resources lost to get the one PF. Other things also went horribly wrong in this game, but it's not the first time I've lost to this. Should I have gone to swarm hosts and then deal with drops with muta/ling? Somewhat related, if I see Terran going heavy marauder/mine, should I stick with muta/ling/bling or is there a better comp? take the map and deny bases (as they're going up, not when they're already bunkered and PFed), be active with your units to make sure he doesn't ninja 5 bases at once and PF them all before you do anything about it. you don't "need" to kill PFs just because they're there. you can still just expand, keep your economy flowing and enjoy the economic advantage you'll have due to his lack of mules and need for SCVs to keep his mineral income going scout to make sure he's not going into ravens (which is common in mid leagues when terrans do that crap, even out of bio) and just look for trades. deny the third, deny the fourth, trade units because he won't have the massive triple orbital economy to keep farting out marines if you keep killing them. just be super active and keep your map vision very high, spread lots of creep, creep onto his 4th-5th base locations, etc. honestly all you did was transition into roaches vs bio, which is probably why you lost, because that doesn't really make sense. if you can't crack him and he's going up to 4-5 base and your bank is getting huge, that's when i would start considering transitioning on into the big hive tech deathball with infestors, ultras, brood lords and queens, and even vipers if you want since blinding cloud works on PFs. if you haven't let him get 6 free PFs all over the map, your hive tech army should be enough to put a lot of pressure on him, if not kill him outright | ||
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Dynamitekid
United States55 Posts
1) Roach + Hydra + Corrupters or 2) Roach + Hydra + Vipers | ||
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6xFPCs
United States412 Posts
On May 19 2014 12:38 Dynamitekid wrote: Whats the better army versus Protoss's Stalker + Sentry + Colossus 1) Roach + Hydra + Corrupters or 2) Roach + Hydra + Vipers viper version is better by far. the reason why you see the corruptor version is that vipers might not be ready in time; if you feel like your opponent is gearing up for a big push on two bases, it is generally accepted that you will not have time to get vipers out. i suppose it's also possible that you use corruptors for a 2-2 roach-hydra-corruptor timing, as well? either way, the point is that you can get to corruptors faster than you can get to vipers (with enough energy for abduct). | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On May 19 2014 12:47 6xFPCs wrote: viper version is better by far. the reason why you see the corruptor version is that vipers might not be ready in time; if you feel like your opponent is gearing up for a big push on two bases, it is generally accepted that you will not have time to get vipers out. i suppose it's also possible that you use corruptors for a 2-2 roach-hydra-corruptor timing, as well? either way, the point is that you can get to corruptors faster than you can get to vipers (with enough energy for abduct). Pretty much this. Corruptors don't serve much of a function for long-term transitioning and only do very well as 1) an emergency response or 2) a timing-oriented unit. Otherwise, you snipe the collosi and you're just left with a bunch of shitty flying units that are just taking up money and supply. | ||
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mooseman1710
United States153 Posts
Taking the whole map seems pointless because I cant ever kill the raven Viking ball with any combination of units | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On May 19 2014 12:38 Dynamitekid wrote: Whats the better army versus Protoss's Stalker + Sentry + Colossus 1) Roach + Hydra + Corrupters or 2) Roach + Hydra + Vipers I know Dark used some nice corrupter hydra roach timings which were really strong in the current meta (last GSL I think). However, as the above posters have mentioned it doesn't transition nicely, if you do not overwhelm them you tend to get countered and die. The only really follow up is a broodlord timing if you do some weird even trade. But it is often very iffy and normally doesn't work. | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On May 19 2014 13:45 mooseman1710 wrote: So if i scout a Terran going mech and i scout him already going Viking raven off of three bases and never pushes out? whats the best way to punish that. Should i just push with roaches? I feel like going swarm host muta gives him enough time to get the unbeatable raven Viking ball. And mutas aren't that useful when he does not push out so i cant counter attack at all. Taking the whole map seems pointless because I cant ever kill the raven Viking ball with any combination of units Roaches are an option but to be honest if they are playing this style they probably know how to defend a roach push. You can either attempt to go for a roach/hydra/viper timing (risky) or take mass bases and go for BIG tech switches. The latter is my personal way of dealing with it. Take mass bases mass drones and build a SICK bank. Do not aim for a catch all army, but go for mass muta, mass ultra, mass swarm host. Try to catch his army in a lop sided composition. Also do not underrate diving mutalisks into raven/viking balls and making their seeker missiles kill their own units. The remax power of zerg is what you need to exploit. | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On May 19 2014 14:34 ThePastor wrote: Roaches are an option but to be honest if they are playing this style they probably know how to defend a roach push. You can either attempt to go for a roach/hydra/viper timing (risky) or take mass bases and go for BIG tech switches. The latter is my personal way of dealing with it. Take mass bases mass drones and build a SICK bank. Do not aim for a catch all army, but go for mass muta, mass ultra, mass swarm host. Try to catch his army in a lop sided composition. Also do not underrate diving mutalisks into raven/viking balls and making their seeker missiles kill their own units. The remax power of zerg is what you need to exploit. I am sorry but the mutalisk-missile part is completely wrong. No one is going to seeker your damn mutas because no one is that crazy. They're just going to put down some pdds and have a couple of viking volleys thrown at you. There is no way you can engage that with mutas. Hoping for him to seeker your is like hoping to hold a baneling bust because the zerg will press X far away from you. | ||
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sicco_
Germany14 Posts
Usually I open with hatch – pool – gas. What is the best way to deal with this? Defend with queens and take a fast third? Go for roaches? Fast muta? I tried to roach/bane bust with bane und roach speed, but it is way too late. I feel like I’m behind the whole time in every way. League: dia | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On May 19 2014 19:05 Karpfen wrote: I am sorry but the mutalisk-missile part is completely wrong. No one is going to seeker your damn mutas because no one is that crazy. They're just going to put down some pdds and have a couple of viking volleys thrown at you. There is no way you can engage that with mutas. Hoping for him to seeker your is like hoping to hold a baneling bust because the zerg will press X far away from you. I am not suggesting that you fly directly at the army. You duck in and out bating pdd's picking stuff off. However, if they try to seeker (they often seeker like 5 mutas not one) you can send the clump of seekerd mutas in and you will trade very effectively. I did not say that it is the key part of the engagement, but if they do throw seeker missiles at you do not be scared to dive them. I have seen pro's do it as well, and it has works for me at masters level on Korea. (I cannot recall who it was off the top of my head, but will try to find out) | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On May 20 2014 04:11 sicco_ wrote: I really have problems with a 2 reaper + 2 hellion opening followed by a fast 3rd cc. Usually I open with hatch – pool – gas. What is the best way to deal with this? Defend with queens and take a fast third? Go for roaches? Fast muta? I tried to roach/bane bust with bane und roach speed, but it is way too late. I feel like I’m behind the whole time in every way. League: dia If the idea is to all in with roach/bane you need to go without speed. Otherwise you just defend with queens/lings while droning and expanding. Remember your queens can take a severe beating before they die. When the hellion/reaper starts getting overly aggressive fake commit with your lings to push him back. + Show Spoiler + Effort recently played against flash and beat him in the CJ vs KT play off. Effort's defense against Flash's hellion/reaper was amazing, literally almost perfect control. If you watch this carefully you will see how he deals with this aggression. Pay particular attention to how he drones up while defending. Then see how he transitions into a win in the mid game. Effort vs Flash | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On May 20 2014 04:39 ThePastor wrote: I am not suggesting that you fly directly at the army. You duck in and out bating pdd's picking stuff off. However, if they try to seeker (they often seeker like 5 mutas not one) you can send the clump of seekerd mutas in and you will trade very effectively. I did not say that it is the key part of the engagement, but if they do throw seeker missiles at you do not be scared to dive them. I have seen pro's do it as well, and it has works for me at masters level on Korea. (I cannot recall who it was off the top of my head, but will try to find out) Suiciding mutas into ravens/vikings is always bad. When you play against mass ravens, the goal of the mutas should be to bait out as much energy as possible from the ravens constantly so that they never sit at 200/200 energy and have unlimited potential to kill your army. Dive-bombing into the sky terran ball is usually a decent way to force out PDDs and/or a couple of seeker missiles (which you can dodge if you pull the mutas back immediately), but you should never be intentionally suiciding your pack of mutas into seeker missiles. The key thing to baiting out all this energy is that it makes your ground force of roaches or SH a lot more powerful because the ravens won't have the energy to just fly over and seeker missile everything and lol. It also reduces the chances of any kinds of cute auto-turret harass. | ||
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